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View Full Version : Will there be a new Gas Tax?



patriot45
05-20-2009, 10:58 AM
I'm curious, with the 0 telling automakers what kind of cars to make, tiny little pieces of crap, how the heck would he be able to make people buy them?
If gas stays relatively cheap, no one will turn in thier pick-up or Hummer, but if they decide to punch up a fuel tax by a couple of dollars a gallon, the gov would be able to force us to do thier bidding.
This can't turn out well.

ralph wiggum
05-20-2009, 11:34 AM
Of course this will happen. 0bama will ostensibly propose an extra tax because it is needed and the right thing to do. :rolleyes:

lacarnut
05-20-2009, 12:59 PM
Obama will follow the EU's lead and tax it so that gasoline will be in the 4 to 5 dollar range so that he can take that money to fund alternative energy. Consumers will get the shaft; the government and the oil companies will make out like bandits.

Odysseus
05-20-2009, 04:54 PM
Obama will follow the EU's lead and tax it so that gasoline will be in the 4 to 5 dollar range so that he can take that money to fund alternative energy. Consumers will get the shaft; the government and the oil companies will make out like bandits.

The oil companies won't see a penny of it. It's a tax. The government will tax us, blame the oil companies and then demonize the executives when they get their bonuses, unless a hefty chunk of those bonuses goes to the DNC in the form of donations.

lacarnut
05-20-2009, 05:45 PM
The oil companies won't see a penny of it. It's a tax. The government will tax us, blame the oil companies and then demonize the executives when they get their bonuses, unless a hefty chunk of those bonuses goes to the DNC in the form of donations.

I should have excluded the bandit part concerning the oil companies. However, in most cases, companies usually will tack on a small or additonal amount over and above the tax.

I do think that the public is smart enough to know that the government is giving them a screw job when prices go way up. The prop. in CA that failed regarding an increase in gas taxes is an example. The legislation would have foribid the oil companies from raising prices. Voters did not fall for that stupidity.

patriot45
05-20-2009, 08:13 PM
The government through taxes is changing our behavior. They want us to buy useless cars and we don't want to, then they will just tax gas. They will tax soft drinks, they're not done with cig taxes yet and are wanting to slam beer and booze. The 0 and company are ambitious and are working fast.

Odysseus
05-20-2009, 08:38 PM
I should have excluded the bandit part concerning the oil companies. However, in most cases, companies usually will tack on a small or additonal amount over and above the tax.

I do think that the public is smart enough to know that the government is giving them a screw job when prices go way up. The prop. in CA that failed regarding an increase in gas taxes is an example. The legislation would have foribid the oil companies from raising prices. Voters did not fall for that stupidity.

People would have to be informed in order to know when they are getting screwed. During the last go-round of high gas prices, Democrats managed to pin everything on Bush and oil companies and the voices of reason were drowned out in the media chorus of manufactured rage. This time around, it will become an excuse to attack the oil companies again and possibly take a piece of their action.

lacarnut
05-20-2009, 09:23 PM
People would have to be informed in order to know when they are getting screwed. During the last go-round of high gas prices, Democrats managed to pin everything on Bush and oil companies and the voices of reason were drowned out in the media chorus of manufactured rage. This time around, it will become an excuse to attack the oil companies again and possibly take a piece of their action.

I do believe a lot of people wised up to the fact that the high prices were driven by speculators and hedge funds managers. Unlike the banks and the auto companies, the big oil companies are flush with cash. So any punitive legislation against them will be aggressively opposed in Congress and in the courts. Nationalization of the oil companies will never take place in my opinion. If it does, a company like Exxon may pick up and leave like they did in Venezuela. Most of their profits come from overseas operations anyway. Chavez is finding out that did not work out to well for them. l

The Obummer and the Democraps will probably attempt excise tax increases of 5 to 10 cents per gallon which would be a huge increase over the 18.4% collected now. If they tried a $1 increase which they are dying to do, there would be a big stink.

patriot45
05-20-2009, 09:40 PM
I do believe a lot of people wised up to the fact that the high prices were driven by speculators and hedge funds managers. Unlike the banks and the auto companies, the big oil companies are flush with cash. So any punitive legislation against them will be aggressively opposed in Congress and in the courts. Nationalization of the oil companies will never take place in my opinion. If it does, a company like Exxon may pick up and leave like they did in Venezuela. Most of their profits come from overseas operations anyway. Chavez is finding out that did not work out to well for them. l

The Obummer and the Democraps will probably attempt excise tax increases of 5 to 10 cents per gallon which would be a huge increase over the 18.4% collected now. If they tried a $1 increase which they are dying to do, there would be a big stink.

I dont think the big stink will come from the dims, the libs have wanted to jack the price of gas to 4 - 6 bucks a gallon for a while now. Our side will bitch but its not like that would stop them. We are bitching about all the money they are spending now and it isn't mattering, is it!?!

lacarnut
05-20-2009, 10:03 PM
I dont think the big stink will come from the dims, the libs have wanted to jack the price of gas to 4 - 6 bucks a gallon for a while now. Our side will bitch but its not like that would stop them. We are bitching about all the money they are spending now and it isn't mattering, is it!?!

