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gator
05-31-2008, 07:18 AM
Why the US doesn't win wars any more:

by Leonard_Lawrence on Fri May 30, 2008 12:50 pm

1945- Rifles were made of wood and steel, shot a .30 caliber bullet and killed the enemy.
Now- Rifles are made of plastic and aluminum, shoot a .22 caliber bullet, and wound the enemy.

1945- The winning side used a US made .45 Caliber pistol, The losers used a European 9mm.
Now- We use a European 9mm pistol. Nobody uses the .45.

1945- If you smoked, you had an ashtray on your desk.
Now- If you smoke, you are sent outside and are treated like a leper.

1945- If you said "damn", people knew you were annoyed and avoided you.
Now- If you say "damn" you better be talking about a hydroelectric plant.

1945- NCO's had a typewriter on their desks for doing daily reports.
Now- Everyone has an internet computer, and they wonder why no work is getting done.

1945- We painted pictures of pretty girls on airplanes to remind us of home.
Now- We put the real thing in the cockpit.

1945- Your girlfriend was at home, praying you would return alive.
Now- She is in the same foxhole, praying your condom worked.

1945- If you got drunk off duty, your buddies would take you back to barracks to sleep it off.
Now- If you get drunk any time they slap you in rehab and ruin your whole career.

1945- You were taught to aim at your enemy and shoot him.
Now- You spray 500 bullets into the brush, don't hit anything, and retreat because you are out of ammo.

1945- Canteens were made out of steel. You could heat coffee or hot chocolate in them.
Now- Canteens are made of plastic. You can't heat anything in them and they always taste like plastic.

1945- Officers were professional soldiers first. They commanded respect.
Now- Officers are politicians first. They beg not to be given a wedgie.

1945- They collected enemy intelligence and analyzed it.
Now- They collect our pee and analyze it.

1945- If you don't act right, the commander'll put you in the stockade till you straighten up.
Now- If you don't act right, they start a paper trail that follows you forever.

1945- Medals were awarded to heroes who saved lives at the risk of their own.
Now- Medals are awarded to people who show up for work most of the time.

1945- You slept in a barracks, like a soldier.
Now- You sleep in a dormitory, like a college kid.

1945- You ate in a Mess Hall. It was free and you could have all the food you wanted.
Now- You eat in a dining facility. Every slice of bread or pat of butter costs, and you can only have one.

1945- We defeated powerful countries like Germany and Japan.
Now- We cant even beat Iraq or Yugoslavia.

1945- to relax, you went to the Rec Center, played pool, smoked and drank beer.
Now- You go to the Community Center and can still play pool.

1945- If you wanted a beer and conversation you could go to the NCO or Officers Club.
Now- The beer will cost you $1.75, membership is forced, and someone is watching how much you drink.

1945- You could buy quartermaster gas tax free because it was on a military reservation.
Now- AAFES charges you the tax but pockets the money themselves because it is on a military reservation.

1945-The BX/PX had bargains for GI's who didn't make much money.
Now- You can get better merchandise cheaper at Wal Mart.

1945- We could recognize the enemy by their Nazi helmets.
Now- We are wearing the Nazi helmets.

1945- An old Chief would sit in his office with a cigar in his mouth.
Now- He would be in less trouble if it was a penis.

1945- We called the enemy things like "Krauts" and "Japs" because we didn't like them.
Now- We call the enemy "opposing forces" and "aggressors" so we don't offend them.

1945- Victory was declared when the enemy was dead and all his things were broken.
Now- Victory is declared when the enemy says he is sorry.

1945- If you killed an enemy soldier, you could bring home his rifle as a trophy.
Now- If you bring home anything at all as a trophy you get a court martial.

1945- A commander would put his butt on the line to protect his people.
Now- A commander will put his people on the line to protect his butt.

1945- After the war, you could buy your own rifle off the government, cheap.
Now- You can't be trusted with your own rifle, and you'll be jailed if you ever get one.

