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gator
03-02-2009, 06:45 PM
I have several reasons why I am not a Republican anymore. Here is one of them. The head of the RNC (Michael Steele) has gone on record supporting an assault weapons ban.

These turkeys running the Republican Party don't have a cue, do they?


http://www.issues2000.org/Domestic/Michael_Steele_Gun_Control.htm

Michael Steele on Gun Control


Q: Your views on gun control?

A: My views are pretty much in line with the governor's. I grew up under some of the strictest gun control laws in the country. You can have all the gun control laws in the country, but if you don't enforce them, people are going to find a way to protect themselves. We need to recognize that bad people are doing bad things with these weapons. It's not the law-abiding citizens, it's not the person who uses it as a hobby.

Q: Should people have access to buy assault weapons?

A: Society should draw lines. What do you need an assault weapon for, if you're going hunting? That's overkill. But I don't think that means you go to a total ban for those who want to use gun for skeet shooting or hunting or things like that But what's the point of passing gun laws if we're not going to enforce them? If you want to talk about gun control, that's where you need to start. We've got 300 gun laws on the books right now. At the end of the day, it's about how we enforce the law.

Source: Washington Post interview Oct 16, 2006

scd1008
03-02-2009, 06:51 PM
Went to renew my Drivers License in December.
Asked me about political party.
What the hell does that have to do with a Driver License ?
Go figure...........
Anyhow, changed my registration from R to I.
I have had enough of the Republicans.
Hope the enjoy their golf and country clubs.

PoliCon
03-02-2009, 06:52 PM
I notice your ignoring the rest of the statement -
what's the point of passing gun laws if we're not going to enforce them? If you want to talk about gun control, that's where you need to start. We've got 300 gun laws on the books right now. At the end of the day, it's about how we enforce the law.

BadCat
03-02-2009, 06:56 PM
I've about had it with Mr. Steele. After what he said about Rush Limbaugh, I think he's just a black RINO.

patriot45
03-02-2009, 07:08 PM
My buddy at the gun shop accross the street is making a bundle right now! He can't keep ammo or any black rifles on the shelf!

You can brand me a Conservative! I like my "assault" rifles!

gator
03-02-2009, 07:16 PM
I notice your ignoring the rest of the statement -

You moron. How come everything you say when you post shows your ignorance? You are a great example of a weak minded dickhead that still supports the Republican Party. Steele used the no brainer statement about enforcing the existing laws to cover up the fact he does not understand the right to keep and bear arms. If you look at what I bolded you see that the jerkoff thinks is made for hunters.

You are a great example of the stupid people that Eric Holder is trying to reach with his claim that we need another Assault Weapons Ban in order to stop violence in Mexico.

No wonder this country is in deep do-do with idiots like you justifying the Liberal NeoCons. Enjoy the Republican Party. Idiots seem to flock together.

gator
03-02-2009, 07:20 PM
My buddy at the gun shop accross the street is making a bundle right now! He can't keep ammo or any black rifles on the shelf!

You can brand me a Conservative! I like my "assault" rifles!

You should have gone to the Tampa gunshow on Saturday. It was a mad house. There were at least twice as many people as I have seen before. Everything was over priced and it was hetic at the ammo vendors. I bought the only AR-15 upper for sale in the whole show for a high price and I had a dozen people offer to buy it from me before I left.

gator
03-02-2009, 07:22 PM
I've about had it with Mr. Steele. After what he said about Rush Limbaugh, I think he's just a black RINO.

Steele and most other Republicans just don't get it. They think the party will become stronger if it becomes more like the Democrats and be more Liberal.

FeebMaster
03-02-2009, 07:28 PM
I notice your ignoring the rest of the statement -

That doesn't make it any better.

BadCat
03-02-2009, 07:44 PM
Steele and most other Republicans just don't get it. They think the party will become stronger if it becomes more like the Democrats and be more Liberal.

I agree with you on that.

This "reach across the aisle" and "bipartisanship" crap....I've had it with that.
Those Dims, Libs, Socialists are our sworn enemies and we shouldn't even be talking to them.

Goldwater
03-02-2009, 07:46 PM
I've about had it with Mr. Steele. After what he said about Rush Limbaugh, I think he's just a black RINO.

He is the first in a line of affirmative action candidates the GOP will be putting forward in some attempt to beat Obama at a game he created.

gator
03-02-2009, 07:53 PM
I agree with you on that.

This "reach across the aisle" and "bipartisanship" crap....I've had it with that.
Those Dims, Libs, Socialists are our sworn enemies and we shouldn't even be talking to them.

What gets me is all the goddamn newly righteous Republicans who voted against Obama's spending plan. Where were they during the six years when they controlled the government and the deficit increased to almost ten trillion and the annual budget increased one trillion a year? They were passing every spending program you can think of and putting all their pork projects in the budget.

The Republicans are almost as worthless as the Democrats.

PoliCon
03-02-2009, 08:04 PM
You moron. How come everything you say when you post shows your ignorance? You are a great example of a weak minded dickhead that still supports the Republican Party. Steele used the no brainer statement about enforcing the existing laws to cover up the fact he does not understand the right to keep and bear arms. If you look at what I bolded you see that the jerkoff thinks is made for hunters.

You are a great example of the stupid people that Eric Holder is trying to reach with his claim that we need another Assault Weapons Ban in order to stop violence in Mexico.

No wonder this country is in deep do-do with idiots like you justifying the Liberal NeoCons. Enjoy the Republican Party. Idiots seem to flock together.

Listen shit head - I'm NOT a republican. I support which ever candidate is best for the office - and not a particular party. I however find it disingenuous to dig up something from nearly 10 years ago - taking it out of context - and throwing it in peoples faces saying: HERE. This is the proof. You wanna go after Steele - go after him on what's going on NOW - what he's saying NOW - what he's doing NOW. If you wanna dig up shit from a decade ago - go be a democrat you racist piece of shit. I happen to agree with the point Mr. Steele made in his quote - we don't need any more laws on the books. We need to enforce the ones we already have.

As for you leaving the republican party - by all means do. The last thing we need as conservatives labor to take back control of the GOP - and the congress is idiot white supremacists like you confusing the issues with your bullshit opinions.

PoliCon
03-02-2009, 08:05 PM
That doesn't make it any better.

doesn't it? Enforce the laws that are on the books to hell with making new ones doesn't make it better?? :confused:

FlaGator
03-02-2009, 08:06 PM
Listen shit head - I'm NOT a republican. I support which ever candidate is best for the office - and not a particular party. I however find it disingenuous to dig up something from nearly 10 years ago - taking it out of context - and throwing it in peoples faces saying: HERE. This is the proof. You wanna go after Steele - go after him on what's going on NOW - what he's saying NOW - what he's doing NOW. If you wanna dig up shit from a decade ago - go be a democrat you racist piece of shit. I happen to agree with the point Mr. Steele made in his quote - we don't need any more laws on the books. We need to enforce the ones we already have.

As for you leaving the republican party - by all means do. The last thing we need as conservatives labor to take back control of the GOP - and the congress is idiot white supremacists like you confusing the issues with your bullshit opinions.

Keep in mind Gator was pro Ron Paul... that should tell you all you need to know.

Goldwater
03-02-2009, 08:09 PM
Keep in mind Gator was pro Ron Paul... that should tell you all you need to know.

As opposed to the people who were pro John McCain?

PoliCon
03-02-2009, 08:09 PM
What gets me is all the goddamn newly righteous Republicans who voted against Obama's spending plan. Where were they during the six years when they controlled the government and the deficit increased to almost ten trillion and the annual budget increased one trillion a year? They were passing every spending program you can think of and putting all their pork projects in the budget.

The Republicans are almost as worthless as the Democrats.
You seriously don't have a clue how the government works do you?

PoliCon
03-02-2009, 08:10 PM
Keep in mind Gator was pro Ron Paul... that should tell you all you need to know.

pro ron paul? Gator is pro david duke. :rolleyes:

PoliCon
03-02-2009, 08:11 PM
As opposed to the people who were pro John McCain?
Who was for McCain? Most of us voted for him because it was better than voting for Barry. And those of you who didn't vote for McCain - remember - you had a chance to prevent this. YOU are to blame for what Barry is doing as much as Barry himself.

Goldwater
03-02-2009, 08:12 PM
Who was for McCain? Most of us voted for him because it was better than voting for Barry. And those of you who didn't vote for McCain - remember - you had a chance to prevent this. YOU are to blame for what Barry is doing as much as Barry himself.

Nein, I don't think so Tim. :D

PoliCon
03-02-2009, 08:15 PM
Nein, I don't think so Tim. :D
Yep. completely.

Full-Auto
03-02-2009, 08:25 PM
I voted for McNasty... just so I could reserve the right to bitch about the next 8 years.

