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View Full Version : Army Ďvacuumí missile hits Taliban [UK Army]



megimoo
06-21-2008, 08:48 PM
" thermobaric weapons: Aluminum Dust fuel/air missiles !"

British forces in Afghanistan have used one of the world’s most deadly and controversial missiles to fight the Taliban.

Apache attack helicopters have fired the thermobaric weapons against fighters in buildings and caves, to create a pressure wave which sucks the air out of victims, shreds their internal organs and crushes their bodies.

The Ministry of Defence (MoD) has admitted to the use of the weapons, condemned by human rights groups as “brutal”, on several occasions, including against a cave complex.

The use of the Hellfire AGM-114N weapons has been deemed so successful they will now be fired from RAF Reaper unmanned drones controlled by “pilots” at Creech air force base in Nevada, an MoD spokesman added.

Thermobaric weapons, or vacuum bombs, were first combat-tested by the Soviet Union in Afghanistan in the 1980s and their use by Russia against civilians in Chechnya in the 1990s was condemned worldwide.

The secret decision to buy the Hellfire AGM-114N missiles was made earlier this year following problems attacking Taliban fortified positions.

British Apache pilots complained that standard Hellfire antitank missiles were going straight through buildings and out of the other side. Even when they did explode, there were limited casualties among the Taliban inside, particularly when a building contained a number of rooms.

American Apache pilots overcame the problem in Iraq with the thermobaric Hellfire.

The weapons are so controversial that MoD weapons and legal experts spent 18 months debating whether British troops could use them without breaking international law.

Eventually, they decided to get round the ethical problems by redefining the weapons.

“We no longer accept the term thermobaric [for the AGM-114N] as there is no internationally agreed definition,” said an MoD spokesman. “We call it an enhanced blast weapon.”

The redefinition has allowed British forces to use the weapons legally, but is undermined by the publicity of their manufacturer, Lockheed Martin, which markets them as thermobaric.

When the American military bought them in 2005, President George W Bush said: “There are going to be some awfully surprised terrorists when the thermobaric Hellfire comes knocking.”

Despite the Bush rhetoric, it is unlikely anyone targeted by the missile would know much about it. The laser-guided missile has a warhead packed with fluorinated aluminium powder surrounding a small charge.

When it hits the target, the charge disperses the aluminium powder throughout the target building. The cloud then ignites, causing a massive secondary blast that tears throughout any enclosed space.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article4187835.ece

asdf2231
06-21-2008, 11:29 PM
Kewl!

The things sound pretty efficient.

Nubs
06-22-2008, 08:39 AM
It's not the vacuum that does the damage, it's the overpressure.

In an enclosed space these warheads create over 100 psi overpressure.

To put in context, remember the nuclear bomb films where buildings are flying apart. That was about 12 psi overpressure.

megimoo
06-22-2008, 09:43 AM
It's not the vacuum that does the damage, it's the overpressure.

In an enclosed space these warheads create over 100 psi overpressure.

To put in context, remember the nuclear bomb films where buildings are flying apart. That was about 12 psi overpressure.When the aluminum dust first ignites it sucks out the air from any enclosed spaces to the blast and after the blast the expanding shock waves does the damage !Something like sucking the air out of a sealed container to make it fill faster !

megimoo
06-22-2008, 01:42 PM
Thermobaric weapons

In confined spaces, transition to full detonation is not required for enhanced blast, if the solid fuel is ignited early in the dispersion process. A series of reflective shock waves generated by the detonation mixes the hot detonation gasses with metal particles and compresses the metal particles at the same time. These actions provide the chemical kinetic support to maintain a hot environment, causing more metal to ignite and burn. This late time metal combustion process produces a significant pressure rise over a longer time duration (10–50 msec). This is a phase generally referred to as after burning or late-time impulse which can occur outside of where the detonation occurred, resulting in more widespread damage.[2] This is known as an aerobic reaction and draws in all of the unburnt fuel and atmospheric air, and creates a vacuum in the detonation environment.

