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megimoo
04-19-2009, 10:37 PM
Same-sex "marriage" advocate desecrates Bible in public
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cD7Ccdm4z-4&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eaudacityofhypocrisy%2Ecom% 2F2009%2F04%2F19%2Fgay%2Dactivist%2Ddesecrates%2Db ible%2Dwhere%2Dis%2Dthe%2Dmedia%2F&feature=player_embedded

For some reason something can happen to the Koran and everyone’s all up in arms… Here’s a homo-Same sex marriage activist desecrating the Bible.
You need to a flashplayer enabled browser to view this YouTube video

http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/2009/04/19/gay-activist-desecrates-bible-where-is-the-media/

Gingersnap
04-20-2009, 09:55 AM
Well, to us a physical copy of the bible is just a book. It's not holy or sacred or anything. Some copies have historical or sentimental value. Nobody is going to Hell for throwing a bible around or doing worse. They can't desecrate The Word because the The Word isn't physically located in the paper and glue.

Muslims get torqued over this kind of thing because they think the paper and glue have some kind of spiritual meaning for them. The object itself is sacred.

Meh. :rolleyes:

linda22003
04-20-2009, 10:05 AM
Ah, good. The voice of reason has appeared. Thanks, Ginger.

PoliCon
04-20-2009, 10:11 AM
ginger - true - but it's amusing that the left sees no problem with attacking Christians in the way - but lose their minds if something like this happens with a muslim.

Odysseus
04-20-2009, 10:47 AM
Well, to us a physical copy of the bible is just a book. It's not holy or sacred or anything. Some copies have historical or sentimental value. Nobody is going to Hell for throwing a bible around or doing worse. They can't desecrate The Word because the The Word isn't physically located in the paper and glue.

Muslims get torqued over this kind of thing because they think the paper and glue have some kind of spiritual meaning for them. The object itself is sacred.

Meh. :rolleyes:


ginger - true - but it's amusing that the left sees no problem with attacking Christians in the way - but lose their minds if something like this happens with a muslim.
No, they lose their heads if something like this happens with a Moslem. The media attacks Christians because Christians won't riot, burn their magazines and papers at the newstands, issue fatwas calling for their deaths or otherwise endanger them. The worst thing that a Christian will do is call for a boycott and that might cost a few advertisers, but the controversy will actually increase circulation/viewership, so it's in their interest to generate it. Moslems, on the other hand, will murder journalists who offend them, ban their publications and destroy copies of them wherever they can get to them and otherwise impose their will through violence or the threat of violence. Both the media and the Islamists are classic bullies. They will attack those that they perceive as unable or unwilling to fight back, but will not attack those who will.

PoliCon
04-20-2009, 11:43 AM
No, they lose their heads if something like this happens with a Moslem. The media attacks Christians because Christians won't riot, burn their magazines and papers at the newstands, issue fatwas calling for their deaths or otherwise endanger them. The worst thing that a Christian will do is call for a boycott and that might cost a few advertisers, but the controversy will actually increase circulation/viewership, so it's in their interest to generate it. Moslems, on the other hand, will murder journalists who offend them, ban their publications and destroy copies of them wherever they can get to them and otherwise impose their will through violence or the threat of violence. Both the media and the Islamists are classic bullies. They will attack those that they perceive as unable or unwilling to fight back, but will not attack those who will.

so what you're saying is that leftists are basically cowards? :)

Odysseus
04-20-2009, 01:33 PM
so what you're saying is that leftists are basically cowards? :)

Yes. Prime example: Leftist icon and mass-murderer Che Guevara, who bravely executed "enemies of the revolution" but begged for his own life when captured in Bolivia.

stsinner
04-20-2009, 01:48 PM
Damn pillow biters... Why do they have to be so nasty? It really hurts their cause, just like the left.. They can't argue with well-reasoned, factual arguments. They have to get physical and just downright nasty.

linda22003
04-20-2009, 02:02 PM
Calling them "pillow biters" isn't nasty, though? :cool:

wilbur
04-20-2009, 02:17 PM
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/07/24/desecrated.jpg

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/07/the_great_desecration.php



By the way, I didn't want to single out just the cracker, so I nailed it to a few ripped-out pages from the Qur'an and The God Delusion. They are just paper. Nothing must be held sacred. Question everything. God is not great, Jesus is not your lord, you are not disciples of any charismatic prophet. You are all human beings who must make your way through your life by thinking and learning, and you have the job of advancing humanity's knowledge by winnowing out the errors of past generations and finding deeper understanding of reality. You will not find wisdom in rituals and sacraments and dogma, which build only self-satisfied ignorance, but you can find truth by looking at your world with fresh eyes and a questioning mind.