PoliCon
03-02-2009, 08:27 PM
I voted for McNasty... just so I could reserve the right to bitch about the next 8 years.

and you can bitch. You have that right. Those that voted for Barry - in actuality or substance - can chew ass until the next election.

wilbur
03-02-2009, 08:51 PM
Win, win, win.

A related question would be:

Why are the Republicans voting against Obama's spending plan?

I can answer it with a word and two numbers: Sucker, 2010, 2012.



The Republicans are worse than the Democrats. At least the Democrats are honest about their agenda. I'd rather have someone tell me that they're going to spend me into oblivion - then do it, than someone tell me they're going to save me a mountain of cash then surprise me by pissing it all away, borrowing money I don't have, then sticking my kids with the bill. I'll give this to the Democrats - at least they took the White House and the Congress this year by campaigning on real issues like socialized medicine and entitlement programs. Bush was whoring for votes in 2004 with gay marriage. :rolleyes:

The Republicans want a well-armed, well-informed, freedom-loving, anti-waste voting public that holds its officials to their word about as much as the Democrats do. They just lie about it which makes them worse.

I approve of this message. :D

PoliCon
03-02-2009, 08:58 PM
Look at the bright side. The Congress Republicans are starting to vote against spending bills now. :eek:

Yup. We still need a serious house cleaning - and those that aren't thrown out need their feet held to the fire. But it's as much our fault as anything - we need to keep in close contact with them and their offices and remind them that WE are their bosses and they do OUR bidding. We - the American people - have abdicated our civic duty for far too long.

patriot45
03-02-2009, 09:02 PM
Yup. We still need a serious house cleaning - and those that aren't thrown out need their feet held to the fire. But it's as much our fault as anything - we need to keep in close contact with them and their offices and remind them that WE are their bosses and they do OUR bidding. We - the American people - have abdicated our civic duty for far too long.

Gator is right, republicans are so weak they will bend with the wind. There are some true conservatives out there that have no love for lib values, but they have no place in power but they do have a voice that gets heard. Just to name a few, Walter Williams, Herman Cain, Rush and Thomas Sowell!

FeebMaster
03-02-2009, 09:09 PM
doesn't it? Enforce the laws that are on the books to hell with making new ones doesn't make it better?? :confused:

First of all, I question the mental capacity of anyone who claims the current laws aren't enforced.

Second, I don't want the current laws enforced. I want them repealed.

Someone who wants to keep the current laws and maybe pass a few more? Forget about it.

PoliCon
03-02-2009, 09:12 PM
First of all, I question the mental capacity of anyone who claims the current laws aren't enforced.

Second, I don't want the current laws enforced. I want them repealed.

Someone who wants to keep the current laws and maybe pass a few more? Forget about it.where does he say he wants more laws?

FeebMaster
03-02-2009, 09:18 PM
where does he say he wants more laws?

"A: Society should draw lines. What do you need an assault weapon for, if you're going hunting?"

How do you think he means to draw those lines? Shunning?

PoliCon
03-02-2009, 09:21 PM
"A: Society should draw lines. What do you need an assault weapon for, if you're going hunting?"

How do you think he means to draw those lines? Shunning?
1 - he's not saying we need more.
2 - he says a SOCIETY should draw the lines.

context is everything.

Mythic
03-02-2009, 09:34 PM
I haven't read the whole conversation yet but here are my two cents:

Hope the enjoy their golf and country clubs.
I hate golf and I am too poor to be part of some country club.


You moron. How come everything you say when you post shows your ignorance? You are a great example of a weak minded dickhead that still supports the Republican Party.
What a show of intelligence and vocabulary there. You sure did make your point!

Steele used the no brainer statement about enforcing the existing laws to cover up the fact he does not understand the right to keep and bear arms. If you look at what I bolded you see that the jerkoff thinks is made for hunters.
Woa there! Just because one republican thinks that there should be no right to arms does not mean they all do! Just because you disagree with one republican on a certain point or even many does not mean you should just quit! You dont have to agree with everyone or everything.


You are a great example of the stupid people that Eric Holder is trying to reach with his claim that we need another Assault Weapons Ban in order to stop violence in Mexico.

No wonder this country is in deep do-do with idiots like you justifying the Liberal NeoCons. Enjoy the Republican Party. Idiots seem to flock together.
Again, you have proved your intelligence with your enormous vocabulary. Would you rather be a Democrat or a Republican? Those are the two major parties. If you choose to be independent you are either foolish or unable to make up your mind. There is not going to be an "independent candidate." Even if one runs he or she will either lean left or right. Join the pary whose platform you agree most with. The Republican party is against banning guns. So this entire argument you are making because of one single opinion is just absurd. It astonishes me.


At least the Democrats are honest about their agenda.
That was pretty funny.

FeebMaster
03-02-2009, 09:43 PM
1 - he's not saying we need more.

Questionable. Even within the context of the rest of his quote.


2 - he says a SOCIETY should draw the lines.

Society has no business drawing those lines. Even if they did, how are they going to do it?

PoliCon
03-02-2009, 10:31 PM
Questionable. Even within the context of the rest of his quote. Then maybe you might want to check the whole context of the conversation then :p doesn't pay to assume without checking.




Society has no business drawing those lines. Even if they did, how are they going to do it? Oh so the nation cannot decide? We the people cannot say that feebmaster has no business owning a howitzer? :rolleyes: You like the idea of say Bill Gates raising his own private army?

gator
03-02-2009, 10:33 PM
. Would you rather be a Democrat or a Republican?

How about neither fucking party? It is either Liberal Light or Liberal Heavy. Both will destroy this country.

Bush's Republican Party refused to seal the borders, ridiculed the real Conservatives for being against the Illegals, increased the annual Federal budget a trillion dollars a year, ran up a ten trillion dollar deficit, started a war with Iraq that had nothing to do with our security, sided with DC over Heller and generally turned a blind eye to any real reform in the government. I won’t even mention the massive aid to Africa and the hundreds of billions of wasted money spent on worthless entitlement programs. John McCain was the most Liberal Republican in the Senate and he was elected by the Republicans in the Primaries to be the Presidential nominee.

Only weak minded people like you and this PoliCon kid still loves the Republican Party. You are the NeoCons that have screwed America big time. I helped you do it for too many years and I was stupid. It is time you got your head out of your ass.

PoliCon
03-02-2009, 10:35 PM
only a dumb fuck thinks that the dems are liberal - or that liberal is a bad thing. :rolleyes: Then again - we're talking about an asshole who thinks Israel is pulling our strings. :rolleyes:

PoliCon
03-02-2009, 10:38 PM
Gator you better wake up and pay attention. I'm not a republican. I've said as much here on this site repeatedly. I left the republican party about 7 years ago. I did so A - because I despise the way that they cozied up to K street and how the republicans in the senate went DC native on us. I'd LOVE to be able to re-register as a republican, but that's not going to happen without a change in the party.

gator
03-02-2009, 10:43 PM
Gator is right, republicans are so weak they will bend with the wind. There are some true conservatives out there that have no love for lib values, but they have no place in power but they do have a voice that gets heard. Just to name a few, Walter Williams, Herman Cain, Rush and Thomas Sowell!

The real Conservatives have no real leader now and that is why we are hurting. The Liberal side of the Republican Party like Steele are trying to make the Republicans Democrat Light and that ain't gonna work.

I think we are pretty well screwed. The Democrats will use their time in power to make sure they don't lose another election for the next 50 years. They will do it by turning the 51% against the 49%. They will promise to steal from the 49% and give to the 51%. This recent spending package is full of that. Weak minded Conservatives will not like it but they won't really fight against it. Some of the NeoCons will actually like what they see from Obama but they will never say so in public.

PoliCon
03-02-2009, 10:45 PM
They will promise to seal from the 49% and give to the 51% well if all they want to do is seal . . . . . DUMBASS. :rolleyes:

gator
03-02-2009, 10:46 PM
Gator you better wake up and pay attention. I'm not a republican. I've said as much here on this site repeatedly. I left the republican party about 7 years ago. I did so A - because I despise the way that they cozied up to K street and how the republicans in the senate went DC native on us. I'd LOVE to be able to re-register as a republican, but that's not going to happen without a change in the party.

I don't know what the hell you are. Your fucking stupid ass posts on this site indicates to me that you are a weak minded stupid little kid that doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground. Go fuck yourself. Your opinion is worthless. You have no convictions on anything of substance.

PoliCon
03-02-2009, 10:47 PM
I don't know what the hell you are. Your fucking stupid ass posts on this site indicates to me that you are a weak minded stupid little kid that doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground. Go fuck yourself. Your opinion is worthless. You have no convictions on anything of substance.:D that's comedy gold that is!!

gator
03-02-2009, 10:51 PM
Keep in mind Gator was pro Ron Paul... that should tell you all you need to know.

