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Constitutionally Speaking
05-16-2009, 07:38 AM
http://cmsimg.detnews.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=C3&Date=20090515&Category=METRO&ArtNo=905150392&Ref=AR


It was supposed to be a shining example of the green movement -- a completely independent solar-powered house with no gas or electrical hookups.

Seven months ago, officials gathered for a ribbon-cutting ceremony to celebrate the $900,000 house owned by the city of Troy that was to be used as an educational tool and meeting spot.

But it never opened to the public. And it remains closed.

Frozen pipes during the winter caused $16,000 in damage to floors, and city officials aren't sure when the house at the Troy Community Center will open.

"It's not safe right now, and there's no estimated opening time because it depends on when we can get funding," said Carol Anderson, director of the city's Parks and Recreation Department.

-----------------------------------------<snip>---------------------------------


Jeff Biegler, superintendent of parks for the city, said the flooding occurred from a glitch in the heater.

"The system was designed to kick a heater on to keep water from freezing," Biegler said. "The heater drew all reserve power out of the battery causing the system to back down and the pipes froze."


http://www.detnews.com/article/20090515/METRO/905150392/Troy-s-celebrated-solar-house-left-in-dark/?imw=Y





$900,000.00 for an 800 sq foot TRAILER!! Yep,! Let's all go get us some of them Obama bucks and live in one of these death traps!!!

megimoo
05-16-2009, 09:50 AM
http://cmsimg.detnews.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=C3&Date=20090515&Category=METRO&ArtNo=905150392&Ref=AR


It was supposed to be a shining example of the green movement -- a completely independent solar-powered house with no gas or electrical hookups.

Seven months ago, officials gathered for a ribbon-cutting ceremony to celebrate the $900,000 house owned by the city of Troy that was to be used as an educational tool and meeting spot.

But it never opened to the public. And it remains closed.

Frozen pipes during the winter caused $16,000 in damage to floors, and city officials aren't sure when the house at the Troy Community Center will open.

"It's not safe right now, and there's no estimated opening time because it depends on when we can get funding," said Carol Anderson, director of the city's Parks and Recreation Department.

-----------------------------------------<snip>---------------------------------


Jeff Biegler, superintendent of parks for the city, said the flooding occurred from a glitch in the heater.

"The system was designed to kick a heater on to keep water from freezing," Biegler said. "The heater drew all reserve power out of the battery causing the system to back down and the pipes froze."


http://www.detnews.com/article/20090515/METRO/905150392/Troy-s-celebrated-solar-house-left-in-dark/?imw=Y





$900,000.00 for an 800 sq foot TRAILER!! Yep,! Let's all go get us some of them Obama bucks and live in one of these death traps!!!It must have been designed by some Southern California liberal fruit loop Architect.That thing looks more like the dugout at some little league field than a house !

A solar powered system so far north that the pipes freeze in the winter ?I wonder if they ever heard of passive continuous solar heat storage and running waterpipes above ground to keep from freezing ?

Rockntractor
05-16-2009, 10:24 AM
These are the engineers of our future.

Japandroid
05-16-2009, 12:14 PM
Consume, consume, consume and dont think of the consequences. Just gobble down as much oil as you possibly can, while you can, and wait for that day where a gallon of gas costs $8.00. The condemnation of all things non-oil here is ridiculous, do you not want an alternative to something we import from Saudi fucking Arabia?

Rockntractor
05-16-2009, 12:17 PM
Consume, consume, consume and dont think of the consequences. Just gobble down as much oil as you possibly can, while you can, and wait for that day where a gallon of gas costs $8.00. The condemnation of all things non-oil here is ridiculous, do you not want an alternative to something we import from Saudi fucking Arabia?
Is your home 100% powered by renewable energy?

Lager
05-16-2009, 12:32 PM
Consume, consume, consume and dont think of the consequences. Just gobble down as much oil as you possibly can, while you can, and wait for that day where a gallon of gas costs $8.00. The condemnation of all things non-oil here is ridiculous, do you not want an alternative to something we import from Saudi fucking Arabia?

Most of our oil is imported from Canada, isn't it? Not to ruin your well written scolding or anything. It looks like a lot of work went into it.

Japandroid
05-16-2009, 12:37 PM
Most of our oil is imported from Canada, isn't it? Not to ruin your well written scolding or anything. It looks like a lot of work went into it.
We get only about 30% of our oil from Canada and Mexico. If you think we can sustain our current consumption levels on just 30% of what were getting now you're out of your mind. We can barely sustain this out-of-control behavior with oil from everyone.

