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SarasotaRepub
03-08-2009, 07:16 PM
Are we Doomed??? (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=91097) :confused:

I thought this article was fitting to start this new Forum out.

linda22003
03-08-2009, 07:51 PM
I might worry about what a "famed" pastor said if I'd ever heard of him, and that's might.

PoliCon
03-08-2009, 07:59 PM
I might worry about what a "famed" pastor said if I'd ever heard of him, and that's might.

Just because you live under a rock . . . . :p

SarasotaRepub
03-08-2009, 08:01 PM
I might worry about what a "famed" pastor said if I'd ever heard of him, and that's might.

Some said that about Jesus.

BSR
03-08-2009, 08:46 PM
Some said that about Jesus.

SR with the half point buzzer beater for the win.. :cool:

SarasotaRepub
03-08-2009, 09:35 PM
SR with the half point buzzer beater for the win.. :cool:


Hee,hee! And I wasn't taking a shot at Linda. New Forum Hype! :D

FlaGator
03-08-2009, 09:38 PM
I really don't know what to think of this. David Wilkerson is not known for being a crackpot. Before I clicked on the article I thought for sure it had to be Benny Hinn or Pat Robertson or one of the other false prophet extraodinaires.

SarasotaRepub
03-08-2009, 09:48 PM
I really don't know what to think of this. David Wilkerson is not known for being a crackpot. Before I clicked on the article I thought for sure it had to be Benny Hinn or Pat Robertson or one of the other false prophet extraodinaires.

Hey, he said we'd lose Jersey too. No loss. :D

FlaGator
03-08-2009, 09:51 PM
Hey, he said we'd lose Jersey too. No loss. :D

We lost Jersey a long time ago...

PoliCon
03-08-2009, 09:57 PM
I really don't know what to think of this. David Wilkerson is not known for being a crackpot. Before I clicked on the article I thought for sure it had to be Benny Hinn or Pat Robertson or one of the other false prophet extraodinaires.

Be careful. Are you certain that they are not of God? POSITIVELY ABSOLUTELY COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY?

FlaGator
03-08-2009, 11:10 PM
Be careful. Are you certain that they are not of God? POSITIVELY ABSOLUTELY COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY?

Deuteronomy 18:20-22

But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death.”

Dt 18:21 You may say to yourselves, “How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the Lord?” 22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.



Benny Hinn

“The Lord also tells me to tell you in the mid-nineties, about ‘94 or ‘95, no later than that, God will destroy the homosexual community of America”


http://www.pfo.org/prophecy.htm

Pat Robertson

Note these facts bringing history in conformity with prophecy: In 1975 Ethiopia fell to communism; in 1979 the Shah of Iran fell and, probably before 1980 ends, Iran will be a Soviet puppet; Somalia is a Marxist country and Libya tilts to the Soviets; Mideast oil is the key to world domination; the Soviets have moved 200,000 troops to Afghanistan. . .

The coming Middle East war is an absolute certainty, as is the destruction of the Soviet Union. All available economic and military intelligence pinpoints 1982 as the optimum time for such a Soviet strike. ... [Emphasis, RW].

In June 1967 Israel captured East Jerusalem. The Chief Rabbi went to the Wailing Wall and blew the shofar, the ancient ram's-horn trumpet. Counting ten years from this blowing of trumpets in 1967, we find Egyptian President Sadat journeying to Jerusalem in 1977 and declaring, ' We agree to live at peace with you.'

For the next five years, a time of grace, the Israelis work out and amplify the peace, and there is an incredible final spiritual harvest throughout the Gentile world as millions are added to the kingdom of God. During the fifth year, in 1982, Russia strikes Israel, is defeated, and for seven years Israel makes symbolic offerings by fire of Russian war materiel. [Emphasis, RW]. These seven years are a transition period for Israel and the world. On the eighth year, there begins a new era -- a new beginning -- for Israel and for the world ("Pat Robertson's Perspective," A special report to members of the 700 Club, February/March 1980. pp. 3 & 5)!



http://www.ministryserver.com/rwsr/part05_Famed_false_prophets.htm

You decide...

PoliCon
03-08-2009, 11:22 PM
The experts on scripture called Jesus a blasphemer and a heretic. Isaiah was also ridiculed and attacked . . . . and God spoke through an ass. If God can use an Ass - he can use Hinn - right?


I'm just counseling caution.

FlaGator
03-08-2009, 11:33 PM
The experts on scripture called Jesus a blasphemer and a heretic. Isaiah was also ridiculed and attacked . . . . and God spoke through an ass. If God can use an Ass - he can use Hinn - right?


I'm just counseling caution.

We all serve God, one way or another. The Bible also counsels Christians to recognize false prophets and false teachers and to shun them. Jesus may have been called a blasphemer but he never spoke a falsehood. Isaiah was attacked because he spoke the truth of the coming invasion by Babylon and the people did not want to hear it. Again, Isaiah never said anything false. There are many who say false things daily and attribute their knowledge to God and then are proved false.