Slow motion of a fuel-air explosion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9xCgNdZPKk
Air dropped liquid fuel/air bomb !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGVT4OTm31E&NR=1

But the BLU-118/B 2,000-pound bunker-busting bombshell takes the fuel-air bomb to the next level.

First, the warhead is encased in a 2,000-pound bunker-busting bombshell. Rather than exploding over a widespread area above ground, the BLU-118/B penetrates deep into the ground, through concrete barriers, and then ignites everything inside. "The bomb can be delivered by an F-15 or a B-52 or even a B-2. It's a free-falling smart bomb, guided by a laser either from another plane or from the ground and either dropped on top of a cave or in its mouth, depending on the surrounding territory--ideally you want to drop it at the mouth of the cave."

THE DAISY CUTTER BOMB
Largest Conventional Bomb in Existence...(there is nothing conventional about this one !)

(She is making this into an Anti Personel device its not .It was designed to clear a helecopter landing pad in the thick jungle not to kill enemy troops !)

It is big and destructive. To be exact, the Daisy Cutter bomb weighs in at 15,000 pounds and destroys anything in a 600-yard radius. First used during the Vietnam War, these huge bombs have since been employed in the Gulf War and most recently in Afghanistan. Although the “Daisy Cutter” bomb is not a nuclear weapon, its use in battle has caused controversy because of its terrifying and utterly destructive nature.

AWESOME SIZE AND TERRIFYING POWER
The BLU-82B or “Daisy Cutter” is the largest conventional bomb in existence and is 17 feet long and 5 feet in diameter, about the size of a Volkswagen Beetle but much heavier. It contains 12,600 pounds of GX slurry (ammonium nitrate, aluminum powder, and polystyrene), and is so bulky that it cannot even be launched in a conventional method. To put that in context, the ammonium nitrate in just one Daisy Cutter bomb is about six times the amount used in the bombing of the federal building in Oklahoma City. Although the blast from this bomb is extremely lethal, it still has less than a thousandth the destructive power of the atomic bomb used on Hiroshima.

Because of the cumbersome size of the Daisy Cutter and its deadly results, it must be uniquely deployed and detonated. It is launched on a delivery trolley and forced out the back of a C-130 cargo plane. The plane itself must be at least 6,000 feet off the ground to avoid the bomb’s massive shock wave. Once clear of the plane, the Daisy Cutter releases its own parachute. Attached to one end of the bomb is a three-foot long conical probe. When this probe touches the ground the bomb is detonated. Because the bomb is detonated before the majority of it hits the ground basically no crater results. However, the bomb still inflicts heavy damage, generating pressures in excess of 1,000 pounds per square inch near the point of impact, and the shock waves can be felt miles away.

LogansPapa
06-22-2008, 03:01 PM
Don't care if it's caused by the sweat off a brama's balls: non-issue. It kills - that's all that's important.:cool:

megimoo
06-22-2008, 03:10 PM
Don't care if it's caused by the sweat off a brama's balls: non-issue. It kills - that's all that's important.:cool:That is the idea in most war situations I am aware of.BTW is brama a personal friend ?

biccat
06-22-2008, 07:21 PM
The Ministry of Defence (MoD) has admitted to the use of the weapons, condemned by human rights groups as ďbrutalĒ, on several occasions, including against a cave complex.
The weapon is effective at killing enemies, of course "human rights" groups are going to oppose its use.

LogansPapa
06-22-2008, 08:53 PM
The weapon is effective at killing enemies, of course "human rights" groups are going to oppose its use.


That's where bragging about it crosses the line into mistake.

megimoo
06-22-2008, 09:12 PM
That's where bragging about it crosses the line into mistake.If it saves American or Brit lives use it .The 'bragging' takes the form of a healthy curiosity on how it works not a gloating over dead enemies !

LogansPapa
06-22-2008, 10:20 PM
If it saves American or Brit lives use it .The 'bragging' takes the form of a healthy curiosity on how it works not a gloating over dead enemies !