Japandroid
05-16-2009, 12:38 PM
Is your home 100% powered by renewable energy?

If I had any say in the matter it would be. Energy companies dont abide by anti-trust laws so they can do whatever they want and I have to buy it or live in the dark.

megimoo
05-16-2009, 12:44 PM
Consume, consume, consume and dont think of the consequences. Just gobble down as much oil as you possibly can, while you can, and wait for that day where a gallon of gas costs $8.00. The condemnation of all things non-oil here is ridiculous, do you not want an alternative to something we import from Saudi fucking Arabia?
We've more oil reserves off shore and underground than most of the MidEast Oil Arabs !Your liddle TreeHumping Buddy's will not let us drill!They own Congress lock stock and barrel and pour money into their slush funds so the get what they want !Feinstein,Reid,Boxer and The big bopper Pelosi are all in the bag for the Spotted Owl Club .

SarasotaRepub
05-16-2009, 12:45 PM
Renewable energy sources are fine and I applaud their use but the
"house" in this article is an example of things taken to a extreme
in the WRONG place.

Now had they built this trailer in FL it would not be sitting flooded
and no doubt rotting. Great job there Troy!!:rolleyes::D This will surely
cause people to want a house like this in droves!!!

Japandroid
05-16-2009, 12:46 PM
Drilling will not fix the long-term problem. Nuclear plants, increased funding for renewable energy research and revised consumption habits will.

The US oil reserves will last us something like 3 months, and it'll cost like $1,000 to fill up your car in that time.

Japandroid
05-16-2009, 12:49 PM
Solar panels really dont make much sense to begin with. This shack cost $900,000 if the article is correct, how long would it take for this house to save $900,000 on it's energy bill? Like the year 2800. But their heart is in the right place, and if the technology for solar power ever gets the point where it's cost effective and feasible it's a pretty damn good way of getting energy.

Failures like this are where lessons hopefully can be learned.

Lager
05-16-2009, 12:53 PM
We get only about 30% of our oil from Canada and Mexico. If you think we can sustain our current consumption levels on just 30% of what were getting now you're out of your mind. We can barely sustain this out-of-control behavior with oil from everyone.

The perfect remedy for reducing consumption of oil occured when gas prices went up to around 4 dollars a gallon. But instead of being happy, most libs, as evidenced by those on the du, were furious at how much reducing our dependence was costing them personally. It appears shared sacrifice for a worthy cause benefiting the planet has its limits. The high gas prices led to a sinking economy, both of which led to the election of Mr. Obama, and now gas is down to price where it's not noticable, and therefore, not important enough to worry about conserving or wasting it.

megimoo
05-16-2009, 12:57 PM
Consume, consume, consume and dont think of the consequences. Just gobble down as much oil as you possibly can, while you can, and wait for that day where a gallon of gas costs $8.00. The condemnation of all things non-oil here is ridiculous, do you not want an alternative to something we import from Saudi fucking Arabia?They just bounced you from loonieVille at the dump .If you had trouble there getting along with the Circus Freaks there you're in deep dodo here !

SarasotaRepub
05-16-2009, 12:58 PM
Solar panels really don't make much sense to begin with. This shack cost $900,000 if the article is correct, how long would it take for this house to save $900,000 on it's energy bill? Like the year 2800. But their heart is in the right place, and if the technology for solar power ever gets the point where it's cost effective and feasible it's a pretty damn good way of getting energy.

Failures like this are where lessons hopefully can be learned.

Well they are good as long as they are used in the right area of the country. Solar powered hot water heaters are very popular in FL and other states in the South and can save ya a ton of money. Solar panels to generate electricity need big battery banks and even in the South I'd still want my place hooked to the grid just in case. It would also help if it was law that you could sell excess power back to the power companies to help offset the panel costs.

Solar power is cool but the technology has a way to go yet. I'd like to see President Obama put some big bucks into its research and leave some other things like Healthcare alone. :D

Japandroid
05-16-2009, 12:59 PM
I sold my car over the summer because of oil prices and I've grown to enjoy walking and using my bicycle. I understand for people not in an urban environment or who have to do heavy moving that's really not feasible, but a majority of people in America live in the cities are you really dont need a car. Public transportation and your legs will do you just fine and you save tons of money. Just breaking the addiction to oil is a hard thing to do at first.

Japandroid
05-16-2009, 01:01 PM
Well they are good as long as they are used in the right area of the country. Solar powered hot water heaters are very popular in FL and other states in the South and can save ya a ton of money. Solar panels to generate electricity need big battery banks and even in the South I'd still want my place hooked to the grid just in case. It would also help if it was law that you could sell excess power back to the power companies to help offset the panel costs.

