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Ringo
01-21-2009, 08:17 PM
to fight terror that FISA didn't provide ?

In short, why did Bush need to go around FISA ?

Hint...It's not to save my ass, as most of you cowboys are getting ready to type.

Is there a legit answer ? ..can we debate this ?

BadCat
01-21-2009, 08:19 PM
to fight terror that FISA didn't provide ?

In short, why did Bush need to go around FISA ?

Hint...It's not to save my ass, as most of you cowboys are getting ready to type.

Is there a legit answer ? ..can we debate this ?

How long does it take to get a FISA approved warrant?
There's your answer.

Ringo
01-21-2009, 08:20 PM
How long does it take to get a FISA approved warrant?
There's your answer.

A FISA warrant isn't needed to wiretap a suspect. It can be obtained later ...after the wiretap has taken place. There's your answer.

Thanks for playing

BadCat
01-21-2009, 08:25 PM
A FISA warrant isn't needed to wiretap a suspect. It can be obtained later ...after the wiretap has taken place. There's your answer.

Thanks for playing

And if, for some stupid liberal reason, the tap is denied? The information obtained is thrown out?

"Yeah, he's going to blow up Chicago, but that was an illegal wiretap, so you can't arrest him"

I've seen the decisions of some of the moonbat courts, this would have a high probability of happening.

patriot45
01-21-2009, 08:26 PM
to fight terror that FISA didn't provide ?

In short, why did Bush need to go around FISA ?

Hint...It's not to save my ass, as most of you cowboys are getting ready to type.

Is there a legit answer ? ..can we debate this ?

Its been debated to death, so no.

Take this,

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i230/patriot45270/DUMMIE-1.gif

Ringo
01-21-2009, 08:28 PM
And if, for some stupid liberal reason, the tap is denied? The information obtained is thrown out?

"Yeah, he's going to blow up Chicago, but that was an illegal wiretap, so you can't arrest him"

I've seen the decisions of some of the moonbat courts, this would have a high probability of happening.


If the info is about a crime or criminal, it wouldn't be thrown out. And 99% of the taps are approved.

So ...what does that leave us with ? Why did Bush go around FISA ?

It's not they are taking to long to issue a warrant

It's not because the intel keeps getting thrown out

Why ?

BadCat
01-21-2009, 08:34 PM
If the info is about a crime or criminal, it wouldn't be thrown out. And 99% of the taps are approved.

So ...what does that leave us with ? Why did Bush go around FISA ?

It's not they are taking to long to issue a warrant

It's not because the intel keeps getting thrown out

Why ?

Oh please.

We got a "president" who thinks the murderers at Gitmo deserve the same Constitutional protections offered to US citizens.

Many of them would have been thrown out. The Ninth Circus Court thinks that whales have rights.

Ringo
01-21-2009, 08:37 PM
Oh please.

We got a "president" who thinks the murderers at Gitmo deserve the same Constitutional protections offered to US citizens.

Many of them would have been thrown out. The Ninth Circus Court thinks that whales have rights.

If there are murderers at Gitmo ...then why did Bush release hundreds of murderers from there ?

LOL ...I own you.

Ringo
01-21-2009, 08:38 PM
Oh please.

We got a "president" who thinks the murderers at Gitmo deserve the same Constitutional protections offered to US citizens.

Many of them would have been thrown out. The Ninth Circus Court thinks that whales have rights.

But again ....

Why did Bush go around FISA ? ...what tool was he lacking ?

LOL ...I own all of you.

Ringo
01-21-2009, 08:48 PM
"A wiretap requires a court order" -GWB

http://www.hermes-press.com/bush_kiss.jpg

patriot45
01-21-2009, 08:49 PM
But again ....

Why did Bush go around FISA ? ...what tool was he lacking ?

LOL ...I own all of you.

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i230/patriot45270/october/littlestory.jpg

Ringo
01-21-2009, 08:51 PM
Thanks for your input, it's very insightful.

BadCat
01-21-2009, 08:52 PM
You own us?

Did the bamster confiscate us and give them to his communist base when we weren't looking?

Ringo
01-21-2009, 08:54 PM
You own us?

Did the bamster confiscate us and give them to his communist base when we weren't looking?

Why did Bush go around FISA ?

"A wiretap requires a warrant" -GWB

BadCat
01-21-2009, 08:56 PM
Why did Bush go around FISA ?

"A wiretap requires a warrant" -GWB

I guess you'd have to ask him.
I told you why I would go around it, were I in that position.

patriot45
01-21-2009, 08:58 PM
Thanks for your input, it's very insightful.


I know you don't like it, I aim to please.

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i230/patriot45270/special-moonbat-1.jpg


Thanks for giving me a chance to bring out some old pictures.

