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megimoo
06-04-2009, 09:47 PM
Reaction after Obama addresses Muslims

"He knows by Now That He Will Never Be Re Elected
So He Goes For Broke ,To Take America Apart Now While He Has A Chance!"

U.S. President Barack Obama sought a "new beginning" between the United States and Muslims in a speech on Thursday but offered no new initiative to end the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, an omission likely to disappoint many.Below are reactions to his speech delivered from Cairo University in Egypt:
http://www.lucianne.com/thread/?artnum=474099

COMMENTS
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"ANY WORLD ORDER THAT ELEVATES ONE NATION OVER ANOTHER WILL FAIL..."
See? We're no better than North Korea or Venezuela, and don't you ever say that we are.

Un-freaking believable.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sorry, I didn't vote for this traitor.
He's totally disgusting. Change, no more of the past 8yrs under Bush, well this change is going to ruin all of us.
The left can trot out their 4,000+ dead military members, how about a nation of over a million whose fate is in the WON'S hands?
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"We?""" I didn't vote for him, and I'm not going to let anybody forget it.
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My reaction to this latest Obama stunt and to the people who voted for him is just plain unprintable.
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Hey Art, Don't include me with the idiots that voted for this gas bag traitor.
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Actually, "we" did not. I did not vote for him and never will.
I voted for someone who supported lower taxes, no tax money for killing almost-born babies, strong military, and a strong economy.
For those who did vote for TOTUS, remember the old adage:
Fool me once, shame on you,
Fool me twice, shame on me.

It will be evident in the coming elections if the "we" who put this TOTUS in office have learned anything. Or if they are so easeily fooled again.
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I didn't vote for him, either. I voted for Palin and McCain.
This speech is an outrage.
We lost 3,000 Americans on 9/11 and over 4,000 soldiers in the WOT and it wasn't because of a "misunderstanding" between the U.S. and Muslims.
This man should be impeached.


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These peaceful words probably summarize what most Muslims really think:

HASSAN FADLALLAH, LAWMAKER FOR LEBANON'S HEZBOLLAH

"The Islamic world does not need moral or political sermons. It needs a fundamental change in American policy beginning from a halt to complete support for Israeli aggression on the region, especially on Lebanese and Palestinians, to an American withdrawal from Iraq and Afghanistan and a stop to its interference in the affairs of Islamic countries."

"The U.S. administration bears the responsibility for the problems that Obama presented. Violence in the region, the source of which is the Zionist entity, American wars, and the attempts to plant rifts between sects is an American project."
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The jugeared jackass again shows his ignorance of history.

Want to solve the humanitarian crisis in the Gaza? Let the government stop stealing the massive aid and let them work on building a nation, not attacking Israel.
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I didn't vote for the treasonous scumbag.
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I voted for the Christian.
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With all due respect, I did not vote for Zero, but I understand your point. The illegals, the dead, the acorn nut jobs, the majority of blacks and the uneducated whites voted for this moron.
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Obama Logic and Pandering 101:
- He will fight in the US against making Muslim women take off their head scarfs.
- He has no comment with respect to those countries who would stone women who refuse to wear those same scarfs.

He did his usual jive act of acting like he was confronting an explosive issue, e.g. Women's rights in Muslim countries. In fact he tiptoed through the issue with the above scarf sophistry and safe talk about ''women's education.'' As usual, I'm sure he fooled a lot of folks and received kudos for breaching such subjects. He's our oh so clever President Jive.
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How quickly can the next election come? I want to see this arrogant, egotistical poseur impeached even before then. He is an outrage.
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In line to vote last November, one woman said excitedly "...we're making history" - everyone else in line remained silent. Oklahoma went 63% Republican. I voted for Palin.
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"The reaction of the audience was very impressive because all the people welcomed his words and gave it huge applause. I think he inspired the whole audience."

and that is all that he was trying to do anyhow... all about his personal power.
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Whoa Nellie. Excuse me, but I voted for the beautiful, patriotic, Christian, conservative, machine gun-shooting governor of Alaska.
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So America dare not have a bible in the classroom,a prayer in school or the workplace but we should all embrace the religion of islam.
Sorry, but no thanks.
Everything I need to know about Islam I learned on 9/11.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Every time Obama gives a speech, his own personal power and --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I didnt vote for this fascist Muslim I voted for the All-American Christian woman who is the governor of Alaska.
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If you go to the Daily Kos, Huffington Post, DU and other libby screed sites, you will see who voted for 0bama and spending generations of money. This site is not the place you'll find any but a few site pests.
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I also wondered where any reaction from Israel was?
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This will ultimately be his downfall. He is sacrificing American power for Obama global prestige.

He is a usurper of our traditions. He knows no history. He is a dangerous narcissist. He will throw America under the bus to feed his insatiable appetite for self-aggrandizement.

He must be humbled politically, domestically, and taught that America is bigger than his empty suit.


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AmPat
06-04-2009, 10:03 PM
Good solid comments. Too bad the truth underlying those comments will be lost on the masses of idiot sheeple. Libs are morons..................Period. Oblah-blah is a charmer and the ultimate Orator In Chief. Our media and rich traitors like George Soros, bolstered by overeducated yet totally ignorant sofisticates in the education system, will ensure his reign of disgrace and our country's downfall.:mad:

thinker
06-04-2009, 10:57 PM
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b238/hawk213/gloom.jpg

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u46/austingmiller/1993_Doom-boxart_large.jpg

There, a little more gloom and doom for those so minded.

Sheesh, you'd think this place was DU circa 2002.

Jfor
06-04-2009, 11:26 PM
There, a little more gloom and doom for those so minded.

Sheesh, you'd think this place was DU circa 2002.

That is uncalled for. We have a POTUS who continuously buddies up with folks who have been enemies, and treats our allies like red headed step children. He is nationalizing businesses left and right, about to get a national health care plan rammed through congress and we are supposed to be all happy about that?

thinker
06-04-2009, 11:32 PM
It's uncalled for to point out that there's absolutely no willingness in the posts I've seen so far to grant him any room, whatsoever? One of my most vivid lessons from this very board as a high schooler was that the President deserves a measure of respect. It's one of the reasons I came back, repeatedly - because this place has/had standards. I was like my friends - I had no problems referring to Mr. Bush in many rather reprehensible ways (now that I look back on it). But after being smacked around by some rather lovely people (gator, hint, this is you) who made it quite clear that if I wanted to stay and have a say around here that there are just some things you don't do - calling the President the Teleprompter of the United States (or something similar that I won't repeat here) is one of 'em. And yes, that is the EXACT thing DU used to do to President Bush. I dare you to say otherwise, because I used to watch that trainwreck in motion just like everyone else.

You may not have voted for him, meg, but he IS your President, and deserves that acknowledgement.

Jfor
06-04-2009, 11:45 PM
TOTUS fits him perfectly. He is unable to do a townhall meeting or introuduce somebody without a teleprompter. I respect the office but I do not respect the man.

thinker
06-04-2009, 11:47 PM
Then I take it you had no problems with Monkeyface? Or Stutter? Or any of the other completely classless things Georgie Boy (yes, this is all to make a point, not what I believe) had heaped on him? Because it's rather sad to see a complete 180 in this site's position if that's the case. Just sayin'.

Jfor
06-04-2009, 11:50 PM
Then I take it you had no problems with Monkeyface? Or Stutter? Or any of the other completely classless things Georgie Boy (yes, this is all to make a point, not what I believe) had heaped on him? Because it's rather sad to see a complete 180 in this site's position if that's the case. Just sayin'.

That is what those folks thought of him. They had no real argument so they resorted to what liberals do best and that is to call him names. Obama on the other hand, calling him a socialist is a nice thing.

thinker
06-04-2009, 11:51 PM
And just to highlight, some of the stuff I'm really taking issue with is on the order of:


I didn't vote for the treasonous scumbag.

Just WOW. Seriously? Turn off Fox, unplug your computer, and live a day in the life without hyperventilating about politics.

Jfor
06-04-2009, 11:53 PM
And just to highlight, some of the stuff I'm really taking issue with is on the order of:



Just WOW. Seriously? Turn off Fox, unplug your computer, and live a day in the life without hyperventilating about politics.



Care to say why you think he is not?

thinker
06-04-2009, 11:54 PM
No real argument? Are you kidding? I'm no Pelosi fan, but if the far future history books decide Mr. Bush got it even half right during his 8 years, I'll wonder how many books got burned. There's too many things to get into right this minute, and that's not even really the point I'm trying to make here. Regardless of argumentation or lack thereof, you do not call ANY President a treasonous scumbag, much less a teleprompter. And calling Obama socialist? Puhleeze. Or did you forget that Bush was the man in charge when everything started going downhill? And that his Administration released the first round of funds for GM and Chevrolet?

Jfor
06-04-2009, 11:56 PM
But my friend you have it all wrong. Congress controls the purse strings and Obama voted for all of it. So for anybody to say it is all Bush's fault has got it completely wrong. If I recall correctly, Bush did not want give any money to the automakers. Right?

Jfor
06-04-2009, 11:57 PM
BTW, not saying I agree even with the initial TARP funds because I sure as hell didn't. I think Bush's foreign policy was right on, it was his domestic policy I took umbrage with.

megimoo
06-05-2009, 12:16 AM
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b238/hawk213/gloom.jpg

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u46/austingmiller/1993_Doom-boxart_large.jpg

There, a little more gloom and doom for those so minded.