Solar power is cool but the technology has a way to go yet. I'd like to see President Obama put some big bucks into its research and leave some other things like Healthcare alone. :D

I'm not going to touch healthcare :p

But yeah, I would've liked to see a lot more of the stimulus bill go towards renewable energy. I think that's our ticket to a new era of American prosperity.

lacarnut
05-16-2009, 01:06 PM
Solar panels really dont make much sense to begin with. This shack cost $900,000 if the article is correct, how long would it take for this house to save $900,000 on it's energy bill? Like the year 2800. But their heart is in the right place, and if the technology for solar power ever gets the point where it's cost effective and feasible it's a pretty damn good way of getting energy.

Failures like this are where lessons hopefully can be learned.

You stated that a nuke plant was going to break ground in 2009. I asked in what state. Answer the question!

BTW, Ethanol is a dumb ass idea. Not only does it use as much energy to produce a gal of this crap but in the mfg. process is a heavy pollutor. The EPA/Congress raised the level of pollutants in the air that these dirty plants emit while cooking the corn so that they would be in compliance of quality air standards required by the EPA. That is a fact.

Natural gas should be what the Congress and the Obummer are touting rather than pissing money down a rat hole with solar, wind and Ethanol. All combined green energy makes up 2% of our total energy production. Brownouts have occured where wind turbines have been in installed in west TX. You really don't know crap about the energy business do you?

SarasotaRepub
05-16-2009, 01:08 PM
I'm not going to touch healthcare :p

But yeah, I would've liked to see a lot more of the stimulus bill go towards renewable energy. I think that's our ticket to a new era of American prosperity.

Hey, it couldn't hurt...maybe. :D

Rockntractor
05-16-2009, 01:08 PM
If I had any say in the matter it would be. Energy companies dont abide by anti-trust laws so they can do whatever they want and I have to buy it or live in the dark.
You do have a say! between windmills ,solar panels, biofuels take your pick the choice is yours. I heat with wood and run all my trucks on waste motor oil. Thats right waste engine oil is what iI burn in my trucks! I grow all of my own food even milk and cheese. The free market is full of oppertunities. Use them hypocrite!

megimoo
05-16-2009, 01:13 PM
Drilling will not fix the long-term problem. Nuclear plants, increased funding for renewable energy research and revised consumption habits will.

The US oil reserves will last us something like 3 months, and it'll cost like $1,000 to fill up your car in that time.Now where did you get that figure Herman.Three months ?We have located enough crude just in the Northern Slopes Of Alaska Enough Oil Reserves To Supply USA For More Than 200 Years .

Japandroid
05-16-2009, 01:22 PM
That depends a lot on who you ask. People are being paid to say different things on how much oil the US really has.

Rockntractor
05-16-2009, 01:39 PM
That depends a lot on who you ask. People are being paid to say different things on how much oil the US really has.
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/20080611RZ1AP-Anwr.jpg?t=1242495502

Odysseus
05-16-2009, 01:47 PM
I sold my car over the summer because of oil prices and I've grown to enjoy walking and using my bicycle. I understand for people not in an urban environment or who have to do heavy moving that's really not feasible, but a majority of people in America live in the cities are you really dont need a car. Public transportation and your legs will do you just fine and you save tons of money. Just breaking the addiction to oil is a hard thing to do at first.

Fewer people than you think live close enough to mass transit to make it feasible, and besides, who are you to decide what the majority of Americans really need? That's the beauty of a free market, we make our own choices.

Zathras
05-16-2009, 02:17 PM
Now where did you get that figure Herman.Three months ?We have located enough crude just in the Northern Slopes Of Alaska Enough Oil Reserves To Supply USA For More Than 200 Years .

Now, there you go again Meg, confusing the DUmbass Japandroid with facts.

Zathras
05-16-2009, 02:18 PM
That depends a lot on who you ask. People are being paid to say different things on how much oil the US really has.

Including the people you get your "facts" from?

megimoo
05-16-2009, 02:28 PM
That depends a lot on who you ask. People are being paid to say different things on how much oil the US really has.
Where do you get your quasi facts from Gomez ?Is it Koss,Huff And Puff Or Move On or Perhaps Media Matters ?

AmPat
05-16-2009, 04:04 PM
run all my trucks on waste motor oil. Thats right waste engine oil is what iI burn in my trucks! I grow!