When the government cranks up the printing press, the effects are not felt for months or years. So, it's not hitting them in the pocketbook yet. You jack up the price of gas to 4-6 bucks a gallon with a dollar or two excise tax and the outcry will be instantaneous. I may be wrong but I don't think the Democraps have the balls to drastically raise taxes prior to the mid term elections.

AlmostThere
05-20-2009, 10:05 PM
People would have to be informed in order to know when they are getting screwed. During the last go-round of high gas prices, Democrats managed to pin everything on Bush and oil companies and the voices of reason were drowned out in the media chorus of manufactured rage. This time around, it will become an excuse to attack the oil companies again and possibly take a piece of their action.

Big oil has a profit margin under 10%. They heat our homes, provide transportation and power our world . But their 10% profit makes them evil. Not too long ago, Starbucks had a FAR higher profit margin. Their astronomical profit margins on over-priced coffee drinks made them entrepreneurs of the year.

When a mind is totally devoid of common sense, no amount of informing can save it from its fate.

lacarnut
05-21-2009, 01:02 AM
The voters in the most liberal state in the country, CA, voted down all the tax Props. by a 2 to 1 margin. I think they sent Arnuld and the Democ. legislators a message. No more taxes.

AHeneen
05-21-2009, 01:58 AM
The government through taxes is changing our behavior...They will tax soft drinks, they're not done with cig taxes yet and are wanting to slam beer and booze.

Yep. Florida will be raising the cigarette tax by $1...


TALLAHASSEE - Gov. Charlie Crist says he will allow an increase in the state cigarette tax to become law.

The legislation would increase the cigarette tax from 34 cent to $1.34, and nearly triple the existing 25 percent tax on the wholesale price of other tobacco products, including chewing and pipe tobacco. It is expected to raise about $800 million a year.

Only cigars are excluded—a bow to Florida's huge cigar industry.

Crist, who signed an anti-tax increase pledge after he announced he is running for the U.S. Senate, says he says the cigarette tax as more of a health issue than a tax issue.

Link (http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/Cigarette_tax_crist_052009)

Odysseus
05-21-2009, 11:10 AM
I do believe a lot of people wised up to the fact that the high prices were driven by speculators and hedge funds managers. Unlike the banks and the auto companies, the big oil companies are flush with cash. So any punitive legislation against them will be aggressively opposed in Congress and in the courts. Nationalization of the oil companies will never take place in my opinion. If it does, a company like Exxon may pick up and leave like they did in Venezuela. Most of their profits come from overseas operations anyway. Chavez is finding out that did not work out to well for them.
Except that they weren't. The price of gasoline is driven by the replacement cost of your stock. If a gas station owner fills his reservoir with gas at $1.00 per gallon, and oil markets rise due to instability in the Middle East, annual changes in the gas formula (the summer mix costs more) and the reduction in refinery capacity from the damage done by Katrina, then the future price of oil will rise, which means that the gas that the station owner bought will cost $2.00 per gallon to replace. If he's already sold some, he has to calculate how much he has left and how much he has to sell it for in order to fill the reservoir again. So, if he's sold half his stock for $1.00 and the price is now $2.00, he has to make up the difference on less stock. That means that the price jumps, not to $2.00 per gallon, but to $3.00 per gallon, and that's assuming that the price doesn't hike again while he's selling. That, BTW, is a classic market pricing mechanism that no bureaucracy can replicate, especially since each gas station has unique factors which contribute to the pricing (location, density of competitors, other services provided, overhead, etc.).

Big oil has a profit margin under 10%. They heat our homes, provide transportation and power our world . But their 10% profit makes them evil. Not too long ago, Starbucks had a FAR higher profit margin. Their astronomical profit margins on over-priced coffee drinks made them entrepreneurs of the year.
When a mind is totally devoid of common sense, no amount of informing can save it from its fate.
Come to think of it, how much do people pay for Starbuck's coffee by the gallon?

The voters in the most liberal state in the country, CA, voted down all the tax Props. by a 2 to 1 margin. I think they sent Arnuld and the Democ. legislators a message. No more taxes.
Yeah, but they keep voting in the same brain-dead legislature. That's the real problem, a lack of competition within the districts. A serious Republican challenge that turned the legislature elections into a referendum on California's tax policies could probably win it, but it would take money and a clear message that people actually believed.

Yep. Florida will be raising the cigarette tax by $1...
Crist seems to be competing with Arnold for worst RINO governor in the nation.

Constitutionally Speaking
05-21-2009, 03:47 PM
Will there be a new Gas Tax?


Does a bear shit in the woods???

BadCat
05-21-2009, 04:13 PM
Does a Dimocrat have opposable thumbs?