1945- Wars were planned and run by generals with lots of important victories.
Now- Wars are planned and run by politicians with lots of important panty raids.

1945- We knew we were fighting for freedom. The country was committed to winning.
Now- We don't know what we are fighting for. The government is committed to Socialism.

1945- All you could think of was getting out and becoming a civilian again.
Now- All you can think of is getting out and becoming a civilian again.

Sonnabend
05-31-2008, 07:52 AM
Now- Rifles are made of plastic and aluminum, shoot a .22 caliber bullet, and wound the enemy.

Which military issue rifle fires .22 rounds?


Now- We use a European 9mm pistol. Nobody uses the .45.

In use today

Kimber ICQB (M1911A1 variant developed for MCSOCOM Det-1)
MEU(SOC) Pistol (.45ACP) (M1911A1 modified by USMC armorers for MEU(SOC). To be replaced by Springfield 1911A1 "Professional" models, as needed.)
Sig P229R DAK (.40 S&W) (USCG)
Sig SP2022 9mm/.40
Mk 23 Mod 0 (Heckler & Koch Mark 23; Pistol, .45 ACP) (special forces)
Heckler & Koch USP Tactical (special forces; often preferred over the Mark 23 pistol)
* Mk 24 Mod 0 (SIG/Sauer P226; Pistol, 9x19mm Parabellum) (Navy SEALs and other special forces)
* M9A1 (Beretta 92FS w/ accessory rail; Pistol, 9x19mm Parabellum) (Limited purchase by USMC)
M1911A1 (Colt Model 1911A1; Pistol, .45 ACP) (some special forces groups and USMC Force Recon)
High Standard HDM (Suppressed Pistol, .22 LR) (Navy SEALs and USMC Force Recon)
Heckler & Koch P9S (HK; Suppressed Pistol, 9x19mm Parabellum) (only used by Navy SEALs)
Heckler & Koch P11 ZUB (Underwater weapon) (Navy SEALs)


Now- Officers are politicians first. They beg not to be given a wedgie.

I think not
.

Now- Medals are awarded to people who show up for work most of the time.

No.


Now- We cant even beat Iraq or Yugoslavia.

Excuse me? I can think of a lot of soldiers who will vehemently disagree with you on this.


Now- We are wearing the Nazi helmets.

I wont even dignify this with a response.


Now- A commander will put his people on the line to protect his butt.

WTF???


Now- We don't know what we are fighting for. The government is committed to Socialism.

The soldiers of today know exactly what they are fighting for, and why.


Now- All you can think of is getting out and becoming a civilian again.

Right..thats why so many soldiers in Iraq re up in theatre.

megimoo
05-31-2008, 08:08 AM
Why the US doesn't win wars any more:

by Leonard_Lawrence on Fri May 30, 2008 12:50 pm

1945- Rifles were made of wood and steel, shot a .30 caliber bullet and killed the enemy.
Now- Rifles are made of plastic and aluminum, shoot a .22 caliber bullet, and wound the enemy.

1945- The winning side used a US made .45 Caliber pistol, The losers used a European 9mm.
Now- We use a European 9mm pistol. Nobody uses the .45.

1945- If you smoked, you had an ashtray on your desk.
Now- If you smoke, you are sent outside and are treated like a leper.

1945- If you said "damn", people knew you were annoyed and avoided you.
Now- If you say "damn" you better be talking about a hydroelectric plant.

1945- NCO's had a typewriter on their desks for doing daily reports.
Now- Everyone has an internet computer, and they wonder why no work is getting done.

1945- We painted pictures of pretty girls on airplanes to remind us of home.
Now- We put the real thing in the cockpit.

1945- Your girlfriend was at home, praying you would return alive.
Now- She is in the same foxhole, praying your condom worked.

1945- If you got drunk off duty, your buddies would take you back to barracks to sleep it off.
Now- If you get drunk any time they slap you in rehab and ruin your whole career.

1945- You were taught to aim at your enemy and shoot him.
Now- You spray 500 bullets into the brush, don't hit anything, and retreat because you are out of ammo.

1945- Canteens were made out of steel. You could heat coffee or hot chocolate in them.
Now- Canteens are made of plastic. You can't heat anything in them and they always taste like plastic.

1945- Officers were professional soldiers first. They commanded respect.
Now- Officers are politicians first. They beg not to be given a wedgie.

1945- They collected enemy intelligence and analyzed it.
Now- They collect our pee and analyze it.

1945- If you don't act right, the commander'll put you in the stockade till you straighten up.
Now- If you don't act right, they start a paper trail that follows you forever.

1945- Medals were awarded to heroes who saved lives at the risk of their own.
Now- Medals are awarded to people who show up for work most of the time.

1945- You slept in a barracks, like a soldier.
Now- You sleep in a dormitory, like a college kid.

1945- You ate in a Mess Hall. It was free and you could have all the food you wanted.
Now- You eat in a dining facility. Every slice of bread or pat of butter costs, and you can only have one.

1945- We defeated powerful countries like Germany and Japan.
Now- We cant even beat Iraq or Yugoslavia.

1945- to relax, you went to the Rec Center, played pool, smoked and drank beer.
Now- You go to the Community Center and can still play pool.

1945- If you wanted a beer and conversation you could go to the NCO or Officers Club.
Now- The beer will cost you $1.75, membership is forced, and someone is watching how much you drink.

1945- You could buy quartermaster gas tax free because it was on a military reservation.
Now- AAFES charges you the tax but pockets the money themselves because it is on a military reservation.

1945-The BX/PX had bargains for GI's who didn't make much money.
Now- You can get better merchandise cheaper at Wal Mart.

1945- We could recognize the enemy by their Nazi helmets.
Now- We are wearing the Nazi helmets.

1945- An old Chief would sit in his office with a cigar in his mouth.
Now- He would be in less trouble if it was a penis.

1945- We called the enemy things like "Krauts" and "Japs" because we didn't like them.
Now- We call the enemy "opposing forces" and "aggressors" so we don't offend them.

1945- Victory was declared when the enemy was dead and all his things were broken.
Now- Victory is declared when the enemy says he is sorry.

1945- If you killed an enemy soldier, you could bring home his rifle as a trophy.
Now- If you bring home anything at all as a trophy you get a court martial.

1945- A commander would put his butt on the line to protect his people.
Now- A commander will put his people on the line to protect his butt.

1945- After the war, you could buy your own rifle off the government, cheap.
Now- You can't be trusted with your own rifle, and you'll be jailed if you ever get one.

1945- Wars were planned and run by generals with lots of important victories.
Now- Wars are planned and run by politicians with lots of important panty raids.

1945- We knew we were fighting for freedom. The country was committed to winning.
Now- We don't know what we are fighting for. The government is committed to Socialism.

1945- All you could think of was getting out and becoming a civilian again.
Now- All you can think of is getting out and becoming a civilian again.

Nothing ever changes G.I's will always piss and moan !I would like to dig up a collection of WW2 soldiers bitches, I bet they would be much the same except for the woman in service.

megimoo
05-31-2008, 08:10 AM
Which military issue rifle fires .22 rounds?



In use today

Kimber ICQB (M1911A1 variant developed for MCSOCOM Det-1)
MEU(SOC) Pistol (.45ACP) (M1911A1 modified by USMC armorers for MEU(SOC). To be replaced by Springfield 1911A1 "Professional" models, as needed.)
Sig P229R DAK (.40 S&W) (USCG)
Sig SP2022 9mm/.40
Mk 23 Mod 0 (Heckler & Koch Mark 23; Pistol, .45 ACP) (special forces)
Heckler & Koch USP Tactical (special forces; often preferred over the Mark 23 pistol)
* Mk 24 Mod 0 (SIG/Sauer P226; Pistol, 9x19mm Parabellum) (Navy SEALs and other special forces)
* M9A1 (Beretta 92FS w/ accessory rail; Pistol, 9x19mm Parabellum) (Limited purchase by USMC)
M1911A1 (Colt Model 1911A1; Pistol, .45 ACP) (some special forces groups and USMC Force Recon)
High Standard HDM (Suppressed Pistol, .22 LR) (Navy SEALs and USMC Force Recon)
Heckler & Koch P9S (HK; Suppressed Pistol, 9x19mm Parabellum) (only used by Navy SEALs)
Heckler & Koch P11 ZUB (Underwater weapon) (Navy SEALs)



I think not
.


No.



Excuse me? I can think of a lot of soldiers who will vehemently disagree with you on this.



I wont even dignify this with a response.



WTF???



The soldiers of today know exactly what they are fighting for, and why.



Right..thats why so many soldiers in Iraq re up in theatre..223 slightly larger than a .22
used in that little black plastic rifle we use these days.

Sonnabend
05-31-2008, 08:13 AM
What the hell is wrong with women pilots?? They have good reflexes, can handle more gee....

megimoo
05-31-2008, 08:16 AM
What the hell is wrong with women pilots?? They have good reflexes, can handle more gee....How come they keep crashing on flight decks of carriers and get gang raped when captured ?

Sonnabend
05-31-2008, 08:45 AM
1. Women do not have a monopoly on flight deck crashes

2. Men have also been gang raped in prisons for decades, both in and out of war.

megimoo
05-31-2008, 09:05 AM
1. Women do not have a monopoly on flight deck crashes

2. Men have also been gang raped in prisons for decades, both in and out of war.


They had a series of incidents involving female Navy pilots as I remember, one involved forgetting to pull out of afterburner soon enough leading to an engine failure on one turkey/F-14 .The other one slipped off of the side of the flight deck on landing.

Considering the number of female pilots in the USN who were flying F 14's those numbers were close to sixty percent at the time and the admirals pay close attention to crash statistics .Navy Females pilots did well flying rescure choppers for a while !

These rapes occurred soon after capture and interrogation during desert storm after a army supply chopper went down . Rapes in prison are a different topic,don't you think ?

Sonnabend
05-31-2008, 09:28 AM
These rapes occurred soon after capture and interrogation during desert storm after a army supply chopper went down . Rapes in prison are a different topic,don't you think ?

My point is that rape has been used on both sexes as a form of interrogation/torture in wars.Frequently.

http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/VA-news/VA-Pilot/issues/1994/vp941122/11220618.htm


Navy Capt. Mark Grissom, commander of the Pacific Fleet's naval fighter wing and the officer who oversaw Hultgreen's training squadron, confirmed Hultgreen's achievements as a pilot.

Putting the grades in context, Grissom recalled his years as an F-14 instructor on the East Coast, where training is conducted at Oceana Naval Air Station in Virginia Beach.

``If these grades that Kara had, had been flown by a male pilot or anybody, I would have qualified him without a blink of an eye,'' he said. ``And it is not unusual to not have as good a boarding rate at night. There's no doubt in my mind Kara was well-qualifie

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=29276


http://userpages.aug.com/captbarb/pilots.html


Another of the first American woman to fly in combat in the '90s was Lt Col.Martha McSally, ranked as the top female Air Force pilot. Lt Col McSally was among the first women trained by the Air Force as a fighter pilot. During a 1995-96 (javascript:void(0)) tour of duty in Kuwait, she became the first woman in military history to fly a combat sortie in a fighter aircraft. She also flew more than 100 combat hours on an A-10 Warthog attack plane over Iraq in the mid-1990s, and served as a flight commander and trainer of combat pilots.

There have to be others like her out there, Gator..many women who can serve and fight.

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?storyID=123009983

Women B1 bomber pilots as well. They've proven their mettle..if they meet the cut, when why not? Same standards for all..if they make the grade, then why not?

gator
05-31-2008, 09:42 AM
Which military issue rifle fires .22 rounds?



In use today

Kimber ICQB (M1911A1 variant developed for MCSOCOM Det-1)
MEU(SOC) Pistol (.45ACP) (M1911A1 modified by USMC armorers for MEU(SOC). To be replaced by Springfield 1911A1 "Professional" models, as needed.)
Sig P229R DAK (.40 S&W) (USCG)
Sig SP2022 9mm/.40
Mk 23 Mod 0 (Heckler & Koch Mark 23; Pistol, .45 ACP) (special forces)
Heckler & Koch USP Tactical (special forces; often preferred over the Mark 23 pistol)
* Mk 24 Mod 0 (SIG/Sauer P226; Pistol, 9x19mm Parabellum) (Navy SEALs and other special forces)
* M9A1 (Beretta 92FS w/ accessory rail; Pistol, 9x19mm Parabellum) (Limited purchase by USMC)
M1911A1 (Colt Model 1911A1; Pistol, .45 ACP) (some special forces groups and USMC Force Recon)
High Standard HDM (Suppressed Pistol, .22 LR) (Navy SEALs and USMC Force Recon)
Heckler & Koch P9S (HK; Suppressed Pistol, 9x19mm Parabellum) (only used by Navy SEALs)
Heckler & Koch P11 ZUB (Underwater weapon) (Navy SEALs)



I think not
.


No.



Excuse me? I can think of a lot of soldiers who will vehemently disagree with you on this.



I wont even dignify this with a response.



WTF???



The soldiers of today know exactly what they are fighting for, and why.



Right..thats why so many soldiers in Iraq re up in theatre.

It was a friggin joke.

Since you never served in the military you don't get it.

Go back to being the male nurse thing or whatever it is that you do and leave the joking about the military to those who do get it.

Sonnabend
05-31-2008, 09:51 AM
It was a friggin joke.

Since you never served in the military you don't get it.

I get it fine.


Go back to being the male nurse thing or whatever it is that you do and leave the joking about the military to those who do get it.

Wrong by about twenty years.

LogansPapa
05-31-2008, 09:57 AM
I get it gator. Every point is true: Our nation used to lead the world because men had balls and used them.

gator
05-31-2008, 10:05 AM
I get it gator. Every point is true: Our nation used to lead the world because men had balls and used them.

Not quite.

The message is that we are more concerned with being politically correct than we are in getting the job done, which is Liberal poisoning. However, most of it was just general GI bitiching.

LogansPapa
05-31-2008, 10:07 AM
Not quite.

The message is that we are more concerned with being politically correct than we are in getting the job done, which is Liberal poisoning. However, most of it was just general GI bitiching.


Not having that experience - I can only take your word for it. On the subject of liberalism - I can only say, for the most part, you're dead on.

megimoo
05-31-2008, 10:47 AM
My point is that rape has been used on both sexes as a form of interrogation/torture in wars.Frequently.

http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/VA-news/VA-Pilot/issues/1994/vp941122/11220618.htm



http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=29276


http://userpages.aug.com/captbarb/pilots.html



There have to be others like her out there, Gator..many women who can serve and fight.

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?storyID=123009983

Women B1 bomber pilots as well. They've proven their mettle..if they meet the cut, when why not? Same standards for all..if they make the grade, then why not?

You forgot to mention this little fact :
"Kara Spears Hultgreen Lieutenant, United States Navy 'A Naval Aviator, she was the first female fighter pilot killed after the Department of Defense Risk Rule was rescinded. She was killed while making a landing on an aircraft carrier off the coast of California. She is buried in Section 60 of Arlington National Cemetery......R.I.P Kara !

megimoo
05-31-2008, 11:11 AM
My point is that rape has been used on both sexes as a form of interrogation/torture in wars.Frequently.

http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/VA-news/VA-Pilot/issues/1994/vp941122/11220618.htm



http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=29276


http://userpages.aug.com/captbarb/pilots.html



There have to be others like her out there, Gator..many women who can serve and fight.