Sheesh, you'd think this place was DU circa 2002.
Do you have a 'Little Ray of Sunshine " to share with us ?If this were 'W' you would be among the first to break into screaming about what he was up to !

thinker
06-05-2009, 12:31 AM
Care to say why you think he is not?


Hmm. Let's start with the definition of the word "treason", from Websters:


1 : the betrayal of a trust : treachery
2 : the offense of attempting by overt acts to overthrow the government of the state to which the offender owes allegiance or to kill or personally injure the sovereign or the sovereign's family

1. No one who's insulting him by using such terms would ever stoop (in their minds, at least) to voting for him. Since there never was a trust between the President and people who didn't vote for him (nevermind the fact that plenty of people hated him from the word go, for reasons that are beyond base) it's kind of hard to betray a trust that was never there.

2. In order for Obama to overthrow the government (seeing as how he constitutes effectively 1/3 of it) he'd have to radically alter the fabric of our system of governance. Last I checked, Congress and the SCOTUS is still in operation, so we haven't lost the check and balance system. If you're arguing that he's attempting to socialize America, a few things:

A. If you even attempt to argue that he's changing our wonderful free market capitalist society into a command & control economy, remember first that the original round of Federal money was released, not by Obama, but by the Bush Administration. (Ready to call him a socialist scumbag traitor? Thought not.) Second, in order for Obama to socialize the economy into said command and control structure, companies would have to start being nationalized.

a. Using the term "nationalize" to describe the actions that have been taking in concert between the FDIC, the Treasury, the Federal Reserve, and the Federal government at large is not only incorrect, it's nothing more than a very poor anti-dialogue tactic. To "nationalize" a company, that company would have to be a company that wasn't beholden to shareholders other than the government - which is not the case with any bank, insurance company, or automaker currently receiving taxpayer funds. All of them are still publicly traded, and have their own boards. Yes, people have been replaced at the government's behest, but as a taxpayer, I sure as all hell did not want the same idiots running GM and Chevrolet that have been doing so for the last two decades, while the tanks got fatter and the engines got thirstier. That wasn't just a smart move, it should have happened to every CEO at every company that was forced to either take TARP money or go under.

Or do you defend the right of corporate america to run their companies into the ground at the expense of you and me?

You'd prefer, perhaps, that no one ever got any federal assistance. Sorry, I thought that you were in favor of capitalism - which doesn't work without banks, remember? And no, it wouldn't be any sort of clean, smooth, all the bad banks go away and good new ones magically appear. Circa January of this year, if every bank that made it on the take went down, we'd be in a DE-pression right now, not a recession.

b. Since we've discussed that board changes and stakes in companies are not, by definition, robust enough to be called "nationalization", let's move on to the other reasons why "nationalization" hasn't happened yet.

b.1 Typically, nationalized companies receive clear, direct benefits from the government in nonmonetary terms. Take, for example, the preferential treatment Airbus gets from France to have exclusive contracts on French executive jets, military assets, etc. Or Volkswagon's continued protectionist sentiment from Germany. Contrast that to the fact that when the new car tax credit was announced, it meant the EXACT same to buy a new Toyota as compared to one from the Big 3. If GM or Chevrolet were truly "nationalized", then that credit would have been to buy a Chevy or GM, not just any new car.

b.2 If these companies are "nationalized", then why are the first round of TARP recipients now moving to begin repaying some or all of the funds?

http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv/idUSTRE5526T720090603

c. If you'd like to bring up Fanny and Freddy at this point, don't make me laugh. (Unless, of course, you're willing to paint Reagan and Bush 1 & 2 with the same socialist brush?)

3. If you're arguing he's a socialist on the basis of his planned legislative agenda, let's be clear: Universal Healthcare is as socialist as Social Security. Any tax bill will not only have to make it through Congress, it will be the thing the Democratic Party as a whole will be least united on, because of the electoral ramifications. You cannot judge the man before he acts, and until I see a tax bill that takes 60% of the income of people earning 200,000 a year or more, it's STILL not socialist, unless you're in favor of viewing democracies like Britain, Canada, and France (yes, France, please, go for the low French blow, it's STILL a democracy, mate) as socialist states. The energy bill is so 21st century you'd have a hard time tagging any version of it as "socialist".

Finally, you disagreeing with him doesn't make him a socialist. Me disagreeing with Bush didn't make him a fascist, or a warmonger, or anything else. It just made me disagree with him.

thinker
06-05-2009, 12:33 AM
Do you have a 'Little Ray of Sunshine " to share with us ?It this were 'W' you would be among the first to break into screaming about what he was up to !

Actually, no I wouldn't. I'd probably shake my head a time or three, but anyone who knows me can confirm that I was neither for Mr. Bush nor against him in any great margin. He made mistakes and he did a few things right.

And ffs, turn down your volume. You're way too shrill.

thinker
06-05-2009, 12:37 AM
But my friend you have it all wrong. Congress controls the purse strings and Obama voted for all of it. So for anybody to say it is all Bush's fault has got it completely wrong. If I recall correctly, Bush did not want give any money to the automakers. Right?

First of all, I'm not saying it's all Bush's fault. He had his part to play, certainly. And, factcheck time:

http://www.businessweek.com/autos/autobeat/archives/2008/10/bush_approves_a.html

That was way back in september of 08, long before the election was over. So no, wrong. He said he was against it a time or two, but actions always spoke far louder than words in Mr. Bush's Whitehouse.

By "Obama voted for all of it", clarify. Do you mean the economic stimulus bills, or...? Because the economic situation we find ourselves in did not grow up yesterday, or last month, or even last year. It started long before Obama even became a senator - and no, I'm not talking about the Iraq war.

megimoo
06-05-2009, 12:42 AM
It's uncalled for to point out that there's absolutely no willingness in the posts I've seen so far to grant him any room, whatsoever? One of my most vivid lessons from this very board as a high schooler was that the President deserves a measure of respect. It's one of the reasons I came back, repeatedly - because this place has/had standards. I was like my friends - I had no problems referring to Mr. Bush in many rather reprehensible ways (now that I look back on it). But after being smacked around by some rather lovely people (gator, hint, this is you) who made it quite clear that if I wanted to stay and have a say around here that there are just some things you don't do - calling the President the Teleprompter of the United States (or something similar that I won't repeat here) is one of 'em. And yes, that is the EXACT thing DU used to do to President Bush. I dare you to say otherwise, because I used to watch that trainwreck in motion just like everyone else.

You may not have voted for him, meg, but he IS your President, and deserves that acknowledgement.
He is and I promise you that I will treat him with the same degree of respect and honor that the POTUS deserves to the same degree that you libbers showed 'W' ! That leaves me with lots and lot of room to bitch and moan doesn't it ?

You don't need much in your skull to figure out what Obama's up to don't you think ? Every presidential finding, every directive, every appointment Bush made will be changed .

The war on terror,Gitmo,The Iraqi withdrawal ,ABM system,Support for our allies and finally complete isolation of Israel and kissing up to every Muslim in America and the world .All I need to know about Islam I learned after 911 !

For his next move he start to take apart the Navy Carrier battle groups leave us unable to protect our allies .

His and the ultra Liberal/progressive Congress have been very busy destroying the American economy and leaving our economic future and recovery in very grave doubt.

megimoo
06-05-2009, 12:45 AM
Actually, no I wouldn't. I'd probably shake my head a time or three, but anyone who knows me can confirm that I was neither for Mr. Bush nor against him in any great margin. He made mistakes and he did a few things right.

And ffs, turn down your volume. You're way too shrill.Block your ears if you find me shrill or you could go back to the DUmp if they will have you back !

thinker
06-05-2009, 12:52 AM
He is and I promise you that I will treat him with the same degree of respect and honor that the POTUS deserves to the same degree that you libbers showed 'W' ! That leaves me with lots and lot of room to bitch and moan doesn't it ?

Get one thing, and one thing only, straight. Right now. I AM NOT A LIBERAL, AND THAT PANSY A** BULLCRAP THAT SOMEONE ELSE DID IT, SO IT MUST BE OKAY FOR ME TOO DOES NOT FLY.

I will list out where I stand for you on all the major positions if I have to. But don't try to lump me in with that bunch of craptastic lettuce eaters.


You don't need much in your skull to figure out what Obama's up to don't you think ? Every presidential finding, every directive, every appointment Bush made will be changed .

There's a couple of things to clear up with this. One, didn't Bush change everything Slick Willy ever did? Answer: yes. That's politics, not evil-overthrow-the-government agendas. Two, Bush screwed up plenty. At least some of those changes *will* be good things, whether you can admit that or not. Or are you another one of those wonderful people who think that we can keep driving 15 mpg SUVs and the world will never change?


The war on terror,Gitmo,The Iraqi withdrawal ,ABM system,Support for our allies and finally complete isolation of Israel and kissing up to every Muslim in America and the world .All I need to know about Islam I learned after 911 !