Jeremiah 23:16

This is what the Lord Almighty says:

“Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you;

they fill you with false hopes.

They speak visions from their own minds,

not from the mouth of the Lord.

Teachers of the Word are held to much higher standards than the laity because they are the shepards of the people. When some shepards are leading people astry then it is the duty of their brothers to warn them so that they can choose having been exposed to all information.

PoliCon
03-09-2009, 12:09 AM
We all serve God, one way or another. The Bible also counsels Christians to recognize false prophets and false teachers and to shun them. Jesus may have been called a blasphemer but he never spoke a falsehood. Literally or figuratively?


Isaiah was attacked because he spoke the truth of the coming invasion by Babylon and the people did not want to hear it. Again, Isaiah never said anything false. There are many who say false things daily and attribute their knowledge to God and then are proved false. Isaiah said nothing that was false that we know of - that was recorded in scripture.


Jeremiah 23:16


Teachers of the Word are held to much higher standards than the laity because they are the shepards of the people. When some shepards are leading people astry then it is the duty of their brothers to warn them so that they can choose having been exposed to all information.And what of Jonah? :) Was he a false prophet? What he prophesied to Nineveh did not come to pass - did it? :p

linda22003
03-09-2009, 07:02 AM
Some said that about Jesus.

This guy is in the "Jesus" category? :confused:

noonwitch
03-09-2009, 07:42 AM
I have his book somewhere at home. I was never a pentecostal, and he is. But Wilkerson had this vision from God to help gang kids, and he went to NYC where he felt the spirit was moving him to go. I am never going to discount the the spirit's ability to lead people to help others.


The movie of The Cross And The Switchblade is pretty hilarious, though. Erik Estrada as a gang member? Pat Boone is more believeable as Wilkerson, though.

I don't necessarily believe the prophecies of preachers, though. So many of them have turned out wrong.

Lars1701a
03-09-2009, 07:50 AM
We lost Jersey a long time ago...

Screw you Jersey RULES.!!!!!!

Well on the other hand we are running out of places to bury bodies :(

Gingersnap
03-09-2009, 10:17 AM
7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

(snip)

7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

We already know everything we need to know in order to secure salvation (which is the only important thing here). Prophets, true or false, can't tell us anything of any more importance than what we can read for ourselves in scripture. Attending to these people isn't productive to Christians and it's up to grace in the case of nonbelievers.

There have been enough false prophets over the past 20 years to reach to the moon and back.

FlaGator
03-09-2009, 12:10 PM
Literally or figuratively?

Within the context of which he spoke he never uttered a falsehood. If he had he would not have be the unblemish lamb of God, suitable to take away the sins of the world. Since God grants us grace and salvation then it is understood that Christ did not sin and therefore did not lie because to lie would be a sin.



Isaiah said nothing that was false that we know of - that was recorded in scripture.

Isaish spoke the words the Lord gave him to speak when Isaiah prophesized to the Hebrews. Since nothing in Scripture contradicts the prophecy that Isaiah spoke then it can be assured that he spoke the truth.



And what of Jonah? :) Was he a false prophet? What he prophesied to Nineveh did not come to pass - did it? :p

In the case of Jonah, he was told if Nivevah repented of their sins then they would be spared. Since they did repent and were spared then the prophecy was true. God knowing all things, however, knew before hand that Nineveh would repent and thus added the stipulation when he gave the prophecy to Jonah.

jediab
03-09-2009, 12:14 PM
Billy Graham prophesized this same type message about New York about 3 or so years ago. He used slightly different words to describe what he saw. But the two messages sound like the same event.

Is this new pastor just being a copycat? Well, only time will tell. ;)

PoliCon
03-09-2009, 12:17 PM
Within the context of which he spoke he never uttered a falsehood. If he had he would not have be the unblemish lamb of God, suitable to take away the sins of the world. Since God grants us grace and salvation then it is understood that Christ did not sin and therefore did not lie because to lie would be a sin.

saying that the pharisees were vipers would hardly be technically the truth you know . . . .


Isaish spoke the words the Lord gave him to speak when Isaiah prophesized to the Hebrews. Since nothing in Scripture contradicts the prophecy that Isaiah spoke then it can be assured that he spoke the truth. You might want to double check that. :)




In the case of Jonah, he was told if Nivevah repented of their sins then they would be spared. Since they did repent and were spared then the prophecy was true. God knowing all things, however, knew before hand that Nineveh would repent and thus added the stipulation when he gave the prophecy to Jonah.where do you see that recorded in the book of Jonah? Scripture says: Jonah 3:4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.. According to the standard you have set - Jonah is a false prophet.

FlaGator
03-09-2009, 01:18 PM
saying that the pharisees were vipers would hardly be technically the truth you know . . . .

So are you implying that Jesus lied?



You might want to double check that. :)


Are you saying you have evidence that Isaiah lied?



where do you see that recorded in the book of Jonah? Scripture says: Jonah 3:4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.. According to the standard you have set - Jonah is a false prophet.