If you remember correctly (and I know you do) I was reluctant Ron Paul simply because he was the only person running that actually understood that we were in deep shit.

I think I was proven right on that one, wasn't I?

PoliCon
03-02-2009, 10:59 PM
If you remember correctly (and I know you do) I was reluctant Ron Paul simply because he was the only person running that actually understood that we were in deep shit.

I think I was proven right on that one, wasn't I? Nuff said. :rolleyes:

Pray tell oh enlightened one - who would have made a better candidate? :rolleyes:

FeebMaster
03-02-2009, 11:00 PM
Then maybe you might want to check the whole context of the conversation then :p doesn't pay to assume without checking.

I'm not assuming. I just disagree.


Oh so the nation cannot decide? We the people cannot say that feebmaster has no business owning a howitzer? :rolleyes:

You're damn right the nation can't decide. You the people have no business dictating to me or anyone else what arms we choose to own.


You like the idea of say Bill Gates raising his own private army?

Doesn't bother me.

PoliCon
03-02-2009, 11:05 PM
I'm not assuming. I just disagree.



You're damn right the nation can't decide. You the people have no business dictating to me or anyone else what arms we choose to own.



Doesn't bother me. You are a sick fuck. :rolleyes: The people have EVERY right to say I don't want that fucking psychopath feebmaster or any other deranged and unbalanced idiot owning a howitzer.

Mythic
03-02-2009, 11:05 PM
How about neither fucking party? It is either Liberal Light or Liberal Heavy. Both will destroy this country.

Bush's Republican Party refused to seal the borders, ridiculed the real Conservatives for being against the Illegals, increased the annual Federal budget a trillion dollars a year, ran up a ten trillion dollar deficit, started a war with Iraq that had nothing to do with our security, sided with DC over Heller and generally turned a blind eye to any real reform in the government. I won’t even mention the massive aid to Africa and the hundreds of billions of wasted money spent on worthless entitlement programs. John McCain was the most Liberal Republican in the Senate and he was elected by the Republicans in the Primaries to be the Presidential nominee.

Only weak minded people like you and this PoliCon kid still loves the Republican Party. You are the NeoCons that have screwed America big time. I helped you do it for too many years and I was stupid. It is time you got your head out of your ass.
I am a conservative republican. I never really liked McCain, but compared to Obama he was the best thing I could hope for. PoliCon isn't even a Republican he told you that already. Developing reading skills is important.
The republican platform is still conservative. Why would you let liberal republicans take over the party? Why not speak out from within the republican party and say "This is not what we are about!" I dont agree with what you coined "Liberal Light". I want conservative. There is currently no conservative party.

Only Republicans can vote in Republican primaries. By leaving the party, you will no longer be able to vote for that strong conservative republican that makes it in there. If all conservatives leave the party and abandon it to become independents the democrats will just keep winning...

PoliCon
03-02-2009, 11:10 PM
Only Republicans can vote in Republican primaries. By leaving the party, you will no longer be able to vote for that strong conservative republican that makes it in there. If all conservatives leave the party and abandon it to become independents the democrats will just keep winning... And here we get to a huge part of the problem. By the time the PA primary rolls around - the candidate is already chosen. :mad: Doesn't make a bit of difference if I am a conservative republican or not when I don't get a say at all in selecting the nominee. :mad:

lacarnut
03-02-2009, 11:16 PM
Only weak minded people like you and this PoliCon kid still loves the Republican Party. You are the NeoCons that have screwed America big time. I helped you do it for too many years and I was stupid. It is time you got your head out of your ass.

You need to get your head out of your ass and face reality. Even if everything you say is true, it's in the past and their is not one damn thing we can do about it. What are we going to do in the future to ensure our survival? Beating up on Repubs., neocons sure as hell is not going to help.

What's your plan for dealing with the commie in the White House. That's what I am talking about. He is going to fuck this country up so bad. Are you too stupid to not realize that. He going to raise your taxes sky high, repeal welfare reform, pass many social programs, pass gun laws, throw the constitution in the trash can, turn our sovereignty over to the UN, pass socialized health care, etc., etc.

Making a big deal over an unelected RNC official attacking Rush or a statement about automatic guns concerns me about as much as a pimple on an elephant's ass. Steele is a figurehead and if he keeps shooting off his mouth he will wind up off the Repub. payroll. I am more worried about the economy going into a depression rather what this dumb ass states.

I don't love the Repub. party and I don't think anyone that calls themselves a conservative is pleased that they have f. up this country from soup to nuts with their fiscal irresponsibility. So you need get off your high horse and get your feet on the ground because playing the blame game of what happened in the past is not going to do us one damn bit of good.

McCain was a piss poor choice for Prez but he would have better than Obama. I voted for McCain but I sure as hell did not like it. I picked the lesser of 2 evils. Now you and I will have to live with at least 4 years of Obama screwing up this country. My only hope is that conservatives, independents and people like you will give the Repubs another chance in 2010 to elect Repubs that will be able to stop the Obama freight-train.

FeebMaster
03-02-2009, 11:16 PM
You are a sick fuck. :rolleyes: The people have EVERY right to say I don't want that fucking psychopath feebmaster or any other deranged and unbalanced idiot owning a howitzer.

lol. Remember you said that when society decides to disarm you.

wilbur
03-02-2009, 11:41 PM
What's your plan for dealing with the commie in the White House. That's what I am talking about. He is going to fuck this country up so bad. Are you too stupid to not realize that. He going to raise your taxes sky high, repeal welfare reform, pass many social programs, pass gun laws, throw the constitution in the trash can, turn our sovereignty over to the UN, pass socialized health care, etc., etc.


In an alternate world where McCain won the election, I think this quote would probably still apply.

Thats the problem.

PoliCon
03-03-2009, 12:03 AM
lol. Remember you said that when society decides to disarm you.

there are arms and then there is artillery. One is protected by the 2nd amendment - the other is not.

PoliCon
03-03-2009, 12:05 AM
. . . . be able to stop the Obama freight-train. gravy train is more like it!;)

lacarnut
03-03-2009, 12:20 AM
In an alternate world where McCain won the election, I think this quote would probably still apply.

Thats the problem.

I wholeheartly disagree.

djones520
03-03-2009, 12:22 AM
I wholeheartly disagree.

As do I. McCain is definitely a bit to the left on a number of issues, but when it comes to fiscal responsibility the man is nearly without reproach. Don't expect some people here to ever acknowledge that though. The "Hate McCain" syndrome kinda baffles me sometimes.

PoliCon
03-03-2009, 12:23 AM
I wholeheartly disagree.

Working against/with a democratic congress - wilbur is nearly right McCain could have proven just as destructive - worse even in that it would take longer for conservatism to get a voice in the GOP again . . . . .

FeebMaster
03-03-2009, 12:27 AM
there are arms and then there is artillery. One is protected by the 2nd amendment - the other is not.

Strictly speaking, neither is protected by the 2nd amendment.

I'd argue both are protected by the 9th, but both parties hate and ignore that one even more than the 2nd.

PoliCon
03-03-2009, 12:34 AM
Strictly speaking, neither is protected by the 2nd amendment.

I'd argue both are protected by the 9th, but both parties hate and ignore that one even more than the 2nd. Where in the natural rights of man do you find enshrined the right to own artillery? Or the right to build a private army?

gator
03-03-2009, 07:31 AM
What's your plan for dealing with the commie in the White House. That's what I am talking about. He is going to fuck this country up so bad. Are you too stupid to not realize that. He going to raise your taxes sky high, repeal welfare reform, pass many social programs, pass gun laws, throw the constitution in the trash can, turn our sovereignty over to the UN, pass socialized health care, etc., etc.



Are you dense?

Replacing one failure with another is not a solution to anything. The best we will get out of having a Republican in the White House is a slight slowing down of the rate of Socialism and big spending, which will solve nothing. McCain would have been happy with a three trillion dollar a year budget, not sealing the border, compromising with the Liberals and bailouts left and right. McCain would have continued the perpetual war in the Middle East and would have gone along with the NeoCon policies that failed us in the first place.

I have no "plan". I have said this many times and I will say it again; we are beyond the point where the electoral process will restore the Constitution and the Republic. The Democrats are hell bent on raiding the treasury and transferring the money to their sleazy special interest groups. The Republicans are only marginally better. Not enough to make any real difference.

The sooner the Conservatives in this country understand that the Republican Party has failed them big time the sooner we can get on with the hard business of doing what is necessary to restore the Constitution.

gator
03-03-2009, 07:36 AM
Making a big deal over an unelected RNC official attacking Rush or a statement about automatic guns concerns me about as much as a pimple on an elephant's ass. Steele is a figurehead and if he keeps shooting off his mouth he will wind up off the Repub. payroll. I am more worried about the economy going into a depression rather what this dumb ass states.



