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Hugh Lincoln
02-28-2009, 11:18 PM
It's so exciting, the waves of crime coming to our country:

http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2009/02/illegals_target.php

Lexington County, S.C., Deputy Sheriff Ted Xanthakis and his K-9 police dog, Arcos, were attacked by the three illegals armed with a 12-gauge shotgun during a Feb. 8 incident in West Columbia, S.C., shortly after 3 a.m. The deputy and his dog survived.

Two of the men were identified in a U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) report as members of the Surenos gang, or SUR-13, a collection of Mexican-American street gangs with origins in the oldest barrios of Southern California.

FlaGator
02-28-2009, 11:23 PM
It's so exciting, the waves of crime coming to our country:

http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2009/02/illegals_target.php

Lexington County, S.C., Deputy Sheriff Ted Xanthakis and his K-9 police dog, Arcos, were attacked by the three illegals armed with a 12-gauge shotgun during a Feb. 8 incident in West Columbia, S.C., shortly after 3 a.m. The deputy and his dog survived.

Two of the men were identified in a U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) report as members of the Surenos gang, or SUR-13, a collection of Mexican-American street gangs with origins in the oldest barrios of Southern California.


Actually that title should be Illegal Immigration Enriches Us All.

Mythic
03-01-2009, 02:28 AM
Actually that title should be Illegal Immigration Enriches Us All.
Exactly (well if you were being sarcastic of course). There are plenty of legal immigrants who are not criminals. That is one of the reasons why they were able to come into the country in the first place and become legal citizens.

FlaGator
03-01-2009, 06:37 AM
Exactly (well if you were being sarcastic of course). There are plenty of legal immigrants who are not criminals. That is one of the reasons why they were able to come into the country in the first place and become legal citizens.

I work with quite a few people who immigrated here legally and they are fine members of society that I enjoy having as friends. The title and the text that follows seems to promote an isolationalist policy which I am against.

Sonnabend
03-01-2009, 07:20 AM
I think Hugh is Eyelid's little brother.

Isnt that sweet? :D

Celtic Rose
03-01-2009, 11:04 AM
Exactly (well if you were being sarcastic of course). There are plenty of legal immigrants who are not criminals. That is one of the reasons why they were able to come into the country in the first place and become legal citizens.

Yep. They do often run background checks when people apply for visas and when they apply for non-immigrant status in the US. One of the reasons that the green card process takes such a long time is the the FBI checks the name of every person who applies to make sure that they aren't on any watch lists, or even connected to a watch list. They take fingerprints to make sure they match up to anything. People have to undergo a physical exam to ensure that they don't have any communicable disease and that they have all of the necessary vaccinations.

There are issues with our current immigration program, and there are definitely things that I think should be changed, but over all, legal immigration is not a problem. Illegal immigration is what is dangerous because there is no background check and we don't know who is here.

noonwitch
03-02-2009, 01:44 PM
Legal immigration is a great thing. 3 of my grandparents were legal immigrants. The 4th was the Mayflower descendant.

PoliCon
03-02-2009, 02:54 PM
Immigration is a good thing. What's a bad thing is the failure to assimilate.

FlaGator
03-02-2009, 04:28 PM
Immigration is a good thing. What's a bad thing is the failure to assimilate.

The Borg have a similar saying....:D

Hugh Lincoln
03-02-2009, 06:15 PM
Both legal and illegal immigration are completely out of control. We need to stop both, especially now.

PoliCon
03-02-2009, 06:47 PM
Both legal and illegal immigration are completely out of control. We need to stop both, especially now.

How is legal immigration out of control?

FlaGator
03-02-2009, 08:37 PM
How is legal immigration out of control?

I suspect it's because white people aren't the ones legally immigrating... :rolleyes:

PoliCon
03-02-2009, 08:40 PM
I suspect it's because white people aren't the ones legally immigrating... :rolleyes:

ah so you think he's as dumb and racist as gator?

Mythic
03-02-2009, 11:13 PM
If it makes he feel better my grandparents were white immigrants...:rolleyes:

Odysseus
03-03-2009, 12:40 AM
Immigration is a good thing. What's a bad thing is the failure to assimilate.
Exactly. Being an American is unique, in that we are one of the few nations in the world that permits people to become citizens with full equality, regardless of their origins. Becoming an American is an act of political will, not simply a matter of birth.

