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Apocalypse
04-02-2009, 07:59 PM
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/04/02/article-1166620-05702A670000044D-114_233x368.jpg Dignitas founder Ludwig Minelli said he plans to test the legality of helping a healthy person end their life alongside their terminally-ill partner




Ludwig Minelli, whose organisation has supervised the deaths of 100 Britons, said suicide was not just for those already dying but 'a marvellous possibility given to a human being'.


The human rights lawyer said there were no limits on who might be assisted to die, as long as they had the mental capacity to make the choice.


'It is without conditions,' he said. 'A human right is without any conditions except capacity.'


Mr Minelli dismissed concerns that assisted suicide should be reserved for the terminally ill as 'a British obsession' and called on Britain to legalise suicide.

He told BBC Radio 4 that the UK could even save money by allowing suicide.

'For every 50 suicide attempts we have one suicide and the others are failing, with huge costs for the National Health Service,' he said.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1166620/Suicide-demand-healthy-Its-marvellous-possibility-says-Dignitas-boss.html


This is just scary. I use to think Jack Kevorkian was a bit of a fruit loop, but this nut is making him look sane.

AlmostThere
04-02-2009, 08:31 PM
It really ticks me off that the State thinks it has the right to say whether I have the right to choose to die or not. Don't worry, it's not on my agenda. But as human beings, I think we have the right to make that decision for ourselves without the State's permission.

Before anyone says the State does have the right, please acknowledge the fact that if someone wants to do the deed, the only way the State can stop it is to lock up the individual under a 24 hr watch. What gives the State the right to do that to a supposedly free man?

I can sit in my home and smoke cigarettes until my lungs rot with cancer or sit and drink alcohol until my liver rots from alcohol sclerosis. Either way I'm dead and the State's only concern is if I paid taxes on the alcohol and smokes. So it seems if I kill myself out of utter stupidity it's OK, but if it's a thought-through conscious choice, that's somehow evil. Seems to me it should be the other way around.

Lanie
04-02-2009, 09:58 PM
He's a human rights person, 'eh? Bullcrap.

What type of a doctor suggests it's okay to kill yourself when your partner dies? Who would be okay with their partner killing themselves in the event they got terminally ill?

I actually do understand this idea of killing somebody who is terminally ill, suffering, and wants to die. I have mixed feelings on that.

But this guy here is nuts. He doesn't value human life at all it seems.

Lanie
04-02-2009, 09:59 PM
It really ticks me off that the State thinks it has the right to say whether I have the right to choose to die or not. Don't worry, it's not on my agenda. But as human beings, I think we have the right to make that decision for ourselves without the State's permission.

Before anyone says the State does have the right, please acknowledge the fact that if someone wants to do the deed, the only way the State can stop it is to lock up the individual under a 24 hr watch. What gives the State the right to do that to a supposedly free man?

I can sit in my home and smoke cigarettes until my lungs rot with cancer or sit and drink alcohol until my liver rots from alcohol sclerosis. Either way I'm dead and the State's only concern is if I paid taxes on the alcohol and smokes. So it seems if I kill myself out of utter stupidity it's OK, but if it's a thought-through conscious choice, that's somehow evil. Seems to me it should be the other way around.

I think if some had their way, smoking and drinking would be illegal.

FeebMaster
04-02-2009, 10:24 PM
It really ticks me off that the State thinks it has the right to say whether I have the right to choose to die or not. Don't worry, it's not on my agenda. But as human beings, I think we have the right to make that decision for ourselves without the State's permission.

Before anyone says the State does have the right, please acknowledge the fact that if someone wants to do the deed, the only way the State can stop it is to lock up the individual under a 24 hr watch. What gives the State the right to do that to a supposedly free man?

I can sit in my home and smoke cigarettes until my lungs rot with cancer or sit and drink alcohol until my liver rots from alcohol sclerosis. Either way I'm dead and the State's only concern is if I paid taxes on the alcohol and smokes. So it seems if I kill myself out of utter stupidity it's OK, but if it's a thought-through conscious choice, that's somehow evil. Seems to me it should be the other way around.

How could you be so heartless? Suicide robs your fellow man of any potential taxes you may have paid.

FlaGator
04-02-2009, 10:25 PM
It really ticks me off that the State thinks it has the right to say whether I have the right to choose to die or not. Don't worry, it's not on my agenda. But as human beings, I think we have the right to make that decision for ourselves without the State's permission.
Before anyone says the State does have the right, please acknowledge the fact that if someone wants to do the deed, the only way the State can stop it is to lock up the individual under a 24 hr watch. What gives the State the right to do that to a supposedly free man?

I can sit in my home and smoke cigarettes until my lungs rot with cancer or sit and drink alcohol until my liver rots from alcohol sclerosis. Either way I'm dead and the State's only concern is if I paid taxes on the alcohol and smokes. So it seems if I kill myself out of utter stupidity it's OK, but if it's a thought-through conscious choice, that's somehow evil. Seems to me it should be the other way around.

Putting the state and the terminally ill aside for a second, isn't that a selfish thing to do? What about the damage and harm you do to those who love you? Do you have the right to inflict that kind of emotional damage on others? This goes along with the Walter Williams questions in another thread. Do you feel it is moral to force some one to do something you desire and if force does not work then is it moral to inflict punitive action upon them to order to get them to do something you desire? And is that, in a broad sense, what suicide does to those who survive? Does it not intentionally force them to experience something that they otherwise would not have had to experience.

AlmostThere
04-02-2009, 10:26 PM
I think if some had their way, smoking and drinking would be illegal.

Are you going to legislate out of existence all of the dozens, hundreds, of ways someone can kill themselves through sheer stupidity? I don't think it's possible. Given my druthers, I'd like to choose my way rather than going by accident or ignorance.

AlmostThere
04-02-2009, 11:02 PM
Putting the state and the terminally ill aside for a second, isn't that a selfish thing to do? What about the damage and harm you do to those who love you? Do you have the right to inflict that kind of emotional damage on others? This goes along with the Walter Williams questions in another thread. Do you feel it is moral to force some one to do something you desire and if force does not work then is it moral to inflict punitive action upon them to order to get them to do something you desire? And is that, in a broad sense, what suicide does to those who survive? Does it not intentionally force them to experience something that they otherwise would not have had to experience.

I've given this subject a lot of thought and had some long conversations with family along these lines. I would hope that someone with family wouldn't up and kill themselves one day because of depression or unhappiness. Meds could turn it all around. The devastation that would cause would be hard to understand. But if that same person were facing an illness that no pill could alleviate and that was going to destroy their quality of life, I feel that thing we call human dignity gives us the right to determine when it's time to call an end to it. As painful as that may be for family members, this is one time in a person's life that I think they are completely justified in being totally selfish.

wilbur
04-03-2009, 12:22 AM
Putting the state and the terminally ill aside for a second, isn't that a selfish thing to do? What about the damage and harm you do to those who love you? Do you have the right to inflict that kind of emotional damage on others? This goes along with the Walter Williams questions in another thread. Do you feel it is moral to force some one to do something you desire and if force does not work then is it moral to inflict punitive action upon them to order to get them to do something you desire? And is that, in a broad sense, what suicide does to those who survive? Does it not intentionally force them to experience something that they otherwise would not have had to experience.

Guilting someone to do something against their will for the sake of one's own emotions could be called equally selfish.