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Rebel Yell
05-27-2009, 09:07 AM
A San Diego pastor and his wife claim they were interrogated by a county official and warned they will face escalating fines if they continue to hold Bible studies in their home.

The couple, whose names are being withheld until a demand letter can be filed on their behalf, told their attorney a county government employee knocked on their door on Good Friday, asking a litany of questions about their Tuesday night Bible studies, which are attended by approximately 15 people.

"Do you have a regular weekly meeting in your home? Do you sing? Do you say 'amen'?" the official reportedly asked. "Do you say, 'Praise the Lord'?"

The pastor's wife answered yes.

She says she was then told, however, that she must stop holding "religious assemblies" until she and her husband obtain a Major Use Permit from the county, a permit that often involves traffic and environmental studies, compliance with parking and sidewalk regulations and costs that top tens of thousands of dollars.

And if they fail to pay for the MUP, the county official reportedly warned, the couple will be charged escalating fines beginning at $100, then $200, $500, $1000, "and then it will get ugly."

I know this is World Net Daily, but I also saw it on Fox this morning.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=98895


Raise your hand if you've seen this type of government interference predicted somewhere before. This needs to be nipped in the bud before it can become the norm.

Gingersnap
05-27-2009, 09:41 AM
These bureaucrats are just teaching people to lie.

What's next? Checking to see if you're using the right version of the bible? :rolleyes:

Space Gravy
05-27-2009, 10:11 AM
After reading this it seems less like it's about bible study and more about permit revenue.

noonwitch
05-27-2009, 11:48 AM
After reading this it seems less like it's about bible study and more about permit revenue.


They are being singled out, though, even if it is about permit revenue. Do people who throw weekly cocktail parties at their home get the same treatment?


I see this as a first amendment issue, if other groups are not being treated the same way. If they are, it's an abusive government that is encroaching upon the freedom to assemble.

Rockntractor
05-27-2009, 12:01 PM
They are being singled out, though, even if it is about permit revenue. Do people who throw weekly cocktail parties at their home get the same treatment?


I see this as a first amendment issue, if other groups are not being treated the same way. If they are, it's an abusive government that is encroaching upon the freedom to assemble.
You are always fair and balanced you need to get a job with fox news.

megimoo
05-27-2009, 12:09 PM
I know this is World Net Daily, but I also saw it on Fox this morning.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=98895


Raise your hand if you've seen this type of government interference predicted somewhere before. This needs to be nipped in the bud before it can become the norm.Tell him to call these folks .
http://www.alliancedefensefund.org/main/default.aspx

NJCardFan
05-27-2009, 12:13 PM
Well, all they should have said is that they were holding an orgie and all would have been well.

Seriously, this was predicted long, long ago. Read Revelations.

Space Gravy
05-27-2009, 12:24 PM
They are being singled out, though, even if it is about permit revenue. Do people who throw weekly cocktail parties at their home get the same treatment?


I see this as a first amendment issue, if other groups are not being treated the same way. If they are, it's an abusive government that is encroaching upon the freedom to assemble.

It does seem like they have an enforceable law on the books for this.

I'm just saying I've also seen plenty of stories where people that run kennels, have pet goats, have weekly yard sales etc... get their balls busted over permits. I don't think this is a sign of the apocalypse.

The first amendment doesn't give anyone carte blanche to meet where and whenever you want. We can't decide to have a CU meet up in the oval office, get the boot by the secret service and claim our rights to free assembly are being violated.

Gingersnap
05-27-2009, 12:32 PM
Well, all they should have said is that they were holding an orgie and all would have been well.

Seriously, this was predicted long, long ago. Read Revelations.

Actually, they shut down a "swingers'" house out here. Since they couldn't make them get permits and licensing, they just hauled them into court for improper use of parking spots or something.

FlaGator
05-27-2009, 01:12 PM
It does seem like they have an enforceable law on the books for this.

I'm just saying I've also seen plenty of stories where people that run kennels, have pet goats, have weekly yard sales etc... get their balls busted over permits. I don't think this is a sign of the apocalypse.

The first amendment doesn't give anyone carte blanche to meet where and whenever you want. We can't decide to have a CU meet up in the oval office, get the boot by the secret service and claim our rights to free assembly are being violated.

So if you and the boys get together for a weekly card game do you feel you need to obtain a permit? How about an every Friday night get together of friends to watch a DVD in your living room? Should that require a permit?

wilbur
05-27-2009, 01:18 PM
I have to agree with Space, that its extremely easy to run afoul of local regulations, and happens commonly. All it takes is one curmudgeon in a home owners association to get agitated..

Or ornery old neighbors may have gotten fed up with the parking or the noise on their street during these events and reported it or something.

If it had been a non-Christian related event, the WND (or Fox) wouldn't have even looked at the story, much less reported it... situations like this aren't exactly uncommon, even when the Bible isnt involved ;)

noonwitch
05-27-2009, 01:19 PM
So if you and the boys get together for a weekly card game do you feel you need to obtain a permit? How about an every Friday night get together of friends to watch a DVD in your living room? Should that require a permit?


The fact that they were asked about singing, saying "Praise the Lord" and "Amen" indicate to me that this is about picking on christians, even if the ultimate purpose is to raise revenue from permits.

FOX should canvass the neighborhood and see if anyone else is being harrassed, along with the Bible study participants.

wilbur
05-27-2009, 01:25 PM
The fact that they were asked about singing, saying "Praise the Lord" and "Amen" indicate to me that this is about picking on christians, even if the ultimate purpose is to raise revenue from permits.