Oh em Gee, Armageddon!1111!!!11eleventyone! Quit acting like the sky is falling - and if you truly believe in a conservative viewpoint, now's the time. Be rational, be reasonable, and show why what he's doing is wrong, without spouting crap like all Islam is evil. The echo chamber is to your left. If freep is still around, there's another one to your far right. Unless CU has warped out of all recognition since I've been gone (God, I hope it hasn't), this is NOT the echo chamber. If you don't like your viewpoints challenged, don't post.


For his next move he start to take apart the Navy Carrier battle groups leave us unable to protect our allies .

Make a thread on that Saturday. We'll discuss, if you're game.


His and the ultra Liberal/progressive Congress have been very busy destroying the American economy and leaving our economic future and recovery in very grave doubt.

Yea, because deregulation of the financial commodities markets had NOTHING to do with that :rolleyes:

thinker
06-05-2009, 12:53 AM
Block your ears if you find me shrill or you could go back to the DUmp if they will have you back !

I'm not, and never have been, a member of the DUmpster. Sara, SLW, and plenty of the original crew can confirm. Next.

Constitutionally Speaking
06-05-2009, 10:21 AM
Yea, because deregulation of the financial commodities markets had NOTHING to do with that :rolleyes:

Except it was the Bush adminstration that TRIED to reign in the excesses in the financial markets but it was thwarted by the Democrats in Congress.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs

BadCat
06-05-2009, 10:54 AM
No real argument? Are you kidding? I'm no Pelosi fan, but if the far future history books decide Mr. Bush got it even half right during his 8 years, I'll wonder how many books got burned. There's too many things to get into right this minute, and that's not even really the point I'm trying to make here. Regardless of argumentation or lack thereof, you do not call ANY President a treasonous scumbag, much less a teleprompter. And calling Obama socialist? Puhleeze. Or did you forget that Bush was the man in charge when everything started going downhill? And that his Administration released the first round of funds for GM and Chevrolet?


Obumble is a treasonous scumbag, and he is a socialist and probably a communist. He can't pee without a teleprompter.

thinker
06-05-2009, 11:17 AM
Except it was the Bush adminstration that TRIED to reign in the excesses in the financial markets but it was thwarted by the Democrats in Congress.


That looks more like the Republicans in Congress than the Administration (to me), but I'll respond when I get back from work tonight in detail.

thinker
06-05-2009, 11:19 AM
Obumble is a treasonous scumbag, and he is a socialist and probably a communist. He can't pee without a teleprompter.

I can see you're in a fine mood this morning, BC. Care to actually go for substance, or is it a straight vitriol diet this morning?

Constitutionally Speaking
06-05-2009, 11:33 AM
That looks more like the Republicans in Congress than the Administration (to me), but I'll respond when I get back from work tonight in detail.


It was both, but I don't see how it matters anyway. The fact of the matter is that de-regulation is NOT what caused the problems.

The regulatory burden increased dramatically under Bush and was at least part of the problem.

The cause of the recession was oil prices. It is what set off the mortgage crisis. The mortgage crisis was made ripe for disaster by regulatory mandates intended to prevent redlining, and artificially low interest rates.

thinker
06-05-2009, 11:36 AM
It was both, but I don't see how it matters anyway. The fact of the matter is that de-regulation is NOT what caused the problems.

The regulatory burden increased dramatically under Bush and was at least part of the problem.

The cause of the recession was oil prices. It is what set off the mortgage crisis. The mortgage crisis was made ripe for disaster by regulatory mandates intended to prevent redlining, and artificially low interest rates.

So, just to clarify, in your view the recession/housing crisis had nothing at all to do with subprime deregulation? Or the complete deregulation of the financial commodities markets? I'm pretty sure being able to triply insure a subprime mortgage (times about a million mortgages) didn't do AIG any favors...

Constitutionally Speaking
06-05-2009, 11:56 AM
So, just to clarify, in your view the recession/housing crisis had nothing at all to do with subprime deregulation? Or the complete deregulation of the financial commodities markets? I'm pretty sure being able to triply insure a subprime mortgage (times about a million mortgages) didn't do AIG any favors...


To clarify, where what was the de-regulation you speak of??

My point is quite simple:

If people paid their mortgages, there is no mortgage crisis.

megimoo
06-05-2009, 12:30 PM
Get one thing, and one thing only, straight. Right now. I AM NOT A LIBERAL, AND THAT PANSY A** BULLCRAP THAT SOMEONE ELSE DID IT, SO IT MUST BE OKAY FOR ME TOO DOES NOT FLY.

I will list out where I stand for you on all the major positions if I have to. But don't try to lump me in with that bunch of craptastic lettuce eaters.



There's a couple of things to clear up with this. One, didn't Bush change everything Slick Willy ever did? Answer: yes. That's politics, not evil-overthrow-the-government agendas. Two, Bush screwed up plenty. At least some of those changes *will* be good things, whether you can admit that or not. Or are you another one of those wonderful people who think that we can keep driving 15 mpg SUVs and the world will never change?



Oh em Gee, Armageddon!1111!!!11eleventyone! Quit acting like the sky is falling - and if you truly believe in a conservative viewpoint, now's the time. Be rational, be reasonable, and show why what he's doing is wrong, without spouting crap like all Islam is evil. The echo chamber is to your left. If freep is still around, there's another one to your far right. Unless CU has warped out of all recognition since I've been gone (God, I hope it hasn't), this is NOT the echo chamber. If you don't like your viewpoints challenged, don't post.



Make a thread on that Saturday. We'll discuss, if you're game.



Yea, because deregulation of the financial commodities markets had NOTHING to do with that :rolleyes:Oh My,My such an emotional outburst from such a quiet critter.If you claim not to be a liberal You'll do as a fair approximation until the real thing comes along !

BadCat
06-05-2009, 12:55 PM
I can see you're in a fine mood this morning, BC. Care to actually go for substance, or is it a straight vitriol diet this morning?

Yes I am in a fine mood today.

It's just that regarding Obumble and the people who voted for him or support him in any way, it will be a straight diet of vitriol until he's out of office.

megimoo
06-05-2009, 01:03 PM
That looks more like the Republicans in Congress than the Administration (to me), but I'll respond when I get back from work tonight in detail.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nU3fNh-PRk&feature=related
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGnZMGDG4k4&feature=related

megimoo
06-05-2009, 01:24 PM
Former Fannie Mae Executives to Pay $31.4 Million (Update5)

Former Fannie Mae Chief Executive Officer Franklin Raines and two deputies agreed to a $31.4 million settlement with the government over allegations they inflated earnings at the largest U.S. mortgage-finance company.

Raines is paying $24.7 million, including a $2 million penalty and the forfeiture of stock options, the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight said in a statement today. Former Chief Financial Officer Timothy Howard will surrender $6.4 million, and Leanne Spencer, who was the Washington-based company's controller, was fined $275,000.

The settlements, short of the $215 million in damages sought by Ofheo, ends more than a year of fighting with the executives over who was responsible for $6.3 billion in misstatements at the government-chartered company. Fannie Mae insurance will pay the $3 million cash portion of the settlements.

Ofheo sued Raines, 59, Howard, 58, and Spencer, 54, in December 2006, claiming they manipulated accounting in order to meet profit and bonus targets.
snip

Fannie Mae climbed 30 cents to $28.55 today in New York Stock Exchange composite trading. Freddie Mac rose 25 cents to $27.06. The two companies own or guarantee more than 40 percent of the $11.5 trillion in U.S. home loans outstanding.

Drag on Resources

snip

Raines will pay a $2 million fine to the federal government; relinquish claims on stock options valued at $15.6 million when they were issued; donate $1.8 million in proceeds from the sale of Fannie Mae stock to charitable programs that help struggling homeowners; and forfeit about $5.3 million in other benefits that Ofheo didn't disclose.

Raines was given stock options in 2000 through 2003 for 932,000 shares at exercise prices ranging from $69.43 to $80.95 a share. After he left, the shares never rose above $72 and now trade at less than $30, signaling any options he relinquished would be worthless.

`Denial of Allegations'

The consent order ``is consistent with my acceptance of accountability as the leader of Fannie Mae and with my strong denial of the allegations made against me,'' Raines said in a separate statement sent by e-mail today. ``This settlement is not an acknowledgement of wrongdoing on my part, because I did not break any laws or rules while leading Fannie Mae. At most, this is an agreement to disagree,'' he said.

Howard's $750,000 fine will be covered by insurance. He will surrender $5.2 million in stock options, donate $200,000 in proceeds from stock sales to charity and forfeit other benefits valued at $240,000, Ofheo said.

Ofheo had sought to impose more than $100 million in civil penalties and recover bonuses and other compensation exceeding $115 million, court documents show.

``The settlement is a capitulation by Ofheo, reflecting that its concocted claims never had an ounce of merit,'' Howard's attorney, Steven Salky of Zuckerman Spaeder, said in a statement.

Spencer also maintains that she acted properly while at Fannie Mae, according to a statement by her lawyer, David Krakoff at Mayer Brown Rowe and Maw LLP in Washington.
snip

Fannie Mae has tumbled 60 percent in New York Stock Exchange trading since Raines was ousted in 2004 as the company wrote down the value of mortgage assets amid a credit market slump. Fannie Mae is still under restrictions imposed by Ofheo after the overstatements under Raines, a Harvard-educated Rhodes Scholar.

