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PoliCon
03-13-2009, 02:48 PM
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/03/090312115133.htm

American Adults Flunk Basic Science

ScienceDaily (Mar. 13, 2009) — Are Americans flunking science? A new national survey commissioned by the California Academy of Sciences and conducted by Harris Interactive® reveals that the U.S. public is unable to pass even a basic scientific literacy test.

what do they expect when we are constantly bombarded with global warming BS and science in the schools has been politicized as well? :rolleyes:

linda22003
03-13-2009, 02:55 PM
"Only 59% of adults know that the earliest humans and dinosaurs did not live at the same time."

Looks like they're being taught some other BS, too.

PoliCon
03-13-2009, 03:05 PM
"Only 59% of adults know that the earliest humans and dinosaurs did not live at the same time."

Looks like they're being taught some other BS, too.
Yea - stupid hollywood movies.

AmPat
03-13-2009, 10:29 PM
What a ridiculous idea.:rolleyes::eek:
Or is it?
http://www.crystalinks.com/icastones.html

PoliCon
03-13-2009, 10:36 PM
"Only 59% of adults know that the earliest humans and dinosaurs did not live at the same time."

Looks like they're being taught some other BS, too.

Have you seen Ben Stein's EXPELLED yet? If not - you should.

wilbur
03-13-2009, 10:53 PM
Have you seen Ben Stein's EXPELLED yet? If not - you should.

Ah yes, who best to get your science advice from than one of the most renown scientific illiterates!

PoliCon
03-13-2009, 11:01 PM
Ah yes, who best to get your science advice from than one of the most renown scientific illiterates!

lol when you cannot beat the argument - attack the person making it. :rolleyes:

wilbur
03-13-2009, 11:19 PM
lol when you cannot beat the argument - attack the person making it. :rolleyes:

The problem with trying to refute Ben Stein is choosing where to begin. Should it be his claim that 'science leads to killing people?'. Thats always good....

See http://www.expelledexposed.com/

Absolutely brilliant this is.... a thread lamenting scientific illiteracy... on one hand we have someone positing a link to some questionable site trying to claim ancient carvings are proof dinosaurs and man lived together (perhaps thousands of years from now, they will find an old copy of Jurassic Park and conclude we had dinosaur zoo's)... and the other someone toting the most notable pseudo-scientific anti-science hit peice of our day... that puts anything michael moore or al gore have done to shame.

This is almost as good as Dave Chapelle's skit where he was a the blind leader of the KKK... and didn't know he was black.

Scientific illiteracy indeed... read it and weep people.

PoliCon
03-13-2009, 11:21 PM
You have obviously NOT watched the film. Wilbur you are exactly the type of person Stein talks about in the movie. You have your mind all made up and anything that challenges that belief is dismissed. Stein is only advocating that a dialogue be allowed. lol not that any one side is right or wrong.

PoliCon
03-13-2009, 11:23 PM
Just for the record - despite what the atheistic community would like you to believe - Intelligent design =/= creationism.

wilbur
03-13-2009, 11:42 PM
You have obviously NOT watched the film. Wilbur you are exactly the type of person Stein talks about in the movie. You have your mind all made up and anything that challenges that belief is dismissed. Stein is only advocating that a dialogue be allowed. lol not that any one side is right or wrong.

Ben Stein and his friends who made the documentary are about promoting fairness in science education.... in the same way the fairness doctrine is about fairness in talk radio.

Dialog is and always has been encouraged. Even the testimonials of the 'expelled' were misleading.

Note that they also didnt bother to interview outspoken catholic Ken Miller for their movie...

*I have Expelled right here on my hard drive.

wilbur
03-13-2009, 11:46 PM
Just for the record - despite what the atheistic community would like you to believe - Intelligent design =/= creationism.

Depends who you ask. In the context of the Dover trial, it was creationism.