First of all I did misquote from Jonah. The actual even that caused God to change was this.

When God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, he had compassion and did not bring upon them the destruction he had threatened.
God had compassion on them because they repented.

Secondly I did not set the standard. Where do you get the impression that I set the standard.

So did the homosexuals all die or did they repent and stop being homosexuals before the late '90s? Is there reason that God should have changed his mind about what Benny Hinn claimed God told him?

PoliCon
03-09-2009, 02:00 PM
So are you implying that Jesus lied? I'm saying that not everything Christ said was literally truth. He did often speak in parables and




Are you saying you have evidence that Isaiah lied?I'm saying that you don't have conculsive evidence that he was always 100% accurate in his prophesies.




First of all I did misquote from Jonah. The actual even that caused God to change was this.

God had compassion on them because they repented. Right - but Since Jonah prophesies their destruction in 40 days and the only evidence that we have that God changed his mind is Jonah - He could very well be labeled a false prophet. What he claimed would come to pass - did not.


Secondly I did not set the standard. Where do you get the impression that I set the standard. Very well then - the standard you have chosen to apply. :)


So did the homosexuals all die or did they repent and stop being homosexuals before the late '90s? Is there reason that God should have changed his mind about what Benny Hinn claimed God told him?I'm not defending His prophesy - I'm counseling caution.

FlaGator
03-09-2009, 03:09 PM
I'm saying that not everything Christ said was literally truth. He did often speak in parables and

I'm saying that you don't have conculsive evidence that he was always 100% accurate in his prophesies. [/quote]

As we both know Parables and hyperbole are analogies and exaggerations that highlight or explain a greater truth. When I walk outside and say "It's hotter than heck out here" that is not a lie althought the temp really isn't hotter than heck (however hot heck) but to quarrel on my or Jesus' usage of hyperbole is a bit silly. With Jesus, he did not sin or else he would have been unacceptable as the paschol lamb. Since he was acceptable then we can state without doubt that he didn't lie.

As for Isaiah, I would stick by my assumption that because God spoke through him that all his prophecy will come to pass. To even suggest that God my not tell the truth is a path a don't care to tread which is what you are doing when you suggest that Isaiah my not be 100% accurate in his prophecy. Now I must counsel you to be causious.



Right - but Since Jonah prophesies their destruction in 40 days and the only evidence that we have that God changed his mind is Jonah - He could very well be labeled a false prophet. What he claimed would come to pass - did not.
Very well then - the standard you have chosen to apply. :)
I'm not defending His prophesy - I'm counseling caution.

Now lets take a look at the Lords words concerning a prophet in light of Jonah and Benny Hinn.

Deuteronomy 18:7-20

The Lord said to me: “What they say is good. I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account.


Since the people of Nineveh did listen to the words of the prophet they were not called to account. Jonah didn't presume to speak his own words but the words God gave him to speak. Thus Jonah was not a false prophet and the Lord was justified in not bringing destruction to Nineveh.


But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death.”

Jonah didn't utter a false prophecy even though God's words didn't come to pass because the the city listened and repented. Benny Hinn, on the other hand, made statements in the name of God that the objects of his prophecy did not listen to and repent of their sin, and the prophecy did not come to pass. Thus Benny Hinn is a false prophet.

PoliCon
03-09-2009, 03:11 PM
How do you knowthat Hinn did not utter the words God gave him to speak?

FlaGator
03-09-2009, 03:23 PM
How do you knowthat Hinn did not utter the words God gave him to speak?

As I pointed out, his prophecy did not come true and the object of his prophecy did not repent.

PoliCon
03-09-2009, 05:20 PM
As I pointed out, his prophecy did not come true and the object of his prophecy did not repent.

Perhaps someone else interceded on their behalf.

FlaGator
03-09-2009, 05:32 PM
Perhaps someone else interceded on their behalf.

Since you brought it up who might that be?

PoliCon
03-09-2009, 05:41 PM
Since you brought it up who might that be?

No idea. Just saying what is possible. :)

AlmostThere
03-15-2009, 04:39 AM
I really don't know what to think of this. David Wilkerson is not known for being a crackpot. Before I clicked on the article I thought for sure it had to be Benny Hinn or Pat Robertson or one of the other false prophet extraodinaires.

No way could it be Hinn or Robert Tilton or someone like that. You think they'd claim the world is coming to an end? Who's gonna send them a check if they think Armageddon is gonna happen before it can be cashed? Now if fools stopped sending their last buck to Tilton as some bogus faith seed offering it might be Tilton's Armageddon. ;)

FlaGator
03-15-2009, 05:32 AM
No way could it be Hinn or Robert Tilton or someone like that. You think they'd claim the world is coming to an end? Who's gonna send them a check if they think Armageddon is gonna happen before it can be cashed? Now if fools stopped sending their last buck to Tilton as some bogus faith seed offering it might be Tilton's Armageddon. ;)

Perhaps they thinking is that if they believe the world is coming to an end the believers wlll send them all the rest of their cash because they won't need it any more....:D