MstrBlue
01-21-2009, 08:59 PM
It is a trick question, because President Bush did not "go around" FISA!
He exercised his authority to initiate surveillance while his representative agencies prepared the documents to go before the FISA courts.
The failing resulted from the many leaks of information, forcing the Administration into a damage-control mode.


By the way... you can only own me, if I surrender myself to you. Not going to happen.
However, if you want to "own" me, you can have my bills, too! PM me with an address to forward them to you! :D

Ringo
01-21-2009, 09:03 PM
I guess you'd have to ask him.
I told you why I would go around it, were I in that position.

Ya you told me.

You would go around it because someday a crazy left wing judge just might not give approval for a warrant....While you are completely ignoring that 99% of the warrants were getting approved.

Thats some logic ... LOL ...and you would call that rational ?

BadCat
01-21-2009, 09:05 PM
Ya you told me.

You would go around it because someday a crazy left wing judge just might not give approval for a warrant....While you are completely ignoring that 99% of the warrants were getting approved.

Thats some logic ... LOL ...and you would call that rational ?

Sure.
When you have enemies in your own country, you do what you have to do.

Ringo
01-21-2009, 09:05 PM
while his representative agencies prepared the documents to go before the FISA courts.



Thats not true. They were not preparing requests for all the wiretaps....simply not true.

Ringo
01-21-2009, 09:06 PM
Sure.
When you have enemies in your own country, you do what you have to do.

So you would go around the courts because they might not side with you ?

Thats illegal....clearly illegal.

BadCat
01-21-2009, 09:07 PM
So you would go around the courts because they might not side with you ?

Thats illegal....clearly illegal.

Yeah. BFD. It's a war.

Ringo
01-21-2009, 09:10 PM
Yeah. BFD. It's a war.

So ? Does the constitution and all other laws get suspended ?

djones520
01-21-2009, 09:13 PM
I know you don't have much ability regarding reading comprehension, but try to muscle your way through this ass bag.

http://fl1.findlaw.com/news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/nsa/dojnsa11906wp.pdf

It has all the answers you want. Well, we all know you really don't want them, because they'll just make your little world all that much smaller.

BadCat
01-21-2009, 09:14 PM
So ? Does the constitution and all other laws get suspended ?

The government has been wiretapping and spying on us since Lyndon Johnson. What's the big deal about listening in on international cell phone calls?

Why are you so spun up over FISA? I've been overseas many times and we always knew that phone calls back to the US were being monitored. By us and about 120 other governments.

djones520
01-21-2009, 09:16 PM
Let me ask you a question Ringo, not that I expect you to answer. You never do.

Why are you up in arms about President Bush using another tool that was used in the hunt for Osama Bin Laden? Do you really want it that much harder to find him?

Ringo
01-21-2009, 09:19 PM
Let me ask you a question Ringo, not that I expect you to answer. You never do.

Why are you up in arms about President Bush using another tool that was used in the hunt for Osama Bin Laden? Do you really want it that much harder to find him?

OOOOO, I got goose bumps, you are so so close.

So, what is that tool you speak of ?

djones520
01-21-2009, 09:20 PM
OOOOO, I got goose bumps, you are so so close.

So, what is that tool you speak of ?


Read the fucking link I posted numb nuts. And answer the question you sackless nancy.

Ringo
01-21-2009, 09:22 PM
Read the fucking link I posted numb nuts. And answer the question you sackless nancy.

I can't open it. Just tell me what the new tool is.

What is the new tool that is listed in your link ?

djones520
01-21-2009, 09:25 PM
The wire taps for international calls dickswab.


As the President has explained, since shortly after the attacks of September 11, 2001, he has authorized the National Security Agency (“NSA”) to intercept international communications into and out of the United States of persons linked to al Qaeda or related terrorist organizations. The purpose of these intercepts is to establish an early warning system to detect and prevent another catastrophic terrorist attack on the United States. This paper addresses, in an unclassified form, the legal basis for the NSA activities described by the President (“NSA activities”).

Download adobe. 42 pages from the DOJ explaining the legalities.

Phillygirl
01-21-2009, 09:27 PM
So you would go around the courts because they might not side with you ?

Thats illegal....clearly illegal.

What law does it violate?

djones520
01-21-2009, 09:29 PM
What law does it violate?

Thats to complex of a question for him Philly.

Ringo
01-21-2009, 09:32 PM
The wire taps for international calls dickswab.



Download adobe. 42 pages from the DOJ explaining the legalities.

OK.

But what about warrantless domestic wiretapping

And ...the quote you provided doesn't say WHY Bush needed to go around FISA and not get warrants.

It simply says Bush ordered the NSA to intercept international calls.

