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megimoo
07-04-2008, 04:30 PM
Schoolboys punished with detention for refusing to kneel in class and pray to Allah

Two schoolboys were given detention after refusing to kneel down and 'pray to Allah' during a religious education lesson.Parents were outraged that the two boys from year seven (11 to 12-year-olds) were punished for not wanting to take part in the practical demonstration of how Allah is worshipped.They said forcing their children to take part in the exercise at Alsager High School, near Stoke-on-Trent - which included wearing Muslim headgear - was a breach of their human rights.


Alsager School, near Stoke, has received furious complaints from parents after two Year 7 boys were punished for refusing to kneel to Allah during a religious studies class One parent, Sharon Luinen, said: "This isn't right, it's taking things too far.

"I understand that they have to learn about other religions. I can live with that but it is taking it a step too far to be punished because they wouldn't join in Muslim prayer.

"Making them pray to Allah, who isn't who they worship, is wrong and what got me is that they were told they were being disrespectful.
"I don't want this to look as if I have a problem with the school because I am generally very happy with it."

Another parent Karen Williams said: "I am absolutely furious my daughter was made to take part in it and I don't find it acceptable.snip

"But not only did they have to pray, the teacher had gone into the class and made them watch a short film and then said 'we are now going out to pray to Allah'.
"Then two boys got detention and all the other children missed their refreshment break because of the teacher.
http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/article-1031784/Schoolboys-punished-detention-refusing-kneel-pray-Allah.html

Junebug68
07-06-2008, 12:34 PM
England has become like some sort of bad farce - can they really be this STUPID???

PeterS
07-06-2008, 02:01 PM
Schoolboys punished with detention for refusing to kneel in class and pray to Allah

Two schoolboys were given detention after refusing to kneel down and 'pray to Allah' during a religious education lesson.Parents were outraged that the two boys from year seven (11 to 12-year-olds) were punished for not wanting to take part in the practical demonstration of how Allah is worshipped.They said forcing their children to take part in the exercise at Alsager High School, near Stoke-on-Trent - which included wearing Muslim headgear - was a breach of their human rights.


Alsager School, near Stoke, has received furious complaints from parents after two Year 7 boys were punished for refusing to kneel to Allah during a religious studies class One parent, Sharon Luinen, said: "This isn't right, it's taking things too far.

"I understand that they have to learn about other religions. I can live with that but it is taking it a step too far to be punished because they wouldn't join in Muslim prayer.

"Making them pray to Allah, who isn't who they worship, is wrong and what got me is that they were told they were being disrespectful.
"I don't want this to look as if I have a problem with the school because I am generally very happy with it."

Another parent Karen Williams said: "I am absolutely furious my daughter was made to take part in it and I don't find it acceptable.snip

"But not only did they have to pray, the teacher had gone into the class and made them watch a short film and then said 'we are now going out to pray to Allah'.
"Then two boys got detention and all the other children missed their refreshment break because of the teacher.
http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/article-1031784/Schoolboys-punished-detention-refusing-kneel-pray-Allah.html

What has this got to do with secularism?

Elspeth
07-06-2008, 02:09 PM
What has this got to do with secularism?

Actually, it has to do with cultural relativism, which some folks see as secularism, but which I see as a quasi-religious (in a bad way) "brotherhood of man" thing.

The story is outrageous, by the way. It's one thing to teach the Koran as literature or culture, but non-believers (or believers in other faiths) should NOT have to mimic behaviors of belief. That child abuse in my book.

I would be shocked except that I read "While Europe Slept: How Radical Islam is Destroying the West from Within" and this news story supports the hypothesis of this book.

biccat
07-06-2008, 02:30 PM
What has this got to do with secularism?
The concept of secularism has demeaned all religious beliefs to be mere exercises of cultural significance. The lack of tolerance for religious beliefs means that all religious beliefs can be taught the same without offending. Individuals of any faith can be forced to perform any act under the guise of "cultural education" because why should other cultural acts offend? Anyone who is offended by cultural acts is a bigot/racist/homophobe/sexist/enemy of the State and should be punished.

