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megimoo
03-26-2009, 09:59 PM
A TEENAGE was burned to death at her home in India in an "honour killing" by neighbours.
Four residents of her village in Ghaziabad, north India, allegedly set the 16-year-old Muslim girl alight after they suspected her of having a relationship with a boy.Police claim residents kept a vigil on her house as they noticed the boy visited her frequently when her father was away. The four men then beat her, doused her with kerosene and set her on fire.

District police chief Akhil Kumar said: "The four men came to the girl's house and demanded to know why the young man frequently visited her. The girl's younger sister, who felt the visitors were getting violent, ran out of the house."Meanwhile, the accused beat up the girl and then set her on fire with kerosene oil."

She gave a dying statement to the police saying the accused beat her and set her on fire.

http://news.scotsman.com/latestnews/Villagers-burn-girl-alive-in.5103494.jp

PoliCon
03-26-2009, 10:15 PM
A TEENAGE was burned to death at her home in India in an "honour killing" by neighbours.
Four residents of her village in Ghaziabad, north India, allegedly set the 16-year-old Muslim girl alight after they suspected her of having a relationship with a boy.Police claim residents kept a vigil on her house as they noticed the boy visited her frequently when her father was away. The four men then beat her, doused her with kerosene and set her on fire.

District police chief Akhil Kumar said: "The four men came to the girl's house and demanded to know why the young man frequently visited her. The girl's younger sister, who felt the visitors were getting violent, ran out of the house."Meanwhile, the accused beat up the girl and then set her on fire with kerosene oil."

She gave a dying statement to the police saying the accused beat her and set her on fire.

http://news.scotsman.com/latestnews/Villagers-burn-girl-alive-in.5103494.jpNow that's a peaceful religion right there - I tell you whut!

FlaGator
03-26-2009, 10:21 PM
Now that's a peaceful religion right there - I tell you whut!

I'm am in no way defending Islam, but honor killings are cultural not religious in nature. The fact that the murderers were Muslim has nothing to do with the murder of the young woman. These types of killings happen with the Hindi and Buddhists in the area.

PoliCon
03-26-2009, 10:42 PM
I'm am in no way defending Islam, but honor killings are cultural not religious in nature. The fact that the murderers were Muslim has nothing to do with the murder of the young woman. These types of killings happen with the Hindi and Buddhists in the area.

In Islam - islam **IS** the culture.

FlaGator
03-26-2009, 11:03 PM
In Islam - islam **IS** the culture.

Not really. These type of murders have gone on long before Islam was the religion of the area. Islam merely supports the culture that was already present in these countries. The Koran does not forbid honor killings but it doesn't endorse them either.

PoliCon
03-26-2009, 11:05 PM
Not really. These type of murders have gone on long before Islam was the religion of the area. Islam merely supports the culture that was already present in these countries. The Koran does not forbid honor killings but it doesn't endorse them either.

I don't deny that they predate islam - but they are fully a part of islam as much as their views that women are property.

BTW -you do know the Koran is not their only holy book - right?

FlaGator
03-26-2009, 11:21 PM
I don't deny that they predate islam - but they are fully a part of islam as much as their views that women are property.

BTW -you do know the Koran is not their only holy book - right?

Its the only one common to all the Islamic sects.The most of the others were derived for the purpose of blending the Islamic belief system into the culture it was converting. Christians did a similar thing by adopting pagan holidays and infusing them with Christian significance.

As to the topic at hand, Eastern Indians perform honor killings more frequently than Pakistani ans or Arabs and for lesser offenses. In parts of India newly married women are burned alive if the husband and his family feel that they have been mislead by the size of her dowry. Honor killings are similar to the custom of female circumcision which is performed by native Christians and Jews in Ethiopia and the Sudan. Some actions transcend religion. I know that we like to portray the Islamic religion as the ultimate Bogey man but sometimes even monsters can't be given credit for scaring us.

PoliCon
03-26-2009, 11:49 PM
Its the only one common to all the Islamic sects.you are overlooking the Sirah. But then most people do. It is not something that is spoken of to non muslims much in the west.


The most of the others were derived for the purpose of blending the Islamic belief system into the culture it was converting.Meh - there were other books which were the islamic equivolant of the book of mormon - but the sirah is just a single step below the koran and is a book universally accepted.