What is the new tool you mentioned ? ...a wiretapp certainly isn't new.

Ringo
01-21-2009, 09:34 PM
What law does it violate?

Wait.

You are asking why it is illegal to ignore the court of law ? ...OMG.

That takes the cake.

djones520
01-21-2009, 09:39 PM
OK.

But what about warrantless domestic wiretapping

And ...the quote you provided doesn't say WHY Bush needed to go around FISA and not get warrants.

It simply says Bush ordered the NSA to intercept international calls.

What is the new tool you mentioned ? ...a wiretapp certainly isn't new.

You asked what tools President Bush needed that FISA didn't give him. I gave you the answer.

The excerpt I posted was the prologue of the 42 page non-classified document that the Department of Justice published to explain the legalities of his use of the wire taps.

So go download adobe, and read it.

Phillygirl
01-21-2009, 09:39 PM
Wait.

You are asking why it is illegal to ignore the court of law ? ...OMG.

That takes the cake.

Re-read my question. More slowly this time. I tried to use as few syllables in the words as possible, given the discussion. But if need be, I can speak more slowly and dumb it down a bit more for you. However, since I only used one multi-syllabic word the first time, give me a bit more time to try to rephrase. Is English your first and only language? If not, maybe we can get a translator here.

Ringo
01-21-2009, 09:45 PM
Re-read my question. More slowly this time. I tried to use as few syllables in the words as possible, given the discussion. But if need be, I can speak more slowly and dumb it down a bit more for you. However, since I only used one multi-syllabic word the first time, give me a bit more time to try to rephrase. Is English your first and only language? If not, maybe we can get a translator here.

What law ? ...I can't believe I am about to explain this....unreal.

It depends on what court order you are avoiding.

If you ignore the court when they tell you not to drive ...you will get in more trouble, it's called violating a court order

The court is the law, and violating their orders is agaisnt the law...thats why you get in trouble when you ignore the courts orders.

Ringo
01-21-2009, 09:47 PM
You asked what tools President Bush needed that FISA didn't give him. I gave you the answer.

The excerpt I posted was the prologue of the 42 page non-classified document that the Department of Justice published to explain the legalities of his use of the wire taps.

So go download adobe, and read it.

The part you posted simply said Bush ordered the NSA to intecept international calls.

What the fuck is the new tool ? ...wiretaping ? ...thats not new. I would have no problem with Bush wiretaping through the FISA court.

My question is why did Bush need to go around FISA ?

djones520
01-21-2009, 09:49 PM
The part you posted simply said Bush ordered the NSA to intecept international calls.

What the fuck is the new tool ? ...wiretaping ? ...thats not new. I would have no problem with Bush wiretaping through the FISA court.

My question is why did Bush need to go around FISA ?

DOWNLOAD ADOBE AND READ THE FUCKING THING YOURSELF!!

I provided everything you need. The only thing stopping yourself from learning the truth, is yourself.

Phillygirl
01-21-2009, 09:51 PM
What law ? ...I can't believe I am about to explain this....unreal.


It depends on what court order you are avoiding.

If you ignore the court when they tell you not to drive ...you will get in more trouble, it's called violating a court order

The court is the law, and violating their orders is agaisnt the law...thats why you get in trouble when you ignore the courts orders.

Ahh, introduction of a new term...court "order". Now we're onto a different issue, which is contempt. Very tricky of you. But that was not your initial assertion.

You initially indicated that "going around the courts" was "clearly illegal".

I asked you what law such action was violating.

Now you say that violating a court order is against the law.

At least we have a starting point that we can agree. Violating a court order is against the law.

But how about we get back to your initial assertion, which I questioned you about...that being that taking action to avoid going to the courts is clearly illegal.

Please tell me what law it violates, since there is no court order in effect that is being violated. In fact, as you conceded earlier, there was a failure to utilize the court, hence, no order.

So, would you like to try again?

Gingersnap
01-21-2009, 10:05 PM
See? This "debate" thingy does work. :)

AlmostThere
01-21-2009, 10:36 PM
Why did Bush go around FISA ?


Why don't you tell us what you think? You say you want a debate so go ahead and state your case.

Ranger Rick
01-21-2009, 10:44 PM
Or, perhaps you can cite an example?

Constitutionally Speaking
01-22-2009, 02:12 AM
A FISA warrant isn't needed to wiretap a suspect. It can be obtained later ...after the wiretap has taken place. There's your answer.

Thanks for playing


You really don't know do you???


President Bush's policy was nothing new and the courts have affirmed he acted legally. Pissant.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123206822799888351.html?mod=djemEditorialPage

Constitutionally Speaking
01-22-2009, 02:14 AM
Wait.

You are asking why it is illegal to ignore the court of law ? ...OMG.

