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View Full Version : Breaking: Gunman Shoots 2, Kills 1 at Military Recruiting Center



AHeneen
06-01-2009, 02:58 PM
Gunman Shoots 2 at Arkansas Military Recruitment Center
Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,523860,00.html)

DEVELOPING: A gunman opened fire Monday at an army recruitment center in Little Rock, Ark., killing one army recruiter and seriously wounding another, FOX16.com reported.

A man in a black SUV drove to the recruitment office and began shooting at around 10:19 a.m., a spokesman with the Little Rock police department told FOX News.

The suspect, who immediately fled the scene, was later apprehended approximately four miles from the center with an assault rifle in his vehicle.

Little Rock authorities detected a "suspicious device" inside the vehicle and called a bomb squad to the scene, according to FOX16.com.

Speedy
06-01-2009, 03:07 PM
Earlier, Barack Obama could stampede to before the carmeras to make a statement fast enough (once the teleprompter was loaded, of course) about the death of the abortion doctor. I wonder if he will express the same outrage.

BadCat
06-01-2009, 03:08 PM
Earlier, Barack Obama could stampede to before the carmeras to make a statement fast enough (once the teleprompter was loaded, of course) about the death of the abortion doctor. I wonder if he will express the same outrage.

Don't hold your breath.

FlaGator
06-01-2009, 03:17 PM
I'm sure DU will spin it like this: "It's was an plot by the vast right wing conspiracy to distract America from the real issue of the Abortion doctor's murder."

Or this: "The wingnuts are going to blame this on us when it was really just some crazy guy who's probably a repug anyways."

ralph wiggum
06-01-2009, 03:20 PM
I'm sure DU will spin it like this: "It's was an plot by the vast right wing conspiracy to distract America from the real issue of the Abortion doctor's murder."

Or this: "The wingnuts are going to blame this on us when it was really just some crazy guy who's probably a repug anyways."

They are strangely silent thus far.

FlaGator
06-01-2009, 05:40 PM
They are strangely silent thus far.

There's a surprise for you. I guess their waiting for someone with clout to weigh in first and tell them how they feel about it.

Rockntractor
06-01-2009, 05:56 PM
There's a surprise for you. I guess their waiting for someone with clout to weigh in first and tell them how they feel about it.
That is exactly what they do!

hazlnut
06-01-2009, 07:07 PM
Calm down, already.

Gee... Maybe they are waiting to find out the details of the case.

What was the motive?

Did the shooter know the victim?

Do any of you know?

movie buff
06-01-2009, 07:49 PM
Since nobody else has said it yet, I guess I will:
What do you think the shooter's DU name is?

NJCardFan
06-01-2009, 08:47 PM
Word is a Muslim convert did the shooting. I'm waiting with baited breath for this to be called a man made disaster. http://www.usatoday.com/news/military/2009-06-01-army-recruiter-killed_N.htm The man never served in the military so IMO this was an act of terrorism. However, the MSM will largly ignore this.

stsinner
06-02-2009, 12:00 AM
Heard on the radio that he had recently converted to Islam.. GASP!!!! Why would that ever be significant??? (other than it's us or them..)

Rockntractor
06-02-2009, 12:04 AM
Heard on the radio that he had recently converted to Islam.. GASP!!!! Why would that ever be significant??? (other than it's us or them..)
This is religeous extremism. Where is the outrage?

Odysseus
06-02-2009, 01:17 AM
Calm down, already.
Gee... Maybe they are waiting to find out the details of the case.
What was the motive?
Did the shooter know the victim?
Do any of you know?

We do now:


By William M. Welch, USA TODAY
A Muslim convert who said he was opposed to the U.S. military shot two soldiers outside an Arkansas recruiting station, killing one, police said Monday.
"This individual appears to have been upset with the military, the Army in particular, and that's why he did what he did," Little Rock Police Lt. Terry Hastings said in a phone interview.

"He has converted to (Islam) here in the past few years," Hastings said. "We're not completely clear on what he was upset about. He had never been in the military.

Any thoughts on the subject now?

FlaGator
06-02-2009, 06:30 AM
Calm down, already.

Gee... Maybe they are waiting to find out the details of the case.

What was the motive?

Did the shooter know the victim?

Do any of you know?

You don't know DU very well do you. They rarely let something like "knowing the whole story" stop them from commenting.

lacarnut
06-02-2009, 06:49 AM
Calm down, already.

Gee... Maybe they are waiting to find out the details of the case.

What was the motive?

Did the shooter know the victim?

Do any of you know?

The O could not wait to pour out the crocodile tears for a mass murdering abortion doctor. Gunning down soldiers is not as politically charged. Correct. The Magic Negro needs to wait, find out the details, what his motive was, did the shooter know the victim, blah, blah. You liberals are so predictable along with being hypocrites.

movie buff
06-02-2009, 07:26 AM
This is religeous extremism. Where is the outrage?

Well, see, for liberals at least, the only time for outrage to be expressed is if the killer claims to be Christian. If it's any other religion (Especially Muslim or atheist/ agnostic), they feel more sympathy for the killer than for his victims. Case in point: The December 2007 Denver church shooting.

Japandroid
06-02-2009, 08:15 AM
This is religeous extremism. Where is the outrage?

And the murder in Kentucky wasn't?

Rockntractor
06-02-2009, 09:12 AM
And the murder in Kentucky wasn't?
Has there been another murder I haven't heard about?

Odysseus
06-02-2009, 09:36 AM
And the murder in Kentucky wasn't?

Both are a result of religious extremism, but of the two, our commander-in-chief only chose to weigh in on the one that supported his agenda, while ignoring the murder of a newly enlisted soldier and the wounding of another. I guess swearing to support and defend the Constitution and to obey the orders of the President doesn't count as much with this commander-in-chief as ripping babies apart in the womb.

expat-pattaya
06-02-2009, 11:01 AM
What a piece of human excrement. And of course, since the victims and culprit don't fit the MSM view of the world it is downplayed.

RIP soldier.