Some of us are concerned about the head of the Republican Party not understanding the right to keep and bear arms. You may not be concerned but some of us are, after all it is a Constitutional right.

By the way, in Liberal talk "assault weapons" are any semi automatic rifle, not just automatic.

FeebMaster
03-03-2009, 07:53 AM
Where in the natural rights of man do you find enshrined the right to own artillery? Or the right to build a private army?

The right to own property. The freedom of association.

Not popular rights among Democrats and Republicans, certainly, but there they are.

Honestly, I'm having trouble believing we're even having this discussion. There are no laws, other than a few taxes, on the books today preventing me from purchasing artillery or hiring and training men to guard, maintain, and use it. Are you saying we need some?

PoliCon
03-03-2009, 11:40 AM
The right to own property. The freedom of association.

Not popular rights among Democrats and Republicans, certainly, but there they are.

Honestly, I'm having trouble believing we're even having this discussion. There are no laws, other than a few taxes, on the books today preventing me from purchasing artillery or hiring and training men to guard, maintain, and use it. Are you saying we need some?
property rights mean that people cannot take from you what is yours - it does not give you the right to own people or to own artillery Nice thought though.:rolleyes:

lacarnut
03-03-2009, 11:56 AM
Are you dense?

Replacing one failure with another is not a solution to anything. The best we will get out of having a Republican in the White House is a slight slowing down of the rate of Socialism and big spending, which will solve nothing. McCain would have been happy with a three trillion dollar a year budget, not sealing the border, compromising with the Liberals and bailouts left and right. McCain would have continued the perpetual war in the Middle East and would have gone along with the NeoCon policies that failed us in the first place.

I have no "plan". I have said this many times and I will say it again; we are beyond the point where the electoral process will restore the Constitution and the Republic. The Democrats are hell bent on raiding the treasury and transferring the money to their sleazy special interest groups. The Republicans are only marginally better. Not enough to make any real difference.

The sooner the Conservatives in this country understand that the Republican Party has failed them big time the sooner we can get on with the hard business of doing what is necessary to restore the Constitution.

You are the dense one. You still have this backward looking mentality. Sorry but I don't. We need a conservative revolution in this country. Unlike you, I think that it is possible in 2010 to take back control of the Congress. That will at least slow down Obama's plans to tax the shit out of you. That does not concern you?. If not, you sure are narrow minded.

You have no plan. I do, elect Repub. conservatives in 2010 and work to elect Gov. Palin to the presidency in 2012. We need someone that will stand up to the special interests and bring back fiscal responsibility. Other than her and Jindal, I don't see anyone else out there that fits the bill. I sure as hell am not going to lay down and die like you. All you do is bitch and bitch. I am pessimistic about the future but if I was as pessimisitic as you I would find me another country to live in.

If you think that any party will reverse the stagnation of society today opposed to 30 or 40 years ago, you are nuts. As a result, pot is legal in CA , abortion is legal, welfare and unwed mothers are not stigmatized, crime is on the rise, religion is being attacked, politicial correctness is the norm, corporation making money are evil, homos are being passed off as the norm, Governors cater to illegals and on and on. This country has become bankrupt from a moral standpoint and now working on financial bankruptcy.

Like I said, I don't care what some pissant RNC chairman said about semi-automatic weapons. He has no power to pass any laws and if he does not shut his stupid mouth, he will be looking for another job. Rush can eat his lunch and more people listen to him than Steele. BTW, I would not be surprised on liberal talk that a pellet gun was considered an automatic weapon. I do not listen to fools like that. Even San Fran Nan put a nix on a new gun law that Obama suggested. Then there is always that DC ruling by the S.C. thingy. If I lived in a f. up city like NY or LA or Boston, I might be worried about gun laws but living in a red state, no such worries.

FeebMaster
03-03-2009, 12:00 PM
property rights mean that people cannot take from you what is yours - it does not give you the right to own people or to own artillery Nice thought though.:rolleyes:

Who said anything about owning people?

If I purchase or construct a howitzer it belongs to me. It's my property.

PoliCon
03-03-2009, 12:28 PM
Who said anything about owning people?

If I purchase or construct a howitzer it belongs to me. It's my property. You don't get it. :rolleyes: The point is that property rights are not unlimited - if they were - there would not have been an eminent domain provision allowed for by the founding fathers.

Molon Labe
03-03-2009, 12:35 PM
What gets me is all the goddamn newly righteous Republicans who voted against Obama's spending plan. Where were they during the six years when they controlled the government and the deficit increased to almost ten trillion and the annual budget increased one trillion a year? They were passing every spending program you can think of and putting all their pork projects in the budget.

The Republicans are almost as worthless as the Democrats.

They're now pretending to be "conservative" again. Really...they're just being oppositional to anything Barry passes. I agree that nothing has changed. If they were back in power right now they would be back to racking up their own versions of how the fed should spend our money.

Rebel Yell
03-03-2009, 12:45 PM
They're now pretending to be "conservative" again. Really...they're just being oppositional to anything Barry passes. I agree that nothing has changed. If they were back in power right now they would be back to racking up their own versions of how the fed should spend our money.

Exactly, and constituents will eat it up. Republicans are responsible for 40% of the earmarks in the omnibus bill. Face it people, we're fucked.

lacarnut
03-03-2009, 12:57 PM
They're now pretending to be "conservative" again. Really...they're just being oppositional to anything Barry passes. I agree that nothing has changed. If they were back in power right now they would be back to racking up their own versions of how the fed should spend our money.

So it okay with you that Obama has spent or proposed to spend in just a few weeks more than Bush spent in 8 years. That does not makes a lot of sense.

Conservatives need a good raking over the coals but to cut your nose off in spite of your face is not going to cure anything. BTW, did Bush protect this country for 7 1/2 years without another 9/11 attack? It did not happen by accident as you might well find out when Obama lets our guard down and we are once again tested. Bush spent like a drunken sailor but not anywhere what the Magic Negro and the Democratic Congress is going to do. However, keep blaming Bush. Bush is bad. Bush f. up the country from soup to nuts. That is really going to help your DUMB ASS when Obama f. it up worse with higher taxes and host of other things you won't like. But hey, keep on the bandwagon that Bush, the Repubs, neocons are bad, bad, bad. That really going to help your pocketbook, your way of life and the economy in the next 4 years. Correct.

FeebMaster
03-03-2009, 12:58 PM
You don't get it. The point is that property rights are not unlimited - if they were - there would not have been an eminent domain provision allowed for by the founding fathers.

Oh, I get it. The founding fathers got plenty of things wrong.


All this talk of artillery. I'm half tempted to buy some.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mAjWaKCY64

For it's Hi! Hi! Hee! in the field artillery!
Call out your numbers loud and strong!

Molon Labe
03-03-2009, 01:08 PM
So it okay with you that Obama has spent or proposed to spend in just a few weeks more than Bush spent in 8 years. That does not makes a lot of sense.

Yeah...you're right.....what's a few trillion dollars difference between friends. :rolleyes:

lacarnut
03-03-2009, 01:14 PM
Yeah...you're right.....what's a few trillion dollars difference between friends. :rolleyes:

I am retired and set for life so why should I care.:rolleyes: A depression and no income coming in for 10 years would be no problem for me. How about you?

Molon Labe
03-03-2009, 02:32 PM
Who said anything about owning people?

If I purchase or construct a howitzer it belongs to me. It's my property.

I'm of the opinion, if you're a law abiding citizen of a free nation....you can own any piece of combat weaponry the feds can own. So I would support you're right to own artillery if that be the case.

That hunting argument in the OP is as old as I am...and it just doesn't wash. If the founders had wanted arms to protect their hunting rights they would have said so specifically. It's not about that.

I once saw a photo of the German Nazi's standing over the bodies of some people they massacred with a caption stating...."Law abiding citizens who supported gun control".
And another where several dozen naked jewish women in a concentration camp captioned "million mom march".
That has alwas stuck with me.

Here's a history of gun control for you dimwitted idiots that think the founders just wanted to go fox hunting.

http://www.jpfo.org/images02/deathchartlg.gif

gator
03-03-2009, 03:22 PM
You are the dense one. You still have this backward looking mentality. Sorry but I don't. We need a conservative revolution in this country. Unlike you, I think that it is possible in 2010 to take back control of the Congress. That will at least slow down Obama's plans to tax the shit out of you. That does not concern you?. If not, you sure are narrow minded.

You have it half ass right. We do need a Conservative Revolution but the Republicans are not the ones with the track record to make it happen. What we need is way more than the Republican Party can deliver even on its best day. Even Ronald Reagan increased the cost of government, refused to send the Ilegals back, increased taxation and closed the Registry of Class III firearms.