Both legal and illegal immigration are completely out of control. We need to stop both, especially now.
Care to explain that further?

ah so you think he's as dumb and racist as gator?
Not likely. Gator is in a class by himself, and to get to that class, he takes the short bus. :D

Remember, my wife is a foreign national who had overstayed her visa when we met. We had to jump through a number of hoops to change her status, and it cost us a great deal of time and money, so I don't think that I'm particularly unsympathetic to immigrants, but there are legitimate arguments for curbing legal immigration numbers, or at least overhauling the system, that have nothing to do with racial attitudes. For example, we're in a serious economic downturn. Does it make sense to continue to encourage immigration when the job market is tightening? Also, is it racist to point out that some nations' expatriates will be easier to assimilate than others'? Simply advocating changes in policy doesn't make you a racist.

Sonnabend
03-03-2009, 05:08 AM
Both legal and illegal immigration are completely out of control. We need to stop both, especially now.

I can think off the top of my head of three legal immigrants who have enriched your lives immensely.

You're a Ron Paul fan...arent you?

Hugh Lincoln
03-04-2009, 08:29 PM
but there are legitimate arguments for curbing legal immigration numbers, or at least overhauling the system, that have nothing to do with racial attitudes. For example, we're in a serious economic downturn. Does it make sense to continue to encourage immigration when the job market is tightening? Also, is it racist to point out that some nations' expatriates will be easier to assimilate than others'? Simply advocating changes in policy doesn't make you a racist.

Good points, but to those in power, only evil people oppose immigration.

Craig Nelsen of NumbersUSA once posed a good question to Bush II: "How many people in America would be too many?"

Needless to say, Bush had no answer, and neither do the immigration idiots.

Here's an immigrant who enriched us by killing Chandra Levy:

http://blog.vdare.com/archives/2009/03/04/as-usual-vdarecom-reporting-is-several-miles-ahead-of-the-msm/

The media, of course, was desperately hoping it was a white congressman.

Gingersnap
03-04-2009, 09:36 PM
Good points, but to those in power, only evil people oppose immigration.


There's a good deal of truth to this. Times really have changed and the economic model that sucked in millions of foreign peasants (my own grandparents among them) and spit out well-assimilated first generation Americans is largely over. It still exists among immigrants in technical fields and some small business people but the old model of servants and tenant farmers is over.

There is a limit to the resources any country has and during times of economic upheaval, it makes sense to concentrate resources on current citizens. Adults with college degrees are actually competing for fry cook jobs in some areas. The competition for higher level jobs is obviously very hot at the moment. We clearly have enough people to do the jobs that Americans previously didn't do.

Legal immigration issues are worth talking about at this time. Talking about these things certainly doesn't mean the discussion is racist or nativist or whatever other "ist" or "ism" seems most inflammatory.

(Now play nice. ;))

Odysseus
03-04-2009, 11:37 PM
Good points, but to those in power, only evil people oppose immigration.
Craig Nelsen of NumbersUSA once posed a good question to Bush II: "How many people in America would be too many?"
Needless to say, Bush had no answer, and neither do the immigration idiots.
Here's an immigrant who enriched us by killing Chandra Levy:
http://blog.vdare.com/archives/2009/03/04/as-usual-vdarecom-reporting-is-several-miles-ahead-of-the-msm/
The media, of course, was desperately hoping it was a white congressman.
Admittedly, that would have made for a more dramatic story. But, the congressman in question was a Democrat and the media still went after him. That's an improvement over their kid gloves treatment of Teddy Kennedy. But, as soon as the murderer turned out to be an illegal, the story dropped off of the radar. BTW, I'm pretty sure that the murderer is an illegal, but the news stories that I read didn't mention his immigration status, just calling him an "immigrant." Not too long ago, I tried to google stats on illegal immigrants and crime. It's almost impossible to find crime stats among illegals, because the major cities with the highest populations won't allow the question to be asked, then they claim that the huge number of incidents that people cite are "anecdotal" and don't reflect the real situation. I spent some time at the Bureau of Justice Statistics page, where they track the prison population by race, gender, HIV status, even parents with minor children, but no single report on felons by immigration status. You'd think that someone would want to know that, wouldn't you?