And hopefully we send the muslim fanatic asshole who shot you to join you soon.

noonwitch
06-02-2009, 11:52 AM
This guy is no different than the guy who shot Dr. Tiller.
Both were religious fanatics who thought they were doing what their god wanted them to do. Both were likely proud of their actions.

I'll bet the killer of the soldier gets the death penalty.

hazlnut
06-02-2009, 01:01 PM
We do now:



Any thoughts on the subject now?


Very sad and tragic, just like Dr. Tiller's murder.

Mentally unstable people should not have access to guns.

We can all be more aware in our daily lives of individuals who are slipping away, getting depressed, expressing violent thoughts, etc.

We are all in this together, right Odysseus?


My thoughts and prayers go out to the victims' families.

expat-pattaya
06-02-2009, 01:13 PM
There is one significant difference between this guy and the killer of Tiller.

The media won't drag all muslim converts through the mud in association just cause this nut killed someone. They will associate all pro-lifers with the Tiller shooter. The media won't mention that SOME muslim mosques preach hate and violence but will cover the fact that SOME whack jobs in the anti-abortion movement preach violence.

The difference is simple. The media.

Same as how if the KKK had been standing in front of a voting place last election the media would be demanding a trial and imprisonment for voter intimidation. It would be front page and a constant drumbeat. But Black Panthers can do the same and it is ho hum that the .gov drops all charges.

hazlnut
06-02-2009, 01:43 PM
There is one significant difference between this guy and the killer of Tiller.

The media won't drag all muslim converts through the mud in association just cause this nut killed someone. They will associate all pro-lifers with the Tiller shooter. The media won't mention that SOME muslim mosques preach hate and violence but will cover the fact that SOME whack jobs in the anti-abortion movement preach violence.

The difference is simple. The media.

Same as how if the KKK had been standing in front of a voting place last election the media would be demanding a trial and imprisonment for voter intimidation. It would be front page and a constant drumbeat. But Black Panthers can do the same and it is ho hum that the .gov drops all charges.

Perhaps, but I think you may be overlooking a few things.

1) Dr. Tiller was a controversial figure. He was shot before and has been in the news.

2) Some members of the pro-life movement can be polarizing in their attempts to further their cause.

3) Abortion is a hot-button issue.

5) This is coming on the heels of the Notre Dame graduation.

4) While muslim extremism is of great concern to our national security, the recruiter shooting doesn't seem to involve a cell or even a person who was connected to some legitimate extremist group. Although he calls himself a muslim convert, do muslims extreme or otherwise, see him as such.

IMO, Both events are tragic. And, all things being equal, they would get covered in an appropriate way.

I saw almost an equal amount of coverage on Fox and CNN last night. MSNBC I don't watch, so I don't know. The bottom line is the Tiller shooting and the many characters and issues involved will hold an audiences attention longer. Cable news will always fill their 8-10 minute segments with stories covered from the angle that will hold their audience.

A while back Sara Palin raised the issue of her coverage vs. Caroline Kennedy's coverage. I would say this to her. Governor Palin, you are much more interesting person. You're a more dynamic speaker and way better looking. TV is visual medium. You will get 3 times as much coverage as a Caroline Kennedy no matter what you're doing.

Teetop
06-02-2009, 03:23 PM
And the murder in Kentucky wasn't?

You're only a few miles off, DUmmie.

Odysseus
06-02-2009, 04:17 PM
This guy is no different than the guy who shot Dr. Tiller.
Both were religious fanatics who thought they were doing what their god wanted them to do. Both were likely proud of their actions.

I'll bet the killer of the soldier gets the death penalty.
Maybe, but I doubt it.

Very sad and tragic, just like Dr. Tiller's murder.
Mentally unstable people should not have access to guns.
We can all be more aware in our daily lives of individuals who are slipping away, getting depressed, expressing violent thoughts, etc.
Kind of missed the big picture, there, didn't you? It's not simply "sad and tragic," it's far more than that. It's part of a strategic situation that you don't really get.

We are all in this together, right Odysseus?
You tell me, media man.

Two guys who wear the same uniform that I wear were targeted for murder because they belonged to the Army. If I'd been there, he'd have put me in his sights. Where's the breathless coverage of the murderer of a Soldier and the wounding of another? You know the name of the victim in the abortion doctor shooting, but do you know the names of the two victims in the recruiting center? Without googling, tell me. I'll bet that you don't.

Odysseus
06-02-2009, 04:44 PM
Perhaps, but I think you may be overlooking a few things.

1) Dr. Tiller was a controversial figure. He was shot before and has been in the news.
2) Some members of the pro-life movement can be polarizing in their attempts to further their cause.
3) Abortion is a hot-button issue.
5) This is coming on the heels of the Notre Dame graduation.
4) While muslim extremism is of great concern to our national security, the recruiter shooting doesn't seem to involve a cell or even a person who was connected to some legitimate extremist group. Although he calls himself a muslim convert, do muslims extreme or otherwise, see him as such.
IMO, Both events are tragic. And, all things being equal, they would get covered in an appropriate way.
I saw almost an equal amount of coverage on Fox and CNN last night. MSNBC I don't watch, so I don't know. The bottom line is the Tiller shooting and the many characters and issues involved will hold an audiences attention longer. Cable news will always fill their 8-10 minute segments with stories covered from the angle that will hold their audience.
A while back Sara Palin raised the issue of her coverage vs. Caroline Kennedy's coverage. I would say this to her. Governor Palin, you are much more interesting person. You're a more dynamic speaker and way better looking. TV is visual medium. You will get 3 times as much coverage as a Caroline Kennedy no matter what you're doing.
Let's take a look at the things that you're overlooking, one at a time.
1) Soldiers are supposedly not controversial figures. Our country is supposed to support us. Somehow, however, someone decided that membership in the armed forces makes us viable targets because they didn't like America or the Army. Again.
2) Some members of the global jihad can be polarizing, too. But, how many abortion providers have been killed by pro-lifers compared with non-Muslims who have been killed by Muslims? There's an order of magnitude in difference.
3) Global jihad is a hot button issue, especially if you have daughters and don't want them growing up in burkas.
5) Normally, 4 comes after 5, but whatever you say, pal. If you want to make the assertion that the shooting of the doctor is somehow tied into the peaceful protests at Notre Dame, how about making the assertion that the shootings of the two Soldiers are tied into the war against Islamic terrorism and the anti-military statements made by the president when he was a candidate, the leadership of the congress and more celebrities than I could name?
4) If he performs the five requirements of Islam, then, yes, he is a Muslim. As for his lack of affiliation with a cell, that makes him more dangerous, not less. Al Qaeda had to spend a fortune on the 9/11 highjackers, who required lodging, food, clothing, flight lessons, multiple flights (for the actual event and rehearsals) and other expenses for over a year. Even if a terror group has the money, the increased scrutiny of funds makes this riskier. How much better is it if the global jihad can recruit individuals who will act in support of jihad, within the strategic intent of the terrorist leaders, but who are self-sustaining and require no support? Once converted and radicalized, such a person makes a perfect delivery system for terror, and he doesn't even have to be activated, he just needs to be bombarded with information that appeals to his radicalized worldview.