You have no plan. I do, elect Repub. conservatives in 2010 and work to elect Gov. Palin to the presidency in 2012. We need someone that will stand up to the special interests and bring back fiscal responsibility. Other than her and Jindal, I don't see anyone else out there that fits the bill. I sure as hell am not going to lay down and die like you. All you do is bitch and bitch. I am pessimistic about the future but if I was as pessimisitic as you I would find me another country to live in.

Sarah Palin? You have to be shitting me. That shows me that you don’t have a clue what it will entail to have a real Conservative Revolution. Sure, she is a cute piece of Granny ass but she is no answer to restoring the Constitution and the Republic. She has a pretty strong track record of trying to raid the Federal Treasury and giving to her special interest groups. If she had any real convictions she would have turned down the stimulus package for her state but instead she jumped on it like white on rice. She had no problem with shaking down business and transferring the money to the state. Hardly Conservative principles. I won’t even mention the Israel flag she has flying in her office and how much money and how many American lives she is willing to spend to make sure the Israelis are safe.

Understanding that the existing electoral process is not going to restore the Constitution and the Republic is not lying down and dying. It is the first step to standing up to Liberals in this country and telling them that they can’t destroy us.

You are happy to slowly erode into Socialism and because of that you will help destroy this country. You mean well but you just don’t have the real convictions to understand what is going on.


If you think that any party will reverse the stagnation of society today opposed to 30 or 40 years ago, you are nuts. As a result, pot is legal in CA , abortion is legal, welfare and unwed mothers are not stigmatized, crime is on the rise, religion is being attacked, politicial correctness is the norm, corporation making money are evil, homos are being passed off as the norm, Governors cater to illegals and on and on. This country has become bankrupt from a moral standpoint and now working on financial bankruptcy.

The Republicans helped to do all those things you mentioned. I would find another party if I were you.



Like I said, I don't care what some pissant RNC chairman said about semi-automatic weapons. He has no power to pass any laws and if he does not shut his stupid mouth, he will be looking for another job. Rush can eat his lunch and more people listen to him than Steele. BTW, I would not be surprised on liberal talk that a pellet gun was considered an automatic weapon. I do not listen to fools like that. Even San Fran Nan put a nix on a new gun law that Obama suggested. Then there is always that DC ruling by the S.C. thingy. If I lived in a f. up city like NY or LA or Boston, I might be worried about gun laws but living in a red state, no such worries.

Steele is the leader in the Republican Party now. You can burry your head in the sand all you want and pretend that his left leaning tendencies don’t matter in the Republican Party but he is indicative of what is wrong with the Republicans. The Blue State Republicans have forced the Party far too Left. Weak minded Red State Republicans go along with it.

I used his stance on the AWB as an example of why the Republicans don’t have a clue. Several of the Republicans running in the Presidential Primaries last year had similar views.

patriot45
03-03-2009, 03:36 PM
The pickings are slim for us out there! Bring back the Newt and Delay!

gator
03-03-2009, 03:37 PM
I am retired and set for life so why should I care.:rolleyes: A depression and no income coming in for 10 years would be no problem for me. How about you?

I am in the same boat as you. At most only about 15% of my income is at risk due to the economy and that is pushing it. Even with a 1930s level depression I will live comfortable the rest of my life.

However, I have concerns about my children and my soon to come granddaughter. I want them to live in a free and prosperous America. It ain’t gonna happen with the way things are working now.

The Republicans and Democrats have almost assured that will not happen with their drunken sailor level of government spending. Sure, the Democrats are slightly worse than the Republicans but I have yet to hear one Republican willing to cut government spending down to about 15% of the GNP, which is where it needs to be to get us on the right track. Instead they argue with the Democrats on whether it should be 34% or 37%.

gator
03-03-2009, 03:40 PM
The pickings are slim for us out there! Bring back the Newt and Delay!

Even with them the cost of government went up each year and several worthless government agencies continued on their merry way.

We need a major reversal and nobody in public office that I know of is willing to do it.

patriot45
03-03-2009, 03:45 PM
Even with them the cost of government went up each year and several worthless government agencies continued on their merry way.

We need a major reversal and nobody in public office that I know of is willing to do it.


Well if you are right, I guess it will have to be done at the state levels. The Federal gov has increased its power far too much, the supreme court needs to start upholding the constitution and giving the states back thier rights, starting with education and so forth.

Molon Labe
03-03-2009, 03:58 PM
Even with them the cost of government went up each year and several worthless government agencies continued on their merry way.

We need a major reversal and nobody in public office that I know of is willing to do it.


If I heard one major candidate actually suggest that ending the Department of Education, Homeland Security, Interior, Energy....etc (pick one..it doesn't matter). I would have a bit more faith that they were serious conservatives.

Lars1701a
03-03-2009, 03:59 PM
When I first saw this thread my answer was: This is gator so he prolly left cause there are jews in the Republican party?

:D

gator
03-03-2009, 04:04 PM
Well if you are right, I guess it will have to be done at the state levels. The Federal gov has increased its power far too much, the supreme court needs to start upholding the constitution and giving the states back thier rights, starting with education and so forth.

Have you ever read the book “Unintended Consequences”? It actually lays out a good path to restoring our Constitution and Republic.

First we have to admit that our present electoral system is broke and can’t be fixed. That is a hard one because we have all been taught from Day One in school to respect “democracy” and the will of the people. We have to understand that the “will of the people” is destroying the country when the majority is only interested in raiding the Treasury.

The major failure of Democracy is when 51% of the people find out they can legally steal from the other 49%. We are in that mode now. The majority is also in the process of taking away Constitutional rights from the minority. We are pretty well fucked.

Another failure is that we have created a “House of Lords” with Congress. Instead of elected Representatives going to Congress to do what is best for the Republic we have people willing to sell their representation to the highest bidder. This means that laws and budget are passed without regards to the consequences. That is the main reason our spending and debt is out of control. Both political Parties are guilty.

We simply have to do better than that we want to restore the Constitution and the Republic.

We have to tear down what we have and start over. It will not be pleasant because there are far too many people with a vested interest in maintaining the status quo.

Just remember what Thomas Jefferson said:

“God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, & always well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had 13. states independent 11. years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century & a half for each state. What country before ever existed a century & a half without a rebellion? & what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon & pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it's natural manure.”

lacarnut
03-03-2009, 04:05 PM
The pickings are slim for us out there! Bring back the Newt and Delay!

When Newt left, the Repub party became a party of spineles whimps, let the liberals run roughshod over their dumb asses, spent like drunken sailors and allowed government to grow by leaps and bounds. If what's his face, the actor, had not gotten into the Repub. primaries, Newt might have jumped in and been the nominee but I doubt the outcome would have been any different. The majority of Americans wanted to kick the Repubs out of office for screwing up. Newt would be a great choice for Prez.next time around.

Rebel Yell
03-03-2009, 04:34 PM
However, I have concerns about my children and my soon to come granddaughter. I want them to live in a free and prosperous America. It ain’t gonna happen.


Fixed. We've been thinking about having a little Rebel, but I don't know now. I used to laugh at people who said this, but I don't know if I want to bring a child into this world to live in a socialist cesspool.

Shannon
03-03-2009, 05:22 PM
Fixed. We've been thinking about having a little Rebel, but I don't know now. I used to laugh at people who said this, but I don't know if I want to bring a child into this world to live in a socialist cesspool.

Don't be daft. If the conservatives don't raise children to believe in and fight for our ideals then America really is doomed.

MrsSmith
03-03-2009, 06:24 PM
Fixed. We've been thinking about having a little Rebel, but I don't know now. I used to laugh at people who said this, but I don't know if I want to bring a child into this world to live in a socialist cesspool.
People were saying exactly this when my first child was born. Everyone thought the Russians were going to start WW3 and kill us all, or we were going into a major ice age and we'd all die...yet here we are, 30+ years later, and my first kid has served in the Army, gone to college, gotten married, and is now raising his first kid. Humans really aren't in control...so we can't mess it up too badly. :)

PoliCon
03-03-2009, 07:50 PM
When Newt left, the Repub party became a party of spineles whimps, let the liberals run roughshod over their dumb asses, spent like drunken sailors and allowed government to grow by leaps and bounds. If what's his face, the actor, had not gotten into the Repub. primaries, Newt might have jumped in and been the nominee but I doubt the outcome would have been any different. The majority of Americans wanted to kick the Repubs out of office for screwing up. Newt would be a great choice for Prez.next time around.

New couldn't run because of lebal issues tied to that organization he started . . . . .

PoliCon
03-03-2009, 07:52 PM
Well if you are right, I guess it will have to be done at the state levels. The Federal gov has increased its power far too much, the supreme court needs to start upholding the constitution and giving the states back thier rights, starting with education and so forth.

why on earth would they do that when their goal seems to be the expansion of the power of the judiciary. :mad:

Lanie
03-03-2009, 09:39 PM
Okay, so Steele supports the ban. He doesn't speak for most Republicans. Meanwhile, if you choose not to ever vote Republican, it helps Democrats to win.

djones520
03-04-2009, 12:11 AM
Okay, so Steele supports the ban. He doesn't speak for most Republicans. Meanwhile, if you choose not to ever vote Republican, it helps Democrats to win.