??? I want the details. Where do I get the information?:confused:

Rockntractor
05-16-2009, 04:25 PM
??? I want the details. Where do I get the information?:confused:

http://www.thedieselgarage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54581

Read through this thread if you have any questions PM me. DO NOT TRY THIS ON 24VALVE CUMMINS!! I use it in ford and International diesels. Now that the price of diesel is lower iI use a 50/50 blend when prices were higher I ran up to 75% waste oil.

lacarnut
05-16-2009, 04:37 PM
Where do you get your quasi facts from Gomez ?Is it Koss,Huff And Puff Or Move On or Perhaps Media Matters ?

He does not have any facts. He can not even tell where a new nuke plant is breaking ground in 2009. Like most liberals, he lies a lot.

Lars1701a
05-16-2009, 04:44 PM
Waste oil from trucks and cars can be reused all they have to do is filter out the dirt and other particles.

Then its as good as new.

Troll
05-16-2009, 05:58 PM
Renewable energy sources are fine and I applaud their use but the
"house" in this article is an example of things taken to a extreme in the WRONG place.

Pretty much my thoughts on the matter.

Japandroid, please don't think that conservatives have anything against clean/green/renewable energy. We recognize the necessity and potential benefits, but we question the short-term viability. Oil is the best we've got for now.

Plus, a lot of us are of the opinion that most eco-liberals don't really care about the environment - their problem is with capitalism. So when the 'Big Solar' companies start posting too much profit in the year 2100, and their corporate HQ buildings get just a few stories too high, and they start employing just a few too many people, the leftists will start complaining how evil it is that we're exploiting poor old Mr. Sun. So when we see liberal pet-projects fail, we all reserve the right to have a good laugh at their expense. :D

megimoo
05-16-2009, 07:17 PM
Waste oil from trucks and cars can be reused all they have to do is filter out the dirt and other particles.

Then its as good as new.Except for any chemical residues !

Lars1701a
05-16-2009, 07:18 PM
Pretty much my thoughts on the matter.

Japandroid, please don't think that conservatives have anything against clean/green/renewable energy. We recognize the necessity and potential benefits, but we question the short-term viability. Oil is the best we've got for now.

Plus, a lot of us are of the opinion that most eco-liberals don't really care about the environment - their problem is with capitalism. So when the 'Big Solar' companies start posting too much profit in the year 2100, and their corporate HQ buildings get just a few stories too high, and they start employing just a few too many people, the leftists will start complaining how evil it is that we're exploiting poor old Mr. Sun. So when we see liberal pet-projects fail, we all reserve the right to have a good laugh at their expense. :D

Nuke plants would fill the bill nicely but do you think one will be built in the next 4 or 8 years?

AmPat
05-16-2009, 07:19 PM
Except for any chemical residues !

Acids?:confused:

Nubs
05-16-2009, 07:59 PM
Fossil fuels are currently the most cost effective/efficient form of energy. Until it is not, I will use nothing else.

RobJohnson
05-16-2009, 11:47 PM
You do have a say! between windmills ,solar panels, biofuels take your pick the choice is yours. I heat with wood and run all my trucks on waste motor oil. Thats right waste engine oil is what iI burn in my trucks! I grow all of my own food even milk and cheese. The free market is full of oppertunities. Use them hypocrite!

A friend from IL built some type of contraption that converts used cooking oil into fuel....last summer, a trip to FL cost him nine bucks.....

I would love to live in a house that would never have a utility bill, but of course, reality sets in. :)

Rockntractor
05-16-2009, 11:54 PM
A friend from IL built some type of contraption that converts used cooking oil into fuel....last summer, a trip to FL cost him nine bucks.....

I would love to live in a house that would never have a utility bill, but of course, reality sets in. :)
I was going to do that but when diesel was over 4.00 per gallon you couldn't find waste veggy oil in my area all the other rednecks were using it all. That is why I found a way to burn motor oil.

Sonnabend
05-17-2009, 05:58 AM
I sold my car over the summer because of oil prices and I've grown to enjoy walking and using my bicycle.

Really? So you never fly or travel more than 100 km from home?


I understand for people not in an urban environment or who have to do heavy moving that's really not feasible, but a majority of people in America live in the cities are you really dont need a car.

...you're KIDDING, right?

Constitutionally Speaking
05-17-2009, 07:51 AM
Consume, consume, consume and dont think of the consequences. Just gobble down as much oil as you possibly can, while you can, and wait for that day where a gallon of gas costs $8.00. The condemnation of all things non-oil here is ridiculous, do you not want an alternative to something we import from Saudi fucking Arabia?