In the minds of secularists, this is no different than having kids dress up like Pilgrims or Indians to celebrate Thanksgiving in a non-religious observance.

megimoo
07-06-2008, 02:35 PM
Actually, it has to do with cultural relativism, which some folks see as secularism, but which I see as a quasi-religious (in a bad way) "brotherhood of man" thing.

The story is outrageous, by the way. It's one thing to teach the Koran as literature or culture, but non-believers (or believers in other faiths) should NOT have to mimic behaviors of belief. That child abuse in my book.

I would be shocked except that I read "While Europe Slept: How Radical Islam is Destroying the West from Within" and this news story supports the hypothesis of this book.Elspeth you are showing 'Great Promise' to this site.Keep it up !

wilbur
07-06-2008, 09:27 PM
The concept of secularism has demeaned all religious beliefs to be mere exercises of cultural significance. The lack of tolerance for religious beliefs means that all religious beliefs can be taught the same without offending. Individuals of any faith can be forced to perform any act under the guise of "cultural education" because why should other cultural acts offend? Anyone who is offended by cultural acts is a bigot/racist/homophobe/sexist/enemy of the State and should be punished.


What ever you are describing, it inst secularism. The absence of prayer in school, Islamic or Christian, would be secularism. Abstaining from promotion or even mentioning particular religious viewpoints when addressing issues or problems, etc would be secularism. What your describing is something else entirely.

Secularism is a good thing. From the blurb in the OP, it sounds like this teacher was genuinely trying to enforce Islamic prayer in a public school, not just to 'demonstrate the culture'. All forms of mandatory prayer (no matter what the religion) need to be eliminated from public institutions.

megimoo
07-06-2008, 09:51 PM
The concept of secularism has demeaned all religious beliefs to be mere exercises of cultural significance. The lack of tolerance for religious beliefs means that all religious beliefs can be taught the same without offending. Individuals of any faith can be forced to perform any act under the guise of "cultural education" because why should other cultural acts offend? Anyone who is offended by cultural acts is a bigot/racist/homophobe/sexist/enemy of the State and should be punished.

In the minds of secularists, this is no different than having kids dress up like Pilgrims or Indians to celebrate Thanksgiving in a non-religious observance.

"Secular humanism is a humanist philosophy that upholds reason, ethics, and justice, and specifically rejects the supernatural and the spiritual as warrants of moral reflection and decision-making.

Like other types of humanism, secular humanism is a life stance focusing on the way human beings can lead good and happy lives."

NO GOD is allowed in Secular English school Rooms unless it's a pre-aproved Islamic one.

megimoo
07-06-2008, 10:17 PM
The school in question - Alsager High School, near Stoke-on-Trent, is already trying to make excuses and wheedle out of responsibility. ...


"I'll bet A Cookie That The Teacher In Question Wears An Islamic Head Covering !"

Our thanks to the writer of a comment on our earlier story on Sharia Law for alerting us to this, unbelievable action by a British School.
How dare any teacher punish a child for refusing to kneel and pray to Allah. The school in question - Alsager High School, near Stoke-on-Trent, is already trying to make excuses and wheedle out of responsibility.
The Deputy headmaster Keith Plant has said: “It’s difficult to know at the moment whether this was part of the curriculum or not. I am not an RE teacher, I am an English teacher.
At the moment it is our enterprise week and many of our members of staff are away.
The particular member of staff you need to speak to isn’t around. I think that it is a shame that so many parents have got in touch with the Press before coming to me.