The company's stock decline is ``partly attributable to problems and financial mismanagement on Raines's watch and Howard's watch,'' said Bert Ely of Ely & Co., a bank consulting firm in Alexandria, Virginia.

Greater Scrutiny

Fannie Mae and McLean, Virginia-based Freddie Mac were created to boost homeownership. They profit by holding mortgages and mortgage bonds as investments and by charging a fee to guarantee and package loans as securities. They are required to set capital aside to absorb losses on those mortgages.

The companies came under greater regulatory scrutiny after accounting errors began surfacing in 2003. Freddie Mac understated $5 billion of earnings from 2000 until 2002 in order to minimize profit volatility.

Freddie Mac in December 2003 was fined $125 million by Ofheo because of the bogus accounting, and in September 2007 the company said it would pay $50 million to settle a related Securities and Exchange Commission probe.

The misstatements prompted Ofheo to require the companies to set aside more capital than normal. The agency also imposed restrictions on the size of their investments in mortgages and mortgage securities. Ofheo eased the surplus capital requirement last month and relaxed the constraints on their assets last year.

Former Freddie Mac CEO Leland Brendsel agreed in November to pay $16.4 million in penalties for his role in that company's accounting misstatements. Brendsel, who left Freddie Mac in 2003, agreed to pay a $2.5 million penalty, return $10.5 million in compensation and drop a claim to $3.4 million in additional earnings, according to a consent order signed by Ofheo.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aMxLZLZWyFok&refer=us#

megimoo
06-05-2009, 01:27 PM
Media Mum on Barney Frank's Fannie Mae Love Connection


Democratic House Financial Services Committee Chair promoted GSEs while former 'spouse' was Fannie Mae executive. .........."With A Video Of 'Slobbering Barmey '!"

Are journalists playing favorites with some of the key political figures involved with regulatory oversight of U.S. financial markets?

"Are the So Called News reporters In The Bag' For the Liberals ?"

MSNBC’s Chris Matthews launched several vitriolic attacks on the Republican Party on his Sept. 17, 2008, show, suggesting blame for Wall Street problems should be focused in a partisan way. However, he and other media have failed to thoroughly examine the Democratic side of the blame game.

Prominent Democrats ran Fannie Mae, the same government-sponsored enterprise (GSE) that donated campaign cash to top Democrats. And one of Fannie Mae’s main defenders in the House – Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass., a recipient of more than $40,000 in campaign donations from Fannie since 1989 – was once romantically involved with a Fannie Mae executive.

The media coverage of Frank’s coziness with Fannie Mae and his pro-Fannie Mae stances has been lacking. Of the eight appearances Frank made on the three broadcasts networks between Jan. 1, 2008, and Sept. 21, 2008, none of his comments dealt with the potential conflicts of interest. Only six of the appearances dealt with the economy in general and two of those appearances, including an April 6, 2008 appearance on CBS’s “60 Minutes” were about his opposition to a manned mission to Mars.

Frank has argued that family life “should be fair game for campaign discussion,” wrote the Associated Press on Sept. 2. The comment was in reference to GOP vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin and her pregnant daughter. “They’re the ones that made an issue of her family,” the Massachusetts Democrat said to the AP.

The news media have covered the relationship in the past, but there have been no mentions since 2005, according to Nexis and despite the collapse of Fannie Mae. The July 3, 1998, Reliable Source column in The Washington Post reported Frank, who is openly gay, had a relationship with Herb Moses, an executive for the now-government controlled Fannie Mae. The column revealed the two had split up at the time but also said Frank was referring to Moses as his “spouse.” Another Washington Post report said Frank called Moses his “lover” and that the two were “still friends” after the breakup.

Frank was and remains a stalwart defender of Fannie Mae, which is now under FBI investigation along with its sister organization Freddie Mac, American International Group Inc. (NYSE:AIG) and Lehman Brothers (NYSE:LEH) – all recently participants in government bailouts. But Frank has derailed efforts to regulate the institution, as well as denying it posed any financial risk. Frank’s office has been unresponsive to efforts by the Business & Media Institute to comment on these potential conflicts of interest.

lacarnut
06-05-2009, 01:37 PM
let's be clear: Universal Healthcare is as socialist as Social Security. Any tax bill will not only have to make it through Congress, it will be the thing the Democratic Party as a whole will be least united on, because of the electoral ramifications. You cannot judge the man before he acts, and until I see a tax bill that takes 60% of the income of people earning 200,000 a year or more, it's STILL not socialist, unless you're in favor of viewing democracies like Britain, Canada, and France (yes, France, please, go for the low French blow, it's STILL a democracy, mate) as socialist states. The energy bill is so 21st century you'd have a hard time tagging any version of it as "socialist".

Finally, you disagreeing with him doesn't make him a socialist. Me disagreeing with Bush didn't make him a fascist, or a warmonger, or anything else. It just made me disagree with him.

Universal healthcare (single payer) is a socilistic program and so is Social Security. The Social in Social Security kinda gives it away. It is mandantory and you can not opt out of it. A single payer health care system will prevent me from keeping both of my insurance policies. That takes away my choice of going to any doctor or any hospital in the US. That sure as hell is socialism as far as I am concerned. You don't think that Congress is going to give up their 5 start health care do you? A Canadian or Britian type health care system is not conducive to living a long life when the Canadian sytem runs out of money at the end of the year and all the doctors go on vacation in December. In England if you are over 60 years of age you are considered too old to have heart surgery because of the cost.

Why can't I judge Obama before he acts on health care, cap and trade, increased income taxes and many of his other socialistic policies coming down the pike. Once his polcies such as those mentioned above are passed, do you think that any of those agencies and employees will EVER be removed. If you do, the light is not shinning to brightly in that dim bulb of yours. Only a retard would make a statement like that.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, it must be duck. Obama is a socialist thru and thru. He has stated that he is in favor of wealth distribution. Many of his followers believe that the rich have made their wealth off of the backs of the poor and middle class. He has STATED that he intends to remedy that by taxing the crap out of the rich. However, the middle class will get hit with higher taxes because he could take all the wealth away from the rich and still not have enough in revenues to balance the budget. If that is not socialism (wealth distribution), I don''t know what is.

These are the Magic Negro's and the Democrats plans and policies. Whether they are implemented is dependent on the Congress. Looks like a cap and trade will pass along with health care and increased taxes.

megimoo
06-05-2009, 02:30 PM
Former Fannie Mae Executives to Pay $31.4 Million (Update5)

Former Fannie Mae Chief Executive Officer Franklin Raines and two deputies agreed to a $31.4 million settlement with the government over allegations they inflated earnings at the largest U.S. mortgage-finance company.

Raines is paying $24.7 million, including a $2 million penalty and the forfeiture of stock options, the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight said in a statement today. Former Chief Financial Officer Timothy Howard will surrender $6.4 million, and Leanne Spencer, who was the Washington-based company's controller, was fined $275,000.

The settlements, short of the $215 million in damages sought by Ofheo, ends more than a year of fighting with the executives over who was responsible for $6.3 billion in misstatements at the government-chartered company. Fannie Mae insurance will pay the $3 million cash portion of the settlements.

Ofheo sued Raines, 59, Howard, 58, and Spencer, 54, in December 2006, claiming they manipulated accounting in order to meet profit and bonus targets.
snip

Fannie Mae climbed 30 cents to $28.55 today in New York Stock Exchange composite trading. Freddie Mac rose 25 cents to $27.06. The two companies own or guarantee more than 40 percent of the $11.5 trillion in U.S. home loans outstanding.

Drag on Resources

snip

Raines will pay a $2 million fine to the federal government; relinquish claims on stock options valued at $15.6 million when they were issued; donate $1.8 million in proceeds from the sale of Fannie Mae stock to charitable programs that help struggling homeowners; and forfeit about $5.3 million in other benefits that Ofheo didn't disclose.

Raines was given stock options in 2000 through 2003 for 932,000 shares at exercise prices ranging from $69.43 to $80.95 a share. After he left, the shares never rose above $72 and now trade at less than $30, signaling any options he relinquished would be worthless.

`Denial of Allegations'

The consent order ``is consistent with my acceptance of accountability as the leader of Fannie Mae and with my strong denial of the allegations made against me,'' Raines said in a separate statement sent by e-mail today. ``This settlement is not an acknowledgement of wrongdoing on my part, because I did not break any laws or rules while leading Fannie Mae. At most, this is an agreement to disagree,'' he said.

Howard's $750,000 fine will be covered by insurance. He will surrender $5.2 million in stock options, donate $200,000 in proceeds from stock sales to charity and forfeit other benefits valued at $240,000, Ofheo said.

Ofheo had sought to impose more than $100 million in civil penalties and recover bonuses and other compensation exceeding $115 million, court documents show.

``The settlement is a capitulation by Ofheo, reflecting that its concocted claims never had an ounce of merit,'' Howard's attorney, Steven Salky of Zuckerman Spaeder, said in a statement.

Spencer also maintains that she acted properly while at Fannie Mae, according to a statement by her lawyer, David Krakoff at Mayer Brown Rowe and Maw LLP in Washington.
snip

Fannie Mae has tumbled 60 percent in New York Stock Exchange trading since Raines was ousted in 2004 as the company wrote down the value of mortgage assets amid a credit market slump. Fannie Mae is still under restrictions imposed by Ofheo after the overstatements under Raines, a Harvard-educated Rhodes Scholar.