Publicly desecrated Qur'an and he's still alive and well.

enslaved1
04-20-2009, 02:19 PM
Ah, good. The voice of reason has appeared. Thanks, Ginger.

Where are the newspapers headlines decrying this man for torturing Christians by desecrating their holy book, like they all jumped on the headlines about Club Gitmo? Where is the ACLU to put an end to this terrible hate crime?

The guy's actions are his own. I don't like them, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. The point is most of the gay rights movement is about acceptance and understanding, but only for them. They don't have to be bothered to understand why some of us think they are wrong, or have a right to state that we think they are wrong. If I went to a gay rights rally and started tearing up Heather Has Two Mommies or the one about two princes falling in love, they would have my head on a stick, and so would the media, but this guy gets nothing.

AlmostThere
04-20-2009, 02:19 PM
so what you're saying is that leftists are basically cowards? :)

I think that it is not fair to lump cowards in with these little bullies. I can forgive cowardice, at least to some degree. But a bully who only goes after the weak can rot in hell.

stsinner
04-20-2009, 02:20 PM
Calling them "pillow biters" isn't nasty, though? :cool:

Believe me, if you knew my father and my upbringing and what they were called in my house, you'd applaud my restraint.

YupItsMe
04-20-2009, 02:25 PM
Calling them "pillow biters" isn't nasty, though? :cool:


Fudgepacker??:confused:

linda22003
04-20-2009, 02:35 PM
Believe me, if you knew my father and my upbringing and what they were called in my house, you'd applaud my restraint.

The less I know about all that, the better. :p

PoliCon
04-20-2009, 02:51 PM
I think that it is not fair to lump cowards in with these little bullies. I can forgive cowardice, at least to some degree. But a bully who only goes after the weak can rot in hell.

the weak? Just because someone is meek does not mean that they are weak.

AlmostThere
04-21-2009, 06:28 PM
the weak? Just because someone is meek does not mean that they are weak.
No insult intended. :o

Perceived weak because they don't knock him to the ground and stomp the ever-luvin crap out of him.

Odysseus
04-21-2009, 07:29 PM
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/07/24/desecrated.jpg
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/07/the_great_desecration.php
Publicly desecrated Qur'an and he's still alive and well.

Post that link to a jihadi site and see how long he lasts.

MrsSmith
04-21-2009, 07:55 PM
Post that link to a jihadi site and see how long he lasts.

He probably doesn't need to...just give it time to come to the notice of someone who cares. If wilbur thinks it's smart to spread it around the 'net, it won't take long...

Rockntractor
04-21-2009, 08:08 PM
He probably doesn't need to...just give it time to come to the notice of someone who cares. If wilbur thinks it's smart to spread it around the 'net, it won't take long...
The pages of the Quran in the picture is an english translation they don't attribute the same holiness to it as one written in arabic. They would consider it more of a commentary on the Quran. It is still playing with fire. People forget our southern border is wide open to any crazy that wants to come into our country.

Water Closet
04-21-2009, 08:51 PM
Just so I'm understanding this thread. No Christians have any problem with using pages of the Sermon on the Mount as toilet paper or from a photograph of the crucifix in a glass of urine. The ONLY problem here is the disproportionate coverage of the media that emphasizes Islamic outrage at analogous depictions.

If that's the case, good on everyone here.

Rockntractor
04-21-2009, 09:01 PM
Just so I'm understanding this thread. No Christians have any problem with using pages of the Sermon on the Mount as toilet paper or from a photograph of the crucifix in a glass of urine. The ONLY problem here is the disproportionate coverage of the media that emphasizes Islamic outrage at analogous depictions.