That takes the cake.


It is YOU who is ignoring a court of law. See my above post.

Ringo
01-22-2009, 07:58 AM
Why don't you tell us what you think? You say you want a debate so go ahead and state your case.

He went around FISA so he could wiretapp journalists and politicians.

Ringo
01-22-2009, 08:01 AM
You really don't know do you???


President Bush's policy was nothing new and the courts have affirmed he acted legally. Pissant.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123206822799888351.html?mod=djemEditorialPage

Look at that, the namecalling mod opened his mouth...

And you couldn't be MORE WRONG. The link you provided shows us the FISA court approved Bush to collect FOREIGN intel....not domestic.

The FISA appeals court said in its 2002 opinion In re Sealed Case that the President has "inherent authority to conduct warrantless searches to obtain foreign intelligence information" and took "for granted" that "FISA could not encroach on the President's constitutional power

Sonnabend
01-22-2009, 08:02 AM
He went around FISA so he could wiretapp journalists and politicians.

Suuure he did.

Ringo
01-22-2009, 08:04 AM
Suuure he did.

There was a whistleblower on KO last night, he said he will tell all. He said they were wiretapping journalists.

The FBI also says Bush is wiretapping innocent Americans, in fact, the FBI says most tapps are on innocent Americans.

MstrBlue
01-22-2009, 10:20 AM
There was a whistleblower on KO last night, he said he will tell all. He said they were wiretapping journalists.

The FBI also says Bush is wiretapping innocent Americans, in fact, the FBI says most tapps are on innocent Americans.

And this "whistle-blower's" DU screen-name would be.....? :D

BTW... one of my 11-year old daughters overheard my wife and I talking about this thread...
She asked me what the what the problem is, since the President can do pretty much anything he needs to do, in the interest of National Security, to protect the United States during a time of War!

Perhaps you would benefit from talking to an elementary school social studies teacher. :rolleyes:

Phillygirl
01-22-2009, 11:44 AM
There was a whistleblower on KO last night, he said he will tell all. He said they were wiretapping journalists.

The FBI also says Bush is wiretapping innocent Americans, in fact, the FBI says most tapps are on innocent Americans.

Link, please? The FBI isn't a person, it's an organization, so can you tell me how many people in the FBI organization say this?

PoliCon
01-22-2009, 12:22 PM
to fight terror that FISA didn't provide ?

In short, why did Bush need to go around FISA ?

Hint...It's not to save my ass, as most of you cowboys are getting ready to type.

Is there a legit answer ? ..can we debate this ?Not until you learn something about the subject. Until then - shouldn't you be at recess?

Molon Labe
01-22-2009, 12:28 PM
Link, please? The FBI isn't a person, it's an organization, so can you tell me how many people in the FBI organization say this?

Don't know about any links....Let Ringo provide them
But...I hate to say I have to agree that this is the case. Judge Andrew Napolitano has written two very good books that speak about this.

Ree
01-22-2009, 12:55 PM
to fight terror that FISA didn't provide ?

In short, why did Bush need to go around FISA ?

Hint...It's not to save my ass, as most of you cowboys are getting ready to type.

Is there a legit answer ? ..can we debate this ?
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i310/ReeW/smilies/Debunked_Already.gif

Sonnabend
01-22-2009, 02:44 PM
The FBI also says Bush is wiretapping innocent Americans, in fact, the FBI says most tapps are on innocent Americans.

The FBI is guilty of a history of massive warrantless, illegal wiretaps, and is no one to lecture on the subject.

COINTELPRO, anyone?

AlmostThere
01-22-2009, 02:56 PM
There was a whistleblower on KO last night, he said he will tell all. He said they were wiretapping journalists.

The FBI also says Bush is wiretapping innocent Americans, in fact, the FBI says most tapps are on innocent Americans.
In 2003 your whistleblower tried to out a colleague as a Chinese spy. The woman was investigated thoroughly and cleared. But Tice, your whistleblower, wouldn't accept that and started his own investigation. His actions so exceeded his authorization that he was stripped of his security clearance and subsequently fired in 2005.
You think maybe he has an axe to grind?

Rebel Yell
01-22-2009, 03:02 PM
Perhaps, just perhaps, like President Obama, President Bush was channeling his inner Lincoln.

PoliCon
01-22-2009, 03:13 PM
In 2003 your whistleblower tried to out a colleague as a Chinese spy. The woman was investigated thoroughly and cleared. But Tice, your whistleblower, wouldn't accept that and started his own investigation. His actions so exceeded his authorization that he was stripped of his security clearance and subsequently fired in 2005.
You think maybe he has an axe to grind?lol that's only going to make him like the tool that much more! Lefties love Axes.