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View Full Version : I want to hear the pro-choicers defend this.



Rebel Yell
02-06-2009, 09:54 AM
There is only a few minutes difference in the viable baby and the sub human fetus.


Oh, yeah. It's in Florida.

Fla. doctor investigated in badly botched abortion
By CHRISTINE ARMARIO

Eighteen and pregnant, Sycloria Williams went to an abortion clinic outside Miami and paid $1,200 for Dr. Pierre Jean-Jacque Renelique to terminate her 23-week pregnancy.

Three days later, she sat in a reclining chair, medicated to dilate her cervix and otherwise get her ready for the procedure.

Only Renelique didn't arrive in time. According to Williams and the Florida Department of Health, she went into labor and delivered a live baby girl.

What Williams and the Health Department say happened next has shocked people on both sides of the abortion debate: One of the clinic's owners, who has no medical license, cut the infant's umbilical cord. Williams says the woman placed the baby in a plastic biohazard bag and threw it out.

Police recovered the decomposing remains in a cardboard box a week later after getting anonymous tips.

"I don't care what your politics are, what your morals are, this should not be happening in our community," said Tom Pennekamp, a Miami attorney representing Williams in her lawsuit against Renelique (ren-uh-LEEK') and the clinic owners.

http://www.buffalonews.com/260/story/570428.html

AHeneen
02-06-2009, 09:57 AM
I hope she and any assistant are locked up for murder...cold-blooded murder.

Rebel Yell
02-06-2009, 10:12 AM
Can I get a mod to correct defend in the title before Linda pops my hand with a ruler.:o

Lars1701a
02-06-2009, 10:20 AM
Can I get a mod to correct defend in the title before Linda pops my hand with a ruler.:o

Are you afraid of her? I tell he to STFU and like it. :cool:

linda22003
02-06-2009, 10:26 AM
Can I get a mod to correct defend in the title before Linda pops my hand with a ruler.:o

Too late. That's my answer to the thread question, as well. Why did the woman wait until viability to seek an abortion? There's really no reason for that.

Gingersnap
02-06-2009, 10:28 AM
Can I get a mod to correct defend in the title before Linda pops my hand with a ruler.:o

Your wish is my command. ;)

Rebel Yell
02-06-2009, 10:30 AM
Are you afraid of her? I tell he to STFU and like it. :cool:

No, actually I think she's funny with it. I used to loathe Linda, but I just laugh at it now.

Lars1701a
02-06-2009, 10:33 AM
No, actually I think she's funny with it. I used to loathe Linda, but I just laugh at it now.


Ok just checking. :)

linda22003
02-06-2009, 10:36 AM
No, actually I think she's funny with it. I used to loathe Linda, but I just laugh at it now.

Aw. I don't loathe ANYone here. I'm contemptuous of a few, but you never made that list.

Rebel Yell
02-06-2009, 10:41 AM
Aw. I don't loathe ANYone here. I'm contemptuous of a few, but you never made that list.

I used to think different, but you aiight in my book.

Lars1701a
02-06-2009, 10:43 AM
Aw. I don't loathe ANYone here. I'm contemptuous of a few, but you never made that list.

Please Please tell me I made your contemptuous list? :)

linda22003
02-06-2009, 10:47 AM
Please Please tell me I made your contemptuous list? :)

Yes, but not consistently. You traverse on and off. More effort is needed on your part. :)

Lars1701a
02-06-2009, 10:49 AM
Yes, but not consistently. You traverse on and off. More effort is needed on your part. :)

shucks will try harder in the future. :D

linda22003
02-06-2009, 10:50 AM
shucks will try harder in the future. :D

I bet you can do it! I have confidence in you!

Lars1701a
02-06-2009, 10:51 AM
I bet you can do it! I have confidence in you!

Though I will be shooting for the loathe list, any help in this matter would be most appreciated :D

linda22003
02-06-2009, 10:55 AM
Scrabbling back to the original topic of the thread, IS there any information on why she waited so long to seek an abortion?

FlaGator
02-06-2009, 11:03 AM
Aw. I don't loathe ANYone here. I'm contemptuous of a few, but you never made that list.

HEY!!!!!!:mad:

:D:D:D

Gingersnap
02-06-2009, 11:04 AM
It appears that the mother was fairly fat and she discovered that she was pregnant in July 2006. The abortion clinic dosed her with the dilation medication that same month.

Legally, it doesn't matter why she waited since abortion is allowed right up to the minute of natural full term birth.

linda22003
02-06-2009, 11:08 AM
That just leads to another question. If you're so fat you can't tell you're that pregnant, who'd want to knock you up in the first place?

Gingersnap
02-06-2009, 11:09 AM
That just leads to another question. If you're so fat you can't tell you're that pregnant, who'd want to knock you up in the first place?

It was Florida. :p

Lars1701a
02-06-2009, 11:12 AM
That just leads to another question. If you're so fat you can't tell you're that pregnant, who'd want to knock you up in the first place?

I dont buy this story women use from time to time. I am guy so I dont understand the pregnant thing but please cant a women feel something is happening big time with her body? No periods for 8 months??

linda22003
02-06-2009, 11:17 AM
I dont buy this story women use from time to time. I am guy so I dont understand the pregnant thing but please cant a women feel something is happening big time with her body? No periods for 8 months??

You would think so. If a woman is too fat or too thin, that can interrupt the menstrual cycle all on its own. Since we don't know how fat we're talking about here, we may just have to go with Ginger's "It's Florida" explanation.

Rebel Yell
02-06-2009, 11:22 AM
I want to hear Wilbur's take on this situation.

Goldwater
02-06-2009, 11:50 AM
Well, this isn't a "botched abortion", it's just murder.

The baby was delivered, alive and well and the doctor killed it, simple as. Abortion doesn't come into it (with the exception that the mother tried to have it done).

noonwitch
02-06-2009, 11:52 AM
The doctor or clinic staff committed murder by placing a baby born alive into a plastic bag. I think it's pretty clear cut, whatever one's legal opinion of abortion may be. The clinic should have called for an ambulance for the baby immediately after delivering it. The legal issues of parental relinquishment of rights or adoption can be worked out later.

This is likely a rare occurence, but perhaps the law needs to be made more specific in similar situations, so that then the abortion providers can have clear procedural guidelines to follow in the future.

Rebel Yell
02-06-2009, 11:59 AM
Well, this isn't a "botched abortion", it's just murder.

The baby was delivered, alive and well and the doctor killed it, simple as. Abortion doesn't come into it (with the exception that the mother tried to have it done).

What was the only difference between this being a routine abortion and murder?

MrsSmith
02-06-2009, 02:12 PM
What was the only difference between this being a routine abortion and murder?

In a "routine" late term abortion, at least according to Tiller's site, the baby would have been killed by a lethal dose of Digoxin before delivery. This would "humanely" cause the baby's heart to beat so hard it would literally explode, and then he would be legally born dead.

Lars1701a
02-06-2009, 02:30 PM
In a "routine" late term abortion, at least according to Tiller's site, the baby would have been killed by a lethal dose of Digoxin before delivery. This would "humanely" cause the baby's heart to beat so hard it would literally explode, and then he would be legally born dead.

Any abortion performed on a baby that can survive outside the mother should be murder no matter what the reason.:mad::(

Goldwater
02-06-2009, 02:34 PM
What was the only difference between this being a routine abortion and murder?

The baby was already out of the womb naturally, thats the difference.

Lars1701a
02-06-2009, 02:38 PM
The baby was already out of the womb naturally, thats the difference.

So if the baby was killed just a minute before it was out of the womb that would be ok?

Goldwater
02-06-2009, 02:57 PM
So if the baby was killed just a minute before it was out of the womb that would be ok?

No I didn't say that, but it would be defined as an "abortion" wouldn't it? I am against most forms of abortion if you are unclear on my stance.

wilbur
02-06-2009, 03:13 PM
I want to hear Wilbur's take on this situation.

I generally don't agree with abortions beyond 20 weeks or so