If that's the case, good on everyone here.
God will not be mocked . He will handle it.

Water Closet
04-21-2009, 09:05 PM
Just so I'm understanding this thread. No Christians have any problem with using pages of the Sermon on the Mount as toilet paper or from a photograph of the crucifix in a glass of urine. The ONLY problem here is the disprorportionate coverage of the media that emphasizes Islamic outrage at analogous depictions.

If that's the case, good on everyone here. :D

FlaGator
04-21-2009, 09:07 PM
Just so I'm understanding this thread. No Christians have any problem with using pages of the Sermon on the Mount as toilet paper or from a photograph of the crucifix in a glass of urine. The ONLY problem here is the disproportionate coverage of the media that emphasizes Islamic outrage at analogous depictions.

If that's the case, good on everyone here.

We don't worship those things or hold them sacred. We may be offended by someone disrespecting our feelings and beliefs but it's a free country. Did people die when the cross was displayed in a jar of urine? No. People protested, expressed their free speech rights, but I don't recall anyone being killed. The artist (and I use that term loosely) may have received threats but every group has their fringe elements.

Water Closet
04-21-2009, 09:08 PM
We don't worship those things or hold them sacred. We may be offended by someone disrespecting our feelings and beliefs but it's a free country. Did people die when the cross was displayed in a jar of urine? No. People protested, expressed their free speech rights, but I don't recall anyone being killed. The artist (and I use that term loosely) may have received threats but every group has their fringe elements.

Yes, indeed.

FlaGator
04-21-2009, 09:36 PM
Yes, indeed.

Bear in mind that some ideologies have fringe elements that are a mutation of the root philosophy and other ideologies breed extremism.

megimoo
04-21-2009, 09:53 PM
We don't worship those things or hold them sacred. We may be offended by someone disrespecting our feelings and beliefs but it's a free country. Did people die when the cross was displayed in a jar of urine? No. People protested, expressed their free speech rights, but I don't recall anyone being killed. The artist (and I use that term loosely) may have received threats but every group has their fringe elements.He is now dead and enjoying whatever forgiveness he asked of GOD !

linda22003
04-22-2009, 09:39 AM
He is now dead and enjoying whatever forgiveness he asked of GOD !

No, he isn't. Andres Serrano is very much alive.

FlaGator
04-22-2009, 09:55 AM
No, he isn't. Andres Serrano is very much alive.

I think megi confused him with Robert Mapplethorpe.

linda22003
04-22-2009, 10:04 AM
Megi? Confused? :eek: :p

wilbur
04-22-2009, 11:18 AM
Just so I'm understanding this thread. No Christians have any problem with using pages of the Sermon on the Mount as toilet paper or from a photograph of the crucifix in a glass of urine. The ONLY problem here is the disprorportionate coverage of the media that emphasizes Islamic outrage at analogous depictions.

If that's the case, good on everyone here. :D

Actually, if you desecrate a transubstantiated cracker, you'll see a lot of Christians acting like Muslims who just had their Qur'an trashed.

Cognitive dissonance at its finest.

FlaGator
04-22-2009, 11:21 AM
Actually, if you desecrate a transubstantiated cracker, you'll see a lot of Christians acting like Muslims who just had their Qur'an trashed.

Cognitive dissonance at its finest.

Perhaps you could provide us with an example?

Odysseus
04-22-2009, 11:28 AM
He probably doesn't need to...just give it time to come to the notice of someone who cares. If wilbur thinks it's smart to spread it around the 'net, it won't take long...
Maybe I'll talk to our S2 and ask him to recommend a jihadi site where I can post a link to his site. After all, what's the point of displaying your courage if it's not where anyone can see it?
Sound good to you, Wilbur? :D