The company's stock decline is ``partly attributable to problems and financial mismanagement on Raines's watch and Howard's watch,'' said Bert Ely of Ely & Co., a bank consulting firm in Alexandria, Virginia.

Greater Scrutiny

Fannie Mae and McLean, Virginia-based Freddie Mac were created to boost homeownership. They profit by holding mortgages and mortgage bonds as investments and by charging a fee to guarantee and package loans as securities. They are required to set capital aside to absorb losses on those mortgages.

The companies came under greater regulatory scrutiny after accounting errors began surfacing in 2003. Freddie Mac understated $5 billion of earnings from 2000 until 2002 in order to minimize profit volatility.

Freddie Mac in December 2003 was fined $125 million by Ofheo because of the bogus accounting, and in September 2007 the company said it would pay $50 million to settle a related Securities and Exchange Commission probe.

The misstatements prompted Ofheo to require the companies to set aside more capital than normal. The agency also imposed restrictions on the size of their investments in mortgages and mortgage securities. Ofheo eased the surplus capital requirement last month and relaxed the constraints on their assets last year.

Former Freddie Mac CEO Leland Brendsel agreed in November to pay $16.4 million in penalties for his role in that company's accounting misstatements. Brendsel, who left Freddie Mac in 2003, agreed to pay a $2.5 million penalty, return $10.5 million in compensation and drop a claim to $3.4 million in additional earnings, according to a consent order signed by Ofheo.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aMxLZLZWyFok&refer=us#

"Former Freddie Mac Executives to Pay at least $38 million."

"And Now For The Other Half of The Liberal?Progressive Congressional Mortage Fraud !"

Freddie Mac to Aid Effort to Recover Millions From Ex-Officers

Freddie Mac, the mortgage reseller recovering from an accounting scandal, will assist federal regulators in their effort to recover millions of dollars in benefits and bonuses paid to two of its former executives, under terms of a settlement made public yesterday by the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight.

The agreement comes nearly two years after Freddie Mac, which buys mortgages from lenders and resells them to investors as securities, paid a $125 million penalty to settle charges related to its accounting, as part of a related settlement with its regulator, known as Ofheo.

"This settlement with the company is a significant step forward and allows us to focus our resources on the cases against former officers," Stephen A. Blumenthal, acting director of Ofheo, said in a statement.

The two executives in question are Leland C. Brendsel, the former chief executive at Freddie Mac, and Vaughn A. Clarke, its former chief financial officer. Both men left Freddie Mac in June 2003, several months into an expanding investigation of the company's accounting.

Regulators began proceedings in December 2003 to force Freddie Mac to treat Mr. Brendsel and Mr. Clarke as if they were fired, which would have made them ineligible for millions of dollars in benefits and bonuses they received when they left the company.

Ofheo is trying to force the executives to return that money.

According to an Ofheo spokeswoman, if Mr. Brendsel loses the case entirely, he could have to pay at least $34 million, and if Mr. Clarke loses, he could have to pay at least $4 million. Some of the money would go to the company and any civil penalties would be paid to the Treasury Department.

Lawyers for Mr. Brendsel and Mr. Clarke did not return phone calls yesterday afternoon. The case against both men is before an administrative law judge and both sides are gathering evidence, according to Ofheo and Freddie Mac.snip
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/13/business/13freddie.html

Lars1701a
06-05-2009, 02:45 PM
Looks like Water closet is back, I can tell when he uses the word Freep.

megimoo
06-05-2009, 03:10 PM
Looks like Water closet is back, I can tell when he uses the word Freep.From CW to WC and now dum,de dum, the Thinker!

megimoo
06-05-2009, 03:18 PM
Looks like Water closet is back, I can tell when he uses the word Freep.To be sure start praising Sarah Paulin as the next POTUS and If he raves and rants its CW !

stsinner
06-05-2009, 03:59 PM
Then I take it you had no problems with Monkeyface? Or Stutter? Or any of the other completely classless things Georgie Boy (yes, this is all to make a point, not what I believe) had heaped on him? Because it's rather sad to see a complete 180 in this site's position if that's the case. Just sayin'.

Hey clown-George Bush is no longer in office, and he can't get reelected, so we have to concentrate on the socialist Muslim that our country is now cursed with.. George Bush may have not been able to construct and deliver an English sentence, but at least he didn't go groveling to our enemies looking like a total pussy, and President Bush kept us safe. The entire world is laughing at us for our white guilt that got the Muslim elected. Muslims have us right where they want us.

Rockntractor
06-05-2009, 04:50 PM
Hey clown-George Bush is no longer in office, and he can't get reelected, so we have to concentrate on the socialist Muslim that our country is now cursed with.. George Bush may have not been able to construct and deliver an English sentence, but at least he didn't go groveling to our enemies looking like a total pussy, and he kept us safe. The entire world is laughing at us for our white guilt that got the Muslim elected. Muslims have us right where they want us.
Oh great! Your in trouble with Milly now.

lacarnut
06-05-2009, 05:27 PM
Or are you another one of those wonderful people who think that we can keep driving 15 mpg SUVs and the world will never change?



I am one of those wonderful people that has a sports car that gets around 18mpg. I plan on driving one and don't feel the least bit guilty about my usage of energy and my carbon footprint for the following reason.

1. Al Gore and Pisslosi use up more fuel in a month than I do in a lifetime.
2. American want choice- Not some half bake politician telling them what kind of car to drive
3. Obama is a habitual liar. He stated during the campaign that he was for all forms of energy. Since getting elected "I will impose so many taxes on the coal industry that they will go out of business". He also stated he was for nuke power. Liar, liar.
4. He appointed a 31 year old car czar who is still wet behind the ears that has never ran a business and does not know squat about cars. This punk is going to be telling GM & C. what to make, how many and where. Not exactly what I call capitalism.
5. Obama and the Democrats are hell bent on pouring money down the toilet by investing in wind and solar power. Natural gas is 5 or 6 times cheaper. Ethanol is also a joke because it uses as much fuel as it produces plus it is a heavy polluter. Did you know that Ethanol mfg's were in violations of fed and state air regulation standards? The EPA along with the mfg. got the gov. to raise the amount of pollution so that they would be in compliance. The first time in the history of the EPA/gov. that standards were raised so that a company could be in compliance.
6. No drilling Anwr, no drilling off the east or west offshore coast.

BTW, I would like to ask you a question. What is so special or not so special about drilling in certain areas of the Gulf of Mexico and not others including the Florida coast? China is getting ready to drill between Cuba and Key West. The stupid politicians in DC and Obama don't give a shit.

6. Like Hillary said "I am going to take some of those profits away from the oil companies". You do not think that smacks of socialism to target one industry?

I don't like Obama; I think he is a sorry piece of shit. Going over to Europe apologizing for America's actions and bowing down to a Muslim prince. I respect the office of the Presidency but I sure as hell do not respect this socialistic tyrant. In other words you have to earn my respect in order to get it.

In conclusion, you can take your environmental opinion about gas guzzling autos and cram it up your ass.

Constitutionally Speaking
06-05-2009, 07:07 PM
From CW to WC and now dum,de dum, the Thinker!


No - Thinker is a long time member well know to us original members. He's just a kid and quite a nice one at that.

He just doesn't have enough real world experience yet. He'll learn if we don't club him to death.

thinker
06-05-2009, 11:03 PM
Oh My,My such an emotional outburst from such a quiet critter.If you claim not to be a liberal You'll do as a fair approximation until the real thing comes along !

If you can't be bothered to read basic english, then I have to give at least one attempt to clarify. And that bullcrap still don't fly.

Attempting to hold me responsible for the failures, f8ckups, and general idiocies of the Democratic party and their syncophants does nothing more than make you a witch-hunter. I'll sit here and and rant with you all day long about judicial activism, sotomayor, and a few other topics you might be suprised about. Or you can do what DU does. Of course, that's your choice. It makes you a rather farking big hypocrit, though.

thinker
06-05-2009, 11:05 PM
Yes I am in a fine mood today.

It's just that regarding Obumble and the people who voted for him or support him in any way, it will be a straight diet of vitriol until he's out of office.

That's your sacred right, BC. Sorry to hear it, but I can understand it, at least.

thinker
06-05-2009, 11:09 PM
(over 3 posts) lots of videos, plenty of news stories ripped whole, no commentary/analysis, complete and total lack of response to the original point regarding fannie and freddie, and way too many italics

Responses will continue in that vein until you actually *say* something.

Gingersnap
06-05-2009, 11:10 PM
Looks like Water closet is back, I can tell when he uses the word Freep.

Knock it off. Thinker has been a CUer for a while now - longer than some here. He's got a Libertarian perspective on some issues. As one myself, I can vouch for him.

Just argue with him on the merits of his opinions. He's certainly not CW or any other returnee under a different name.

You people. :mad:

Shannon
06-05-2009, 11:12 PM
Knock it off. Thinker has been a CUer for a while now - longer than some here. He's got a Libertarian perspective on some issues. As one myself, I can vouch for him.

Just argue with him on the merits of his opinions. He's certainly not CW or any other returnee under a different name.