Thats the problem with idealists. They forget about reality.

lacarnut
03-04-2009, 12:17 AM
Thats the problem with idealists. They forget about reality.

Correct :):)

lacarnut
03-04-2009, 12:21 AM
New couldn't run because of lebal issues tied to that organization he started . . . . .

I don't know of any legal issues that would prevent him from running.:confused:

FeebMaster
03-04-2009, 07:19 AM
Thats the problem with idealists. They forget about reality.

Correct :):)

Which side are the idealists? The ones who don't want big government and vote or don't vote accordingly or the ones who vote for big government and pretend that it's going to somehow magically shrink the government someday far in the future, long after we're all dead and gone?

SarasotaRepub
03-04-2009, 07:36 AM
Okay, so Steele supports the ban. He doesn't speak for most Republicans. Meanwhile, if you choose not to ever vote Republican, it helps Democrats to win.

OK...obviously someone has hijacked Bridget's account.

That response is way too short. :mad::D

gator
03-04-2009, 07:49 AM
Okay, so Steele supports the ban. He doesn't speak for most Republicans. Meanwhile, if you choose not to ever vote Republican, it helps Democrats to win.

The Republicans winning in 2000 and holding Congress until 2006 got us bigger spending, more deficits, more entitlements, more worthless spending, ten trillion in debt and not sealing the borders. Not enough difference to get all worked up about.

gator
03-04-2009, 07:53 AM
Thats the problem with idealists. They forget about reality.

The reality is that the Republicans have screwed the Conservatives big time and most most people don't want to admit it.

The reality is that we have to do better than either the Democrats or the Republicans but most Conservatives in this country are in denial.

Molon Labe
03-04-2009, 08:06 AM
Thats the problem with idealists. They forget about reality.

There's also a problem with that reality. If you don't at least have some threshold of enough is enough then you keep getting trash like Steele that piss our liberty and conservative values away for the bottom line of keeping a Democrat out of office. That doesn't seem like such a bad thing since at least since the Dems took over Republican's have at least started to talk like conservatives again....even if they don't truly believe in it yet.
It's our fear of another Democrat getting in that screwed the Republican party. Most of the Republican leadership has convinced us that if we don't vote for them we'll get a nasty Democrat, when all they do is give lip service to the pro lifers, pro 2nd Amendment types, and pro constitution crowds.
Do you see how the powers that be have convinced everyone they have to vote "against" something?

I'm for demanding candidates that I believe in rather than always voting against the other guy.
If I was a salesman and kept f'in you over and over you would go somewhere else. Why do we settle with politics?
You can call that idealism if you like, but I don't like to accept the Republican party as the lesser of two evils. As conservatives we deserve more.

djones520
03-04-2009, 08:09 AM
There's also a problem with that reality. If you don't at least have some threshold of enough is enough then you keep getting trash like Steele that piss our liberty and conservative values away for the bottom line of keeping a Democrat out of office. That doesn't seem like such a bad thing since at least since the Dems took over Republican's have at least started to talk like conservatives again....even if they don't truly believe in it yet.
It's our fear of another Democrat getting in that screwed the Republican party. Most of the Republican leadership has convinced us that if we don't vote for them we'll get a nasty Democrat, when all they do is give lip service to the pro lifers, pro 2nd Amendment types, and pro constitution crowds.
Do you see how the powers that be have convinced everyone they have to vote "against" something?

I'm for demanding candidates that I believe in rather than always voting against the other guy.
If I was a salesman and kept f'in you over and over you would go somewhere else. Why do we settle with politics?
You can call that idealism if you like, but I don't like to accept the Republican party as the lesser of two evils. As conservatives we deserve more.

Demand it all you want. But when the cards have fallen, you have to play what you've been dealt.

I'm not saying we can't work for better, but helping to vote a radical socialist into office because you don't think your candidate is Republican enough is just crazy.

gator
03-04-2009, 08:16 AM
Demand it all you want. But when the cards have fallen, you have to play what you've been dealt.

I'm not saying we can't work for better, but helping to vote a radical socialist into office because you don't think your candidate is Republican enough is just crazy.

I think you are the Idealist.

What have you really gained by not voting for radical socialist when you replace them with just slighty less radical socialist?

djones520
03-04-2009, 08:18 AM
I think you are the Idealist.

What have you really gained by not voting for radical socialist when you replace them with just slighty less radical socialist?

3.9 trillion less in spending maybe?

Molon Labe
03-04-2009, 08:30 AM
Demand it all you want. But when the cards have fallen, you have to play what you've been dealt.

I'm not saying we can't work for better, but helping to vote a radical socialist into office because you don't think your candidate is Republican enough is just crazy.

I have to disagree....
Crazy, is when I keep voting for a man with an R next to his name at the ballot box.... then he doubles the Dept of Education, creates a new Federal Department (as if we don't have enough) with a new 50 billion dollar budget, then uses government to intervene in the market, sends out stimulus checks of borrowed money to the public wh like to suck on the government tit, and then grows the government larger than any previous president in history. Then I smile and praise him for being conservative and keep voting for more people like him. Then I get mad at the new POTUS who is essentially continuing the process of quasi fascism by doing essentially the same things, only this guy has a D next to his name. I think that's crazy.

That b.s. of voting for the different side of the same card you've been dealt doesn't wash.
What was it someone once said? "You have to be the change you want to see."
Not demanding more is just sheepish IMO.

One more thing. Too many people falsely believe that Obama is some sort of true Socialist. They keep describing him that way. I know far too many socialists and he's nothing of the sort. If he was, then the only socialist in the Congress, Bernie Sanders, would be head over heels in love with him. No. Obama falls right in line with his predecessor as being a quasi fascist who has no problem with market ownership by private individuals as long as the government has collusion with the industry. That's what Obama is.

djones520
03-04-2009, 08:33 AM
Just to expand on this, please explain to me how this is a radical socialist?


Taxes
Income Taxes:
Family Income
Greatly Decrease a) Less than $25,000
Greatly Decrease b) $25,000-$75,000
Greatly Decrease c) $75,000-$150,000
Maintain Status d) Over $150,000
e) Other or expanded categories
Retiree Income
Greatly Decrease f) Over $40,000
g) Other or expanded categories
Other Taxes:
a) Alcohol taxes
Greatly Decrease b) Capital gains taxes
Maintain Status c) Cigarette taxes
Slightly Decrease d) Corporate taxes
Slightly Decrease e) Gasoline taxes
Greatly Decrease f) Inheritance taxes
g) Other or expanded categories
Deductions/Credits:
Maintain Status a) Charitable contributions
Slightly Increase b) Child tax credit
Slightly Increase c) Earned income tax credit
Greatly Increase d) Medical expense deduction
Maintain Status e) Mortgage deduction
Maintain Status f) Student loan credit
g) Other or expanded categories


McCains stances on what he'd do to Taxes.

http://www.votesmart.org/npat.php?can_id=53270#543

Thats a socialist there alright. :rolleyes:

gator
03-04-2009, 08:44 AM
3.9 trillion less in spending maybe?

Then according your definition Bush was more of a radical Socialist than Clinton because he spent trillions more, correct?

Both the Republicans and the Democrats nowadays think government is the solution and spending is the answer.

I didn’t see McCain not voting for the big government budgets of the last eight years.

Relativism doesn’t mean much when you are wallowing in a deep pit of manure, does it? If you are over your head it doesn’t matter if you are in a 10,000 gallon tank or a 20,000 gallon tank, does it?

The trick is not to get into the pit in the first place, isn’t it? The Republicans and the Democrats have put us there.

Molon Labe
03-04-2009, 08:45 AM
Sounds like a f'in liberal socialist to me


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2JPbQOHEkY


Here's a radical solution

Why not do away with the income tax and replace it with NOTHING!

PoliCon
03-04-2009, 09:03 AM
You know the state of education in America is bad when people refuse to recognize that it is CONGRESS that holds the purse strings. CONGRESS. The president gets to REQUEST a budget - but it's the fucktards in congress that alter it - expand it - and hand it back bloated and full of fucking pork.

FeebMaster
03-04-2009, 09:11 AM
Why not do away with the income tax and replace it with NOTHING!

Easy. Then you'd have to cut some of the Republican's favorite big government programs.



You know the state of education in America is bad when people refuse to recognize that it is CONGRESS that holds the purse strings. CONGRESS. The president gets to REQUEST a budget - but it's the fucktards in congress that alter it - expand it - and hand it back bloated and full of fucking pork.

I agree. Clearly the Department of Education isn't doing its job. Let's disband it.