And, before you say that this is an isolated incident, it's not. Jihadis encourage lone wolf attacks. Islamist websites describe ways to conduct solo attacks and wax eloquent on the rewards awaiting the martyr. And it works. Here's a partial list of the more infamous acts (the ones that resulted in fatalities are in bold):



January 1990 – murder of an Egyptian Islamic freethinker in Tucson
November 1990 – assassination of Rabbi Meir Kahane in New York
January 1993 – assault on CIA personnel, killing two, outside the agency’s Langley, Virginia, headquarters
March 1994 – shooting attack on a van full of Orthodox Jewish boys driving over the Brooklyn Bridge, killing one
February 1997 – murder of a Danish tourist at the top of the Empire State Building
October 1999 – crash of an EgyptAir flight by the Egyptian pilot into the Atlantic near New York City, killing 217
March 1994 — Rashid Baz, a Muslim from Lebanon, opened fire on a van containing members of the Lubavitch Hassids in Brooklyn. One was killed.
February 1997 — Palestinian-born Ali Abu Kamal opened fire on the observation deck of the Empire State Building, killing a tourist and injuring six other people before committing suicide. His daughter, Linda Kamal, said in 2007 that the family is tired of lying and admitted that a letter had been found on her father’s body explaining his Muslim hatred for Israel and America.
1997 – Palestinian-born Gazi Ibrahim Abu Mezer, shot in the leg as he reached for a toggle switch on a pipe bomb. He was sentenced to life in prison after testifying he wanted to kill Jews riding the subway in Brooklyn.
July 2002 — Egyptian-born Hesham Mohammed Hadayet walked into the Israeli Airlines El Al terminal at the Los Angeles airport and began shooting Jews. He killed two and injured another four. He was known to sympathize with al Qaeda.
September 2002 — Patrick Gott killed one and wounded another in the New Orleans airport. He had entered the terminal with a shotgun and his Koran.
October 2002 — John Mohammed and Lee Malvo killed 13 people in the Washington, DC area. Both were converts to Islam and had attended a jihad training camp in southwestern Virginia.
March 2003 – US Army sergeant Hasan Karim Akbar, born Mark Fidel Kools, killed two officers of the 327th Infantry Regiment, 101st Airborne Division. “A Muslim should see himself as a Muslim only. His loyalty should be to Islam only.”
August 2003 — Mohammed Ali Alayed almost totally decapitated his erstwhile Jewish friend, Ariel Sellouk, following Alayed’s getting serious about his Islamic faith. He went to a mosque after killing Sellouk.
August 2003 – Maher Mofeid “Mike” Hawash, Palestinian born executive at Intel pleaded guilty to conspiring to help the Taliban. (from The Terrorist Next Door)
August 2004 – James Elshafay and Shawar Matin Siraj plan to bomb New York’s Herald Square subway station, near the site of the 2004 Republican National Convention
October 2005 — Joel Henry Hinrichs III, a convert to Islam, was an engineering student at Oklahoma University. His student career ended when a bomb he had strapped on himself went off prematurely outside a crowed stadium, killing only himself. Police subsequently cleared explosives from the apartment that Hinrichs had shared with Muslim students from Pakistan.
May 2006 — Mohammed Reza Taheri-azar, a University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill student, rented an SUV and drove it through a crowded part of the campus — intentionally trying to hit people and wounding nine. In a series of letters to the student newspaper, he explained that he acted in obedience to Koranic dictates.
June 2006 — Michael Ford, a Muslim convert, walked into work at a Safeway warehouse in Denver and opened fire on his coworkers, killing one and injuring five. Relatives explained that he was being teased at work because he’s a Muslim and he could not take it anymore.
July 2006 — Naveed Alzal Haq, a Pakistani, walked into the Jewish Federation Center in downtown Seattle and shot six women — killing one and wounding five (one of whom was pregnant). He stated matter-of-factly: “I am a Muslim American angry at Israel.”
August 2006 — Omeed Aziz Popal, a Muslim Afghan refugee, used his SUV as a weapon and ran down at least 14 people and a bicyclist in the San Francisco Bay area. He was targeting Jewish neighborhoods to terrorize.
January 2007 — A 22-year-old Muslim, Ismail Yassin Mohamed, stole a car in Minneapolis and rammed it into other cars before stealing a van and doing the same, injuring several drivers and pedestrians before police finally caught up with him. Mohamed called himself a “terrorist.”
February 2007 — Ibrihim Ahmed, a Nashville cab driver and Muslim, was enraged that two passengers did not agree with him about Islam. When they got out of the cab, he tried to run them down, striking one in a parking lot.
February 2007 –Sulejman Talovic, a Bosnian Muslim immigrant, went to a Salt Lake City mosque on a Friday night. Then he went to one of only two malls in the state which prohibits civilian carrying of concealed weapons. He killed five before an off-duty cop (not subject to the ban) used a concealed firearm to stop his murder spree.
September 2007 – Dearborn resident Houssein Zorkot was armed with an AK-47 assault rifle and dressed in black clothing with camouflage paint covering his face when he was arrested Saturday in Hemlock Park. Source: NTA
October 2007 – Wielding two butcher knives bought at Wal-Mart and vodka bottles to use as explosives, Tahmeed Ahmad chanted ”Death to America” and told Homestead Air Reserve Base guards he wanted to kill soldiers.
June 2009 – Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad, born Carlos Bledsoe, shoots two U.S. soldiers, killing one, at an Arkansas military recruiting center