PoliCon
03-14-2009, 12:05 AM
Ben Stein and his friends who made the documentary are about promoting fairness in science education.... in the same way the fairness doctrine is about fairness in talk radio. Baloney. They want all voices to be heard - you do not. If you wanted all voices to be heard you would not have attacked the movie. You would have encouraged people to watch it - and then have given the counters to the arguments offered. But you didn't. You maligned and attacked Stein and the makers of the movie. Hypocrite.

wilbur
03-14-2009, 01:02 AM
Baloney. They want all voices to be heard - you do not.

What voices? The voices that are working to turn science class into Christian (in Ben Steins case Jewish) apologetics? Be specific. Who is being treated unfairly?



If you wanted all voices to be heard you would not have attacked the movie.

If you were scientifically literate, you would not have been promoting the movie.


You would have encouraged people to watch it - and then have given the counters to the arguments offered. But you didn't. You maligned and attacked Stein and the makers of the movie. Hypocrite.

I don't encourage people to waste their time. The content of the movie has been debunked many times over, here and elsewhere. I linked to a site with the relevant info. Read it or don't.

PoliCon
03-14-2009, 08:43 AM
What voices? The voices that are working to turn science class into Christian (in Ben Steins case Jewish) apologetics? Be specific. Who is being treated unfairly? See - there you go. You attack the person - you deflect into realms of religion and theology and it's not about that. lol




If you were scientifically literate, you would not have been promoting the movie. OF COURSE! because every "scientifically literate" person is an atheist like you. :rolleyes: You're a typical leftist. You claim to be for tolerance and open dialogue until someone wants to express something you don't agree with.




I don't encourage people to waste their time. The content of the movie has been debunked many times over, here and elsewhere. I linked to a site with the relevant info. Read it or don't. The content? The content of the movie is a demonstration that people like you do just what you are doing here. You deflect - you attack the messenger - you do everything to discredit those who disagree with you without ever once taking the time to engage them on the issues! lol EXPELLED is not about science you tool! It's a documentary on the idiots who preach scientific orthodoxy and go out of their way to SILENCE any dissent. You're only proving the case. :cool:

Gingersnap
03-14-2009, 10:22 AM
You guys are getting totally off point here. The point of the story is that American adults fail to know basic facts such the time the earth takes to rotate and how much water covers the planet. If they got all the questions right except the dinosaur/human one, I'd be really happy. The dinosaur/human question has virtually no bearing on how the average adult would solve practical problems using the scientific method or something like it.

We are becoming a nation of scientific illiterates and 98% of that lost knowledge has nothing to do with the origins of our species, other species, or the planet. Just because somebody believes in strict Darwinian evolution doesn't mean that they have a grasp of geography, simple physics, day-to-day chemistry, rudimentary math, ecology as it applies to agriculture or animal husbandry, or any number of highly useful scientific facts and tools.

PoliCon
03-14-2009, 11:02 AM
You guys are getting totally off point here. The point of the story is that American adults fail to know basic facts such the time the earth takes to rotate and how much water covers the planet. If they got all the questions right except the dinosaur/human one, I'd be really happy. The dinosaur/human question has virtually no bearing on how the average adult would solve practical problems using the scientific method or something like it.

We are becoming a nation of scientific illiterates and 98% of that lost knowledge has nothing to do with the origins of our species, other species, or the planet. Just because somebody believes in strict Darwinian evolution doesn't mean that they have a grasp of geography, simple physics, day-to-day chemistry, rudimentary math, ecology as it applies to agriculture or animal husbandry, or any number of highly useful scientific facts and tools.

What it means is that progressive education is succeeding in it's goals.

Shannon
03-14-2009, 06:39 PM
what do they expect when we are constantly bombarded with global warming BS and science in the schools has been politicized as well? :rolleyes:

I expect parents to do a better job raising their children.