PoliCon
03-04-2009, 09:12 AM
I agree. Clearly the Department of Education isn't doing its job. Let's disband it. No objections from me.

Molon Labe
03-04-2009, 09:14 AM
You know the state of education in America is bad when people refuse to recognize that it is CONGRESS that holds the purse strings. CONGRESS. The president gets to REQUEST a budget - but it's the fucktards in congress that alter it - expand it - and hand it back bloated and full of fucking pork.

Exactly...
Remember that the next time someone lays all the blame on the POTUS. Facts are that congress is all too willing to go along with the POTUS.

Why is that routinely around 60% of congressional consitituents just love "their guy" then? We are all duped and often.

Molon Labe
03-04-2009, 09:17 AM
Easy. Then you'd have to cut some of the Republican's favorite big government programs.


Yep...I heard that if you completely eliminated the I.T. then the government would be the size it was in 1996. I don't know about you, but I still thought the size was too big then, and would have welcomed any reductions...especially the ones the Republican's promised me.
The income tax is just a way for the state to continue to fund more nastiness. It should go away.

Rebel Yell
03-04-2009, 09:32 AM
Yep...I heard that if you completely eliminated the I.T. then the government would be the size it was in 1996. I don't know about you, but I still thought the size was too big then, and would have welcomed any reductions...especially the ones the Republican's promised me.
The income tax is just a way for the state to continue to fund more nastiness. It should go away.

I wish, for one year, that all employers would stop taking out withholdins and make everyone stroke a check to the government on their taxes. All it would take is once.

PoliCon
03-04-2009, 09:39 AM
Exactly...
Remember that the next time someone lays all the blame on the POTUS. Facts are that congress is all too willing to go along with the POTUS.

Why is that routinely around 60% of congressional consitituents just love "their guy" then? We are all duped and often.

speak for yourself. I am not duped. I know who is to blame for the spending.

gator
03-04-2009, 09:42 AM
You know the state of education in America is bad when people refuse to recognize that it is CONGRESS that holds the purse strings. CONGRESS. The president gets to REQUEST a budget - but it's the fucktards in congress that alter it - expand it - and hand it back bloated and full of fucking pork.

Again, every time you post something you show us how stupid you are.

The President has a large influence on the budget preparation. In addition he has a veto power.

I didn't see Bush vetoing any of the Republican high spending budgets of 2001-2006, did you? Even after a couple of weak assessed veto attempts in 2007 and 2008 he signed a three trillion dollar budget, more than a trillion more than when he took office. Budgets that were filled with pork and entiltlements and worthless spending. Budgets that would make any Democrat proud.

ReaganForRus
03-04-2009, 09:48 AM
Reading all the posts, there is one thing that binds us........we want smaller government, a strong national defense, common sense in spending tax revenue, lower tax rates, adhere to the US Constitution as written, not interpreted, and a distinct AMERICAN culture. Personally, I am prepared to follow the road the Founding Fathers blazed for us by willing to commit everything I have in order to secure the future of the Country for my children. If that means I lose everything I've worked hard for all my life, I'm ready willing and able to do so. I wonder if there will be people to join me?:confused:

Molon Labe
03-04-2009, 09:49 AM
I wish, for one year, that all employers would stop taking out withholdins and make everyone stroke a check to the government on their taxes. All it would take is once.

I'm not sure the average joe would ever take a stand like that. That's too bad.
Lately...there is a movement in about a dozen state legislatures calling out the Federal government on it's power. I've seen these resolutions getting introduced that call for balking on the growth of the fed.

Celtic Rose
03-04-2009, 09:55 AM
I'm not sure the average joe would ever take a stand like that. That's too bad.
Lately...there is a movement in about a dozen state legislatures calling out the Federal government on it's power. I've seen these resolutions getting introduced that call for balking on the growth of the fed.

You know, Obama's presidency might be a good thing after all. We all know that the Federal Government has been growing larger and larger for a very long time, but Obama is accelerating the process, and the average Joe is going to realize just how big it is getting very soon. He might be just the thing the American people need to remind us all of why a big government is no desirable :cool:

lacarnut
03-04-2009, 05:20 PM
You know, Obama's presidency might be a good thing after all. We all know that the Federal Government has been growing larger and larger for a very long time, but Obama is accelerating the process, and the average Joe is going to realize just how big it is getting very soon. He might be just the thing the American people need to remind us all of why a big government is no desirable :cool:

I have to disagree. Obama will load the wagon up with liberal social programs, increased income taxes, new and increased Env. programs, cuts in the military, dumbing down our intelligence capabilities, socialized Meds, favorable union rules, protectionism, EU gasoline taxes, devalue our currency, hand our sovereignty over to the UN, appoint liberal judges for LIFE, etc., etc. Many of the programs can not or will not be reversed.

If we make it to 2010 without a full blown depression, I will be surprised. If that happens, the Democraps will have so many people on the dole that they will turn to the government for help. Government takeover by socialist/commies in Cuba and Venezuela come to mind. Chavez was just elected for life in this impoverished country.

Most conservatives know what kind of government we want. However, there very few in the Repub. party that have any damn backbone. Bush, Hasert and Frist were jokes when it came to fighting for what conservatives wanted. (smaller government, less taxes, border enforcement). In fact, I think the Democraps were pleased as punch to have these dumb asses in power for 8 years doing exactly what conservatives opposed. Now we are screwed royally and it will take 20 years to dig our ass out of the mess Obama is going to create.

gator
03-04-2009, 07:31 PM
You know, Obama's presidency might be a good thing after all. We all know that the Federal Government has been growing larger and larger for a very long time, but Obama is accelerating the process, and the average Joe is going to realize just how big it is getting very soon. He might be just the thing the American people need to remind us all of why a big government is no desirable :cool:

Actually Bush did the acceleration. He increased the budget by 33% while in office. He increased the budget a trillion dollars a year. Obama is just taking over where Bush left off.

Molon Labe
03-04-2009, 09:10 PM
The unfortunate fact that neocons gloss over and try to slam Obama for. All of a sudden, it's a Democrat in the White House, so government growth and spending are bad again. "Oh yeah, Bush was bad on spending, but so what? Obama will be even worse! Oh the horror!" What happened to the 'every President spends more than the guy before him' defense from back in 2006? :rolleyes:

I swear, some people don't even need to post on CU. Just register, say "I'm still a Republican", and we know what you're going to do every 2 years until you die - thanks for showing up.

I remember the days when I actually believed in this crap. When I joined the Buchanan brigade and when my college buddies actually went grassroots on campus during the Republican revolution (so called) in the early 90's. The contract with America seemed like something of substance and we pushed it...and then some. Now more than 15 years later and we have double the size of the federal government and Republican's just as willing to spend from the federal trough as Democrats.....just on different things. It's quasi fascism. Obama isn't a socialist. A socialist would kick the the CEO's to the curb and tell them to go f' themselves. No, Barry's quite willing to keep the collusion of Big Gov. and Big Bizz together for his own means.

lacarnut
03-04-2009, 09:50 PM
Yep. Where we at CU start to differ is that some of us have realized that the Republican politicians don't want any of that - never have - and some of us haven't. McCain lost because of people like the former. There are 10 million conservatives out there that won't vote for any liberal, and we'll all just do the best we can under a Democrat president until things start to shape up.

I would like to see a link to the 10 million conservatives that did not vote for McCain. McCain lost because Bush and the Repubs screwed up, lost their way and the majority of Americans wanted a change. FYI, Independents are the ones that decide the outcome of most Presidential election. They comprise around 30% of the vote and wound up voting for Obama. The other 70% is divided between R & D's. If every conservatives in the country had voted for McCain, he still would have lost.

FYI, being retired without any debt and in great financial shape, I will do good under an Obama administration even if the economy goes in the crapper. How about you? If it makes you feel better, keep on blaming Repubs and neocons because that is the solution to getting us out of this mess. Right.

lacarnut
03-04-2009, 11:21 PM
Obama isn't a socialist. A socialist would kick the the CEO's to the curb and tell them to go f' themselves. No, Barry's quite willing to keep the collusion of Big Gov. and Big Bizz together for his own means.

I would like an explanation of how raising taxes on rich individuals and entrepreneurs is going to keep this collusion you speak of together. If you are speaking of big banks, big automakers and other large institutions with their hand out for a bailout, you have a point. However, the most jobs are created by small businessmen. Taxes coming out the yang yang and new regulations will kill job creation.

You say Obama is not a socialist and that he would kick CEO's to the curb. You must not read the business news or follow the stock market. The government owns 80% of AIG and over 30% of CITI. Pretty soon they will be running the big 3 automakers. Have you heard of the restriction of CEO Exec. pay? The government is telling those that took the TARP money how to run their business. Outfits like Goldman S. want to give the money back and others don't want federal money. They know that the federal government could not run a whore house efficiently and they want no part of government control or interference.The stock market has sank like a rock because of Obama and Democratic socialistic policies. This has scared the living shit out of investors.

lacarnut
03-05-2009, 12:52 PM
Call it a hunch. McCain got 2 million less votes than Bush did in 2004, meaning there were a few people that jumped ship. Even more compelling, 45 million people that could have voted did not. I wouldn't call it a stretch that 25% of them thought McCain was too liberal, would you?