You people. :mad:

You tell 'em, mom!

megimoo
06-05-2009, 11:13 PM
If you can't be bothered to read basic english, then I have to give at least one attempt to clarify. And that bullcrap still don't fly.

Attempting to hold me responsible for the failures, f8ckups, and general idiocies of the Democratic party and their syncophants does nothing more than make you a witch-hunter. I'll sit here and and rant with you all day long about judicial activism, sotomayor, and a few other topics you might be suprised about. Or you can do what DU does. Of course, that's your choice. It makes you a rather farking big hypocrit, though.Calm down little boy .You make noises like a grownup and confused me into think that you were a real man ?....Gomen Nasai !

Gingersnap
06-05-2009, 11:16 PM
You tell 'em, mom!

It's like a Gift or something. :p

thinker
06-05-2009, 11:26 PM
Universal healthcare (single payer) is a socilistic program and so is Social Security. The Social in Social Security kinda gives it away. It is mandantory and you can not opt out of it. A single payer health care system will prevent me from keeping both of my insurance policies. That takes away my choice of going to any doctor or any hospital in the US. That sure as hell is socialism as far as I am concerned. You don't think that Congress is going to give up their 5 start health care do you? A Canadian or Britian type health care system is not conducive to living a long life when the Canadian sytem runs out of money at the end of the year and all the doctors go on vacation in December. In England if you are over 60 years of age you are considered too old to have heart surgery because of the cost.

First of all, who said anything about a single payer system? That was Hitlery's version. There's been no clarification out of the Obama Administration on whether it will choose to provide legislation promoting a single payer plan, a governmental option to the current healthcare system (another horrible idea, by the way) or a version of cost negotiation, which is one of the forms Mr. Obama promoted during his campaign. So arguing single payer doesn't work (yet).

You willing to give up your Social Security? Are you willing to ask Americans to give up theirs? Just because a program is a national one and is a social program does not make it de facto socialist. You can't opt out of taxes, either - does that make taxation socialist? I'll debate the merits of the different types of healthcare systems beyond that point in a different thread, as I'd like to keep the main thrust of this one on point - Universal Healthcare is not by definition socialist, although there are iterations that could be.


Why can't I judge Obama before he acts on health care, cap and trade, increased income taxes and many of his other socialistic policies coming down the pike.

You can, but you shouldn't. Prejudicing yourself against him (or any other President) just means you've basically stated (to yourself, if no one else) that you are completely unprepared to view the next 4 to 8 years in anything but a negative light - damn, that's pretty sad, man. Assuming the man isn't going to do any good at all is like saying he's the Anti-Christ; and if that's the situation I find myself in, I'm done here. I'm perfectly willing to debate the merits of his actions, and provide honest intellectual agreement on things he messes up, but if you're just looking to scream about it, well, perhaps it's time to hang up the handle again before it ever warms up on the old keyboard.


Once his polcies such as those mentioned above are passed, do you think that any of those agencies and employees will EVER be removed. If you do, the light is not shinning to brightly in that dim bulb of yours. Only a retard would make a statement like that.

The Bush justice department currently looks like swiss cheese...to say nothing of the joint chiefs or the CIA (me shudders @ Leon Panetta - god what a fool). People change every time the man up top does, to a greater or lesser extent. What new Agencies does he intend to create? *Possibly* one to handle healthcare? Other than that, there's not really room for more agencies, in fact, by the creation of a car czar and other such "czars", and the continuation of the czar positions from the Bush administration, Obama's highlighted a move to streamline agencies, not bloat them. (For the moment, we'll see if that holds up - I suspect it may not). I won't even address the last line of your statement.


Many of his followers believe that the rich have made their wealth off of the backs of the poor and middle class. He has STATED that he intends to remedy that by taxing the crap out of the rich.

So wait - Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, and AIG didn't make BILLIONS in profits from 2002 to 2007? And didn't get saved by taxpayer money? Huh, I musta been in a coma for the last few years. Wait, no. That did happen.

FYI, removing the Bush tax cuts on the top 1% of Americans doesn't bother me in the slightest. It doesn't bother me to think that their taxes might go up beyond that, even. My main concern at this time is what he does and how he does it with regards to the AMT.


However, the middle class will get hit with higher taxes because he could take all the wealth away from the rich and still not have enough in revenues to balance the budget. If that is not socialism (wealth distribution), I don''t know what is.

Gee, it must be so easy to win arguments on posting boards when you get to prophesy and say what happens before it actually does. Try this statement after he raises taxes and we're still in the hole, I'll actually listen to it then.


Whether they are implemented is dependent on the Congress. Looks like a cap and trade will pass along with health care and increased taxes.

Cap and trade bothers me (probably not for the same reasons it bothers you, but we likely have some similar problems with it). health care remains to be seen, and you've just seen my issue or lack thereof with the tax situation. NONE OF THAT MAKES HIM SOCIALIST! Keep trying, though. I'm sure you'll get there eventually, if googlefu and prophesying is all that's necessary.

thinker
06-05-2009, 11:31 PM
Calm down little boy .You make noises like a grownup and confused me into think that you were a real man ?....Gomen Nasai !

Yea, I'm a real man - the kind of man that works for a living, provides for his family, takes a class or two, gives a damn about what goes on in the world around him, and tries, against all the pressures to the contrary,to look at the world with something other than a "well, hell, we're screwed" mentality.

It takes nothing to give up. It takes everything to fight for it.

Take your keyboard warrior antics elsewhere. Or prove me wrong and actually try and live up to that postcount under your handle.

Shannon
06-05-2009, 11:40 PM
Yea, I'm a real man - the kind of man that works for a living, provides for his family, takes a class or two, gives a damn about what goes on in the world around him, and tries, against all the pressures to the contrary,to look at the world with something other than a "well, hell, we're screwed" mentality.

It takes nothing to give up. It takes everything to fight for it.

Take your keyboard warrior antics elsewhere. Or prove me wrong and actually try and live up to that postcount under your handle.

Well, we are screwed...but I'm never giving up.

thinker
06-05-2009, 11:51 PM
I am one of those wonderful people that has a sports car that gets around 18mpg. I plan on driving one and don't feel the least bit guilty about my usage of energy and my carbon footprint for the following reason.

There's nothing wrong with that enjoyment. There's a problem with it if you think that it's something the entirety of our 50 million car nation can do en infinitum, if you read my point.


1. Al Gore and Pisslosi use up more fuel in a month than I do in a lifetime.

If Al Gore stood in front of a wind farm as much as he stood in front of a microphone, he could power the city of Los Angeles through the next millenium on sheer hot air. P(ill)osi is one of the snakiest people alive.


2. American want choice- Not some half bake politician telling them what kind of car to drive

damn straight-that's why GM is in bankruptcy right now! No one wants to buy a freaking GMC :p


3. Obama is a habitual liar. He stated during the campaign that he was for all forms of energy.

What politician isn't? Surely you don't think Mr. Bush was "straight with the American people" as he liked to put it. There's a comment you made earlier about light bulbs I might have to direct you to if you do...


He also stated he was for nuke power. Liar, liar.

My father in law works for a private engineering firm in Carolina that's currently designing the first two NEW nuclear power plants in the US in over 50 years. They've received over 500 million dollars in tax breaks, capital, and land deals from the federal government in the last 5 months. The company is Flour Daniel, they're consulting with a Japanese company. Look them up.



4. He appointed a 31 year old car czar who is still wet behind the ears that has never ran a business and does not know squat about cars. This punk is going to be telling GM & C. what to make, how many and where. Not exactly what I call capitalism.

We'll see about that. Too many claims and counterclaims to believe anything until action is taken. I'll wait for the bankruptcy to clear, first.


5. Obama and the Democrats are hell bent on pouring money down the toilet by investing in wind and solar power. Natural gas is 5 or 6 times cheaper.

Solar power is an effective, cost cutting measure for residences that, done with current technology, is a proven tool for users to actually return power to the grid. Wind is an appropriate alternative and *secondary* power source, depending on geographic conditions. We're 100% agreed on ethanol until they come up with a cellulosic variant. Until then, you're only burning food for fuel - not a good tradeoff.


6. No drilling Anwr, no drilling off the east or west offshore coast.

This means?...you didn't make a statement that provided a position here, just a status quo claim.


BTW, I would like to ask you a question. What is so special or not so special about drilling in certain areas of the Gulf of Mexico and not others including the Florida coast?

Hm. I've been down scuba diving off Florida before. I'd hate to see the coral formations suffer...that's right off the top of my head. Environmental preserves are more important than a fuel that could very well be outmoded by the time we start actually producing it, 10 years from now.


China is getting ready to drill between Cuba and Key West. The stupid politicians in DC and Obama don't give a shit.

I wouldn't say that they don't give a shit, but it's hard for them to do something about Cuba leasing out its' own territorial waters, seeing as how we're currently embargoing and sanctioning the living daylights out of them.


6. Like Hillary said "I am going to take some of those profits away from the oil companies". You do not think that smacks of socialism to target one industry?

Hiltery ain't in charge - THANK GOD. Additionally, one thing you should all give Obama credit for is that he seems to have effectively reined her in and gelded the shrill manthing, so far.


I don't like Obama

DAMN. I NEVER WOULD HAVE GUESSED THAT. /endsarcasmofthemonth.


In conclusion, you can take your environmental opinion about gas guzzling autos and cram it up your ass.