There's a good deal of truth to this. Times really have changed and the economic model that sucked in millions of foreign peasants (my own grandparents among them) and spit out well-assimilated first generation Americans is largely over. It still exists among immigrants in technical fields and some small business people but the old model of servants and tenant farmers is over.
There is a limit to the resources any country has and during times of economic upheaval, it makes sense to concentrate resources on current citizens. Adults with college degrees are actually competing for fry cook jobs in some areas. The competition for higher level jobs is obviously very hot at the moment. We clearly have enough people to do the jobs that Americans previously didn't do.
Legal immigration issues are worth talking about at this time. Talking about these things certainly doesn't mean the discussion is racist or nativist or whatever other "ist" or "ism" seems most inflammatory.
(Now play nice. ;))
The real problem with legal immigration is that the multiculturalists refuse to permit any discussion of the impacts of unassimilated people from cultures whose values are incompatible with ours. For example, you don't find honor killings in western culture, but when the subject is raised, the Islamists try to dismiss them as run of the mill domestic violence, rather than a unique cultural phenomenon. With the world rapidly changing, and America rapidly becoming the last bastion of western civilization, can we afford to allow in people who are openly hostile to our traditions and heritage?

Sonnabend
03-05-2009, 04:20 AM
Here's an immigrant who enriched us by killing Chandra Levy:

Here (http://www.engineersaustralia.org.au/about-us/overseas_chapters/usa-interest-group/usa-interest-group_home.cfm)

Here (http://www.gmedical.com/)

Oh and, read this, troll

Does the name DeBakey ring a bell? (http://uk.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUKN1240029120080712)


DeBakey, the Louisiana-born son of Lebanese immigrants, was still a student at Tulane University in New Orleans in 1932 when he created the roller pump, which would be a critical component of the heart-lung machine that helped make open-heart surgery possible.

I might also add that our country sends doctors to you frequently as immigrants, to teach you new techniques, methods, and to share new technologies that are discovered in places other than the US.

Like the new techniques for burn surgery and treatment that will save lives in the US, invented by an Australian doctor

Like this (http://www.abc.net.au/talkingheads/txt/s1711934.htm)

Oh BTW..the words you are looking for are are thank and you.

Troll.

Gingersnap
03-05-2009, 09:32 AM
The real problem with legal immigration is that the multiculturalists refuse to permit any discussion of the impacts of unassimilated people from cultures whose values are incompatible with ours. For example, you don't find honor killings in western culture, but when the subject is raised, the Islamists try to dismiss them as run of the mill domestic violence, rather than a unique cultural phenomenon. With the world rapidly changing, and America rapidly becoming the last bastion of western civilization, can we afford to allow in people who are openly hostile to our traditions and heritage?

It's a question that is starting (painfully) to be discussed in parts of Europe. It will be a painful discussion here. The "salad bowl" theory sounded so much more exciting than the "melting pot" theory.

So, really we have three questions to discuss: how to curb illegal immigration, how to better manage legal immigration, and how to promote Western values and the best in American culture as a condition of citizenship.

SaintLouieWoman
03-05-2009, 09:50 AM
If it makes he feel better my grandparents were white immigrants...:rolleyes:

So were mine, from Germany.

PoliCon
03-05-2009, 10:08 AM
So were mine, from Germany.

My great grandparents immigrated here from Bavaria, Holstein, Wurttemberg, and Wales - all prior to the turn of the 20th century.

Odysseus
03-06-2009, 12:30 AM
My great grandparents immigrated here from Bavaria, Holstein, Wurttemberg, and Wales - all prior to the turn of the 20th century.

My grandparents were from Russia and my wife is from Wales (and I knew a fellow named Jonah who used to live in Whales :D).

PoliCon
03-06-2009, 12:32 AM
My grandparents were from Russia and my wife is from Wales (and I knew a fellow named Jonah who used to live in Whales :D).I think you are mistaken. It was a big fish not a whale. :p BTW - does she have the rubbish welsh accent? ;)

Odysseus
03-06-2009, 12:54 AM
I think you are mistaken. It was a big fish not a whale. :p BTW - does she have the rubbish welsh accent? ;)

She's been in the US for a while, but her family has a very pronounced accent. BTW, have you ever been there? Based on the road signs, I suspect that the English have taken all of their vowels. :D

Sonnabend
03-06-2009, 04:15 AM
Here's another one, legal immigrants putting their lives on the line to protect jerks like Hugh who spit on their sacrifice.