Like embedding reporters in combat operations - it's not bright. Just kill the rodents and show us how you accomplished it - a year from now, on YouTube. Our technology is allowing us to strike from above in execution mode or supporting hidden human resources (SEAL teams and such), becoming more efficient (albeit more expensive, monetarily), using less personnel and we need to follow the Israeli's example once again concerning security.

megimoo
06-22-2008, 10:35 PM
Like embedding reporters in combat operations - it's not bright. Just kill the rodents and show us how you accomplished it - a year from now, on YouTube. Our technology is allowing us to strike from above in execution mode or supporting hidden human resources (SEAL teams and such), becoming more efficient (albeit more expensive, monetarily), using less personnel and we need to follow the Israeli's example once again concerning security.What a rambling load of wollygog that was.Have you been 'hitting' the 'sauce'again ?

LogansPapa
06-22-2008, 10:40 PM
What a rambling load of wollygog that was.Have you been 'hitting' the 'sauce'again ?

So, by that childish retort - you're saying you don't agree with the Israeli's non-publicity policy?:confused:

megimoo
06-22-2008, 11:04 PM
So, by that childish retort - you're saying you don't agree with the Israeli's non-publicity policy?:confused:Is that the 'null' case ?

jinxmchue
06-22-2008, 11:24 PM
The Ministry of Defence (MoD) has admitted to the use of the weapons, condemned by human rights groups as “brutal”, on several occasions, including against a cave complex.

Meanwhile, having your head slowly hacked off with a knife is perfectly humane.

Nubs
06-22-2008, 11:25 PM
So, by that childish retort - you're saying you don't agree with the Israeli's non-publicity policy?:confused:


For shit's sake. Here you go AGAIN. We were trying to have a discussion on the workings of military weaponry and, like a trained monkey, you jump in and throw your poo against the wall. Now just go back into the corner and play with yourself, like all the other monkies.

LogansPapa
06-23-2008, 12:26 AM
For shit's sake. Here you go AGAIN. We were trying to have a discussion on the workings of military weaponry and, like a trained monkey, you jump in and throw your poo against the wall. Now just go back into the corner and play with yourself, like all the other monkies.

But I need to share poo. :(

dixierat
06-23-2008, 07:41 AM
Like embedding reporters in combat operations - it's not bright. Just kill the rodents and show us how you accomplished it - a year from now, on YouTube. Our technology is allowing us to strike from above in execution mode or supporting hidden human resources (SEAL teams and such), becoming more efficient (albeit more expensive, monetarily), using less personnel and we need to follow the Israeli's example once again concerning security.



I actually agree with ya here. The population has no need to know HOW we win the war, just that we won the war.

:cool:

LogansPapa
06-23-2008, 10:24 AM
I actually agree with ya here. The population has no need to know HOW we win the war, just that we won the war.

:cool:

Yep. News was restricted in WWII, are far as I've been taught - must have been a good reason for it. In today's information-in-a-second age, news can be dangerous to our folks out where the bullets fly. I think a year later is a fair amount of time to show these hits.

megimoo
06-23-2008, 11:59 AM
Yep. News was restricted in WWII, are far as I've been taught - must have been a good reason for it. In today's information-in-a-second age, news can be dangerous to our folks out where the bullets fly. I think a year later is a fair amount of time to show these hits.Are you concerned about technology leaks to The Taliban or that Bin Laden will developed Fuel/air devices ?
Me thinks that the majority of your posts are a result of your liberal knee jerk ideology and the concern for security is a smoke screen .

LogansPapa
06-23-2008, 12:06 PM
Iím sorry you canít see the basic logic.

Perhaps you can explain why, say when an enemyís car is blown apart like a beer can in the middle of a crowded street, via a missile from one of our helicopters, the armed forces in Israel donít make a big deal out of the extermination. Maybe we should show Special Forces in real-time on pay-per-view?