You misunderstand. I don't disagree with gas consumption in the automotive industry because of environmental concerns - I disagree with it because it isn't supported by the trend of the general American public in their buying habits - or haven't you noticed the increasing marketshare of foreign makes in this country? Not to mention the fact that it speaks to gigantic complancency on the part of a major sector of the American economy - an unforgiveable failure, in my opinion, from a national pride viewpoint. It's a damn shame when idiots in Korea can build a car that goes further on less gas than the supposed best in the business, and do it for cheaper too.

thinker
06-05-2009, 11:55 PM
Well, we are screwed...but I'm never giving up.


Shannon, you won't give up until there's no more catfights to be had, spirits to drink, or movies to watch ;).

Praise Jesus, we need ya ^_^

lacarnut
06-06-2009, 01:38 AM
First of all, who said anything about a single payer system? That was Hitlery's version. There's been no clarification out of the Obama Administration on whether it will choose to provide legislation promoting a single payer plan, a governmental option to the current healthcare system (another horrible idea, by the way) or a version of cost negotiation, which is one of the forms Mr. Obama promoted during his campaign. So arguing single payer doesn't work (yet).

You willing to give up your Social Security? Are you willing to ask Americans to give up theirs? Just because a program is a national one and is a social program does not make it de facto socialist. You can't opt out of taxes, either - does that make taxation socialist? I'll debate the merits of the different types of healthcare systems beyond that point in a different thread, as I'd like to keep the main thrust of this one on point - Universal Healthcare is not by definition socialist, although there are iterations that could be.



You can, but you shouldn't. Prejudicing yourself against him (or any other President) just means you've basically stated (to yourself, if no one else) that you are completely unprepared to view the next 4 to 8 years in anything but a negative light - damn, that's pretty sad, man. Assuming the man isn't going to do any good at all is like saying he's the Anti-Christ; and if that's the situation I find myself in, I'm done here. I'm perfectly willing to debate the merits of his actions, and provide honest intellectual agreement on things he messes up, but if you're just looking to scream about it, well, perhaps it's time to hang up the handle again before it ever warms up on the old keyboard.



The Bush justice department currently looks like swiss cheese...to say nothing of the joint chiefs or the CIA (me shudders @ Leon Panetta - god what a fool). People change every time the man up top does, to a greater or lesser extent. What new Agencies does he intend to create? *Possibly* one to handle healthcare? Other than that, there's not really room for more agencies, in fact, by the creation of a car czar and other such "czars", and the continuation of the czar positions from the Bush administration, Obama's highlighted a move to streamline agencies, not bloat them. (For the moment, we'll see if that holds up - I suspect it may not). I won't even address the last line of your statement.



So wait - Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, and AIG didn't make BILLIONS in profits from 2002 to 2007? And didn't get saved by taxpayer money? Huh, I musta been in a coma for the last few years. Wait, no. That did happen.

FYI, removing the Bush tax cuts on the top 1% of Americans doesn't bother me in the slightest. It doesn't bother me to think that their taxes might go up beyond that, even. My main concern at this time is what he does and how he does it with regards to the AMT.



Gee, it must be so easy to win arguments on posting boards when you get to prophesy and say what happens before it actually does. Try this statement after he raises taxes and we're still in the hole, I'll actually listen to it then.



Cap and trade bothers me (probably not for the same reasons it bothers you, but we likely have some similar problems with it). health care remains to be seen, and you've just seen my issue or lack thereof with the tax situation. NONE OF THAT MAKES HIM SOCIALIST! Keep trying, though. I'm sure you'll get there eventually, if googlefu and prophesying is all that's necessary.

I can not help it if you are too stupid to realize that Obama and his policies will turn this country upside down politically, economically and socially. We should all trust him. That what the Repubs had to do with the bail out package because they did not read it until after it was passed. Dumb ass Bernanke blew 87 billion dollar by buying bank stocks rather than buying toxic mortgages. The bankers testifying before Congress would not tell them where billions of dollars went. It went to French, German, etc banks. Hey, but let's trust the government.

You just keep dreaming that Obama is not going to screw this country up big time. Guess what. I predict he will so I am planning on my economic future which may include moving out of the country. Like I said health care is a big issue with me. More so than taxes because as a retiree, my income is less than when I was working. Being debt free with enough funds, I can move just about anywhere in the world if the Magic Negro screws things up too bad. Conclusion, I am well prepared but your lack of preparation is pretty sad on your part.

When Hugo Chavez states that Obama is a bigger socialist than him and Castro, it kinda rings a bell. When a government controls and owns companies like GM, C., AIG, etc that is socialism. The car czar who is still wet behind the ears is going to tell the automaker what/how and where to build vehicles. That smack of socialism also. Dreaming that it is not does not make it so. I hate to douse your theory that Obama and the Democrats are not going to drastically change this country for the worse. But hey, keep riding that Obama bandwagon. It will be interesting to see how the Congressional 010 election pan out. I would not shed a tear if every incumbent lost.

You keep bringing Bush into the discussion. Have I said anything about him. Get over your hemroids about him. He certainly did his share of screwing things up. He should have allowed the auto mfg to go into bankruptcy. He did not want that on his watch. Signing the TARP bill was another one of his screw ups.

thinker
06-06-2009, 01:46 AM
Since you pretty much refuse to engage in point by point (which is fine) I'm just going to say this.

1. I bring Bush into it because the original objective of this thread was to call Obama a scumbag, a traitor, and worse. Some, a lot, even, of what he's being called such things for are things that bled over from Bush's era - therefore, in order to paint Obama with that brush, you have to be willing to paint Mr. Bush with it. That's the one, and only, reason I bring him up. I can say with rather alot of certainty that I've never had hemmroids, and he wouldn't be the one to give 'em to me anyways :)

2. Who said I wasn't prepared? I'm not under the impression that everything will be sweetness and light. I just refuse to believe that there is *no* hope. I've got a reasonable amount in the bank for my current situation, I have relatives outside the US, and a marketable set of job skills. Me and mine will be just fine, no matter what goes down. I don't have your advantage of no responsibilities and a 401(k) that's been accumulating for a few decades-that's not my fault.

3. Chavez will do anything he possibly can to interject himself into any situation that gets him publicity.

As for Congress, they can all go screaming into the abyss for signing TARP as it was written.

lacarnut
06-06-2009, 02:17 AM
My father in law works for a private engineering firm in Carolina that's currently designing the first two NEW nuclear power plants in the US in over 50 years. They've received over 500 million dollars in tax breaks, capital, and land deals from the federal government in the last 5 months. The company is Flour Daniel, they're consulting with a Japanese company. Look them up.


Hm. I've been down scuba diving off Florida before. I'd hate to see the coral formations suffer...that's right off the top of my head. Environmental preserves are more important than a fuel that could very well be outmoded by the time we start actually producing it, 10 years from now.


.

Designing and building one are 2 different things. The proposed Nuke plant in CA did not work too well. I suspect the tree huggers will stop the ones in Carolina. In fact I would bet on it but it is too far off in the future.

Have you ever been fishing off the oil platform rigs in the Gulf of Mexico. Even dumb ass McCain went there for the first time and was amazed at all the fish around the rigs. How many of these dip-shit Congress critters have been to a rig. I would suspect very few but many of them have been to the Middle East. BTW, 35% of the seafood we consume comes out of the Gulf of Mexico. Those nasty oil rigs are a pollution disaster waiting to happen. Not. The worst oil spills have come from tankers. BTW, nothing will permanently replace oil because 100's of by products are made from crude. The peanut farmers stated many years ago that we were going to kick our dependence on foreign oil. That did not work out too well. So your prediction that 10 years from now that this fuel will be outmoded shows your ignorance on the subject matter.

thinker
06-06-2009, 02:37 AM
Designing and building one are 2 different things. The proposed Nuke plant in CA did not work too well. I suspect the tree huggers will stop the ones in Carolina. In fact I would bet on it but it is too far off in the future.

Have you ever been fishing off the oil platform rigs in the Gulf of Mexico. Even dumb ass McCain went there for the first time and was amazed at all the fish around the rigs. How many of these dip-shit Congress critters have been to a rig. I would suspect very few but many of them have been to the Middle East. BTW, 35% of the seafood we consume comes out of the Gulf of Mexico. Those nasty oil rigs are a pollution disaster waiting to happen. Not. The worst oil spills have come from tankers. BTW, nothing will permanently replace oil because 100's of by products are made from crude. The peanut farmers stated many years ago that we were going to kick our dependence on foreign oil. That did not work out too well. So your prediction that 10 years from now that this fuel will be outmoded shows your ignorance on the subject matter.

The two plants are in Texas and Wyoming :). And gee, what gets the oil from the rigs to the mainland? Oh ya. TANKERS! I never said that oil will be replaced - it's too useful as a plastics base. There's a difference between using it to extrude materials that are broken down and recycled and torching it, though. I said it would be outmoded as a fuel source, which is different. Think I'm wrong? Go look up Tesla Motors. Hell, if the Volt ever gets off the ground, that alone will provide a giant leap forward.