The killing of Dr. Tiller is repugnant and evil, but the murder of PVT William Long and the wounding of PVT Quinton Ezeagwula are part of a far more serious and deadly trend. If our national media were more concerned with the substance of stories rather than the political horseraces that they're trying to fix, they'd report this in context.

jediab
06-04-2009, 10:01 AM
My soon to be out of business liberal rag for a newpaper Minneapolis Star Tribune yesterday had a large write up about the killer of the baby mangler. It told about how the guy was anti-tax first, then got into other anti-govrnment topics later. And despite my attempts, and I might have missed it, but I was not able to locate 1 single article about the soldiers that were killed. No wonder the paper is going under.

Odysseus
06-04-2009, 11:22 AM
My soon to be out of business liberal rag for a newpaper Minneapolis Star Tribune yesterday had a large write up about the killer of the baby mangler. It told about how the guy was anti-tax first, then got into other anti-govrnment topics later. And despite my attempts, and I might have missed it, but I was not able to locate 1 single article about the soldiers that were killed. No wonder the paper is going under.

There was a case a few years ago at McGuire AFB, which is co-located with FT Dix, in which a senior airman was shot and wounded by an antiwar moonbat. The story was covered by a number of online sources, but the NY Times ignored it.

But, the critical issue here is not simply that the media is ignoring stories that are unflattering to its perceived allies, it's that they are actually ignoring a dangerous and growing trend of violence by Islamic converts and immigrants in the US, a trend that has serious security implications for the nation and impacts on all sorts of policy areas, from the penal system to immigration to public area security protocols. This is what terrorism looks like in Israel, where every Palestinian is suspect and the majority live in terror and have to take extreme measures to fight it. The time to fight terrorism isn't when it's a full-blown war, but when it's incubating, by restricting the flow of new, radicalized immigrants, cracking down on the mosques that are funded by extremist Wahabbi sects and create martyr wannabes and removing the Islamic conversion facilitation in prisons. Otherwise, this will continue to grow. In addition, we have to understand one important aspect of the jihadi mindset. They don't want to negotiate, assimilate or be welcomed by a diverse, inclusionary chorus of kumbaya-singing well-wishers. They want to kill or subjugate non-believers, and they see guys like this shooter as heroes. Ignoring them and explaining away their actions doesn't make them less violent, it makes them more violent, because it's the only way that they can be noticed. By treating this as just another piece of the partisan horse race, the media is guaranteeing that each subsequent terror act will be bigger and badder until someone racks up a body count that can't be excused or explained away. When that happens, the media, which claims to believe in free speech and expression, will have ensured the implementation of security measures that will make civil libertarians howl. By downplaying the acts and villifying those who want to take preventative measures and strangle this monster in its crib, the media's bias is guaranteeing that we will have to try to crack down on it when it's a full-grown coast to coast intifada from.

hazlnut
06-04-2009, 02:49 PM
Let's take a look at the things that you're overlooking, one at a time.
1) Soldiers are supposedly not controversial figures. Our country is supposed to support us. Somehow, however, someone decided that membership in the armed forces makes us viable targets because they didn't like America or the Army. Again.
2) Some members of the global jihad can be polarizing, too. But, how many abortion providers have been killed by pro-lifers compared with non-Muslims who have been killed by Muslims? There's an order of magnitude in difference.
3) Global jihad is a hot button issue, especially if you have daughters and don't want them growing up in burkas.
5) Normally, 4 comes after 5, but whatever you say, pal. If you want to make the assertion that the shooting of the doctor is somehow tied into the peaceful protests at Notre Dame, how about making the assertion that the shootings of the two Soldiers are tied into the war against Islamic terrorism and the anti-military statements made by the president when he was a candidate, the leadership of the congress and more celebrities than I could name?
4) If he performs the five requirements of Islam, then, yes, he is a Muslim. As for his lack of affiliation with a cell, that makes him more dangerous, not less. Al Qaeda had to spend a fortune on the 9/11 highjackers, who required lodging, food, clothing, flight lessons, multiple flights (for the actual event and rehearsals) and other expenses for over a year. Even if a terror group has the money, the increased scrutiny of funds makes this riskier. How much better is it if the global jihad can recruit individuals who will act in support of jihad, within the strategic intent of the terrorist leaders, but who are self-sustaining and require no support? Once converted and radicalized, such a person makes a perfect delivery system for terror, and he doesn't even have to be activated, he just needs to be bombarded with information that appeals to his radicalized worldview.

And, before you say that this is an isolated incident, it's not. Jihadis encourage lone wolf attacks. Islamist websites describe ways to conduct solo attacks and wax eloquent on the rewards awaiting the martyr. And it works. Here's a partial list of the more infamous acts (the ones that resulted in fatalities are in bold):



The killing of Dr. Tiller is repugnant and evil, but the murder of PVT William Long and the wounding of PVT Quinton Ezeagwula are part of a far more serious and deadly trend. If our national media were more concerned with the substance of stories rather than the political horseraces that they're trying to fix, they'd report this in context.

Since you and I have discussed this, I have seen/heard more coverage of this story then that of Tiller's shooting. They (CNN, Fox) are also covering it from the angle you mentioned in the PM--looking at the shooting in terms of the larger picture.

Regarding what you said about complacency, that may be true with Obama, but I believe the FBI field agents to be hard-working bright people dedicated to keeping us safe. This one slipped through, no details yet on how many red flags had gone up, but I have faith in the folks working in Federal law enforcement.

Teetop
06-04-2009, 04:10 PM
Regarding what you said about complacency, that may be true with Obama, but I believe the FBI field agents to be hard-working bright people dedicated to keeping us safe. This one slipped through, no details yet on how many red flags had gone up, but I have faith in the folks working in Federal law enforcement.