Christians did a similar thing by adopting pagan holidays and infusing them with Christian significance.Christians moved their feasts to the dates of pagan feasts to erase their appeal. Quite a different thing all together from what you claim here.


As to the topic at hand, Eastern Indians perform honor killings more frequently than Pakistani ans or Arabs and for lesser offenses. In parts of India newly married women are burned alive if the husband and his family feel that they have been mislead by the size of her dowry. Honor killings are similar to the custom of female circumcision which is performed by native Christians and Jews in Ethiopia and the Sudan. Some actions transcend religion. I know that we like to portray the Islamic religion as the ultimate Bogey man but sometimes even monsters can't be given credit for scaring us.Honour killings do happen outside of islam. I do not dispute that. But they are very much part and partial to islam.

FlaGator
03-27-2009, 09:53 AM
you are overlooking the Sirah. But then most people do. It is not something that is spoken of to non muslims much in the west.

Meh - there were other books which were the islamic equivalent of the book of mormon - but the sirah is just a single step below the koran and is a book universally accepted.

Christians moved their feasts to the dates of pagan feasts to erase their appeal. Quite a different thing all together from what you claim here.

Honour killings do happen outside of islam. I do not dispute that. But they are very much part and partial to islam.

I have laid out my case, believe what you choose to believe. If it makes you feel better seeing an Islamic specter behind every action in that region of the world then I'm happy for you. I do, however, know a little more about this than you imagine. For example the Sirah is not one book, but a collective name for all the biographies of Mohammad containing mostly historical information on Mohammad's life and has very little Islamic doctrine. There are hundreds of different books that fall in to the category of Sirah (or Seerah). The Christian equivalent would be books on the life of Jesus that focus more on his history than his actual teachings.

linda22003
03-27-2009, 11:13 AM
I'm am in no way defending Islam, but honor killings are cultural not religious in nature. The fact that the murderers were Muslim has nothing to do with the murder of the young woman. These types of killings happen with the Hindi and Buddhists in the area.

I don't know about Buddhists, but Hindus have certainly had "bride burnings" - generally when the new bride doesn't provide enough of a dowry or disappoints her new husband's family in some other way. The British Raj had a long, hard time of it getting the locals to stop practicing suttee - throwing the live widow on her dead husband's funeral pyre.

PoliCon
03-27-2009, 12:32 PM
I have laid out my case, believe what you choose to believe. If it makes you feel better seeing an Islamic specter behind every action in that region of the world then I'm happy for you. I do, however, know a little more about this than you imagine. For example the Sirah is not one book, but a collective name for all the biographies of Mohammad containing mostly historical information on Mohammad's life and has very little Islamic doctrine. There are hundreds of different books that fall in to the category of Sirah (or Seerah). The Christian equivalent would be books on the life of Jesus that focus more on his history than his actual teachings.

Actually - a better comparison for the Sirah would be the Talmud. And like the Talmud there are different "editions" containing different texts - while still viewing it as one text - much like the Bible.

My point is that honour killings happen where ever islam is practiced. It's not something limited to one segment of the faith - but is something present through out the faith and justified by those who practice it BY the islamic faith.

FlaGator
03-27-2009, 02:58 PM
Actually - a better comparison for the Sirah would be the Talmud. And like the Talmud there are different "editions" containing different texts - while still viewing it as one text - much like the Bible.

My point is that honour killings happen where ever islam is practiced. It's not something limited to one segment of the faith - but is something present through out the faith and justified by those who practice it BY the islamic faith.

It can also be claimed that the other faiths justify their use of honor killings. Since the practice is common to several different faiths and the only commonality between the faiths is their culture then we can infer that the practice is a cultural one independent of the culture's faith(s).

I forgot, this from Wikipedia


Sīrah Rasūl Allāh (Life of the Messenger of God; Arabic: سيرة رسول الله‎) or Sīrat Nabawiyya (Life of the Prophet; Arabic: سيرة نبوية‎) (from Arabic سيرة) is the Arabic term used for the various traditional Muslim biographies of Muhammad, from which most historical information about his life and the early period of Islam is derived. The name is often shortened to "Sīra" or "Sīrah" ("life" or "journey"; Arabic: سيرة‎).


It was the best definition I could find that wasn't written in Arabic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirah_Rasul_Allah