I have spoken to the teacher and she has articulately given me her version of events, but that is all I can give you at the moment.”
A statement from Cheshire County Council on behalf of the school read: “The headteacher David Black contacted this authority immediately complaints were received.
“Enquiries are being made into the circumstances as a matter of urgency and all parents will be informed accordingly.
“Educating children in the beliefs of different faith is part of the diversity curriculum on the basis that knowledge is essential to understanding.
“We accept that such teaching is to be conducted with some sense of sensitivity.”

http://www.bnp.org.uk/2008/07/detention-for-refusing-to-kneel-in-class-and-pray-to-allah/

biccat
07-06-2008, 10:46 PM
What ever you are describing, it inst secularism. The absence of prayer in school, Islamic or Christian, would be secularism. Abstaining from promotion or even mentioning particular religious viewpoints when addressing issues or problems, etc would be secularism. What your describing is something else entirely.
What I described is Political Correctness run amok. It is inexorably linked to secularism. The teacher was trying to educate kids on how to respect other cultures - namely Islamic culture. Since secularists devalue religious beliefs to the level of cultural traditions rather than religious observances, many secularists don't see anything wrong with this activity.


Secularism is a good thing. From the blurb in the OP, it sounds like this teacher was genuinely trying to enforce Islamic prayer in a public school, not just to 'demonstrate the culture'. All forms of mandatory prayer (no matter what the religion) need to be eliminated from public institutions.
Secularism is a good thing in certain settings. But too many secularists ignore the value of religion in our society and the effect it has had on bettering Western society and the world as a whole.

wilbur
07-07-2008, 07:10 AM
"Secular humanism is a humanist philosophy that upholds reason, ethics, and justice, and specifically rejects the supernatural and the spiritual as warrants of moral reflection and decision-making.

Like other types of humanism, secular humanism is a life stance focusing on the way human beings can lead good and happy lives."

NO GOD is allowed in Secular English school Rooms unless it's a pre-aproved Islamic one.

Thats what makes it by definition, not secular. As biccat said, this smells like PC multiculturalism run amuk... secularism is built around a notion that religious ideas/traditions etc just arent that valuable (or even detrimental), at least depending on the venue (like a public school). A secular school would/should tend to stick with and educate a diverse people while adhering only to commonly shared traditions and culture (non-religious). Not by forcing everyone to say a prayer in faiths that are not theirs.

This is just more of the same appeasement crap... Anyone ever see some awkward white guy trying to act overtly non-racist towards black people, but ends up just making himself look foolish? That seems like how the sensitive PC crowd tries to treat Islam these days... they try way too hard to act overtly non-islamaphobic.

FlaGator
07-07-2008, 11:00 AM
Secular Humanism places no value on religious beliefs, thus those who practice it do not understand the significance of asking a Christian to pray to Allah or a Muslim to pray to Jesus. Martyrs died in order to avoid praying to what they believe to be a pagan or false god. The teach may have thought that he was merely allowing these children to share an experience of being part of another religion but to those who are brought up devout the teacher was asking for them to commit an immoral act.

Actually the whole problem here is with the 'ism' being attached to secular or human. For example being feminine does not equate with feminism, being human does not equate to humanism and being secular is not the same thing as practicing secularism. These 'ism's tend to model the extreme behaviors of the causes or values that the adherents relate themselves to and try to express these beliefs as the norm. After a given period of time they see their views as the norm because they tend to associate with like minded people and forget that there are other points of view or those other points of view are more common than theirs. As an example, liberals tend to associate with liberals and come to the false conclusion that most people are liberal. When an election occurs and they are confronted with the fact that at least 50 percent of the population holds a different view they are shocked and have to find some external cause to explain why so many people don't hold the same view. This is the explanation for the 'stolen election' syndrome we've seen over the last 8 years.

Just my opinion. I'll shut up now :)

ConJinx
07-07-2008, 11:21 AM
The unsaid here is the worst. Islamic hardliners would kill all involved in this story, infidels are not to participate in this holy practice, especially if the weren't facing Mecca. This PC garbage will be the death of western beliefs. Include the other story of a British judge allowing for Sharia law to be practiced in muslim areas of Londinistan.