These people arent citizens, yet they are prepared to make the ultimate sacrifice for their adopted home.

Proud to be an American: Immigrant Soldier Granted American Citizenship in Death (http://www.veteranstoday.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=56)


More than 31,000 members of the U.S. armed forces are not American citizens, but some of them have already given their lives in Iraq. Army Pfc. Diego Rincon, 19, was one of them. Rincon has been awarded posthumous U.S. citizenship.

In Rincon's honor, Representatives Miller and Chambliss are seeking automatic citizenship for all foreign-born soldiers killed fighting for the United States.

"I know Diego is in heaven looking down here and smiling," his father, Jorge Rincon said after the announcement. "He is so very happy right now because this was something he was looking forward to for a long time. He loved this country so much. We are very, very grateful."

When the Rincon family of Conyers, Ga., first got the news of their son's death, all of the memories of his life came rushing back................

"When I saw those people from the United States army coming, everything changed all my life," Jorge Rincon told Good Morning America in an earlier interview. "I ask God why, why us, why Diego?"

Rincon died March 29 while manning an Army roadblock near Najaf when a suicide bomber posing as a taxi driver detonated a bomb.

Officially, Rincon was a permanent U.S. resident, not a U.S. citizen, but his family said the events of Sept. 11, 2001, inspired him to join the military and defend his adopted home. The Rincon family fled Colombia for the suburbs of Atlanta when Diego was 5 years old.

100 Percent American

Joining the military makes the application process for U.S. citizenship less difficult, but it still takes time. But Rincon wasn't fighting in Iraq in exchange for his official citizenship, according to his 20-year-old brother Fabian Rincon. He said the young soldier was fighting for what he believed in, because in his mind and in his heart, he was already 100 percent American.

As opposed to an ungrateful bigoted son of a bitch like our resident troll

Even so, Fabian said Diego and other foreign nationals who die in battle should have their status upgraded to U.S. citizen.

"They're out there fighting for their country, their country that they love," Fabian said.

"They were not born in, but they feel so much a part of it that it's like they were born here. That's how I take it and that's how my brother saw it also," he said. Fabian said his brother was like many other young American guys in his love for cars. He said he hopes there are cars in heaven, because he knows working on his Ford Mustang was Diego's idea of heaven on Earth.

"He bought that car with his own money. He wanted to fix it up. That was his thing. He wasn't into anything bad, just his car," he said.

Last year, President Bush announced an executive order making it easier for the families of foreign nationals killed in combat to apply for citizenship on their loved one's behalf. Miller says it should be automatic.

There are likely hundreds of stories similar to Rincon's stories of foreign nationals who joined the military because they cherish certain freedoms and opportunities the United States might have offered them. But there are thousands of immigrants who join the military because they see it as the best way to gain citizenship.

Green Card Troops

In Los Angeles, Army and Marine recruiters say 50 percent of enlistees are not citizens, but so-called green card troops.

The military emphasizes those benefits in TV commercials that are broadcast in both English and in Spanish. Foreign nationals serving in the military, who are already permanent U.S. residents, were put on a fast track for U.S. citizenship when the president signed an executive order last July 4.

Leon Chung from Hong Kong is one of the thousands looking to benefit from time served in the U.S. military.

"Actually they asked me if I was a citizen of the United States and I told them no. And all

he [the recruiter] said was the Marines will take care of that," Chung said.

Since Bush's order, 8,000 green card holders have joined the military, and many are now fighting in Iraq.

"People from desperate economic situations as well as people who need to have some type of legal status to continue work in this country are signing up at a much higher rate," said Raul Hinojosa, a UCLA professor of Chicano Studies.

The lure of citizenship is so great that hundreds of people have swamped the U.S. Embassy in Mexico City trying to enlist. American officials had to inform them that the fast track to citizenship is good only for immigrants who are legal permanent residents of the U.S.