What we condemn is the CONDEMNATION of all things carbon from the left.

There is absolutely ZERO reason to avoid the responsible use of fossil fuels - NONE.


We have enough oil in the Green River formation ALL BY ITSELF to fuel the entire current U.S. demand for more than 100 years, yet you idiots on the left refuse to let us pursue it in any meaningful way.

Betcha didn't know that tiny fact did you? The liberals are LYING to you.


The Earth is COOLER now than it was in 1935 - Betcha did't know that one either. The liberals are LYING to you.


CO2 does NOT cause global warming. Global warming CAUSES increased levels of CO2 - betcha didn't here that from Al Gore, did you??? The Liberals are LYING to you.

The "hockey stick" graph that is the entire basis for the Global warming scam used manipulated data and an erroneous calculation method that results EVERY TIME in a hockey stick shaped graph. Betcha didn't know that either now, did you? The liberals are LYING to you.

Polar Bear populations are that the highest level in recorded history - betcha didn't know that, did you? The liberals are LYING to you.

Constitutionally Speaking
05-17-2009, 07:59 AM
Drilling will not fix the long-term problem. Nuclear plants, increased funding for renewable energy research and revised consumption habits will.

The US oil reserves will last us something like 3 months, and it'll cost like $1,000 to fill up your car in that time.


Where did you pull this erroneous lie from. Surely you are not referring to the strategic oil reserve are you??? We pull NOTHING from that now!

No one here is condemning the developement of alternative fuels what we mock and get infuriated by is the absolute disregard of the truth and of reality.

We are being forced into technologies that are NOT ready for widespread use and this migration is costing us jobs, and comfort and indeed lives.

The recent recession was sparked by the oil prices we saw last year. The millions of families that are now suffering the results of that recession can thank the Democrats for refusing to let us go after our own oil.

The dramatic run up in prices WOULD have (notice I did NOT say COULD have) - WOULD have never occured had you lefties allowed us to drill in ANWR, offshore and develope the oil shales we have.

Yes we SHOULD develop those alternative technologies, but until then, we need to use what is actually available now.

RobJohnson
05-17-2009, 10:06 AM
Fewer people than you think live close enough to mass transit to make it feasible, and besides, who are you to decide what the majority of Americans really need? That's the beauty of a free market, we make our own choices.


Correct.

In the past 20 years of working for a living, very few work locations have been serviced by public transportation. This includes only three of many locations where I have lived.

Odysseus
05-17-2009, 10:12 AM
Correct.

In the past 20 years of working for a living, very few work locations have been serviced by public transportation. This includes only three of many locations where I have lived.

Exactly. Even when I was assigned to a post in NYC, I couldn't get there by mass transit, unless I was willing to take two or three hours each way.

BadCat
05-17-2009, 10:28 AM
Yeah, I remember this under Carter.
All of the engineering students at the university were specializing in solar, geothermal and wind energy.

Most of them had lousy lives working at Kinkos.

RobJohnson
05-17-2009, 11:06 AM
Here where the sun is a plenty, I have seen some practical uses for solar power.

Business signs in remote locations are easily illuminated with solar powered lamps, eliminating the need for those union electritions to pull wire and instal an outlet!

BadCat
05-17-2009, 11:38 AM
Here where the sun is a plenty, I have seen some practical uses for solar power.

Business signs in remote locations are easily illuminated with solar powered lamps, eliminating the need for those union electritions to pull wire and instal an outlet!

I have some of these around the swimming pool (blue ones)...

http://www.mileskimball.com/MilesKimball/images/p152881b.jpg

They charge all day long in the Arizona sun, and at night, they last about 3 hours. Real efficient.

lacarnut
05-17-2009, 12:50 PM
Where did you pull this erroneous lie from. Surely you are not referring to the strategic oil reserve are you??? We pull NOTHING from that now!

No one here is condemning the developement of alternative fuels what we mock and get infuriated by is the absolute disregard of the truth and of reality.

We are being forced into technologies that are NOT ready for widespread use and this migration is costing us jobs, and comfort and indeed lives.

The recent recession was sparked by the oil prices we saw last year. The millions of families that are now suffering the results of that recession can thank the Democrats for refusing to let us go after our own oil.

The dramatic run up in prices WOULD have (notice I did NOT say COULD have) - WOULD have never occured had you lefties allowed us to drill in ANWR, offshore and develope the oil shales we have.

Yes we SHOULD develop those alternative technologies, but until then, we need to use what is actually available now.

