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AlmostThere
05-07-2009, 12:42 PM
http://news.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view/2009_05_07_Free_cars_for_poor_fuel_road_rage/srvc=home&position=also


Gov. Deval Patrickís free wheels for welfare recipients program is revving up despite the stalled economy, as the keys to donated cars loaded with state-funded insurance, repairs and even AAA membership are handed out to get them to work.

But the program - fueled by a funding boost despite the stateís fiscal crash - allows those who end up back on welfare to keep the cars anyway.

I don't know what to say. We're mad, simply mad. It's not swine flu. It's some sort of mass hysteria/insanity that sweeping across the country. Stay off of airplanes and subways.

stsinner
05-07-2009, 01:08 PM
http://news.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view/2009_05_07_Free_cars_for_poor_fuel_road_rage/srvc=home&position=also



I don't know what to say. We're mad, simply mad. It's not swine flu. It's some sort of mass hysteria/insanity that sweeping across the country. Stay off of airplanes and subways.

You said it-MASS hysteria.. Only in my retarded state-the first to honor the fag marriage.

lacarnut
05-07-2009, 01:18 PM
If the government gives the title to these moochers, a good many of the cars will wind up in a pawn shop. I did not know till recently that you could hock a car.

Giving a car to a welfare recipinent is just insane. Giving a home mortgage to someone with no income did not work out too well.

hazlnut
05-07-2009, 01:23 PM
On the surface, it does look pretty bad. But the story makes some points that raise some question for me:


The state pays for the carís insurance, inspection, excise tax, title, registration, repairs and a AAA membership for one year at a total cost of roughly $6,000 per car.

The program, which started in 2006, distributes cars donated by non-profit charities such as Good News Garage, a Lutheran charity, which also does the repair work on the car and bills the state.

Kehoe defended the program, saying the state breaks even by cutting welfare payments to the family - about $6,000 a year.

ďIf you look at the overall picture, this helps make sure people arenít staying on cash assistance. Itís a relatively short payment for a long-term benefit,Ē Kehoe said.

But Kehoe admitted about 20 percent of those who received a car ended up back on welfare, and while they lose the insurance and other benefits, they donít have to return the car.

So this helps 80% of the car recipients get off welfare.? The State is giving them cars which were donated by a non-profit organization. I definitely have a problem with the 20% keeping the cars. But, the point I'm trying to make is that before I formed an opinion on this particular program, I would ask certain questions:


Is the 20%/80% above or below the national average for this type of government assistance program?


The $6000 figure--isn't the state essentially waiving its own DMV fees? The only really cost here are the administrative costs + AAA membership. (an economist would probably say I'm wrong)


Finally, what is the average cost to incarcerate a low-level non-violent felony offender? Isn't this program cheaper than doing nothing to help people get back on their feet?


I don't see this as being liberal--when I'm coming from a position of asking:"What's it going to cost me in the long run to do nothing?" I see this as being pragmatic. Again, I'm not saying this particular program is good or bad--I would just want more info before making up my mind.

One more thing--if this program were started by Republicans, how would it be seen by the right-leaning media?

Rebel Yell
05-07-2009, 01:25 PM
Finally, what is the average cost to incarcerate a low-level non-violent felony offender? Isn't this program cheaper than doing nothing to help people get back on their feet?


Did you just equate welfare recepients with criminals?

noonwitch
05-07-2009, 01:38 PM
When very conservative republican governor John Engler first instituted welfare reform in Michigan, the state was giving recipients who participated in the Work First program $600 toward the repair or purchase of a car, so they could get to work. Public transportation in all parts of Michigan is mostly a joke.

FlaGator
05-07-2009, 01:42 PM
Did you just equate welfare recepients with criminals?

I think he was saying that it may help in keeping them from becoming criminals.

Rebel Yell
05-07-2009, 01:44 PM
I think he was saying that it may help in keeping them from becoming criminals.

So people on welfare will eventually become criminals if we don't find them a job and a way to get there? Sounds odd coming from Hazl. I thought he would say these are all good people who are just down on their luck.

lacarnut
05-07-2009, 01:53 PM
I am all for helping people down on their luck. However, you appreciate and take care of a car if you do some work to earn it. How about, requiring these welfare recipents to pick up trash on the highway or work on some other public works project until they find a job. In the event they find a job, pay for their own insurance. Don't think that is too much to ask.

FlaGator
05-07-2009, 01:54 PM
So people on welfare will eventually become criminals if we don't find them a job and a way to get there? Sounds odd coming from Hazl. I thought he would say these are all good people who are just down on their luck.


I don't think that was the implication either. Now I am speaking from my point of view not hazlnut's but anyone who is down and out enough has the potential to become a petty or small time criminal whether they are on welfare or not. The cost of a used car and insurance is cheaper than incarcerating someone and possibily a good investment if the receipent doesn't use the car from criminal activities.

FlaGator
05-07-2009, 01:55 PM
I am all for helping people down on their luck. However, you appreciate and take care of a car if you do some work to earn it. How about, requiring these welfare recipents to pick up trash on the highway or work on some other public works project until they find a job. In the event they find a job, pay for their own insurance. Don't think that is too much to ask.

I can get behind that too!

AlmostThere
05-07-2009, 02:52 PM
On the surface, it does look pretty bad. But the story makes some points that raise some question for me:



So this helps 80% of the car recipients get off welfare.? The State is giving them cars which were donated by a non-profit organization. I definitely have a problem with the 20% keeping the cars. But, the point I'm trying to make is that before I formed an opinion on this particular program, I would ask certain questions:


Is the 20%/80% above or below the national average for this type of government assistance program?