FOX should canvass the neighborhood and see if anyone else is being harrassed, along with the Bible study participants.

I have to wonder if there were noise complaints, and the official wasnt just trying to assess if they were the true source of the noise?

The WND article made me laugh out loud though, near the end.... they just don't even try to maintain the appearance sanity anymore (if they ever did) :)



... If the current trends in our nation continue, churches may be forced underground ..

... If you look at China, the church grew from home Bible studies. I'm deeply concerned that if in the U.S. we are not able to meet in our homes and freely practice our religion, then we may be worse off than China." ...

Broyles also explained to WND that oppressive governments, such as communist China or Nazi Germany, worked to repress home fellowships, labeling them the "underground church" or "subversive groups," legally compelling Christians to meet only in sanctioned, government-controlled "official" churches.


BE AFRAID! :eek:

megimoo
05-27-2009, 02:56 PM
Well, all they should have said is that they were holding an orgie and all would have been well.

Seriously, this was predicted long, long ago. Read Revelations.
All they would need is half a dozen gays out front on the sidewalk tied up in a queer sex orgy and all would be well .It's a 'hate crime' to mess with them dudes !

noonwitch
05-27-2009, 03:09 PM
I have to wonder if there were noise complaints, and the official wasnt just trying to assess if they were the true source of the noise?

The WND article made me laugh out loud though, near the end.... they just don't even try to maintain the appearance sanity anymore (if they ever did) :)



BE AFRAID! :eek:


But if they are harrassing other people, it should be easy to prove. FOX needs to find out, because we know WND is going to stick to their take that it is harrassment of christians even if it is blatantly proved that the city is chasing down everyone in the area who has regular gatherings of any sort at their house.

wilbur
05-27-2009, 03:10 PM
But if they are harrassing other people, it should be easy to prove. FOX needs to find out, because we know WND is going to stick to their take that it is harrassment of christians even if it is blatantly proved that the city is chasing down everyone in the area who has regular gatherings of any sort at their house.

Well, I don't think it necessarily has to be everyone.... just everyone that has been complained about, if indeed this prayer meeting was complained about. Generally, thats the only reason the city comes knocking on someone's doors... complaints.

Space Gravy
05-27-2009, 03:12 PM
So if you and the boys get together for a weekly card game do you feel you need to obtain a permit? How about an every Friday night get together of friends to watch a DVD in your living room? Should that require a permit?

A card game isn't a good example. They are illegal. A judge in Atlanta was recently in hot water for running poker tournaments at his house with a 10K buy in.

I can see where a kennel, a weekly yard sale or bible study could be considered a structured event while a loose collection of friends wouldn't be. Don't get me wrong, I think these permits, especially the cost of a building permit are ridiculous. However, just because they shut down a kennel or make someone get rid of their chickens doesn't mean they're anti-animal. Just because they shut someone down who refuses to get yard sale permits doesn't mean they're anti-capitalists and just because they are after this group to comply with getting the required permits doesn't mean the City is anti-religous. Do you think if they had the permit they would be going through this? They are strictly after revenue. If what was reported was true that rep was pretty rude.

Some churches are as bad as some gays at playing the victim card. As soon as anything critical is said about them it's because everyone is out to get them. You're likely to be branded an anti-christ who relishes in god bashing. Do you seriously think this would be going on if this was being done in their church or if they had gotten the proper permits?

Odysseus
05-27-2009, 03:17 PM
These bureaucrats are just teaching people to lie.
What's next? Checking to see if you're using the right version of the bible? :rolleyes:
There is no "right" version of the bible, but all Qur'ans are acceptable. :D

Actually, they shut down a "swingers'" house out here. Since they couldn't make them get permits and licensing, they just hauled them into court for improper use of parking spots or something.
Sounds like improper parking of body parts. ;)

I have to wonder if there were noise complaints, and the official wasnt just trying to assess if they were the true source of the noise?
That's a logical and reasonable rationale for the questions and indicates clarity of thought. Who are you and how did you hack Wilbur's account?

MrsSmith
05-27-2009, 08:53 PM
I have to wonder if there were noise complaints,Oh, yeah...those Bible studies rate right up there with drunken parties when it comes to noise. :rolleyes:

I just have to wonder which DUmmie lives in that neighborhood...are any of them bragging about shutting down the fundies next door?

patriot45
05-27-2009, 09:13 PM
Oh, yeah...those Bible studies rate right up there with drunken parties when it comes to noise. :rolleyes:

I just have to wonder which DUmmie lives in that neighborhood...are any of them bragging about shutting down the fundies next door?



This is getting funny! On every Sunday during football season I have these disturbing meetings at my house, from 1:00 till at least 7:00 pm! Parking is atrocious, the chanting, GO BUCS! is bordering religeous!
The blaring of 2 tvs in 2 different rooms is airport worthy! This is not even talking about the Friday Nite Jukebox mass we do here! Things fall off the wall.

Been doing it for almost 10 years, never had a problem, I live on a main busy road with nieghbors on 3 sides, that I never talk to.

Had to be a DUmmy doing the bitching!

Bubba Dawg
05-27-2009, 10:17 PM
Actually, they shut down a "swingers'" house out here. Since they couldn't make them get permits and licensing, they just hauled them into court for improper use of parking spots or something.

What department of city/county government handles liscensing.....

Gingersnap
05-27-2009, 11:40 PM
What department of city/county government handles liscensing.....

I'm guessing 'livestock permits'. Most of us are zoned for that out here.