Wait...never mind.

lacarnut
05-21-2009, 04:18 PM
Except that they weren't. The price of gasoline is driven by the replacement cost of your stock. If a gas station owner fills his reservoir with gas at $1.00 per gallon, and oil markets rise due to instability in the Middle East, annual changes in the gas formula (the summer mix costs more) and the reduction in refinery capacity from the damage done by Katrina, then the future price of oil will rise, which means that the gas that the station owner bought will cost $2.00 per gallon to replace. If he's already sold some, he has to calculate how much he has left and how much he has to sell it for in order to fill the reservoir again. So, if he's sold half his stock for $1.00 and the price is now $2.00, he has to make up the difference on less stock. That means that the price jumps, not to $2.00 per gallon, but to $3.00 per gallon, and that's assuming that the price doesn't hike again while he's selling. That, BTW, is a classic market pricing mechanism that no bureaucracy can replicate, especially since each gas station has unique factors which contribute to the pricing (location, density of competitors, other services provided, overhead, etc.).



Are you saying that the speculators and hedge funds in part did not drive the price up crude up to a $140 per barrel? That is what caused the price of gasoline to shoot to over 4 bucks a gallon. Valero is the largest refiner in the US and they were barely making a profit because of the high cost of crude they had to pay. At that time, they were trying to sell 2 of their refinery's. There are numerous parts to the oil market. Option traders control the price of crude; not the oil companies.

Odysseus
05-21-2009, 05:45 PM
Are you saying that the speculators and hedge funds in part did not drive the price up crude up to a $140 per barrel? That is what caused the price of gasoline to shoot to over 4 bucks a gallon. Valero is the largest refiner in the US and they were barely making a profit because of the high cost of crude they had to pay. At that time, they were trying to sell 2 of their refinery's. There are numerous parts to the oil market. Option traders control the price of crude; not the oil companies.

Option traders don't control the price of crude, they bet on what they think that the price will be. It's like saying that the oddsmakers control the Kentucky Derby. Ultimately, what the horses and jockeys do on the track is the final arbiter of what the payout will be, just as the physical availability of the oil supply determines its price. The option prices are an effect of supply and demand, not a cause. The price of crude went up because of the instability of oil supplies. Think in terms of global events at the time. Iraq was going badly (although nowhere nearly as badly as the media would have us think), Hugo Chavez was nationalizing oil production and congress voted against drilling in ANWR. Those events pointed to future scarcity of supply. At the same time, the arrival of summer meant more oil usage, both in terms of gasoline and power generation (those AC units have to get electricity from somewhere). The constriction of refinery capacity meant that even though current supplies were coming in, it took longer to get them to market, another contraction of supply at the height of demand. The commodity markets reflected that reality, they didn't create it.

lacarnut
05-21-2009, 07:23 PM
Option traders don't control the price of crude, they bet on what they think that the price will be. It's like saying that the oddsmakers control the Kentucky Derby. Ultimately, what the horses and jockeys do on the track is the final arbiter of what the payout will be, just as the physical availability of the oil supply determines its price. The option prices are an effect of supply and demand, not a cause. The price of crude went up because of the instability of oil supplies. Think in terms of global events at the time. Iraq was going badly (although nowhere nearly as badly as the media would have us think), Hugo Chavez was nationalizing oil production and congress voted against drilling in ANWR. Those events pointed to future scarcity of supply. At the same time, the arrival of summer meant more oil usage, both in terms of gasoline and power generation (those AC units have to get electricity from somewhere). The constriction of refinery capacity meant that even though current supplies were coming in, it took longer to get them to market, another contraction of supply at the height of demand. The commodity markets reflected that reality, they didn't create it.

Oil is traded on the commodities futures market at the N.Y. Mercantile Exchange along with cotton, coffee, etc. Brokers buy and sell contracts that will be delivered at some time in the future. A large majority of the contracts are held by speculators. They are not held by the oil companies, airlines or Saudis. These speculators do not take possession of the oil; they are just pushing paper. Included in these speculators are hedge funds, mutual funds, sovereign wealth funds, pension funds, etc that put huge amounts of money into index funds betting that the price would go up. Guess what it did all the way up to $140. These entities can make money on the way up and on the way down. Congress lambasted the oil company for their obscene profits but in reality your pension fund might have been the culprit and beneficiary of those high prices.

A great deal of natural gas passes thru Louisiana and is sold and re-sold several times where title but not possession takes place. It is a paper transaction and every entity adds on their profit.

AHeneen
05-21-2009, 11:41 PM
Crist seems to be competing with Arnold for worst RINO governor in the nation.

He won't be governor too much longer...he's running for Senate next year. Of course the Republican party is going to throw everything behind him and prevent others from challenging him. A couple days later when our AG announced his plan to run for governor, they did the same. The Agriculture commissioner who planned on doing the same thing was interview by the local news and infuriated that the RPoF would throw their weight behind a candidate before going through the primaries. Seems like the Republican Party is learning some lessons from the Democrats. :mad:

RobJohnson
05-22-2009, 09:12 AM
President Obama promised no tax increases for those that made under 200K a year, so there will be no new gas taxes!