The plan by the Democ. and Env. weeines is to limit any new oil production, jack up the price of crude by imposing high taxes equal to the rate in the EU, give those revenues to the alternative energy crowd so that they can compete. Then the Obummer and his Admin can tout that alternative is not only cost effective but is better for the environment. The consumer will be hit with $5 per gal gasoline prices. Picking winners and losers is not how democracy should work. It is a perfect plan by the Robin Hood crowd in DC.

Exxon has already cut its budget for drilling in the US by 30%. Why would any industry want to spend huge sums of money to make a small percentage of profit (less than 10%) only to have the nuts on the left claim that they are evil and we are going to take their profits away. The more that politicians try to rape the large oil companies, the less they will spend on exploration. In turn, the less revenues that the treasury will collect. Higher taxes means less revenues; a concept liberals are too stupid to understand. CA & NY are perfect examples.

Rockntractor
05-17-2009, 01:29 PM
The American people need to know that high energy prices that forced on us by liberals are the reason for this recession. We need to make sure liberals and environmentalists own this recession and what may be a total collapse of our economy in the near future. Liberals like japanaroid may seam harmless but in large numbers they could easely destroy our nation.

Hawkgirl
05-17-2009, 05:35 PM
Nearly a million dollars and they're waiting for more funding....?? Talk about a money pit!

ironhorsedriver
05-17-2009, 07:11 PM
A friend from IL built some type of contraption that converts used cooking oil into fuel....last summer, a trip to FL cost him nine bucks.....

I would love to live in a house that would never have a utility bill, but of course, reality sets in. :)
I thought about doing this for my farm equipment, truck and tractor. Was all juiced up to buy the equipment. Then I found out the downside. The bio-deisel gels up below certain temps. Not real good for me. I don't want to constantly run block heaters and heat the barn to keep the fuel tank warm.

RobJohnson
05-17-2009, 07:13 PM
Exactly. Even when I was assigned to a post in NYC, I couldn't get there by mass transit, unless I was willing to take two or three hours each way.

A newspaper reporter in Vegas tried this so he could write a story.

It was over a mile walk from his house to the nearest pick up point. It was over 110 that day....a trip to UNLV & then to a doctor's office took him five hours from the time he left home, until the time he got back.

Odysseus
05-17-2009, 08:57 PM
The American people need to know that high energy prices that forced on us by liberals are the reason for this recession. We need to make sure liberals and environmentalists own this recession and what may be a total collapse of our economy in the near future. Liberals like japanaroid may seam harmless but in large numbers they could easely destroy our nation.
That's part of it, to be sure, but the mortgage crisis was and is real, and it was also brought on by a government that is trying to socially engineer America through manipulation of markets.

A newspaper reporter in Vegas tried this so he could write a story.

It was over a mile walk from his house to the nearest pick up point. It was over 110 that day....a trip to UNLV & then to a doctor's office took him five hours from the time he left home, until the time he got back.
It's a good thing that he didn't need a doctor in a hurry after walking a mile in 110 degree heat. Of course, once he'd gotten there, Obama will make sure that he has to wait for his health care ration, too.

Japandroid
05-18-2009, 01:01 AM
The more that politicians try to rape the large oil companies
Those poor, poor oil companies. They are in the most incredibly easy market ever (everything needs oil and they are the only place to get it) and they still cant buy a break. Screw the American people who pay exorbitant fees and have to deal with disgusting smog in their cities, the oil companies are the real victims.


In turn, the less revenues that the treasury will collect. Higher taxes means less revenues; a concept liberals are too stupid to understand. CA & NY are perfect examples.
The Laffer Curve, oh boy. There is no real debate over the validity of supply-side economics, it's pretty much accepted as fact. But not every tax cut increases revenues; if you go from a 10% tax rate to a 5% tax rate the government will inevitably lose money. What you need to find in working with the Laffer Curve is the tip of the curve where governments can pull in the best revenues, if tax hikes can still increase government revenue then you haven't reached the point where tax cuts can do the same thing. It's a CURVE.

We aren't at the tip of the Laffer Curve in America yet, in fact nobody other than a few communist countries has been on the other side.

Sonnabend
05-18-2009, 07:54 AM
Screw the American people who pay exorbitant fees and have to deal with disgusting smog in their cities, the oil companies are the real victims.

So tell us

How many flights have you taken in the last five years?

3rd-try
05-18-2009, 08:05 AM
Japandroid, Just tell us with a straight face that the Dem's blocking of reaching our own vast reserves is a good thing. And, please elaborate. Thank You.