The suspect arrested in the fatal shooting of one soldier and the critical injury of another at a Little Rock, Ark., Army recruiting booth today was under investigation by the FBI's Joint Terrorist Task Force since his return from Yemen, ABC News has learned.

The location of a fatal shooting outside a military recruitment office in a Little Rock, Ark.,...
The location of a fatal shooting outside a military recruitment office in a Little Rock, Ark., shopping center Monday, June 1, 2009, is shown. A new soldier helping to attract others to the military was shot and killed outside the office and a second soldier was wounded, and a suspect was arrested, police said.
(ABC News)The investigation was in its preliminary stages, authorities said, and was based on the suspect's travel to Yemen and his arrest there for using a Somali passport.
(http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=7730637&page=1)

Or the current D.O.J. personnel told the FBI to cool it about investigating Muslims...

cat714
06-04-2009, 07:54 PM
What makes this situation even more disgusting is that his scum bag defense attorney is claiming its the FBI's fault that his client did this because they left him in Yemen. WTF?! :mad:

LINK (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,525152,00.html)

I really feel for the friends and families of these soliders who not only have to deal with this tragedy, but the apologists coming out and saying the US is at fault for this. A baby killer gets sympathy from our President when he is gunned down, but nothing for two recent grads in uniform who were doing nothing but shoot'n the breeze outside.

Odysseus
06-04-2009, 08:55 PM
Since you and I have discussed this, I have seen/heard more coverage of this story then that of Tiller's shooting. They (CNN, Fox) are also covering it from the angle you mentioned in the PM--looking at the shooting in terms of the larger picture.

Regarding what you said about complacency, that may be true with Obama, but I believe the FBI field agents to be hard-working bright people dedicated to keeping us safe. This one slipped through, no details yet on how many red flags had gone up, but I have faith in the folks working in Federal law enforcement.

It's not the FBI that I have a problem with. It's the media that has ill-served the American people by presenting a global clash of civilizations as a minor back-story in their narcissistic coverage of domestic politics, and the politicians who play these issues out of both sides of their mouths for short term gains. If the FBI had grabbed him, your pals in the press would have screamed bloody murder about the violations of his rights and demanded to know why they were oppressing him, while the pols would have demanded truth commissions and prosecutions of the agents who did their jobs. How are we supposed to fight if we're constantly looking over our shoulders?

When we caught a Muslim attempting to photograph our BDE headquarters at FT Totten a few years ago, the FBI agents who came to the scene were more worried about being sued or disciplined than they were about the threat that this guy posed, until they looked at his camera and saw that he'd been in the Middle East a few days previously. We're in an existential conflict with a culture that wants us dead, converted or enslaved and the people who have to fight it are under attack from our own media and government. Look at your kids and ask yourself how your son would look in a suicide vest, or your daughter would look in a burqa, and you'll understand what I feel when I think about the disconnect between what you report and the tsunami of jihad that's heading our way.

AmPat
06-04-2009, 10:21 PM
Alas ODY, overwhelming evidence is lost in partisan politics on liberals like hazelNUT. HAZelnut will hopefully come to his senses before it is too late. Unfortunately our press/media and the majority of governmnet (DimocRATS) have gone down a path of what I fear to be of no return: Coddle the terrorists and prosecute our patriots.:mad:

hazlnut
06-05-2009, 01:35 AM
Alas ODY, overwhelming evidence is lost in partisan politics on liberals like hazelNUT. HAZelnut will hopefully come to his senses before it is too late. Unfortunately our press/media and the majority of governmnet (DimocRATS) have gone down a path of what I fear to be of no return: Coddle the terrorists and prosecute our patriots.:mad:

I'm liberal because I believe the FBI are dedicated hardworking people?

Like I said, it looks like this one slipped though, we don't have all the details yet. I trust they will discipline any agents that may have dropped the ball, redouble their efforts, and move on.

Odysseus
06-05-2009, 09:45 AM
Alas ODY, overwhelming evidence is lost in partisan politics on liberals like hazelNUT. HAZelnut will hopefully come to his senses before it is too late. Unfortunately our press/media and the majority of governmnet (DimocRATS) have gone down a path of what I fear to be of no return: Coddle the terrorists and prosecute our patriots.:mad:
I'm trying, but it's like talking to a brick wall through a high speed internet connection.

I'm liberal because I believe the FBI are dedicated hardworking people?

Like I said, it looks like this one slipped though, we don't have all the details yet. I trust they will discipline any agents that may have dropped the ball, redouble their efforts, and move on.
Yeah, that's the answer! Punish the agents! Because we all know that no matter how many stupid, ridiculous impediments our politicians throw at them, they're the ones who actually try to do the job while the media/political axis snipes at them from the safety that they provide. Besdies, those GS11s don't go to Georgetown parties or $10,000 a plate fund raisers with celebrities, so they are expendable. Dime a dozen and all that. We'll just recruit more of them, spend years training them, and throw them to the wolves when it's convenient. But how to punish them...?

I know, we can make them brief Nancy Pelosi on what steps they weren't allowed to take because of PC BS, and then have them lawyer up when she calls them liars five years down the line. That level of stress ought to be plenty of punishment, but if it isn't, I can count on your pals in the media to publish every detail of their personal lives and drag them, their families and their agency through the mud.

Are you even beginning to pick up what's wrong with this? Hint: It's not the FBI that dropped the ball.

hazlnut
06-05-2009, 10:33 AM
Are you even beginning to pick up what's wrong with this? Hint: It's not the FBI that dropped the ball.

I don't believe it is either.

I'm not even sure a ball was dropped. There's not enough info out on this story. This guy may have just flown under the radar. He seems like a wanna-be, but that does not lessen the reality of the act and what it mean to extremists.

Odysseus
06-06-2009, 08:39 PM
I don't believe it is either.

I'm not even sure a ball was dropped. There's not enough info out on this story. This guy may have just flown under the radar. He seems like a wanna-be, but that does not lessen the reality of the act and what it mean to extremists.
Okay, so you don't believe the ball was dropped, but two posts back, you said that you wanted to see the agents who dropped the ball disciplined. Make up your mind, or better yet, stop trying to triangulate, split the difference or otherwise try to show me how "reasonable" you can be and think about what the world will look like in a few decades, when the US is seeing daily attacks, and you're wondering why guys like me didn't protect you.