Youíre a silly knob - and thatís not my fault.

megimoo
06-23-2008, 12:09 PM
Iím sorry you canít see the basic logic.

Perhaps you can explain why, say when an enemyís car is blown apart like a beer can in the middle of a crowded street, via a missile from one of our helicopters, the armed forces in Israel donít make a big deal out of the extermination. Maybe we should show Special Forces in real-time on pay-per-view?

Youíre a silly knob - and thatís not my fault.Change your sox libber your feet stink !

LogansPapa
06-23-2008, 12:12 PM
You really have an addiction for being bitch-slapped, donít you?:rolleyes:

megimoo
06-23-2008, 12:29 PM
You really have an addiction for being bitch-slapped, donít you?:rolleyes:You are just the 'bitch' to do it .Don't go and take yourself too seriously Bozo none of the rest of us do !

LogansPapa
06-23-2008, 12:31 PM
You are just the 'bitch' to do it .Don't go and take yourself too seriously Bozo none of the rest of us do !

That's MR. BOZO to you Sir.:cool:

megimoo
06-23-2008, 12:41 PM
You really have an addiction for being bitch-slapped, donít you?:rolleyes:BLU-118/B Thermobaric Weapon

The BLU-118/B nomenclature was first reported on 21 December 2001, and this weapon is clearly unrelated to the BLU-118 500 lb. napalm canister used during the Vietnam war.

The BLU-118/B is a penetrating warhead filled with an advanced thermobaric explosive that, when detonated, generates higher sustained blast pressures in confined spaces such as tunnels and underground facilities.

The BLU-118/B uses the same penetrator body as the standard BLU-109 weapon. The significant difference is the replacement of the high explosive fill with a new thermobaric explosive that provides increased lethality in confined spaces.

The BLU-118/B warhead uses a Fuze Munition Unit (FMU)-143J/B to initiate the explosive. The FMU-143 fuze has been modified with a new booster and a 120-millisecond delay. All weapon guidance systems and employment options currently used with the BLU-109 warhead are compatible with the new BLU-118/B warhead.

BLU-118/B payload candidates included PBXIH-135 [one of the Navy's new insensitive polymer bonded explosives], HAS-13, or SFAE [solid fuel air explosive] loaded into existing BLU-109 Weapon Bodies. Conventional high explosives (CHE) are characterized by a sensitivity to mechanical or thermal energy. Insensitive high explosives (IHE), on the other hand, require extraordinarily high stimuli before violent reaction occurs. Insensitive explosives reliably fulfil their performance, readiness and operational requirements on demand, but the violence of response to unplanned hazardous stimuli is restricted to an acceptable level.

This means that when a munition is in a fire, hit by a fragment, bullet or high velocity projectile or subject to some other hazard the result will not be a detonation or a violent reaction of the explosive and propellant; no more than severe burning will ocur [such a deflagration is an exothermic reaction that occurs particle to particle at subsonic speed]. Some insensitive explosives are known to react in a different way to conventional explosives. For instance, detonation reactions are slower but more energy is released in a way that has the potential to produce a lot more damage.

The BLU-118/B bomb body can be attached to a variety of laser guidance system packages, including the GBU-15, GBU-24, GBU-27, and GBU-28 laser guided bombs, as well as the AGM-130 missiles.

BLU-118B weapon operational concepts include vertical delivery with the bomb detonated at or just outside portal, skip bomb with short fuse (1st or second contact), skip bomb with long fuse (penetrate door, max distance down adit), and vertical delivery to penetrate overburden and detonate inside the tunnel adit.