Sonnabend
05-18-2009, 08:07 AM
Solar energy? Aint going to work.

Wind power? When the wind dont blow, the power dont flow

Geothermic? To power an entire city grid? Get REAL.

So tell me, your Intellectual Giantness, with WHAT will you replace the MILLIONS of cars on the road?

BTW, kindly tell us just WHAT will replace the cars and trucks with sirens...you know, fire engines, ambulances...the ones that save lives?

Going to replace those with bicycles too?

IMBECILE.

noonwitch
05-18-2009, 08:25 AM
I drive by that thing whenever I go to Nordies. Troy is a very nice part of town-it's where the Somerset Collection, the fanciest mall in the area, is located. Lots of big houses that people paid way too much money for 10 years ago.

Odysseus
05-18-2009, 12:15 PM
Those poor, poor oil companies. They are in the most incredibly easy market ever (everything needs oil and they are the only place to get it) and they still cant buy a break. Screw the American people who pay exorbitant fees and have to deal with disgusting smog in their cities, the oil companies are the real victims.
They're also the most incredibly easy target, especially if you don't do any research but just spew propaganda (which ought to be considered a pollutant on its own). Thirty years ago, you might have made the claim that cities were under a perpetual smog haze, but your data is way out of date. Smog rates are down in almost every major American city since they started recording data.

Here are the carbon monoxide totals in millions of tons from fuel combustion (which includes automobiles, electric utilities and industrial fuels) from 1950 through 1998:


1950: 102.609
1960: 109.745
1970: 128.761
1980: 116.702
1989: 106.439
1990: 98.523
1991: 100.872
1992: 97.630
1993: 98.160
1994: 102.643
1995: 93.353
1996: 95.479
1997: 94.410
1998: 89.454
The total output has declined since 1950, despite the US population doubling. You can thank the oil companies for cleaner burning fuels, the auto companies for catalytic converters and more efficient engines and pretty much the rest of American industry for applying their ingenuity to the problem.


The Laffer Curve, oh boy. There is no real debate over the validity of supply-side economics, it's pretty much accepted as fact. But not every tax cut increases revenues; if you go from a 10% tax rate to a 5% tax rate the government will inevitably lose money. What you need to find in working with the Laffer Curve is the tip of the curve where governments can pull in the best revenues, if tax hikes can still increase government revenue then you haven't reached the point where tax cuts can do the same thing. It's a CURVE.
We aren't at the tip of the Laffer Curve in America yet, in fact nobody other than a few communist countries has been on the other side.
That is such nonsense. We were on the other side of the Laffer curve for most of the seventies, and the economic stagnation that we experienced was a direct result of marginal tax rates that punished productivity. Also, the Soviet bloc never had an income tax, or any other kind, since the governments owned everything outright and all revenues went to the state. You have no idea of what you're talking about.

Solar energy? Aint going to work.
Wind power? When the wind dont blow, the power dont flow
Geothermic? To power an entire city grid? Get REAL.
So tell me, your Intellectual Giantness, with WHAT will you replace the MILLIONS of cars on the road?
BTW, kindly tell us just WHAT will replace the cars and trucks with sirens...you know, fire engines, ambulances...the ones that save lives?
Going to replace those with bicycles too?
IMBECILE.
He's going to replace them all with fairy dust. Just sprinkle a bit on the kids and the dog, find your happy thought and the morning commute takes no energy at all, at least until the government starts regulating happy thoughts.

I drive by that thing whenever I go to Nordies. Troy is a very nice part of town-it's where the Somerset Collection, the fanciest mall in the area, is located. Lots of big houses that people paid way too much money for 10 years ago.
I doubt that anyone who paid too much 10 years ago got stuck with as poor a return on investment as they did for this money pit.

lacarnut
05-18-2009, 12:48 PM
Solar energy? Aint going to work.

Wind power? When the wind dont blow, the power dont flow

Geothermic? To power an entire city grid? Get REAL.

So tell me, your Intellectual Giantness, with WHAT will you replace the MILLIONS of cars on the road?

BTW, kindly tell us just WHAT will replace the cars and trucks with sirens...you know, fire engines, ambulances...the ones that save lives?

Going to replace those with bicycles too?

IMBECILE.

Japanroid does not answer questions. Like a good liberal, he just throw out misinformation.