To paraphrase Yoda, "There is no wannabe! There is do, or do not." The problem with the global jihad is that anyone can become a player by picking up a weapon and going to a place where his targets will be present. An El Al counter at LAX, an Armed Forces recruiting station, a Jewish center in Mumbai, it's all the same to the jihadis. Killing infidels is considered a righteous act, and the motivation is preached in 80% of the mosques in America (the ones owned by the Saudis through their shell corporations). We're seeing a fifth column forming in America, with Islam becoming what Marxism used to be, namely the ideological crutch for this generation of moral cripples (what the counterculture used to do in prisons, radicalizing those with a propensity for violence and networking them with others of a similar bent is now done by prison chaplains). This is bad enough, but these neo-revolutionaries are protected by those who are supposed to inform the American people so that they can take steps to protect themselves. Instead of ratcheting up fear over fake crises like health care costs, global warming (or global cooling or global lukewarming, or whatever it is this week), sexism, racism, homophobia or Islamophobia, it would be nice if the media actually reported on the people who are being inculcated in hate within our borders. The media is a part of it, and since you're an employee of that media, that makes you part of the problem, and I'm not letting you or your profession off the hook, since the only satisfaction that I may get if we lose this war is that I told you so, and I want you to remember that when you're paying the dhimmi tax and praying that your wife or daughter isn't showing too much hair or ankle for the mutawah.

Teetop
06-06-2009, 10:43 PM
[QUOTE=Odysseus;143100]Okay, so you don't believe the ball was dropped, but two posts back, you said that you wanted to see the agents who dropped the ball disciplined. Make up your mind, or better yet, stop trying to triangulate, split the difference or otherwise try to show me how "reasonable" you can be and think about what the world will look like in a few decades, when the US is seeing daily attacks, and you're wondering why guys like me didn't protect you.[QUOTE]

Nuance=bulllshit, Sir.

AmPat
06-06-2009, 10:48 PM
I'm liberal because I believe the FBI are dedicated hardworking people?

Like I said, it looks like this one slipped though, we don't have all the details yet. I trust they will discipline any agents that may have dropped the ball, redouble their efforts, and move on.

:rolleyes:Poor attempt to deflect, but I'll play. NO! You are liberal because of every position you take on this board. It is called evidence.

Odysseus
06-08-2009, 08:56 PM
Okay, so you don't believe the ball was dropped, but two posts back, you said that you wanted to see the agents who dropped the ball disciplined. Make up your mind, or better yet, stop trying to triangulate, split the difference or otherwise try to show me how "reasonable" you can be and think about what the world will look like in a few decades, when the US is seeing daily attacks, and you're wondering why guys like me didn't protect you.

Nuance=bulllshit, Sir.
No kidding. :rolleyes:

:rolleyes:Poor attempt to deflect, but I'll play. NO! You are liberal because of every position you take on this board. It is called evidence.
It's kind of hard to tie Hazlnut to a single position on this one. First, he tries to deny that there was any connection between this shooter and the global Jihad and imply that we were jumping the gun (while people who made the claim that Tiller was killed by a pro-lifer didn't get similarly rebuked). Then, when it became obvious that the killer was a jihadi, he tried to make the case that Tiller was more newsworthy because there were connections to be made to pro-life groups, while the jihadi worked alone. When it was explained to him that the jihadi was one of several dozen similarly inspired people, he backtracked again and wanted to see the FBI agents who "dropped the ball" disciplined. Then, when it was pointed out that it was the political leadership that was to blame, he then backtracked and claimed that he wasn't even sure that a ball was dropped and tried to make it seem that his sole point was that extremism is bad. Frankly, I haven't seen tap-dancing like that since Gene Kelly died. I expect his next post to ask if we can't all just get along.

Rockntractor
06-08-2009, 10:16 PM
He's a good dancer though!

http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/dance-7841.gif?t=1244513743

Japandroid
06-09-2009, 08:20 AM
Conservatives stick to the recruitment shooting because it takes focus away from the abortion shooting, liberals ignore the recruitment shooting because it takes focus away from the abortion shooting.

That's really all there is to this.

BadCat
06-09-2009, 10:58 AM
No kidding. :rolleyes:

It's kind of hard to tie Hazlnut to a single position on this one. First, he tries to deny that there was any connection between this shooter and the global Jihad and imply that we were jumping the gun (while people who made the claim that Tiller was killed by a pro-lifer didn't get similarly rebuked). Then, when it became obvious that the killer was a jihadi, he tried to make the case that Tiller was more newsworthy because there were connections to be made to pro-life groups, while the jihadi worked alone. When it was explained to him that the jihadi was one of several dozen similarly inspired people, he backtracked again and wanted to see the FBI agents who "dropped the ball" disciplined. Then, when it was pointed out that it was the political leadership that was to blame, he then backtracked and claimed that he wasn't even sure that a ball was dropped and tried to make it seem that his sole point was that extremism is bad. Frankly, I haven't seen tap-dancing like that since Gene Kelly died. I expect his next post to ask if we can't all just get along.

Yep, Hazl is one tap dancing fool.

Odysseus
06-09-2009, 12:18 PM
Conservatives stick to the recruitment shooting because it takes focus away from the abortion shooting, liberals ignore the recruitment shooting because it takes focus away from the abortion shooting.

That's really all there is to this.

That's "really all there is to this" if you assume that the shootings have no impact beyond scoring points in the news cycle. That's the least of it. What if there are underlying issues that aren't being covered because of this partisan circus? Put yourself in my boots for a second. I'm a Soldier and an officer. My job is to protect this country and the Soldiers under me and in order to do that, I have to analyze threats and determine courses of action. The question that I have to answer is not how this looks on the news, but rather, which is the greater threat to American security, the murder of an abortion doctor or the murder of a Soldier? What are the national security implications of each act? What steps can I take to prevent a recurrence? Let's examine these acts in that context:

First, what is the likelyhood of a repetition of each attack? Is the instigator in each case likely to be copied or provide a blueprint for further attacks? What is the most likely course of action in each case?