PoliCon
03-14-2009, 07:16 PM
I expect parents to do a better job raising their children.

trouble is - they don't raise their children. They let the schools and the TV do it for them.

wilbur
03-14-2009, 07:19 PM
.... Just because somebody believes in strict Darwinian evolution doesn't mean that they have a grasp of geography, simple physics, day-to-day chemistry, rudimentary math, ecology as it applies to agriculture or animal husbandry, or any number of highly useful scientific facts and tools.

But it is quite relevant... in that people have been trained to believe that if someone makes certain political policies or philosophical views from a scientific theory... that they can simply dismiss the theory itself. So we have people saying that because many on the left try to justify many policies on the basis of global warming, that it should be dismissed as a hoax, and that since many atheists etc seem to accept evolution (not to mention the scientists) it should be dismissed.

This creates an over all hostile environment towards science... and does nothing but encourage scientifically illiterate people to elevate 'their own truths' to the level of scientific inquiry. In other words, we are fostering a whole class of people whose scientific beliefs live or die by their own personal convictions, religious views, superstitions, or political ideologies. Algebra, evolution, nor germ theory are made more or less correct by ones political views.

Shannon
03-14-2009, 07:20 PM
trouble is - they don't raise their children. They let the schools and the TV do it for them.

Again- I expect parents to do a better job raising their children.

AmPat
03-14-2009, 10:08 PM
But it is quite relevant... in that people have been trained to believe that if someone makes certain political policies or philosophical views from a scientific theory... that they can simply dismiss the theory itself.

Why are you so threatened by Intelligent Design? The THEORY of Evolution has also been debunked. This flawed theory with sparse and/or no evidence, takes much more faith to believe than that a Creator designed the universe. At what point do you finally decide that a big accident could not possibly have created our universe?

Scientifically (mathematically) speaking, what odds do you give that the entire universe with earth and all its various life, is the result of a collection of perfectly timed accidents?
How many of those perfectly timed accidents would have to occur simultaneously and what are the odds of that?
How did all the ingredients required to establish life on earth get there in the first place?
What is the origin of the catalyst that mixed the ingredients? :confused:

wilbur
03-14-2009, 11:28 PM
Why are you so threatened by Intelligent Design? The THEORY of Evolution has also been debunked. This flawed theory with sparse and/or no evidence, takes much more faith to believe than that a Creator designed the universe. At what point do you finally decide that a big accident could not possibly have created our universe?

Its not a one or the other thing thing for a great many people, AmPat.



Scientifically (mathematically) speaking, what odds do you give that the entire universe with earth and all its various life, is the result of a collection of perfectly timed accidents?
How many of those perfectly timed accidents would have to occur simultaneously and what are the odds of that?


The correct answer to this question at this point in time is that no one has a freakin clue. ID claims to be able to infer intelligent causation in the absence of this necessary information required to actually ascertain how something came to be... but it cant. Junk science.



How did all the ingredients required to establish life on earth get there in the first place?
What is the origin of the catalyst that mixed the ingredients? :confused:

That is quite a fruitful area of research right now... again we're not really sure, but scientists have some pretty good ideas.

Since we are not sure, you might ask what the problem is with posing the question of intelligent causation. There isnt, and there never has been. But thats not how the ID debate has functioned... its because of the way it has functioned that poses a problem for scientific literacy... not the nature of the questions it asks. That process so far has been to avoid scientific debate, avoid doing actual research, then directly advocate the cause to grade school school boards and parents, and malign good science in the process by pretending its the victim of massive conspiracies... all in a misguided attempt to attack materialism (see the wedge document). And in doing so, they try to actually change the nature of science... and pretend what they are doing is scientific all along.

Not that education today really does a wonderful job of explaining scientific concepts or the reasoning behind the philosophy of science... but ID surely doesn't help. Well... maybe it does... but only in the way that Osama Bin Laden could claim to have helped air port security.

PoliCon
03-14-2009, 11:36 PM
Intelligent design challenges his deeply held atheistic orthodoxies. That's the real problem. If he admits intelligent design or that anything to do with it has any credence what ever he might have to rethink his anti-Christian beliefs.