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View Full Version : Deeper cuts to come in U.S. airline service



LogansPapa
06-27-2008, 06:48 PM
By Micheline Maynard / Friday, June 27, 2008

DETROIT: Buffeted by soaring oil prices and spare capacity, U.S. airlines are planning deeper cuts in domestic and international routes, a shift that may whittle the industry to a scale last seen in 2002, when travel fell sharply after the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks on the United States.

The downsizing of the U.S. airline industry is unlikely to be reversed anytime soon, and whether it will spread beyond the United States is still uncertain.

U.S. carriers are selling off hundreds of older, less-efficient planes, so the industry is unlikely to grow sharply again, even if oil prices - which climbed Friday briefly to another record above $142 a barrel - were to drop and the economy were to rebound.

Passengers flying within the United States need to begin preparing for some significant cuts to airline fleets and schedules that will begin taking effect within a few months.

U.S. airports of every size - from LaGuardia in New York to Oakland in California - will also be affected as airlines reduce flights and eliminate service altogether.

Cuts also are taking place on international routes, affecting cities from London to Buenos Aires, as well as U.S. destinations popular with travelers from around the world, like Honolulu and Orlando, Florida.

By year's end, approximately 100 U.S. communities will lose regular commercial air service, a number that may double next year, according to the Air Transport Association, or ATA, the industry trade group.

At least one major carrier could liquidate, ATA has warned, on top of eight small airlines that have gone out of business or filed for bankruptcy protection this year.

http://www.iht.com/bin/printfriendly.php?id=14058912

Odysseus
06-27-2008, 08:27 PM
By Micheline Maynard / Friday, June 27, 2008

DETROIT: Buffeted by soaring oil prices and spare capacity, U.S. airlines are planning deeper cuts in domestic and international routes, a shift that may whittle the industry to a scale last seen in 2002, when travel fell sharply after the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks on the United States...

http://www.iht.com/bin/printfriendly.php?id=14058912

On the plus side, you will now be offered your choice of aisle, center, window, cargo or wheel well seating. :D

lacarnut
06-27-2008, 08:53 PM
Go by Greyhound or train. Too many people stay in a constant rush 24/7

Cold Warrior
06-27-2008, 10:22 PM
Go by Greyhound or train. Too many people stay in a constant rush 24/7

The train's ok, particularly the Boston-NYC-Washington Amtrak. But does anyone who doesn't pack a pig and a chicken travel by bus? :eek:

LogansPapa
06-28-2008, 11:46 PM
What happened to the statement that flying was manditory to the survival of the country? Beginning to sound/smell like a steaming pile of bullshit these days.:p

hampshirebrit
06-29-2008, 11:33 AM
What happened to the statement that flying was manditory to the survival of the country? Beginning to sound/smell like a steaming pile of bullshit these days.:p

You are wrong.

I've pointed out elsewhere that the commercial aviation industry will be the very first to suffer from high crude prices, and this is already started to happen.

British Airways will place a sizable amount of its capacity in hangar storage this coming winter. Ryanair says it can no longer guarantee profitability, given the high prices. Big surprise, since the Ryanair model depends entirely on $85-90/bbl prices, and does not scale at all well when prices are likely to go well beyond $150 in a few weeks.

This is of concern to me, since I work in a services company aligned to the energy industry. I need to travel to Aberdeen, and the Aberdeeners need to travel to London, so that we can deliver. Every flight I take to Aberdeen and back (business class only flights) rarely if ever have any empty seats at all, certainly not on Mondays and Fridays.

We also work in Europe fairly often. We need to travel by the most rapid means available, otherwise we will miss deadlines.

Sonna is right ... commercial aviation is critical to business in the Western world.

asdf2231
06-29-2008, 12:23 PM
I am ever SOOOOO glad we handed these assclowns 12 billion dollars in tax payer duckets to help "Bail" them out in the wake of 9/11. :rolleyes:

LogansPapa
06-29-2008, 01:48 PM
You are wrong.

Sonna is right ... commercial aviation is critical to business in the Western world.