I asked him 3 or 4 times where the Nuke Plant was breaking ground in 2009. The stupid shit does not know.

lacarnut
05-18-2009, 01:19 PM
Those poor, poor oil companies. They are in the most incredibly easy market ever (everything needs oil and they are the only place to get it) and they still cant buy a break. Screw the American people who pay exorbitant fees and have to deal with disgusting smog in their cities, the oil companies are the real victims.


.

The oil companies make on average 10 cents per gallon. The Federal government collects 18.4 cents a gallon (almost twice as much as the oil companies make) and a state like NY tacks on another 58 cents for a total of 68 cents for federal, state and local sales tax. The average total tax on a gal of gasoline is 62 cents. Looks like to me the government is the one doing the gouging and screwing over the consumer with its exorbitants taxes.

Over the last 25 years, the oil companies have paid the government 2.2 trillion dollars in taxes. That is 3 times the amount the oil companies made. It is the government that is f... ing us over. The Magic Negro is going to raise the Fed tax to pay for stupid shit like wind and solar.

One of the few industries that have thrived during this recession is the oil industry. 100's of products are made from crude. Do you understand? They are great paying jobs also. The dumb ass Democrats want to shut them down. What a bunch of idiots. We are losing hundreds of thousands of jobs and the Obummer wants to tax the shit out of everything. Employers will not hire/expand in this type of environment.

Jfor
05-18-2009, 02:59 PM
The oil companies make on average 10 cents per gallon. The Federal government collects 18.4 cents a gallon (almost twice as much as the oil companies make) and a state like NY tacks on another 58 cents for a total of 68 cents for federal, state and local sales tax. The average total tax on a gal of gasoline is 62 cents. Looks like to me the government is the one doing the gouging and screwing over the consumer with its exorbitants taxes.

Over the last 25 years, the oil companies have paid the government 2.2 trillion dollars in taxes. That is 3 times the amount the oil companies made. It is the government that is f... ing us over. The Magic Negro is going to raise the Fed tax to pay for stupid shit like wind and solar.

One of the few industries that have thrived during this recession is the oil industry. 100's of products are made from crude. Do you understand? They are great paying jobs also. The dumb ass Democrats want to shut them down. What a bunch of idiots. We are losing hundreds of thousands of jobs and the Obummer wants to tax the shit out of everything. Employers will not hire/expand in this type of environment.

Don't let something as pesky as facts get in the way of liberal crap LOL

Constitutionally Speaking
05-18-2009, 07:39 PM
Those poor, poor oil companies. They are in the most incredibly easy market ever (everything needs oil and they are the only place to get it) and they still cant buy a break. Screw the American people who pay exorbitant fees and have to deal with disgusting smog in their cities, the oil companies are the real victims.


The Laffer Curve, oh boy. There is no real debate over the validity of supply-side economics, it's pretty much accepted as fact. But not every tax cut increases revenues; if you go from a 10% tax rate to a 5% tax rate the government will inevitably lose money. What you need to find in working with the Laffer Curve is the tip of the curve where governments can pull in the best revenues, if tax hikes can still increase government revenue then you haven't reached the point where tax cuts can do the same thing. It's a CURVE.

We aren't at the tip of the Laffer Curve in America yet, in fact nobody other than a few communist countries has been on the other side.


On the bolded points you are 100% correct. There IS an optimum point for revenue collection and, assuming the maximization of government revenues is the goal - taxes SHOULD be set at that rate. (I personally don't believe that revenue maximization should be the goal, but that is another discussion). The "go from a 10% tax rate to a 5% tax rate the government will inevitably lose money" part is not necessarily correct.

That part depends which side of the optimum point the tax rate for that particular tax - if you are on the right side of the curve, higher taxes = lower govt. revenues. On the Left side of the curve, higher tax rates = higher revenues.

The thing of it is, that optimum rate is different for every tax out there and it is always shifting. I was working with some other very talented economists a year or so ago and we had hoped there might be some international recognition for us if we could pin this point down - but it is looking increasingly unlikely that this will ever be possible. It is just too fluid.

Constitutionally Speaking
05-18-2009, 08:01 PM
Over the last 25 years, the oil companies have paid the government 2.2 trillion dollars in taxes. That is 3 times the amount the oil companies made. It is the government that is f... ing us over. The Magic Negro is going to raise the Fed tax to pay for stupid shit like wind and solar.




The government is actually STEALING (via taxes) money from the oil industry - using part of it to fund a smear campaign against them and GIVINGthe rest of it to their competition for the STATED PURPOSE of driving them out of business.


That is akin to the government stealing your paycheck, using part of it to frame you for a crime you did not commit and then giving it to the boss's son when he replaces you in your job.