"We have put out press releases from the embassy to try to explain to people that they would not be eligible," said Jim Dickmeyer of the U.S. Embassy.

And for foreign nationals who are eligible, and who enlist in exchange for their citizenship, the price is often very high. Marine Cpl. Jose Garibay of Mexico fought for America but was killed in Nasiriyah two weeks ago. He received his citizenship one week later.

The Rincon family says they find peace in the knowledge that Diego, who was less than two years out of high school, died fighting for the freedom and rights he believed in. Their home remains draped in American flags and yellow ribbons and Jorge Rincon wears his son's dog tags and buttons bearing his son's image.

The family watches their home videos of Diego on the wrestling team and getting ready for his high school prom while they try to hold onto his spirit. "Diego was happy to be here in this country, he was so proud," Jorge said.

In Diego's last letter home, which the family received a week before he was killed, the young soldier revealed his thoughts.

"I believe God has a path for me," it read. "Whether I make it or not, it's all part of the plan. "Mother" will be the last word I say. Your face will be the last picture that goes through my eyes. I just want to say sorry for anything I have ever done wrong. And I'm doing it all for you, mom. I love you. Your son, Diego." Hey Hugh...this is a direct quote from you


Both legal and illegal immigration are completely out of control. We need to stop both, especially now.Okay....here's the deal.

You pick a soldier and tell them that, since you are signing up to fight,you being a conscientious, patriotic American and all,. who thinks that all legal immigration should end , they can go home.

Care to put your money where that big, fat mouth is?

Gingersnap
03-06-2009, 09:43 AM
We do have a lot of problems with illegal immigration and problems with the assimilation of some legal immigrants. There isn't anything bigoted about making that observation. :confused:

PoliCon
03-06-2009, 10:11 AM
We do have a lot of problems with illegal immigration and problems with the assimilation of some legal immigrants. There isn't anything bigoted about making that observation. :confused:
Bigoted? Maybe not - but it is reactionary to want to stop immigration.

Celtic Rose
03-06-2009, 10:34 AM
Bigoted? Maybe not - but it is reactionary to want to stop immigration.

Personally, I don't want to stop legal immigration, but I do want more controls on it. For example, I think that there need to be more protections for American workers when it comes to the H-1B process, especially when we have so many unemployed workers. To get an employment based green card, your employer has to show that there aren't any qualified US workers who want your job. I think that there should be a similar requirement for hiring new H-1B workers. Companies that have a certain percentage of employees who have H-1B have had to do this for awhile, and companies that have accepted TARP (Troubled Asset Relief Program) funds now have to do it. That is one of the few things that our current government has done that I agree with.

The H-2A program, which is used for temporary agricultural workers, has similar recruitment requirements as well, which is why it bugs me to see people use agricultural work needs to justify illegal immigration. We have visas that will allow non-Americans to come to the US to do agricultural work legally, in a way that protects both the American and Non-American workers.

Gingersnap
03-06-2009, 10:35 AM
Bigoted? Maybe not - but it is reactionary to want to stop immigration.

Well, it's a reaction that an awful lot of people are going to have to accept if we go to universal health care. We can't cope with the numbers of illegal aliens accessing health care right now. When they close the ERs to walk-in traffic and open up "free" clinics, that bill is going to be pretty high even with rationing.

We could absorb the costs of illegal immigration and the more or less random legal immigration during the economic boom times but we won't be able to do it under a socialized government. Labor will contract and low skill workers with little English will be pushed out of the market. Legal immigrants looking to start businesses in the U.S. may instead end up competing for higher wage company jobs.

The Obama administration will almost have to examine unpopular utilitarian measures to prop up his socialized economic vision.

stsinner
03-06-2009, 12:09 PM
The title and the text that follows seems to promote an isolationalist policy which I am against.


I am not for an isolationist policy, necessarily, but I do think that the inscription on the Statue of Liberty should be scrubbed and that we should only allow people to immigrate here who will become productive members of our society.. No more diseased or old or non-working.. No more senior citizens coming here to retire unless they can prove that they have their own means of subsistence-or more accurately that they can prove they won't be sucking off of a system that they didn't pay into.