Right. Bush and the Repubs 'screwed up' by growing the government and government spending, among other things. Independent conservatives wanted a change. Six of one, half-dozen of the other. We aren't disagreeing.



I speculate that of the 45 million people that did not vote - but could have - 25% of them thought McCain was too liberal, and their votes would have put McCain ahead in the popular vote. Further, weren't you swearing all up and down a few months ago that Obama didn't have a chance against McCain? That was you, right? How did you get from 'Obama doesn't have a chance' to 'Obama was going to win no matter what'? :confused: I ow about me? You think I'm endorsing what Obama's doing to the country? Far from it - I'm simply saying that to complain about Obama after 8 years of Bush is ridiculous.



Don't mind if I do. :D You've already admitted McCain lost because of Bush and the neocon congress - you and I aren't disagreeing on that - I guess our real disagreement is on how many conservatives there actually are in this country. :cool:



No more or less so than blaming Clinton for 8 years got us out of anything.

Plus, I'm only one guy - I can't solve 'this mess' any more than you can. Really, I'm here fishing for ideas. The overwhelming sentiment at CU is that the way out of this pickle is just to keep voting Republican, no matter what. I disagree. I'm not sure what the answer is, but I am sure that that ain't it. The Republicans have been bad little monkeys - if we don't punish them by withholding our votes, they have no reason to change. Isn't it funny how they start voting against spending bills all of a sudden? Didn't we fall for this in 1994? Are we really going to fall for it again?

Around 40 to 45 % of Americans don't vote in a Prez election. So this past election was the norm for those that stayed at home. My guess is that 95% just don't give a shit about politics and care less who runs. Around 70% of the young vote went to Obama. That made up almost 20% of the total vote. McCain lost the election by more than 10 million. Getting slaughtered by the young vote cost him the election.

I thought that McCain would win. Maybe it was misplaced hope. However, after he picked Gov Palin, his poll numbers went up. Between the media crucifying her and his flubs up, he showed that he is a full blown RINO rather than a conservative. He fumbled the ball by not knowing how many houses he owned ; then when the market was going down he stupidly stating that the fundamentals were strong. To top that off he suspended his campaign to go to DC and voted for the stimulus porker bill when the overwhelming majority were against it. After doing that and his stance on immigration, he did not have a China-man's chance.

Repubs have been bad little monkeys and if they put up another RINO for Prez, I will stay home. I positively will not vote for Jeb. Voting 4 times for his dad and brother have turned me sour. If God came down from the heavens and told me that he was a true blue conservative I would have a hard time voting for him. If Repubs are too stupid to pick a conservative with a BACKBONE who will fight for what he or she believes in I will say fuck it and stay home next election day. The key word here is backbone and the willingness to fight for what you believe in. Just being a pansy ass conservative will not get the job done.

All this back stabbing about what Clinton/Bush did or did not do is not going to do us any good in the future. I think Obama is going to screw this country up big time. If anyone thinks this is a continuation of the Bush policies on monetary, economic, social, health care, and environmental policies, they are mistaken. If we ever go under a socialized health care system where a beauracrat determines who, what and when I can see a doctor or go to a hospital, I will pack my shit up and leave this country. Obama has already stated that he is going to reverse energy polices initated by Bush regarding coal. Obama is hell bent on giving every lazy fucker in this country a place to live, food to eat and walking around money all on our dime plus free health care. He is going to flood the money supply with devalued dollars. Env. policies and higher taxes will kill job creation.

Goldwater
03-05-2009, 01:15 PM
Palin looked like a great choice (I even had her as my choice before it happened, months before because I am so cool), but as the campaign went on and she got stuck in some stupid situations and changed a lot of her previous positions and was too much of politician in some of her interviews, even if the interviewer was going after her.

PoliCon
03-05-2009, 01:25 PM
Palin looked like a great choice (I even had her as my choice before it happened, months before because I am so cool), but as the campaign went on and she got stuck in some stupid situations and changed a lot of her previous positions and was too much of politician in some of her interviews, even if the interviewer was going after her.http://www.howobamagotelected.com/

Molon Labe
03-05-2009, 02:29 PM
http://www.howobamagotelected.com/

Obama got elected because the Republican's were stupid enough to nominate a "Liberal lite" who was a walking corpse to the party ticket. I'm sorry...."a Maverick". :p Don't overcomplicate things.

It's funny as hell to watch rednecks in my state go around with McCain/ Palin bumper stickers on their vehicle not realizing what they were supporting was far from what they actually believe in.

asdf2231
03-05-2009, 02:33 PM
Obama got elected because the Republican's were stupid enough to nominate a "Liberal lite" who was a walking corpse to the party ticket. I'm sorry...."a Maverick". :p Don't overcomplicate things.

It's funny as hell to watch rednecks in my state go around with McCain/ Palin bumper stickers on their vehicle not realizing what they were supporting was far from what they actually believe in.

:rolleyes:

Rebel Yell
03-05-2009, 02:58 PM
Obama got elected because the Republican's were stupid enough to nominate a "Liberal lite" who was a walking corpse to the party ticket. I'm sorry...."a Maverick". :p Don't overcomplicate things.

It's funny as hell to watch rednecks in my state go around with McCain/ Palin bumper stickers on their vehicle not realizing what they were supporting was far from what they actually believe in.

Who did you vote for?

Molon Labe
03-05-2009, 03:07 PM
:rolleyes:


Reagan bumper sticker....I can understand. :D

http://www.flashreport.org/images/cowboy_hat_ronald_reagan.jpg

I really don't care what Mcain started saying when it was politically expedient at election time. Anyone that entertains any weapons ban is not a gun owners friend.


McCain said he was open to voting for an assault weapon ban, depending on the details.
Los Angeles Times, “McCain Calls for Hearings” Aug 17, 1999

lacarnut
03-05-2009, 03:27 PM
I really don't care what Mcain started saying when it was politically expedient at election time. Anyone that entertains any weapons ban is not a gun owners friend.

In 4 years of the Obamanation Kingdom, you might change your tune. A Liberal light RINO might have been a better alternative. The stupid SOB took conservatives for granted and took a dump on the constitution with his positions on guns and immigration. I hope I don't ever have to make a choice between a RINO and a socialist. If it happens again, I will probably be one those 45% who stay at home on election day. I do believe that Obama is going to royally screw this country up and it will never be the same.

Molon Labe
03-05-2009, 03:56 PM
In 4 years of the Obamanation Kingdom, you might change your tune. A Liberal light RINO might have been a better alternative. The stupid SOB took conservatives for granted and took a dump on the constitution with his positions on guns and immigration. I hope I don't ever have to make a choice between a RINO and a socialist. If it happens again, I will probably be one those 45% who stay at home on election day. I do believe that Obama is going to royally screw this country up and it will never be the same.

Join the crowd. I didn't stay home but did vote "other" Unfortunately, I already believe we are screwed up unless someone with no ties to special interests van come about..(wishful thinking). Of course that person would proabably be assassinated on day 12.
The problems started long ago.....Clinton beget Bush who beget Obama.
I will never vote for the lesser of two evils again.

THE RESISTANCE
03-05-2009, 07:45 PM
The only reason I had to vote for McCain was the Supreme Court.

I wanted to write in a Constitutionalist candidate but our state does not allow write-ins for president.I got a free pass to vote the way I wished if I could of, for it was well known that our state would vote Republican.

Ahhh liberty. It is a much misunderstood thing.


It does not matter if our "leaders" are driving the right side of the road or the left side of the road. It has been the wrong road , is still the wrong road for something like 75 to 100 years.

PoliCon
03-06-2009, 12:05 AM
The only reason I had to vote for McCain was the Supreme Court. My expressed chief motivation in voting for Bush. And he did not disappoint me on that measure. :) Alito and Roberts have turned out swimmingly.

Odysseus
03-06-2009, 12:16 AM
My expressed chief motivation in voting for Bush. And he did not disappoint me on that measure. :) Alito and Roberts have turned out swimmingly.

Very true. And while McCain had serious problems as a candidate, can anyone imagine him signing this stimulus bill?

BTW, another reason that Gator is not a Republican: We don't have armbands and jackboots. :p

PoliCon
03-06-2009, 12:20 AM
Very true. And while McCain had serious problems as a candidate, can anyone imagine him signing this stimulus bill?

BTW, another reason that Gator is not a Republican: We don't have armbands and jackboots. :p

or tiny mustaches. :rolleyes: