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Milly
04-18-2009, 10:33 AM
Does anybody have an actual plan for getting us out of this mess? If so, who's enunciating it?

As much as I enjoy Glenn Beck and all, and as important as it is to educate ourselves on what is happening to our country, there is only so much we can do as individuals or even large groups unless we're working in concert.

The tea parties are a nice, feel-good kind of thing (Geez, I didn't realize so many of my neighbors agreed with me!), but someone, somewhere needs to be working on a cohesive plan. It sure isn't Michael Steele or the RNC! I really liked Ron Paul, but both he and Sarah Palin have been tainted by that snarky John McCain.

So who are we left with? Does anybody know of a Congressman or Governor that's making sense right now? Maybe somebody that's not in bed with Wall Street.

I mean this as a serious question. I need some hope for a change.;)

Rockntractor
04-18-2009, 11:14 AM
Bobby Jindal
Do some research on him. He is exellent !

megimoo
04-18-2009, 11:43 AM
Does anybody have an actual plan for getting us out of this mess? If so, who's enunciating it?

As much as I enjoy Glenn Beck and all, and as important as it is to educate ourselves on what is happening to our country, there is only so much we can do as individuals or even large groups unless we're working in concert.

The tea parties are a nice, feel-good kind of thing (Geez, I didn't realize so many of my neighbors agreed with me!), but someone, somewhere needs to be working on a cohesive plan. It sure isn't Michael Steele or the RNC! I really liked Ron Paul, but both he and Sarah Palin have been tainted by that snarky John McCain.

So who are we left with? Does anybody know of a Congressman or Governor that's making sense right now? Maybe somebody that's not in bed with Wall Street.

I mean this as a serious question. I need some hope for a change.;)
You voted for change and now you want hope?

The entire Congress is in the bag with the radical Obama administration and hell bent on
!: Undoing Boooooooush's America
2: Socializing America
3: Dumping Americas military power
4: Making sure those hated Insensitive, Conservative,Redneck,Patriotic,Old School,Constitution
Worshiping,Gun Loving,Queer Hating,Church Going Christians are never a power in America again !
5: Driving America down to the level of a Third World Country without defense,Security,any Military Power.
Obama is committed to the Full Liberal Monty and he means to have it his way ! He won don't cha know ?.

FeebMaster
04-18-2009, 11:47 AM
Step 1: Accept the fact that the vast majority of this country embraces socialism.

Step 2: Give up on national politics. Don't even vote. It just adds a thin veneer of legitimacy to the federal government.

Step 3: Avoid as much interaction as possible with the government and live as free as you can. Understand that if you decide to live too free, they will kill you for it. Find a balance you can live with, or die with.

Step 4 (Optional): If you still operate under the delusion that democracy can work, at least accept the fact that you are massively outnumbered at the federal level and will always be massively outnumbered at the federal level. Pick a state and try to win there. Frankly, with most states, your odds aren't much better than with the feds, but hey, whatever floats you boat. If you do pull off a win against all odds, cut ties with the feds.

Milly
04-18-2009, 11:54 AM
You voted for change and now you want hope?


That was a play on words, ya' know, since I emphatically did not vote for Obama.

That said, I guess it's back to the land for all of us, huh? No options?

linda22003
04-18-2009, 12:26 PM
Bobby Jindal
Do some research on him. He is exellent ! (sic)

The guy who told Cheney to stop criticizing Obama last week? :o

FlaGator
04-18-2009, 12:27 PM
The economy is a very complex beast and I am not sure if a sure fire plan can be devised. It is much like predicting the weather, you may have a good handle on things but you can't account for all the variables and one mis-step leads to even greater disaster. The only plan that I heard that I agreed with was to leave the economy alone and let it correct itself. That is what a free market economy is supposed to do. I don't think that th current plan of printing up a bunch of non-existant cash and the flooding the market with is going to help and in the the long term might make things worse. We shall see.

I hate to say it but with the way the government is dealing with this I am starting to agree with feeb in that we are already a socialist state, we just don't call it such.

djones520
04-18-2009, 12:37 PM
Step 1: Accept the fact that the vast majority of this country embraces socialism.

Step 2: Give up on national politics. Don't even vote. It just adds a thin veneer of legitimacy to the federal government.

Step 3: Avoid as much interaction as possible with the government and live as free as you can. Understand that if you decide to live too free, they will kill you for it. Find a balance you can live with, or die with.

Step 4 (Optional): If you still operate under the delusion that democracy can work, at least accept the fact that you are massively outnumbered at the federal level and will always be massively outnumbered at the federal level. Pick a state and try to win there. Frankly, with most states, your odds aren't much better than with the feds, but hey, whatever floats you boat. If you do pull off a win against all odds, cut ties with the feds.

I'm going to assume this is a joke.

FeebMaster
04-18-2009, 01:00 PM
I'm going to assume this is a joke.

Not at all.

djones520
04-18-2009, 01:17 PM
Not at all.

Then you got some issues. Because (and I'm sure your tired of hearing this), it's people like you that are letting this "take over" happen.

M21
04-18-2009, 01:28 PM
Not at all.


You nail it on all points my friend. Good post.

FeebMaster
04-18-2009, 01:35 PM
Then you got some issues. Because (and I'm sure your tired of hearing this), it's people like you that are letting this "take over" happen.

People like me have nothing to do with what's happening. You've done this to yourselves and it's been a long, long time in coming.

If you really want things to change, you aren't going to fix them by doing the same things that caused the mess in the first place.

But hey, go ahead and keep doing what you're doing. Cry about how it's everyone else's fault. Enjoy socialism.

Water Closet
04-18-2009, 01:51 PM
People like me have nothing to do with what's happening. You've done this to yourselves and it's been a long, long time in coming.

If you really want things to change, you aren't going to fix them by doing the same things that caused the mess in the first place.

But hey, go ahead and keep doing what you're doing. Cry about how it's everyone else's fault. Enjoy socialism.

Perhaps it's people who were willing to give up civil liberties in the "War on Drugs" and the "War on Terror" as long as there was an "R" in office, despite those who warned that when there's a "D" in office, you might regret this. Perhaps it's all those people who never cited any Tommy Jefferson quotations about democracy being the tyranny of the 51% when they were in the 51%. Now they can reap what they have sown and f**k them for whining about it.

djones520
04-18-2009, 02:05 PM
People like me have nothing to do with what's happening. You've done this to yourselves and it's been a long, long time in coming.

If you really want things to change, you aren't going to fix them by doing the same things that caused the mess in the first place.

But hey, go ahead and keep doing what you're doing. Cry about how it's everyone else's fault. Enjoy socialism.

Whose crying about a damn thing? This is a discussion to fix things. Not let it deteriorate into some wasteland that you need to vindicate your warped perception of reality. People like you who voted against the "lesser of two evils" did more to allow this country to get to this place then the rest of us who where willing to hold our noses.

I've said it to Gator, and I'll say it to you. Your perfect world is great. But it's NEVER going to happen. Nothing is ever going to line up exactly the way you want it, and your going to have to take some bad to get the good. When you have people like you telling others to just sit back and reap what you sow, all your doing his helping to speed this country down the drain even quicker.

Me, I'll keep doing what I can to fix this nation. At least I'll be able to look back at myself knowing I did something other then blaming other people.

M21
04-18-2009, 02:25 PM
I've said it to Gator, and I'll say it to you. Your perfect world is great. But it's NEVER going to happen. Nothing is ever going to line up exactly the way you want it, and your going to have to take some bad to get the good. When you have people like you telling others to just sit back and reap what you sow, all your doing his helping to speed this country down the drain even quicker.

So you admit it's going, read gone, down the drain and all you hope to do is slow it down? Great.

What exactly are you doing to fix this nation? Wake up guy. You think we lost?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emaeln--tzo

megimoo
04-18-2009, 02:32 PM
Step 1: Accept the fact that the vast majority of this country embraces socialism.

Step 2: Give up on national politics. Don't even vote. It just adds a thin veneer of legitimacy to the federal government.

Step 3: Avoid as much interaction as possible with the government and live as free as you can. Understand that if you decide to live too free, they will kill you for it. Find a balance you can live with, or die with.

Step 4 (Optional): If you still operate under the delusion that democracy can work, at least accept the fact that you are massively outnumbered at the federal level and will always be massively outnumbered at the federal level. Pick a state and try to win there. Frankly, with most states, your odds aren't much better than with the feds, but hey, whatever floats you boat. If you do pull off a win against all odds, cut ties with the feds.

Samuel Adams:
The liberties of our country, the freedom of our civil Constitution, are worth defending at all hazards; and it is our duty to defend them against all attacks. We have received them as a fair inheritance from our worthy ancestors: they purchased them for us with toil and danger and expense of treasure and blood, and transmitted them to us with care and diligence. It will bring an everlasting mark of infamy on the present generation, enlightened as it is, if we should suffer them to be wrested from us by violence without a struggle, or to be cheated out of them by the artifices of false and designing men.

Troll
04-18-2009, 02:34 PM
Does anybody have an actual plan for getting us out of this mess? If so, who's enunciating it?

I mean this as a serious question. I need some hope for a change.;)

It all starts with you.

Your post sounds to me like you're waiting for a leader to emerge. I don't think one will. I suggest a different plan.

1. Stop voting Republican. They are the ones to blame, not the ones to look to. They are acting conservative now so you will vote for them. They've pulled this stunt before - don't fall for it.

2. Tell your friends, family and co-workers why you're not voting Republican anymore. Some people need to have things spelled out for them.

3. Start writing your Congressmen. Tell them why you're not voting Republican anymore, and you tell them what the issues are - the FairTax would be a good starting place. If they were going to do this themselves, they would have done it already. If they don't get on board, vote against them. Vote every election, and when in doubt, vote against the incumbent.

4. Arm yourself.

5. As much as possible, get yourself out of 'the system' (this one might involve turning off your television). Pay off all your debt, take your kids out of public schools, start government-proofing your money, start taking dietary supplements instead of prescription meds, etc.

6. Start rallying together will other like-minded people. You'll have a lot of luck here if you learn the difference between a 'conservative' and a 'Republican' and never mistake one for the other.


someone, somewhere needs to be working on a cohesive plan. It sure isn't Michael Steele or the RNC

That wasn't so hard, was it? :D

FeebMaster
04-18-2009, 02:34 PM
Whose crying about a damn thing? This is a discussion to fix things. Not let it deteriorate into some wasteland that you need to vindicate your warped perception of reality. People like you who voted against the "lesser of two evils" did more to allow this country to get to this place then the rest of us who where willing to hold our noses.

I didn't vote against the lesser of two evils. I didn't vote for it either. Blaming things on us seems just a little disingenuous considering the kinds of people your ilk have been electing for the last century or so.



I've said it to Gator, and I'll say it to you. Your perfect world is great. But it's NEVER going to happen. Nothing is ever going to line up exactly the way you want it, and your going to have to take some bad to get the good.

What you fail to understand is that some of us don't see any good in what you're offering. Why should we take the bad along with this imaginary good?



When you have people like you telling others to just sit back and reap what you sow, all your doing his helping to speed this country down the drain even quicker.

It's inevitable. The sooner it happens, the less it's going to hurt in the long run.

You're better off positioning yourself to take advantage of it now, than attempting, and failing, to slow down the process.



Me, I'll keep doing what I can to fix this nation. At least I'll be able to look back at myself knowing I did something other then blaming other people.

I'm pretty sure you were blaming other people further up in your post, but that's okay.

I'm curious, though. What exactly do you think is wrong with the nation currently? Other than your boy not being in office, I mean. What's your plan to fix things?

Rockntractor
04-18-2009, 03:24 PM
The guy who told Cheney to stop criticizing Obama last week? :o
I am so aggravated. Every time you think you have a good leader they open their mouth. I had not heard that.

stsinner
04-18-2009, 03:29 PM
America has been flushed down the multi-cultural shitter where American ideals of generations past-you know, everything that made this country great, is the problem.. The only people allowed to be proud any more are non-whites, only multi-cultural mediocrity is acceptable to prove that we're, "Open minded.." Excellence is shunned by policy, and standards have been lowered to meet the new culture of America..
If you're white and you express an opinion about anything you're branded a racist, a protectionist, an isolationist or any one of many colorful labels the Liberals have for us. there is no bright future for America as we become more, "Diverse," with everything that means and they voting record of the growing segments of our population-exacerbated even more disgustingly if Obama gets his wish of amnesty for crimigrants and gives them the right to vote.. Bye bye, over-achieving America.. I hardly knew ye....

linda22003
04-18-2009, 04:03 PM
I am so aggravated. Every time you think you have a good leader they open their mouth. I had not heard that.

Jindal to Cheney: Lay off Obama
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0409/21321.html

Rockntractor
04-18-2009, 04:09 PM
Thanks for the link. Another fragment off hope smashed.

Milly
04-18-2009, 06:28 PM
Well, so much for that. It was worth a try, anyway.

In response to everybody, I am a moderate conservative who has registered as an Independant by default. Both Congress & Wall Street p*ss me off, since they're basically two sides of the same elitist coin. It doesn't matter to me if you have an R or a D by your name if you're a freaking jerk.

I'm not necessarily looking for a leader, just somebody within the power structure that makes sense and is as honest as possible in the corrupt arena known as the Beltway - sort of a female Diogenes.

I like some of what the Democrats want to do and some of what the Republicans want to do, but distrust the motives of both parties.

I refuse to give up trying to make things better, since I have two grandchildren that I love very much. Whatever I do from this point on is for them.

If the DHS is monitoring this, "Hi, guys!" The 'whatever I do' in the last sentence does not include violence, although I sure as hell feel like it sometimes.

ReaganForRus
04-18-2009, 06:52 PM
1. Repeal McCain- Feingold,

2. The election process starts September 1...selection of candidates will be done on actual, documented service in either the military, private sector, or on elected service. No candidate can run without submitting all their campaign financing before declaring for office.,

3. All ballots are numbered and documented by photo id and thumb print. No proven prior record of actual residence in state voids ballot. Proven actual knowledge of how the US system works.

4. election day is April 15,

once elected,

Put Congress and all federal departments on a base salary plus a rising pay scale for how much money they save the US taxpayer,....eliminate unions

No foreign lobbying under penalty of death,

Domestic lobbying is limited to campaign contributions of $1,000.00 each election cycle per candidate.
Total audited lobby contributions can capped at $50,000.

No self funding campaigns.

freeze spending with a mandatory 3% reduction per year from prior years baseline.

means test social security and medicare benefits, and

No lawyers can ever hold office.

Rockntractor
04-18-2009, 08:21 PM
Well, so much for that. It was worth a try, anyway.

In response to everybody, I am a moderate conservative who has registered as an Independant by default. Both Congress & Wall Street p*ss me off, since they're basically two sides of the same elitist coin. It doesn't matter to me if you have an R or a D by your name if you're a freaking jerk.

I'm not necessarily looking for a leader, just somebody within the power structure that makes sense and is as honest as possible in the corrupt arena known as the Beltway - sort of a female Diogenes.

I like some of what the Democrats want to do and some of what the Republicans want to do, but distrust the motives of both parties.

I refuse to give up trying to make things better, since I have two grandchildren that I love very much. Whatever I do from this point on is for them.

If the DHS is monitoring this, "Hi, guys!" The 'whatever I do' in the last sentence does not include violence, although I sure as hell feel like it sometimes.
I’m not intending to be critical of you but I had a similar conversation with a friend’s daughter today. I have a hard time when someone say’s they like some things the democrats do and some things the republican’s do. I also am registered as an independent I dropped the Republican Party Friday. I really don’t like anything the democrats do and could care less what their motives are. I am mad at the Republicans for becoming too much like the liberal socialist Democrats. Once again I care not what their motives are. What I see is the damage that results from liberalism.

Ranger Rick
04-18-2009, 08:22 PM
1. Repeal McCain- Feingold,

2. The election process starts September 1...selection of candidates will be done on actual, documented service in either the military, private sector, or on elected service. No candidate can run without submitting all their campaign financing before declaring for office.,

3. All ballots are numbered and documented by photo id and thumb print. No proven prior record of actual residence in state voids ballot. Proven actual knowledge of how the US system works.

4. election day is April 15,

once elected,

Put Congress and all federal departments on a base salary plus a rising pay scale for how much money they save the US taxpayer,....eliminate unions

No foreign lobbying under penalty of death,

Domestic lobbying is limited to campaign contributions of $1,000.00 each election cycle per candidate.
Total audited lobby contributions can capped at $50,000.

No self funding campaigns.

freeze spending with a mandatory 3% reduction per year from prior years baseline.

means test social security and medicare benefits, and

No lawyers can ever hold office.


I would change election day to the 16th.

Not sure "No self funding campaigns" would be legal. It is my money, I should be able to use to get elected.

Everthing else looks good.

Radix
04-18-2009, 08:56 PM
Does anybody have an actual plan for getting us out of this mess? If so, who's enunciating it?



Here is an idea........ Kiss your ass goodbye, and by the way, thanks for playing!

Remember that movie Ferris Bueller? At the end? The credits?

Are you still here?

It's over.

Milly
04-18-2009, 09:13 PM
Iím not intending to be critical of you but I had a similar conversation with a friendís daughter today. I have a hard time when someone sayís they like some things the democrats do and some things the republicanís do. I also am registered as an independent I dropped the Republican Party Friday. I really donít like anything the democrats do and could care less what their motives are. I am mad at the Republicans for becoming too much like the liberal socialist Democrats. Once again I care not what their motives are. What I see is the damage that results from liberalism.

Thanks for concerning yourself with my feelings, but I don't take it as criticism. This is a discussion. If everyone agreed with me there'd be nothing to discuss.

I guess i just believe I should give the devil his due. I'm sure once upon a time a Democrat did something I would agree with. I can't think of one offhand . . . :rolleyes:

At any rate, I don't believe in using the terms 'never' or 'always', because using them immediately makes you wrong. There is no 'never' or 'always' in life.

I'm not sure it's not enlightening to know what the liberals' motives are, either, but psychology floats my boat so maybe it's a personal peccidillo.

I do agree whole-heartedly that liberal socialism sucks. Unlike others on this board (you trolls know who you are) I will not abandon hope. I'm a 60 year old woman and I've got more fight in me than they seem to.

Rockntractor
04-18-2009, 09:32 PM
Thanks for concerning yourself with my feelings, but I don't take it as criticism. This is a discussion. If everyone agreed with me there'd be nothing to discuss.

I guess i just believe I should give the devil his due. I'm sure once upon a time a Democrat did something I would agree with. I can't think of one offhand . . . :rolleyes:

At any rate, I don't believe in using the terms 'never' or 'always', because using them immediately makes you wrong. There is no 'never' or 'always' in life.

I'm not sure it's not enlightening to know what the liberals' motives are, either, but psychology floats my boat so maybe it's a personal peccidillo.

I do agree whole-heartedly that liberal socialism sucks. Unlike others on this board (you trolls know who you are) I will not abandon hope. I'm a 60 year old woman and I've got more fight in me than they seem to.
I like you!

Milly
04-18-2009, 09:44 PM
I like you!

Thanks. Wanna' get together and go kick the crap out of Radix?

Rockntractor
04-18-2009, 09:59 PM
Let's just hope for your grandchildrens sakes that it's not over. Things are looking bleak . The minds and hearts of our people need to change. In most cases the politicians are just doing what their voters want them to.

Milly
04-18-2009, 10:17 PM
Let's just hope for your grandchildrens sakes that it's not over. Things are looking bleak . The minds and hearts of our people need to change. In most cases the politicians are just doing what their voters want them to.

Actually, if you check out the Rasmussen Polls (just as an example) the disparity between what the voters want and what Congress and the WH are actually doing is often quite far apart. These results add some credence to my opinion that the battle being waged in this country is not between parties. It's between very well-organized special interests and poorly-organized people interested in the general welfare.

Rockntractor
04-18-2009, 10:31 PM
Actually, if you check out the Rasmussen Polls (just as an example) the disparity between what the voters want and what Congress and the WH are actually doing is often quite far apart. These results add some credence to my opinion that the battle being waged in this country is not between parties. It's between very well-organized special interests and poorly-organized people interested in the general welfare.
Are you trying to give me a spark of optimism?

Milly
04-18-2009, 10:37 PM
Are you trying to give me a spark of optimism?

Where there's life, there's hope, as they say.

And I do think there's still a chance for something to be salvaged out of this mess, which was the whole point of my starting this discussion. It will take a while, but sooner or later the pendulum swings back.

Mythic
04-18-2009, 10:42 PM
Step 1: Accept the fact that the vast majority of this country embraces socialism.

Step 2: Give up on national politics. Don't even vote. It just adds a thin veneer of legitimacy to the federal government.

Step 3: Avoid as much interaction as possible with the government and live as free as you can. Understand that if you decide to live too free, they will kill you for it. Find a balance you can live with, or die with.

Step 4 (Optional): If you still operate under the delusion that democracy can work, at least accept the fact that you are massively outnumbered at the federal level and will always be massively outnumbered at the federal level. Pick a state and try to win there. Frankly, with most states, your odds aren't much better than with the feds, but hey, whatever floats you boat. If you do pull off a win against all odds, cut ties with the feds.

1. That is the exact attitude the left wants conservatives to take. The vast majority of this country does not embrace socialism. They embrace things that are socialist in nature, but that does not mean they all know what they are doing. Where did you even get that information?
2. We must do our duties and vote. Half the US did not even vote in this election, and many of them could have voted against Obama. McCain may not be the conservative we want, but I would rather have him than Obama. If you don't vote, you can't complain about government and our leaders.
3. That hardly makes any sense.
4. What are you a communist? Of course democracy can work. What do you suggest?

Here is a better way to help.
1. Be conservative. Don't hide it. Don't go along with the liberal crowd who think they own the world. Remind them that conservatives are out there and willing to fight for their beliefs.
2. Get active in politics. Encourage everyone to vote. The more conservatives vote, the better the chances are that something will happen. Don't sit around and complain if you wont even vote and try to help yourself.
3. Remember that democracy will prevail if the constitution is upheld. The United States of America is the greatest country on earth; remember that. It did not become a great country by copying Europe, it became a great country by revolutionizing government and economic policies.
4. Don't let other pessimistic conservatives or angry leftists bring down your spirits.

Like my signature says "There are days you are the pigeon and days you are the statue." Don't make yourself the statue by giving up.
"Life is a story; if you stay on the same page forever you will never finish it." Keep moving forward, and remember why it is so great to be called an American.

FeebMaster
04-18-2009, 11:33 PM
1. That is the exact attitude the left wants conservatives to take. The vast majority of this country does not embrace socialism. They embrace things that are socialist in nature, but that does not mean they all know what they are doing. Where did you even get that information?

That they're clueless and socialist hardly matters. They are going to vote against anyone who threatens their favorite government program. How far is a presidential candidate going to get who says they are going to eliminate the Department of Education or NASA or Social Security? How about one who says he's going to get rid of them all? Most of CU wouldn't even vote for him.



2. We must do our duties and vote. Half the US did not even vote in this election, and many of them could have voted against Obama. McCain may not be the conservative we want, but I would rather have him than Obama.

Just as many of them could have voted for Obama.

Better to drive voter participation down as low as possible. It makes it harder for the winners to claim they're operating under the mandate of the people with a straight face.



If you don't vote, you can't complain about government and our leaders.

If you voted, you agreed to abide by the results of the election and have no business crying about it if you lost. Chin up. Better luck next time.



3. That hardly makes any sense.

It makes perfect sense. If you want liberty, you have to take it.



4. What are you a communist? Of course democracy can work. What do you suggest?

Yes. Given my stated belief that the decent into socialism is inevitable and the suggestion that people should avoid as much interaction with the government as possible, I am obviously a communist. :rolleyes:

I made a suggestion in that point for people who believe in democracy. Win a battle you have the numbers to actually win. With luck, you can balkanize the US and then, if you like, form a new confederation or confederations among the states.

Frankly, just about anything is better than democracy. How about a monarchy? At least you only have to kill one asshole to change the system.



Here is a better way to help.
1. Be conservative. Don't hide it. Don't go along with the liberal crowd who think they own the world. Remind them that conservatives are out there and willing to fight for their beliefs.
2. Get active in politics. Encourage everyone to vote. The more conservatives vote, the better the chances are that something will happen. Don't sit around and complain if you wont even vote and try to help yourself.
3. Remember that democracy will prevail if the constitution is upheld. The United States of America is the greatest country on earth; remember that. It did not become a great country by copying Europe, it became a great country by revolutionizing government and economic policies.
4. Don't let other pessimistic conservatives or angry leftists bring down your spirits.

All any of that gets you is a McCain clone in 2012.

Re. 3: The Constitution means whatever the government says it does. The Constitution gave you the federal government we have today. At best, it's hopelessly flawed. At worst, it's working as designed.

Mythic
04-19-2009, 12:02 AM
My comp screwed up, it doubled posted.

Mythic
04-19-2009, 12:04 AM
Better to drive voter participation down as low as possible. It makes it harder for the winners to claim they're operating under the mandate of the people with a straight face.
So everybody should stop voting so socialists always win...that is a perfect plan. You go along and do that...

If you voted, you agreed to abide by the results of the election and have no business crying about it if you lost. Chin up. Better luck next time.
Wrong. I can say I did not vote for the person in office. I have more business crying about it than someone who didn't get off their lazy buttocks to vote. They were too lazy to vote, they have no reason to complain. After all, by voting I tried to get someone elected who would be less socialist. By sitting there not voting you aren't helping at all.

Yes. Given my stated belief that the decent into socialism is inevitable and the suggestion that people should avoid as much interaction with the government as possible, I am obviously a communist.
Well considering you said that people who believe in democracy are delusional...you don't seem to appreciate how fortunate we are to be in this country.

Win a battle you have the numbers to actually win.
If this logic was followed during the revolutionary war, the United States would still be a British colony. We were completely outnumbered and outmatched in skill by the British. Yet we won.

Frankly, just about anything is better than democracy. How about a monarchy? At least you only have to kill one asshole to change the system.
Really? That is quite in ignorant post there. You would rather live under a tyrant than have freedom? I was actually shocked by that post; you claim to be anti-socialist yet you attack democracy.

All any of that gets you is a McCain clone in 2012.
Actually, McCain failed step number one. He tried to lean left too much. He didn't stick to being a true conservative.

Everyone, I have the solution! Simply don't vote, lock yourself inside your house, and dont get involved in anything political! This way, a true conservative will definitely rise to power in the presidency!:rolleyes:

FeebMaster
04-19-2009, 02:19 AM
So everybody should stop voting so socialists always win...that is a perfect plan. You go along and do that...

Socialists always win anyway.


Wrong. I can say I did not vote for the person in office. I have more business crying about it than someone who didn't get off their lazy buttocks to vote. They were too lazy to vote, they have no reason to complain. After all, by voting I tried to get someone elected who would be less socialist. By sitting there not voting you aren't helping at all.

The bolded shows why.


Well considering you said that people who believe in democracy are delusional...you don't seem to appreciate how fortunate we are to be in this country.

One has nothing to do with the other.


If this logic was followed during the revolutionary war, the United States would still be a British colony. We were completely outnumbered and outmatched in skill by the British. Yet we won.

It's one thing to be outnumbered. This is more like the Battle of Thermopylae.


Really? That is quite in ignorant post there. You would rather live under a tyrant than have freedom? I was actually shocked by that post; you claim to be anti-socialist yet you attack democracy.

1. Socialism and democracy are hardly incompatible.
2. Democracy does not equal freedom.
3. I'll take one potential tyrant who most everyone knows has no legitimate right to rule over thousands with the holy backing of democracy.



Actually, McCain failed step number one. He tried to lean left too much. He didn't stick to being a true conservative.

And you all dutifully voted for him. In 2012, you'll get more of the same.


Everyone, I have the solution! Simply don't vote, lock yourself inside your house, and dont get involved in anything political! This way, a true conservative will definitely rise to power in the presidency!:rolleyes:

So, to sum things up; Your plan to fix the country, assuming you actually think anything is broken, is to do exactly the same things you've been doing. Top notch thinking. I'm sure things will work out really well for you.

FlaGator
04-19-2009, 06:50 AM
People like me have nothing to do with what's happening. You've done this to yourselves and it's been a long, long time in coming.

If you really want things to change, you aren't going to fix them by doing the same things that caused the mess in the first place.

But hey, go ahead and keep doing what you're doing. Cry about how it's everyone else's fault. Enjoy socialism.

That's a lot like watching a house burn down and being proud of the fact that you didn't ignite it. I am truly sorry that you feel that way. That is why the country is in the shape it is in. In order to feel free of blame you let the fire rage with no concern who get consumed. Sad... very sad.

Water Closet
04-19-2009, 08:20 AM
That's a lot like watching a house burn down and being proud of the fact that you didn't ignite it. I am truly sorry that you feel that way. That is why the country is in the shape it is in. In order to feel free of blame you let the fire rage with no concern who get consumed. Sad... very sad.

To extend your analogy, FlaGator, it's like watching a house burn due to two, competing firehouses. Each takes turns flaming the fire while, alternatively, the other pretends to be putting the fire out. Whether you refer to those two firehouses as Dems and Reps or Libs and Cons, makes no difference. Each side wants to extend government authorit -- fan the flames -- for their own purposes and when the other is in ascendency, the first simply pretends to be firefighters.

Let me give you some examples from this board. I noted to another of the mods that, of a sudden, since the elections, there was a renewed interest here in the fourth amendment, including the "right of privacy." Where was that interest prior to the elections? I've seen so many posts here wherein the author cited violations of privacy, e.g., searching the contents of laptops, to which the response was "if you don't have anything to hide, what are you worried about?"

Another example, which I reference above. I noted one of the long-time posters here cited a Jefferson quote characterizing democracy as the tyranny of the 51%. Where was that concern when, in general, those who were in ideological agreement with those here were in power? It seems to me that during that period most here were comfortable with "the tyranny of the majority."

Let's take a very specific example -- the use of executive orders to circumnavigate Congress. There was very little objection to Bush using these, but when Obama uses them, people here object to "the process." It seems to me you can either (1) consistently object to the process or (2) object to the specific content, but not to the process. If you do the former, you're consistent in your argument for limiting the powers of government; if you do the latter, you're simply a partisan. And the answer to partisans that echoed on this board where it consistently provided the "rationale of last resort" for the entire Bush administration was "You lost. Get over it!"

FeebMaster
04-19-2009, 09:56 AM
That's a lot like watching a house burn down and being proud of the fact that you didn't ignite it. I am truly sorry that you feel that way. That is why the country is in the shape it is in. In order to feel free of blame you let the fire rage with no concern who get consumed. Sad... very sad.

Says the arsonist...


On edit:

After further reflection, I find you analogy lacking. Here's a better one:

You see someone doing something incredibly dangerous and stupid. You tell them:

"Hey, guy. That looks dangerous. You're going to burn down your house."

To which he replies:

"SHUT UP I KNOW WHAT I'M DOING"

Then he predictably sets his house on fire.

You go inside to find him and he cries:

"WHY DIDN'T YOU STOP ME"

When you try to drag his mangled and useless body out of the flames he cries:

"PUT ME DOWN YOU IDIOT. WE HAVE TO PUT OUT THE FIRE"

And you find yourself wishing he'd just pass out and shut up already.

Mythic
04-21-2009, 09:23 PM
After further reflection, I find you analogy lacking. Here's a better one:

You see someone doing something incredibly dangerous and stupid. You tell them:

"Hey, guy. That looks dangerous. You're going to burn down your house."

To which he replies:

"SHUT UP I KNOW WHAT I'M DOING"

Then he predictably sets his house on fire.

You go inside to find him and he cries:

"WHY DIDN'T YOU STOP ME"

When you try to drag his mangled and useless body out of the flames he cries:

"PUT ME DOWN YOU IDIOT. WE HAVE TO PUT OUT THE FIRE"

And you find yourself wishing he'd just pass out and shut up already.
Let me extend on that even more.
You see someone doing something incredibly dangerous and stupid. You tell them:

"Hey, guy. That looks dangerous. You're going to burn down your house."

To which he replies:

"SHUT UP I KNOW WHAT I'M DOING"

Then he predictably sets his house on fire.

You go inside to find him and he cries:

"WHY DIDN'T YOU STOP ME"

When you try to drag his mangled and useless body out of the flames he cries:

"PUT ME DOWN YOU IDIOT. WE HAVE TO PUT OUT THE FIRE"

You then sit with him in the burning house instead of doing anything to put out the fire. When somebody walks by and encourages that everyone else try to help, you say that there is no point and the fire is already burning already so we might as well give up.


Socialists always win anyway.
So you are helping the situation by not voting for anyone how?

I'll take one potential tyrant who most everyone knows has no legitimate right to rule over thousands with the holy backing of democracy.
Democracy is a form of government in which the power is held by citizens. Thats its definition.
Definition of tyrant: an absolute ruler unrestrained by law or constitution


And you all dutifully voted for him. In 2012, you'll get more of the same.
So voting for nobody will help you get a president with an opinion closer to yours...the logic used is really something.

Your attitude is what causes this society to fail, and actually contributes to the problem we have in the United States today. Your idea of solving the problem is doing absolutely nothing.