We have enough poor and tired and huddled masses-now we need producers and providers. It's getting to the point where the number of people taking from the system is overpowering those paying into the system, and this has to be curtailed.. Europe is quickly reaching this point with all of its unaffordable entitlements and government provided services.. We should learn from their mistakes and not follow blindly in their footsteps.. Nothing about Europe's governing is appealing to America, and we should remain free and strong, not morons longing for a better way, ignoring the lessons learned from those who have already failed at the programs that we see as so enticing..

I think we need to stop immigration for a few years and encourage procreation, just as other countries have done.. We're relying on immigrants to fill jobs that require skill and degrees, and this isn't healthy for any country.. We're bringing people here more and more who don't share our values and world view as Americans, and that's why we have an affirmative action hire ruining our country right now, pandering to the Arabs and driving the stock market down 3000 points in 40 days with his socialist policies..

PoliCon
03-06-2009, 12:56 PM
Well, it's a reaction that an awful lot of people are going to have to accept if we go to universal health care. We can't cope with the numbers of illegal aliens accessing health care right now. When they close the ERs to walk-in traffic and open up "free" clinics, that bill is going to be pretty high even with rationing.

We could absorb the costs of illegal immigration and the more or less random legal immigration during the economic boom times but we won't be able to do it under a socialized government. Labor will contract and low skill workers with little English will be pushed out of the market. Legal immigrants looking to start businesses in the U.S. may instead end up competing for higher wage company jobs.

The Obama administration will almost have to examine unpopular utilitarian measures to prop up his socialized economic vision.So we kill immigration - rather than universal health care? :confused: Illegal aliens are a separate issue from immigrants. I'm sick of the way the left tries to soften how they are portrayed in peoples minds calling them "undocumented workers" when I'm the one who is an undocumented worker. I was born here. They are illegal invaders and aliens.

PoliCon
03-06-2009, 12:57 PM
I am not for an isolationist policy, necessarily, but I do think that the inscription on the Statue of Liberty should be scrubbed and that we should only allow people to immigrate here who will become productive members of our society.. No more diseased or old or non-working.. No more senior citizens coming here to retire unless they can prove that they have their own means of subsistence-or more accurately that they can prove they won't be sucking off of a system that they didn't pay into.

We have enough poor and tired and huddled masses-now we need producers and providers. It's getting to the point where the number of people taking from the system is overpowering those paying into the system, and this has to be curtailed.. Europe is quickly reaching this point with all of its unaffordable entitlements and government provided services.. We should learn from their mistakes and not follow blindly in their footsteps.. Nothing about Europe's governing is appealing to America, and we should remain free and strong, not morons longing for a better way, ignoring the lessons learned from those who have already failed at the programs that we see as so enticing..

I think we need to stop immigration for a few years and encourage procreation, just as other countries have done.. We're relying on immigrants to fill jobs that require skill and degrees, and this isn't healthy for any country.. We're bringing people here more and more who don't share our values and world view as Americans, and that's why we have an affirmative action hire ruining our country right now, pandering to the Arabs and driving the stock market down 3000 points in 40 days with his socialist policies..
The answer is not to stop immigration it's to dismantle the welfare state.

Gingersnap
03-06-2009, 01:11 PM
So we kill immigration - rather than universal health care? :confused: Illegal aliens are a separate issue from immigrants. I'm sick of the way the left tries to soften how they are portrayed in peoples minds calling them "undocumented workers" when I'm the one who is an undocumented worker. I was born here. They are illegal invaders and aliens.

The politicians want universal health care to mask the costs of treating illegal aliens and their families. They aren't going to give that up without a hellacious fight. With the number of white collar job losses going on right now, importing immigrant labor into the tech and health care sectors is going to become a toxic issue. Paying an Indian several thousand dollars less than than you would pay an American for the same tech job isn't going to be seen a cost-effective, it will be seen as unpatriotic.

At various times, we have restricted legal immigration and cracked down on illegal immigration before.

stsinner
03-06-2009, 01:38 PM
The answer is not to stop immigration it's to dismantle the welfare state.

That would be the biggest step in the right direction, and then we would need to tackle illegal immigration.