Just so I'm understanding this thread. No Christians have any problem with using pages of the Sermon on the Mount as toilet paper or from a photograph of the crucifix in a glass of urine. The ONLY problem here is the disprorportionate coverage of the media that emphasizes Islamic outrage at analogous depictions.
If that's the case, good on everyone here. :D
No one is denying that Christians had a problem with Piss Christ and Chris Ofili's "portrat" of the Virgin Mary. But how many people died when the Christians rioted? Oh, wait, they didn't riot. They just wrote angry letters, a few protested peacefully, and some politicians tried to cut off public funding to those institutions that supported them, forcing those "artists" to resort to (shudder) the private sector (cue ominous music). By comparison, the Danish cartoons ignited:

violent protests resulting in more than 100 deaths, including arson attacks on the Danish Embassies in Syria, Lebanon and Iran, attacks on European buildings
death threats from Muslim leaders, including Mahmoud al-Zahar of Hamas and Haji Yaqoob Qureishi, a minister in the Uttar Pradesh state government, who offered a cash reward of Rs 51 crore (roughly $11 million) for anyone who beheaded "the Danish cartoonist" who caricatured Mohammad.
A consumer boycott was organised in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and other Middle East countries which cost Danish businesses 134 million euros ($170m), compared with the previous year's business.
Police in Berlin overwhelmed Amer Cheema, a student from Pakistan, as he entered the office building of Die Welt newspaper, armed with a large knife. Cheema admitted to trying to kill editor Roger Köppel for reprinting the Mohammad cartoons in the newspaper.
Two suitcase bombs were discovered in trains near the German cities of Dortmund and Koblenz, Youssef el-Hajdib and Jihad Hamad, and three suspected co-conspirators were arrested. The head of the Bundeskriminalamt (Federal Police), reported that the suspects saw the Muhammad cartoons as an "assault by the West on Islam" and the "initial spark" for the attack.
Danish police arrested three men (two Tunisians and one Danish national originally from Morocco) suspected of planning to assassinate Kurt Westergaard, the cartoonist who drew the Bomb in the Turban cartoon.
In October 2008, Ekstra Bladet published excerpts from an interview with Taliban spokesperson Qari Yousuf Ahmadi saying Danish troops in Oruzgan Province are a "primary target" of the Taliban because of the cartoons.

So, if you want to equate non-violent protests and a possible reduction in public funding to 100 deaths, millions of dollars in damages, specific terrorist attacks and a shift in targeting in a war zone, be my guest, but you'll pardon me if I don't.

Bear in mind that some ideologies have fringe elements that are a mutation of the root philosophy and other ideologies breed extremism.
Exactly, and as long as the extremists are the dominant group, the moderates, regardless of their numbers, will be impotent to prevent violence. In Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism and most other religions currently practiced, the moderates are firmly in control in terms of prosletyzing, conversion and violence. In Islam, the opposite is true.

Water Closet
04-22-2009, 11:45 AM
...
No one is denying that Christians had a problem with Piss Christ and Chris Ofili's "portrat" of the Virgin Mary. But how many people died when the Christians rioted? Oh, wait, they didn't riot. They just wrote angry letters, a few protested peacefully, and some politicians tried to cut off public funding to those institutions that supported them, forcing those "artists" to resort to (shudder) the private sector (cue ominous music). By comparison, the Danish cartoons ignited:

violent protests resulting in more than 100 deaths, including arson attacks on the Danish Embassies in Syria, Lebanon and Iran, attacks on European buildings
death threats from Muslim leaders, including Mahmoud al-Zahar of Hamas and Haji Yaqoob Qureishi, a minister in the Uttar Pradesh state government, who offered a cash reward of Rs 51 crore (roughly $11 million) for anyone who beheaded "the Danish cartoonist" who caricatured Mohammad.
A consumer boycott was organised in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and other Middle East countries which cost Danish businesses 134 million euros ($170m), compared with the previous year's business.
Police in Berlin overwhelmed Amer Cheema, a student from Pakistan, as he entered the office building of Die Welt newspaper, armed with a large knife. Cheema admitted to trying to kill editor Roger Köppel for reprinting the Mohammad cartoons in the newspaper.
Two suitcase bombs were discovered in trains near the German cities of Dortmund and Koblenz, Youssef el-Hajdib and Jihad Hamad, and three suspected co-conspirators were arrested. The head of the Bundeskriminalamt (Federal Police), reported that the suspects saw the Muhammad cartoons as an "assault by the West on Islam" and the "initial spark" for the attack.
Danish police arrested three men (two Tunisians and one Danish national originally from Morocco) suspected of planning to assassinate Kurt Westergaard, the cartoonist who drew the Bomb in the Turban cartoon.
In October 2008, Ekstra Bladet published excerpts from an interview with Taliban spokesperson Qari Yousuf Ahmadi saying Danish troops in Oruzgan Province are a "primary target" of the Taliban because of the cartoons.