Class Bomb Live Unit (BLU)-118/B Thermobaric Warhead
The BLU-118B was successfully tested at the Nevada Test Site on 14 December 2001. During that test, a Guided Bomb Unit (GBU)-24 laser-guided weapon using the BLU-118B warhead was dropped from an F-15E attack aircraft. The laser-guided bomb was "skipped" into a tunnel and exploded with a delayed fuze, which produced a significant growth in overpressure and temperature in the tunnel. When compared to the standard BLU-109 explosive, results showed the new thermobaric weapon generated a significant improvement in overpressure and pressure-impulse in the tunnel complex. The test culminated a two-month accelerated effort to rapidly transition a developmental explosive to improve lethality against underground facilities. DTRA weaponized and delivered (within 60 days) 10 thermobaric-filled air delivered munitions (BLU-118B) designed to enhance lethality in tunnel environments. Specifications
Guidance GBU-15
GBU-24
AGM-130

Total Weight (lbs.) ~ 1975
Length (in.) 98.5
Diameter (in.) 14.5
Explosive Weight (lbs.) ~ 560
Fuze FMU-143
Aircraft F-15E

LogansPapa
06-23-2008, 12:47 PM
Yeah? So what? Is all that anything we haven't already seen on 'FutureWeapons?'

megimoo
06-23-2008, 01:22 PM
Yeah? So what? Is all that anything we haven't already seen on 'FutureWeapons?'

M1060 40mm Thermobaric Grenade

The XM1060 40mm Thermobaric Grenade, developed and fielded by Picatinny within a four-month span, is the very first small arms thermobaric device released to a US war theatre. It is applauded as a critical tool for military operations in urban terrain and close-quarters cave applications.

"An e-mail from Maj. Gen. John Vines, commanding general, Combined Joint Task Force 180, made it all worthwhile. "We love it," he wrote. "We want more! The rounds work wonderfully in caves; they are quite effective. We want a boatload."

Thermobaric cartridges provide soldiers with a significantly greater probability of kill/incapacitation within the effective radius. Thermobaric cartridges provide soldiers with a significantly greater probability of kill/incapacitation within the effective radius. The lethality effect results from a thermobaric overpressure blast rather than fragmentation. As a result of the thermobaric reaction, all enemy personnel within the effective radius will suffer lethal effects as opposed to the conventional fragmentation round.

Picatinny Arsenal, N.J.-The Armaments Research, Development and Engineering Center's Program Manager-Soldier Weapons responded to an urgent request for 40mm thermobaric cartridges in five months-an unprecedented response time from development to fielding. Program Executive Office-Soldier Commander Col. James R. Moran challenged the PM-SW office in November 2002 to produce 40mm thermobaric cartridges within four to six months.

In order to meet the short deadline, it was decided to use existing 40mm ammunition components. The 40mm 550 fuze, the M195 cartridge case and a modified version of the M583 projectile body was used along with a YJ-05 thermobaric mix (a proprietary mix from contractor Ensign Bickford). Its performance in a smaller caliber was unknown. Brought into the development were Ensign Bickford Aerospace and Defense and Milan Army Ammunition Plant for loading, assembling and packaging.

Along with several other accomplishments, the TACOM-ARDEC team expedited the design modification, preparation of Interim Hazard Classifications, the safety assessment report and completion of required energetic material testing. Milan loaded, assembled and packed 1,518 cartridges, fired 22 to see if they worked, shipped 308 to Aberdeen Proving Ground, Md., for safety release testing and prepared the rest for shipment. By April 8, all tests had been completed and the cartridge had passed all tests. Milan had all the cartridges ready for shipment.

Although Maj. Gen. James D. Thurman, director of training, Office of the Deputy Chief of Staff, decided that the rounds would not be needed for the original urgent request for Operation Iraqi Freedom, he decided the cartridges could be used for the continuing war on terrorism.

On 22 April 2003, PM-SW received an urgent need from the Combined Joint Task Force-the rounds would now be used in Afghanistan. The rounds were shipped on April 30. An e-mail from Maj. Gen. John Vines, commanding general, Combined Joint Task Force 180, made it all worthwhile. "We love it," he wrote. "We want more! The rounds work wonderfully in caves; they are quite effective. We want a boatload." In five short months, these cartridges were developed, tested and produced, and are now being used in the war on terrorism in Afghanistan. More are in the works.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/m1060.htm