Sonna owns a business that has any connection with the commercial aviation industry?:confused:

LogansPapa
06-29-2008, 04:59 PM
This is of concern to me, since I work in a services company aligned to the energy industry. I need to travel to Aberdeen, and the Aberdeeners need to travel to London, so that we can deliver. Every flight I take to Aberdeen and back (business class only flights) rarely if ever have any empty seats at all, certainly not on Mondays and Fridays.

We also work in Europe fairly often. We need to travel by the most rapid means available, otherwise we will miss deadlines.

Sonna is right ... commercial aviation is critical to business in the Western world.


Of course they fly - and in the new format we need to watch our mouths. It's just the adult thing to do. But other than business - who HAS to fly to Europe? It's a luxury - not a necessity, dear little over-wound buddy.

;)

Reference my original position and you'll see it was correct.;)

hampshirebrit
06-29-2008, 05:57 PM
Reference my original position and you'll see it was correct.;)

Explain and prove it , then, and when you do, you won't be doing your cute little ;) anymore.

We are about to take a hammering from this situation.

And when we do, then you really, really will, too. You see, because shit really does run downhill.

You must be an idiot if you don't think we will pass ALL our costs on to you.

Goldwater
06-29-2008, 06:59 PM
Of course commercial aviation is needed and a large factor in the economy, whether it's at that must have level now that the internet is in our lives so much is probably doubtful.

LogansPapa
06-29-2008, 09:13 PM
Explain and prove it , then, and when you do, you won't be doing your cute little ;) anymore.

We are about to take a hammering from this situation.

And when we do, then you really, really will, too. You see, because shit really does run downhill.

You must be an idiot if you don't think we will pass ALL our costs on to you.

When did I ever indicate that we wouldn't and that business wouldn't pass the costs along to their customers for their mandatory business travel?

As an aerospace shop I can already see massive cuts in commercial part repair. In fact, if it weren't for the military component repair business, my facility would have little to do for the local repair station componentry part of my income.

I think you've mistaken my perspective on this. My original point was that 'Mom & Pop' don't have to fly.

It is a luxury.

Just as people do not have to drive at 75 on the freeway. Here in the LA basin, people are driving at or below the speedlimit because they've found that they can generate substantial savings by doing so. Even commercial flights coming into LAX are slowing way down 100 miles from the airport and saving huge amounts in jet fuel if looked at on a fleet-wise basis.

We've made ourselves dependent on all these supposed necessities and nobody's turned the lights off. Back during the first national energy crisis, businesses turned their lights off after 9 or 10PM when they closed. We're still not doing that here in California and you can drive down any major boulevard at midnight and it seems like driving through Vegas.

We have zero idea how bad it can get and still refuse to go to work with any more than one person in the large, gas guzzling monsters, as if there's no tomorrow.

The Saudis didn't do this to us - we did.

Sonnabend
06-30-2008, 07:38 AM
I think you've mistaken my perspective on this. My original point was that 'Mom & Pop' don't have to fly.

It is a luxury.

Y'know, just when I thought you couldn't get any stupider, you surprise me by digging an even bigger hole.

Three words, dickhead.
.
The invisible trade.

So..people don't have to fly to attend a funeral of their relatives in other states...they can drive and arrive three days after the funeral is over. Brilliant move.

People dont have to fly to see their families after university ends..so what if they live on the other side of the country...a ten day drive is fine according to you. So what if a soldier who has just come home wants to go see his mother.,..only she lives in New York and his base is in Kansas....he can get a car and drive, can't he?

A woman who works in New York for six months and wants to finally go home to Arizona shouldnt fly..she can just get in a car and spend days and days on the road

One tank of avgas and the cost of same will be ONE MILLIONTH the cost of MILLIONS of car miles used instead of flight.

And p. s idiot, what about the people of Hawaii..when they want to visit the mainland..what do you suggest they do...swim?

Do you have any idea what the comparitive cost is between a bunker of fuel of a ship between the mainland and Hawaii Vs the cost of one tank of avgas??? Not to mention the upkeep and work needed to be done on roads and other forms of transportation?