PoliCon
03-06-2009, 01:38 PM
The politicians want universal health care to mask the costs of treating illegal aliens and their families. They aren't going to give that up without a hellacious fight. Then we give them that fight. :mad:



With the number of white collar job losses going on right now, importing immigrant labor into the tech and health care sectors is going to become a toxic issue. Paying an Indian several thousand dollars less than than you would pay an American for the same tech job isn't going to be seen a cost-effective, it will be seen as unpatriotic.

At various times, we have restricted legal immigration and cracked down on illegal immigration before.

Ginger love - we don't need to restrict legal immigration in this case - the market will bare it out. I'm already less inclined to use a business if the person(s) employed there can barely speak the language. When I call customer service and I get India - I ask for an American - you can do that you know. We can do this ourselves. When demand is down - immigration will fall. EVEN SO - I'm okay with SLOWING immigration. I am whole heartedly against STOPPING IT.

PoliCon
03-06-2009, 01:40 PM
That would be the biggest step in the right direction, and then we would need to tackle illegal immigration.

The way to end illegal immigration is to make it too damn expensive to higher illegals. We need more raids by ICE and heavy fines for those who hire illegals.

Gingersnap
03-06-2009, 01:44 PM
The answer is not to stop immigration it's to dismantle the welfare state.

Does it look like we're going to get to dismantle the Welfare State any time soon? I'm all for letting the markets decide and ending entitlements. I just don't think that's going to happen within the next 4 years while the socialism/utilitarianism agenda plays out.

PoliCon
03-06-2009, 01:53 PM
Does it look like we're going to get to dismantle the Welfare State any time soon? I'm all for letting the markets decide and ending entitlements. I just don't think that's going to happen within the next 4 years while the socialism/utilitarianism agenda plays out.

It won't unless we get up off our asses - make our selves heard - and fight these bastards.

Sonnabend
03-06-2009, 03:54 PM
Hey Hugh, been down to the recruiting office yet?

stsinner
03-06-2009, 08:00 PM
The way to end illegal immigration is to make it too damn expensive to higher illegals. We need more raids by ICE and heavy fines for those who hire illegals.


I agree, but we also need to do the common sense thing that our Socialist government is not allowing us to do-enforce our damned laws!! So far, I've seen two Border Patrol Officers go to jail for shooting a drug dealer and one rancher get slapped with, I believe, an $80k fine for detaining illegals on his damned property! That's treasonous on the part of the government!
We need to make it illegal to rent to them (deemed unconstitutional everywhere it's been tried), and we need to make it illegal to hire them, and we need to make it policy that as soon as they're identified, no matter the identifying agency, they are arrested, not sent on their way becuase it's a Federal and not a state law they're breaking. They're dirty criminals, no different than the deadbeat dads we throw in jail all the time or the white-collar swindler that cheats his company out of millions.. They cost us in so many ways by the very act of being a crimigrant-our car insurance rates are higher due to the risk of being hit by their uninsured asses, our property insurance is higher due to the increased crime rates where they reside, our health care is driven up almost solely by the numbers of crimigrants that get free care due to being uninsured, and our wages are driven down because they are taking jobs that used to pay good money. They are criminals the second they step over that border illegally, plain and simple-words have meanings, and illegal act=criminal, I don't care how inane the bleeding heart liberals see it.. The crimes committed are many-breaking and entering (into our country), theft (abusing government services), tax evasion, strong-arm robbery (demanding a mortgage or else a racism lawsuit), and on and on.. They are costing our country dearly, and they need to be dealt with, not appeased.

I was in the US Army for 8 years, and looking at this country today, with it's affirmative action hire, racist, anti-American President, the illegal immigrant infestation and refusal of our elected and appointed officials to crack down on them, the sheer corruption in our government, from Blagovich to Burris to the 5 tax cheats Obama has put up for appointment after a simple, "Sorry," ----after all this sadness and abuse of the hard work of our forefathers, I wouldn't serve in our military today if asked, because I'm disgusted by this country and the f-ing sheeple that won't get off their asses and take it back and do the right thing to preserve America as the framers of our Constitution intended and fought to leave us. Americans today are just so fat, dumb and happy that they can't be bothered by paying attention to what the government is doing to us, from eroding our Second Amendment rights to stealing our money from us by the billions and giving it to losers who partake in illicit sex in Africa and get AIDS...