So, if you want to equate non-violent protests and a possible reduction in public funding to 100 deaths, millions of dollars in damages, specific terrorist attacks and a shift in targeting in a war zone, be my guest, but you'll pardon me if I don't...

I was not "equating" anything, but merely trying to clarify what the outrage was as expressed in this thread. Note that the OP was not about Islamic violence related to religious artifacts, rather about someone who desecrated a Christian artifact (the Bible). I was simply attempting to concisely summarize the point I understood as expressed in previous posts, i.e., that Christians are not outraged by the desecration of their icons, but rather angry regarding the coverage (or lack thereof) of such incidents.

Odysseus
04-22-2009, 02:04 PM
I was not "equating" anything, but merely trying to clarify what the outrage was as expressed in this thread. Note that the OP was not about Islamic violence related to religious artifacts, rather about someone who desecrated a Christian artifact (the Bible). I was simply attempting to concisely summarize the point I understood as expressed in previous posts, i.e., that Christians are not outraged by the desecration of their icons, but rather angry regarding the coverage (or lack thereof) of such incidents.

Of course Christians and Jews are offended when Bibles and Torahs are desecrated (otherwise, the offenders wouldn't bother desecrating them), but we also find it offensive when the media fails to provide balanced coverage. It's a double whammy. The fact that gay activists feel safe in attacking Christians and Jews, who are, at worst, opposed to gay marriage and the gay lifestyle, but will not attack Moslems who will actually kill them speaks volumes.

Gingersnap
04-22-2009, 02:38 PM
I was simply attempting to concisely summarize the point I understood as expressed in previous posts, i.e., that Christians are not outraged by the desecration of their icons, but rather angry regarding the coverage (or lack thereof) of such incidents.

Christians do get annoyed and angry when the press treats these matters differently. Almost the entire press of the United States rolled over en mass to avoid publishing cartoons critical of Islam.

This, despite the fact that the cartoons sparked a legitimate controversy concerning freedom of the press on an international level.

When a ripped up quran was found outside a mosque a few years ago, an entire city started an investigation into a possible hate crime.

These differences in treatment have nothing to do with the respect, or lack thereof, that the press feels toward Christianity or Islam, it is completely because the news agencies fear criticism from Muslims. Muslims who do, from time to time, issue death threats and destroy property.

Water Closet
04-22-2009, 03:26 PM
Christians do get annoyed and angry when the press treats these matters differently. Almost the entire press of the United States rolled over en mass to avoid publishing cartoons critical of Islam.

This, despite the fact that the cartoons sparked a legitimate controversy concerning freedom of the press on an international level.

When a ripped up quran was found outside a mosque a few years ago, an entire city started an investigation into a possible hate crime.

These differences in treatment have nothing to do with the respect, or lack thereof, that the press feels toward Christianity or Islam, it is completely because the news agencies fear criticism from Muslims. Muslims who do, from time to time, issue death threats and destroy property.

I concur completely with your comments regarding the cowardliness of the American press in the cartoon incident and, in general, on the differences in public treatment of Christianity and Islam. I simply wanted to clarify the position that you articulated so eloquently earlier regarding Christians' attitudes towards artifacts and icons.

Gingersnap
04-22-2009, 03:56 PM
I concur completely with your comments regarding the cowardliness of the American press in the cartoon incident and, in general, on the differences in public treatment of Christianity and Islam. I simply wanted to clarify the position that you articulated so eloquently earlier regarding Christians' attitudes towards artifacts and icons.

Just because we don't believe that a bible has any sacred attributes in the paper and glue doesn't mean we are completely indifferent to the message sent by people who would destroy one.

Muslims are outraged by the mistreatment of the quran or their prophet because they believe this insults God or Islam or both. Christians are dismayed and insulted by 'Piss Christ' because they rightly understand that it is an insult to Christians themselves. Neither God nor Christianty is in any danger from what passes as modern art.