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?storyID=123009983

Women B1 bomber pilots as well. They've proven their mettle..if they meet the cut, when why not? Same standards for all..if they make the grade, then why not?


Oceana Naval Air Station in Virginia Beach uses simulated carrier flight decks on blacktop for touch and go landings and not the real thing,It's more like an Air Force landing than a Navy landing .

How many female Navy fighter pilots are flying on carriers these days do you think ?

The Air Force has a number of female pilots some on B-52's as I recall.Flying those big hunkers and landing on miles of blacktop with drogue chutes is for amateurs .

Those critters would have nervous breakdown landing on a bobbing postage stamp sized flight deck at night durring a tropical rainstorm.

The Navy weeds out most shakey pilots during flight training before they ever see a carrier .The real reason those female pilots were allowed on board was because of political pressure to allow them into the system.


The Risk Rule was rescinded in 1994 by then Clinton Secretary of Defense Les Aspin and as a result more unqualified people died because of P.C. bullshit !

..............It figures Clinton again .

Sonnabend
05-31-2008, 11:15 AM
You forgot to mention this little fact :

No, I didn't

Read my post again. That first quote is concerning her death, by an officer involved.

And Megimoo, they don't have to fly off carriers. I mentioned an A10 combat pilot and a B1 pilot, both women.

megimoo
05-31-2008, 12:32 PM
No, I didn't

Read my post again. That first quote is concerning her death, by an officer involved.

And Megimoo, they don't have to fly off carriers. I mentioned an A10 combat pilot and a B1 pilot, both women.

Sorry I didn't 'chase' the link.At any rate flying supersonic fighter aircraft requires constant attention to the envoroment and details or you die.

Most Navy pilots are in their very early twentys and at the peak of their reflexes and vision,and most Navy fighter pilots have at least 20/10 vision

A-10's are very slow and well armored tank killers and ground attack aircraft .B1's are BUFF's and stay high and well above most conflicts.

Few men and damn few females are able to fly supersonic for any length of time without failing to stay ahead of their aircraft and running into trouble, add the combat enviroment and fewer still are up to it.

Again flying from blacktop runways is just for openers.If they want to play fighter pilot with the real pilots they need to learn to fly from flattops.Naturl fighter pilots like Chuck Yaeger and Randy Cunningham,now in jail,but thats another story .

Sonnabend
05-31-2008, 12:41 PM
I agree, which is why i said that the standards should not change. If they meet or exceed those standards...then why exclude them from combat because of their sex.

They will have proven their worth on merit alone.

megimoo
05-31-2008, 01:05 PM
I agree, which is why i said that the standards should not change. If they meet or exceed those standards...then why exclude them from combat because of their sex.

They will have proven their worth on merit alone.It's not their sex, per se, it in the nature of woman to react differently to combat situations.Their brains are 'wired' in a different way then mens and they respond in a different way to combat stress .

For example there is a delay in their 'fllight' instincts that will slow their getting out of there quick in a very dangerous battle situation and the reflexes needed to avoid a missile shot going by at several times the speed of sound.

It's not just woman but a lot of normal young men are unable to cope with decision making at supersonic speeds .

Sonnabend
05-31-2008, 01:10 PM
*nods*

OK, you've given me a lot to think on.

Thank you.

megimoo
05-31-2008, 01:41 PM
*nods*

OK, you've given me a lot to think on.

Thank you.Thank you and I am impressed. At last a rational human being to debate with,thank you for the rare pleasure .

AlmostThere
06-01-2008, 12:29 AM
General Ripper knew what the problem is. War is to important to be left to the politicians but unfortunately it is.

Sonnabend
06-01-2008, 08:37 AM
Megimoo, a correction, B1 does not stay high, they do often go low and fast.