Incidentally, imbecile, the safety factor in flight far outweight the number of deaths on the roads from fatigued drivers....one tank of avgas and one three hour flight and 150 people is peanuts in comparison to the massive costs of automotive fuel.

My God you're an idiot....

linda22003
06-30-2008, 09:16 AM
Flying is not "just a luxury", but there is no guarantee that it should be cheap, either.

LogansPapa
06-30-2008, 10:17 AM
Flying is not "just a luxury", but there is no guarantee that it should be cheap, either.

Linda gets it. Wound-too-tight doesn't. Vacations are going in the tank folks - face it. Or not.;)

linda22003
06-30-2008, 12:30 PM
Vacations are going in the tank folks - face it. Or not.;)

Not necessarily. You just have to decide what you're willing to pay for. We flew to Paris last year for $1000 apiece. Would I still go for $1200? $1500? Yes. I'm sure I have a point at which it wouldn't be worth it to me, and I'll figure it out when I get there. :)

LogansPapa
06-30-2008, 01:04 PM
Not necessarily. You just have to decide what you're willing to pay for. We flew to Paris last year for $1000 apiece. Would I still go for $1200? $1500? Yes. I'm sure I have a point at which it wouldn't be worth it to me, and I'll figure it out when I get there. :)

And people of means will always do so. :)

But Joe Six-Pack isn’t going to fly to Vegas for the weekend on a whim. How do I know? Because Vegas is pushing TV and radio ads every 15 minutes telling us in SoCal, "You Don’t Know Vegas!" and spending hundreds of thousands on advertising dollars they weren’t spending this time last year. Gas cards and deeply discounted rooms to keep you from going to the local Indian reservations to gamble.

Signs of this are all over the economy, benefiting some tourist businesses, like hotels in San Diego, because people are staying closer to home, and killing others - like long range sportfishing out of the same town. The economy is in retraction and more-than-likely will continue so well into 2010.

Mandatory air travel will always be there - but aircraft are being stacked at record levels out in the desert, while airlines bank their futures on loans for newest generation machines that consume much less jet fuel per hour. First and Business Class will probably maintain a healthy ridership, but the econo-airlines are cutting their neighbor’s throats for bookings. SouthWest’s CEO was a smart SOB when he bought his fuel way-back-when and that allows his company to kill the competition, presently.

I’m shifting my shop’s capacity to oiltool presently, as my FAA related repair business is off about half from this time last year.;)

LogansPapa
07-09-2008, 04:22 PM
Northwest Airlines to cut 2,500 jobs

Jul 9 01:42 PM US/Eastern

MINNEAPOLIS (AP) - Northwest Airlines Corp. is the latest airline to cut jobs because of high oil prices.

The carrier said Wednesday it will eliminate 2,500 management and front-line jobs. It previously announced that it would shrink the amount of flying it does by roughly 9 percent later this year.

President and CEO Doug Steenland blames the cuts on fuel costs that have more than doubled in the past year.

Northwest says it will offer voluntary departures. It says furloughs will be used only if it does not get enough volunteers to reach the 2,500 number.

Northwest also says it will begin charging $15 for the first checked bag, matching a fee added by other carriers this year. And the airline says it will begin charging a fee for frequent-flier award tickets—from $25 for domestic tickets to $100 for flights to Asia.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D91QFIHG0&show_article=1

Molon Labe
07-09-2008, 04:34 PM
Flying is not "just a luxury", but there is no guarantee that it should be cheap, either.

Unfortunately...it's going to fast become one just as it was when I was a child. And your right it won't be cheap, but the average Joe will be taking less flights to Cancun I'll bet.

linda22003
07-09-2008, 06:46 PM
Unfortunately...it's going to fast become one just as it was when I was a child. And your right it won't be cheap, but the average Joe will be taking less flights to Cancun I'll bet.

I flew when I was a child, too. My first flight was in 1963; my mother wore a hat and gloves with her suit, because air travel was something you "dressed up" for. :D