There have been a total of five abortion providers killed since Roe v. Wade legalized abortion, and perhaps twice as many bombings. Although this is apalling, it's not a huge number compared to the violence inflicted by the global jihad's agents in America. In the same period, even if you discount 9/11, in which over 3,000 people were killed in one day, the jihadis have killed dozens of people within the US and committed far more numerous bombings and attempted bombings, and the number is increasing every year. In addition, the influx of foreign jihadis through our broken immigration system and the conversion and radicalization of significant portions of our prison population means that the number of people inclined to do violence in the name of Islam within the US is also increasing. Throw in the coordinated, highly effective terror networks that are now taking funding and direction from Teheran, and you have an international movement with flexible sleepers constantly moving into positions from which they can attack us. On the other hand, violence against abortion doctors is isolated and a consequence of fringe outsiders from a movement that overwhelmingly opposes their actions, while jihadi violence is supported by a vast network of financial and religious ties to foreign and domestic enemies of the United States. Consequently, we can determine that a pro-lifer is less likely to initiate a violent or fatal action than a jihadi. In addition, the number of potentially violent actors is far less in the pro-life movement than in the global jihad. The most effective defensive courses of action are therefore based on the far greater likelyhood that the overwhelming preponderance of future violent acts are going to come from the jihadis.

Next, look at the victims. Dr. Tiller was an extremist in his own right, one of only a few doctors in the country who provided abortions in the final months of pregnancy, which made him one of the highest profiles on the side of the most extreme fringe of the pro-abortion side of the argument. In the highly contentious world of abortion politics, he stuck out like a sore thumb, and his being targeted was a consequence of an extremely controversial position and high profile. Compare that with PVT Long, who was just a Soldier back from basic training. He wasn't a combat vet, much less a highly decorated one, an officer or other high value target. Of the two, who has the more common profile? If you're not providing late term abortions, the odds on being killed by a pro-lifer are worse than the odds of hitting the lottery. OTOH, although Soldiers and Jews are their targets of choice, jihadis have targeted random people (the DC sniper, the tourists at the top of the Empire State Building, the crash of the EgyptAir flight, the New Orleans airport shooting, etc.) as well. In other words, as we saw on 9/11 and have continued to see ever since, the jihadi doesn't discriminate. All infidels are fair game. Which is more of a risk to the nation as a whole? Providing security for a few abortion providers would take minimal manning and expense. Providing security for the nation as a whole, with special attention to government, commercial or military targets and Jewish organizations or people with links to same is far more difficult, and requires far greater vigilance and resources. Where should we be spending time, money, effort and focus of law enforcement/intelligence assets?

Now, perhaps you want to argue that the anti-abortion murder goes beyond the victim, and involves the restriction of a broader right that affects millions of women? I'll see your woman's right to choose whether or not to reproduce and raise you that, plus her right to marry who she chooses, the right to drive, to leave her home unescorted, to vote, to hold office, to equality before the law, to practice her religion (or not to practice any), to wear the clothing of her choice in public, to own and dispose of her own property without the permission of her nearest male relative, to pursue an education and to pursue employment outside of the home, all of which will be lost if the jihadis get their way. Again, which is the greater abrogation of rights?

From every perspective, the jihadis are a far greater threat to America in general and women in particular and our media's refusal to cover this makes my job harder. Every attempt to increase security at likely targets is attacked from the left as a restriction on civil liberties and the other side of the equation, the actual risks and consequences, goes unreported. Restrictions on illegal immigration, which would at least cut down on the flow of external terrorists and their facilitators, is attacked as racist, as is restriction of the Islamic conversion and radicalization apparatus in our prisons, and don't get me started on the detention facility at Gitmo. If every request to secure our borders, high value targets or people, or detain known terrorists with long track records of violent attacks is presented as an unwarranted intrusion of government by power-hungry neocons and an attack on the rights of ordinary Americans, rather than specific, limited actions to reduce our vulnerability to terrorist attacks, how can the American people weigh the costs and benefits of the security measures? How can they make an informed decision of what to support?

This isn't a game to see who can embarass the other side. There are real lives at stake here, and by treating this as a partisan issue, rather than a genuine national security threat, the media is undermining our capacity to defend ourselves from real threats by focusing on fantasy threats. That's the problem.

AmPat
06-09-2009, 11:35 PM
Game














Set




















Match:)

Odysseus
06-10-2009, 11:58 AM
Game














Set




















Match:)

I do try. Remember, you can lead a horse to water, and if you hold his head under long enough, he's bound to drink some of it. :D

NJCardFan
06-10-2009, 12:32 PM
This isn't a game to see who can embarass the other side. There are real lives at stake here, and by treating this as a partisan issue, rather than a genuine national security threat, the media is undermining our capacity to defend ourselves from real threats by focusing on fantasy threats. That's the problem.
Odysseus, while I agree with you 1 million%, unfortunately that's not how the left feels. You are the pariah to them. You are the aggressor. You are a bigger threat to mankind than Tiller and his ilk. To them, you(when I say you, I'm speaking of the military in general) are only the saber in which the government rattles at it's whim. You invade sovereign countries(and by sovereign I mean countries who's leadership puts those who disagree with them into tire shredders) to entice them to live their lives as we do. Tiller was providing a service that he was completely within his rights to do within the law of the state of Kansas. And let's not forget that to the left, abortion rights are more important than human rights. And while what Tiller was doing was legal, does that make it right? If the left is going to use that line of thinking then we need to back off the slavery issue because slavery was also legal, was it not? Dr. Tiller is said to have killed over 60,000 babies. To steal a ploy from the left, that is Barbie-esque and I'm not talking about the doll. To the left, abortion rights is a religion of it's own, just like Islam and global warming.

Odysseus
06-10-2009, 08:37 PM
Odysseus, while I agree with you 1 million%, unfortunately that's not how the left feels. You are the pariah to them. You are the aggressor. You are a bigger threat to mankind than Tiller and his ilk. To them, you(when I say you, I'm speaking of the military in general) are only the saber in which the government rattles at it's whim. You invade sovereign countries(and by sovereign I mean countries who's leadership puts those who disagree with them into tire shredders) to entice them to live their lives as we do. Tiller was providing a service that he was completely within his rights to do within the law of the state of Kansas. And let's not forget that to the left, abortion rights are more important than human rights. And while what Tiller was doing was legal, does that make it right? If the left is going to use that line of thinking then we need to back off the slavery issue because slavery was also legal, was it not? Dr. Tiller is said to have killed over 60,000 babies. To steal a ploy from the left, that is Barbie-esque and I'm not talking about the doll. To the left, abortion rights is a religion of it's own, just like Islam and global warming.

No argument. That's exactly how the left sees the military. The question is, does the media see us the same way?;)

MrsSmith
06-10-2009, 09:09 PM
Conservatives stick to the recruitment shooting because it takes focus away from the abortion shooting, liberals ignore the recruitment shooting because it takes focus away from the abortion shooting.

That's really all there is to this.

I guess that theory totally pins the MSM to the left, doesn't it?

spikeville
06-21-2009, 10:23 PM
Is there a way for me to jump to the last page of a thread? I pretty much browse the Glock Talk most recent post page, and I have to click on the thread and then click to the last page. Does my question even make sense?

hazlnut
06-21-2009, 11:05 PM
You know what Odysseus, I reached out to you because I understood that the Little Rock shooting was personal for you. I was respectful and listened to what you had to say about it.

So why are you now being an asshole? Show me exactly where I said this:


It's kind of hard to tie Hazlnut to a single position on this one. First, he tries to deny that there was any connection between this shooter and the global Jihad and imply that we were jumping the gun (while people who made the claim that Tiller was killed by a pro-lifer didn't get similarly rebuked).

Either you completely misunderstood what I said or you're just making shit up.

PoliCon
06-21-2009, 11:09 PM
Calm down, already.

Gee... Maybe they are waiting to find out the details of the case.

What was the motive?

Did the shooter know the victim?

Do any of you know?


Once again we find hazlnut apologizing for the assholes on the left - and condemning Conservatives. :rolleyes: His next post will be one where he blames conservatives or conservative thinking.

PoliCon
06-21-2009, 11:11 PM
Very sad and tragic, just like Dr. Tiller's murder.

Mentally unstable people should not have access to guns.

We can all be more aware in our daily lives of individuals who are slipping away, getting depressed, expressing violent thoughts, etc.

We are all in this together, right Odysseus?


My thoughts and prayers go out to the victims' families. see I knew it. :rolleyes:

PoliCon
06-21-2009, 11:15 PM
Conservatives stick to the recruitment shooting because it takes focus away from the abortion shooting, liberals ignore the recruitment shooting because it takes focus away from the abortion shooting.

That's really all there is to this.
One was an act of terrorism and an attack on this NATION. The other is a tragedy - but justice none the less. NOW - Which one is which in your mind? :rolleyes:

hazlnut
06-21-2009, 11:33 PM
:rolleyes:Poor attempt to deflect, but I'll play. NO! You are liberal because of every position you take on this board. It is called evidence.

If you just want be on board where everyone is far-right and they agree with every pathetic lame idiotic desperate WND talking point--the go to Stomfront and hang with all the angry jackasses over there.

But stop putting words in my mouth and cherry picking statements about Rush or Hannity as evidence of anything but I DON'T LIKE THEM. Stop being so damn sensitive about every criticism--tell me what centrist ass O'Reilly is, or call McCain a RINO, you won't see me getting all bent out of shape.

And I don't care for racists bigots and homophobes either--BC, Stsinner, Lars, are given alot of room on that stuff, covertly and overtly, and rarely get called out. Maybe right of center isn't your type of Republican or conservative, but are they??

I'm not even being critical on this thread and it's still not 'conservative' enough for you. Too bad. Put me on ignore. Or give it some time and see what else I say around here. I know I've said some things you agree with, so be honest or don't, frankly I don't care.

PoliCon
06-21-2009, 11:49 PM
If you just want be on board where everyone is far-right and they agree with every pathetic lame idiotic desperate WND talking point--the go to Stomfront and hang with all the angry jackasses over there.

But stop putting words in my mouth and cherry picking statements about Rush or Hannity as evidence of anything but I DON'T LIKE THEM. Stop being so damn sensitive about every criticism--tell me what centrist ass O'Reilly is, or call McCain a RINO, you won't see me getting all bent out of shape.

And I don't care for racists bigots and homophobes either--BC, Stsinner, Lars, are given alot of room on that stuff, covertly and overtly, and rarely get called out. Maybe right of center isn't your type of Republican or conservative, but are they??

I'm not even being critical on this thread and it's still not 'conservative' enough for you. Too bad. Put me on ignore. Or give it some time and see what else I say around here. I know I've said some things you agree with, so be honest or don't, frankly I don't care.

http://forumspile.com/BooHoo-Big_baby.jpg

AmPat
06-22-2009, 08:55 PM
If you just want be on board where everyone is far-right and they agree with every pathetic lame idiotic desperate WND talking point--the go to Stomfront and hang with all the angry jackasses over there.

But stop putting words in my mouth and cherry picking statements about Rush or Hannity as evidence of anything but I DON'T LIKE THEM. Stop being so damn sensitive about every criticism--tell me what centrist ass O'Reilly is, or call McCain a RINO, you won't see me getting all bent out of shape.

And I don't care for racists bigots and homophobes either--BC, Stsinner, Lars, are given alot of room on that stuff, covertly and overtly, and rarely get called out. Maybe right of center isn't your type of Republican or conservative, but are they??

I'm not even being critical on this thread and it's still not 'conservative' enough for you. Too bad. Put me on ignore. Or give it some time and see what else I say around here. I know I've said some things you agree with, so be honest or don't, frankly I don't care.

Oh I'm honest to a fault. That is why I challenge some/most of the liberal slant I see. Apparently you are the one who needs to "stop being so damn sensitive about every criticism?":confused:
I don't visit stormfront but perhaps I will just to see what the noise is about.