If you haven't seen it yet and you have a strong stomach, watch How to Destroy America. (http://usawakeup.org/HowToDestroyAmerica.htm) Be prepared to get mad.

Hugh Lincoln
03-07-2009, 03:13 PM
Okay....here's the deal.

You pick a soldier and tell them that, since you are signing up to fight,you being a conscientious, patriotic American and all,. who thinks that all legal immigration should end , they can go home.

Care to put your money where that big, fat mouth is?

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. You support illegal immigration because there are some illegals who joined the military? That's like saying you support the convict population because some of them are also military.

Hugh Lincoln
03-07-2009, 03:15 PM
Hey Hugh, been down to the recruiting office yet?

?

One can only oppose out-of-control immigration if they're in the military?

Again, you're just not making any sense here.

I've seen some weird baiting, but this has to be the weirdest.

Sonnabend
03-07-2009, 04:59 PM
I'm not sure what you're getting at here. You support illegal immigration because there are some illegals who joined the military? Hugh, you just proved that you are six kinds of idiot.

Go back and read the article again.


In Los Angeles, Army and Marine recruiters say 50 percent of enlistees are not citizens, but so-called green card troops.Green card = LEGAL IMMIGRANTS

Need glasses?

Hugh Lincoln
03-08-2009, 01:30 PM
Here is an alien who died fighting with the U.S. military. He wasn't doing it because he loved and was loyal to the United States:

http://asmba.typepad.com/veterans/2007/05/immigrant_soldi.html

For some, citizenship is less important than economic opportunity. Sergio Diaz Sr. says his son, Specialist Sergio Diaz Varela, 21, had few prospects when he graduated from Narbonne High School in Lomita, Calif. There weren't many other options, so he enlisted...someday he hoped to have a well-paid job in the States, as a full-fledged citizen...he wanted to buy his mother a house in Mexico. That dream ended when a roadside bomb in Ramadi killed him. In December, he was buried in Mexico, outside Guadalajara. At first, his mother did not want the American flag draped over the coffin, but she relented under pressure from relatives.

In the waning days of the Roman Empire, there were plenty of men who fought with the Roman military. But they were far from loyal to Rome -- often they were conscripted. Or if not that, simply taking the opportunity for wages.

There's a big difference between donning a uniform for the cash and to defend a land and people you love.

Sonnabend
03-08-2009, 01:52 PM
There's a big difference between donning a uniform for the cash and to defend a land and people you love. So tell us, Hugh..since you are so keen to dismiss the service of others

Where'd YOU serve?.

Hugh Lincoln
03-08-2009, 02:27 PM
You're not meeting my argument. You're saying that illegals or other foreigners joining the U.S. military is proof that immigration is good. I'm saying it's not proof.

Having military service is great, but it doesn't give you the excuse to run away from a fight.

FlaGator
03-08-2009, 05:53 PM
You're not meeting my argument. You're saying that illegals or other foreigners joining the U.S. military is proof that immigration is good. I'm saying it's not proof.

Having military service is great, but it doesn't give you the excuse to run away from a fight.

Where did your ancestors immigrate from?

PoliCon
03-08-2009, 07:39 PM
There's only two things I hate in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch.

Sonnabend
03-09-2009, 04:30 AM
You're not meeting my argument. You're saying that illegals or other foreigners joining the U.S. military is proof that immigration is good. I'm saying it's not proof. And you are an idiot who cant read. I was talking about LEGAL immigrants

Gingersnap
03-09-2009, 09:03 AM
And you are an idiot who cant read. I was talking about LEGAL immigrants

L.A. isn't representative of the rest of the United States in terms of demographics, immigration status, or military recruitment. The issues here are much, much broader than the experience of one city.

Sonnabend
03-09-2009, 01:56 PM
When I get home tonight, I'm going to discuss our situation for poor demented Hugh over there.

How LEGAL immigration has enriched Australia's shores....and I'll start with Victor Chang.

Illegal immigrants? Different story.

Shannon
03-09-2009, 02:10 PM
There's only two things I hate in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch.

I hate the Dutch too.:p

Seriously people, let's stop trying so hard to be politically correct and look at the situation for what it is. Do we really need more tired, poor, hungry people in this country? We can't fix everything...as evidenced by our current economic state.