The $6000 figure--isn't the state essentially waiving its own DMV fees? The only really cost here are the administrative costs + AAA membership. (an economist would probably say I'm wrong)


Finally, what is the average cost to incarcerate a low-level non-violent felony offender? Isn't this program cheaper than doing nothing to help people get back on their feet?


I don't see this as being liberal--when I'm coming from a position of asking:"What's it going to cost me in the long run to do nothing?" I see this as being pragmatic. Again, I'm not saying this particular program is good or bad--I would just want more info before making up my mind.

One more thing--if this program were started by Republicans, how would it be seen by the right-leaning media?

True story.
Way back in another lifetime I lived on Harriman Lane in Redondo Beach, CA. I had a buddy you lived near by who worked at the same office as me. Our office was in Carson, CA, right off the 405. For you geographically challenged, that's a pretty good haul.

The whole time he and I worked in that office, he rode a 10 speed to work. Granted, weather is great 9-10 months out of the year. But those couple of months where it was kind of cold and raining, he was still out there riding.

I remember having a job once, WAY BACK, where I didn't have a car. It wasn't that it was broken down. I didn't have one. I would get up really early and hitchhike the 8 miles to work and then thumb home at night. Granted, this was in a time when people still picked up hitchhikers, but I found a way to get to work. I didn't sit at home and wait for the state to furnish me a ride. These programs are enslaving poor people to the state, not helping them.

Rebel Yell
05-07-2009, 04:09 PM
I can get behind that too!

I'm all for that, without the car. Hell, earn the check first, then we'll discuss a car.

hazlnut
05-07-2009, 06:26 PM
Did you just equate welfare recepients with criminals?

No, the opposite--read carefully.

hazlnut
05-07-2009, 06:35 PM
True story.
Way back in another lifetime I lived on Harriman Lane in Redondo Beach, CA. I had a buddy you lived near by who worked at the same office as me. Our office was in Carson, CA, right off the 405. For you geographically challenged, that's a pretty good haul.

The whole time he and I worked in that office, he rode a 10 speed to work. Granted, weather is great 9-10 months out of the year. But those couple of months where it was kind of cold and raining, he was still out there riding.

7-9 miles, pretty flat. South Bay area of L.A. is very densely populated, lots of opportunities.

I understand what you're saying, but is that realistically an option in Boston--maybe for part of the year?

BYW--I don't know when you were in L.A. last, but the weather is great 12 months out of the year. :D:D:cool:

75 degrees year-round. The only other place on earth has our climate is southern Italy.

lacarnut
05-07-2009, 07:21 PM
True story.

I remember having a job once, WAY BACK, where I didn't have a car. It wasn't that it was broken down. I didn't have one. I would get up really early and hitchhike the 8 miles to work and then thumb home at night. Granted, this was in a time when people still picked up hitchhikers, but I found a way to get to work. I didn't sit at home and wait for the state to furnish me a ride. These programs are enslaving poor people to the state, not helping them.

Same deal here: my first job in the golf business was working at a golf course 10 or 15 miles from my house. I got up early, walked 2 miles to the Greyhound bus station because the city buses did not start running that early in the am. Got off the bus and walked another couple of miles to the golf course. Worked there for 6 months and then got a job close to home.

Moral to the story; if you want to work bad enough, you can find a way to go to work. I don't care if you are car-less and live in Boston or BFE. Where there is a will there is a way. I bet if there is a free rap concert with Snoop Dog and M&M 5 miles away, those welfare recipients can get there by hook or crook.

AlmostThere
05-07-2009, 08:04 PM
7-9 miles, pretty flat. South Bay area of L.A. is very densely populated, lots of opportunities.

I understand what you're saying, but is that realistically an option in Boston--maybe for part of the year?

BYW--I don't know when you were in L.A. last, but the weather is great 12 months out of the year. :D:D:cool:

75 degrees year-round. The only other place on earth has our climate is southern Italy.

You're lying. :D Actually the weather is one of the things I hated most. Mon- Blue sky, Tue- Blue sky, Wed- Blue sky,Thurs- Blue sky, Friday- Blue sky, Sat- Blue sky, Sun- Blue sky, Mon..........

December, maybe January, probably not at late as February you get your cold drizzle.

I grew up in New Orleans where it rains everyday at 2PM. I moved to South Bay the end of June 1980. It hadn't rained in a few days at that point. It didn't rain for 188 days. I almost went insane from the climate shock. L.A. had some horrible smog during this time. I got my house in Redondo in 82 I think. I never saw a stretch like that 188 in 1980 but the Beach Boys are right. I left around the end of 83/start of 84. Just wasn't for me.

noonwitch
05-08-2009, 09:00 AM
True story.
Way back in another lifetime I lived on Harriman Lane in Redondo Beach, CA. I had a buddy you lived near by who worked at the same office as me. Our office was in Carson, CA, right off the 405. For you geographically challenged, that's a pretty good haul.

The whole time he and I worked in that office, he rode a 10 speed to work. Granted, weather is great 9-10 months out of the year. But those couple of months where it was kind of cold and raining, he was still out there riding.

I remember having a job once, WAY BACK, where I didn't have a car. It wasn't that it was broken down. I didn't have one. I would get up really early and hitchhike the 8 miles to work and then thumb home at night. Granted, this was in a time when people still picked up hitchhikers, but I found a way to get to work. I didn't sit at home and wait for the state to furnish me a ride. These programs are enslaving poor people to the state, not helping them.



There's a developmentally delayed guy who works as a bagger at one of the high-end grocery stores in Royal Oak. He rides his bike to work every day, about 3 or 4 miles.