Jfor
06-06-2009, 02:55 AM
I'll stick to my 400HP Mustang thank you very much. Until you can go farther than 40 miles on a charge electric vehicles are worthless. Not everybody lives within 10 miles of the office or within walking distance of the local Wally World.

thinker
06-06-2009, 03:17 AM
I'll stick to my 400HP Mustang thank you very much. Until you can go farther than 40 miles on a charge electric vehicles are worthless. Not everybody lives within 10 miles of the office or within walking distance of the local Wally World.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Motors

221 miles. And there's a 50k version due out in the next two to three years (It's already working, they just have to meet production costs).

Game, set, match?

Jfor
06-06-2009, 03:20 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Motors

221 miles. And there's a 50k version due out in the next two to three years (It's already working, they just have to meet production costs).

Game, set, match?

Umm... no. A $100000+ car does not meet my definition of affordable. Oh, but cap and trade is gonna make this car seem like bargain soon I guess?

thinker
06-06-2009, 03:26 AM
Umm... no. A $100000+ car does not meet my definition of affordable. Oh, but cap and trade is gonna make this car seem like bargain soon I guess?

Nice sidestep over the 50k. And before you say *that's* too much, it's at a current today cost of .02 cents per mile. That's a dollar every 5000 miles...I spend over 120 USD a month on gas...comes out to 1450 $ a year...times ten years...that's ~15000$ you saved, just by running electric. 35000 dollar car equivalent is so affordable it's laughable.

Jfor
06-06-2009, 03:32 AM
Nice sidestep over the 50k. And before you say *that's* too much, it's at a current today cost of .02 cents per mile. That's a dollar every 5000 miles...I spend over 120 USD a month on gas...comes out to 1450 $ a year...times ten years...that's ~15000$ you saved, just by running electric. 35000 dollar car equivalent is so affordable it's laughable.

I refuse to buy a new car. They are overpriced.Any vehicle that you have to pay a house payment for is not worth having. Like I said before. I will stick with my 400HP Mustang that still pulls 24mpg and runs 11's at the track all day long.

thinker
06-06-2009, 03:36 AM
I refuse to buy a new car. They are overpriced.Any vehicle that you have to pay a house payment for is not worth having. Like I said before. I will stick with my 400HP Mustang that still pulls 24mpg and runs 11's at the track all day long.

The point is so lost here I'm fairly positive that you could send out Force Recon and it'd STILL be gone. sigh.

lacarnut
06-06-2009, 03:38 AM
The two plants are in Texas and Wyoming :). And gee, what gets the oil from the rigs to the mainland? Oh ya. TANKERS! I never said that oil will be replaced - it's too useful as a plastics base. There's a difference between using it to extrude materials that are broken down and recycled and torching it, though. I said it would be outmoded as a fuel source, which is different. Think I'm wrong? Go look up Tesla Motors. Hell, if the Volt ever gets off the ground, that alone will provide a giant leap forward.

You can dream on about the 2 plants ever getting built but it is nice that you have all that Obama magic fairy dust revolving around your head. The tree huggers will stop construction. Like I said, Jimmy Carter stated exactly what you are saying about our dependence on oil. BTW, wind and solar was in the planning stages back then. Of course you are too young to remember but the price of oil sank like a rock and all those good intentions fell by the wayside.

There is a big difference between a 28K electric car and a $100k plus Tesla. Not too many people will be able to afford one after Obama hits the rich with 70% tax rates. GM and C. will go belly up again because they have a young punk that knows nothing about the car business. Cafe standards should also make for death traps also. I will stick with my 3200 pound car rather than a heap of shit like an electric or a lightweight car. The smart car has arrived. Go buy one and save the environment. Five years from now, I doubt that hybrids will account for more than 20%. Still gonna have those gasoline cars to suck up that gooey stuff.

thinker
06-06-2009, 03:42 AM
There is a big difference between a 28K electric car and a $100k plus Tesla. Not too many people will be able to afford one after Obama hits the rich with 70% tax rates.
:rolleyes:

lacarnut
06-06-2009, 03:45 AM
:rolleyes:

Like I said you do not know shit from Chino cause the top rate under Carter was 70%. You might have heard of Ronald Reagan; he dropped the rates to 50%

thinker
06-06-2009, 03:57 AM
I think I got that you talk a lot of trash about two pages ago.

lacarnut
06-06-2009, 04:05 AM
I think I got that you talk a lot of trash about two pages ago.

Just the facts; something you know very little about when it comes to the oil industry. Crude and natural gas from G.O.M. offshore rigs is pumped thru pipelines (not loaded on to tankers) onshore. You realy need to brush up cause you are way behind. Llike I said, save the env. and go buy a smart car. I will stick to my gas guzzler and enjoy knowing that it pisses the tree huggers off.

thinker
06-06-2009, 04:09 AM
Just the facts; something you know very little about when it comes to the oil industry. Crude and natural gas from G.O.M. offshore rigs is pumped thru pipelines (not loaded on to tankers) onshore. You realy need to brush up cause you are way behind. Llike I said, save the env. and go buy a smart car. I will stick to my gas guzzler and enjoy knowing that it pisses the tree huggers off.

Congrats, you've managed to convince yourself that this thread was all about the oil and gas industry, and tangentially the car industry. Whatever floats your boat, dude. /shrug. I'll do some reading on it when i find some spare time around, you're probably right. I could use a refresher course.

And no, sorry, that wasn't even close to "just the facts". It might be how you chose to proffer your viewpoint, and add a few basic facts in there, but I'm fairly positive if you talked to someone IRL like that they'd have either stopped talking a long time ago or hit you, one or the other. Gotta love how macho some people feel at their keyboards.

SarasotaRepub
06-06-2009, 09:41 AM
Ahhh yes...I see you all have now met thinker. :p:D

stsinner
06-06-2009, 10:04 AM
Nice sidestep over the 50k. And before you say *that's* too much, it's at a current today cost of .02 cents per mile. That's a dollar every 5000 miles...I spend over 120 USD a month on gas...comes out to 1450 $ a year...times ten years...that's ~15000$ you saved, just by running electric. 35000 dollar car equivalent is so affordable it's laughable.

Wow, are you delusional!! You can't save money, no matter what you do. Do you think they're going to let you charge these things for free? An electric car will cost big money to charge up, and even if it doesn't the government will find another way to replace the gas tax, because that's what pays for the roadway system and bridges and such.

Just look what happened when all the sissies in California started buying the Prius and the government saw a huge drop in revenue-the tax by the mile came about. They will not let you stop paying the same amount you're paying in gas tax. It won't happen-it can't happen because the government has proven absolutely unwilling to reduce its spending, even if that means just paving over a road that didn't need paving over just to keep people employed and the money flowing in.

Rockntractor
06-06-2009, 10:07 AM
Wow, are you delusional!! You can't save money, no matter what you do. Do you think they're going to let you charge these things for free? An electric car will cost big money to charge up, and even if it doesn't the government will find another way to replace the gas tax, because that's what pays for the roadway system and bridges and such.
I have a flashlight that you can turn a crank to charge. Just sayin.

SarasotaRepub
06-06-2009, 10:12 AM
The VRWC has found the perfect mode of transport for thinker...

http://bp0.blogger.com/_18XkaPdQZu4/SILpLWvzuqI/AAAAAAAAJgo/9tz7B19mtoo/s320/%60%60%60%60%60%60%60%60%60%60%60%60%60%60%60%60%6 0ObamaMObile.gif


:p:D

Rockntractor
06-06-2009, 10:15 AM
Could I interest anyone in a luxerious Tato nano. You get a temporary dot tatoo for your foerhead when you buy one.
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/tatanano.jpg?t=1244297536

Rockntractor
06-06-2009, 10:22 AM
The VRWC has found the perfect mode of transport for thinker...

http://bp0.blogger.com/_18XkaPdQZu4/SILpLWvzuqI/AAAAAAAAJgo/9tz7B19mtoo/s320/%60%60%60%60%60%60%60%60%60%60%60%60%60%60%60%60%6 0ObamaMObile.gif


:p:D
Would that be methane powered?

Rockntractor
06-06-2009, 10:25 AM
I can hear it now. “ Honey stop farting in bed we need it to go to town tomorrow”.

thinker
06-06-2009, 10:57 AM
Wow, are you delusional!! You can't save money, no matter what you do. Do you think they're going to let you charge these things for free? An electric car will cost big money to charge up, and even if it doesn't the government will find another way to replace the gas tax, because that's what pays for the roadway system and bridges and such.

Just look what happened when all the sissies in California started buying the Prius and the government saw a huge drop in revenue-the tax by the mile came about. They will not let you stop paying the same amount you're paying in gas tax. It won't happen-it can't happen because the government has proven absolutely unwilling to reduce its spending, even if that means just paving over a road that didn't need paving over just to keep people employed and the money flowing in.

You''re being deliberately unwilling to acknowledge several basic facts. First, that price per mile is actual today. That's what an owner of a Tesla Roadster actually pays, not some pie in the sky.

You actually raise a halfway good point with the argument that the government won't allow the general public to stop paying the equivalent revenue of the gas tax. However, by jumping to that conclusion, you fail to recognize two very simple other consequences of that context:

1. If that many people are driving electric cars, guess what? There will be economy models that cost less than 50,000 dollars. The government won't start charging true electric cars taxes per mile until they are fully economically competitive with gasoline cars and have a similar market penetration - it would be completely counterproductive to do otherwise, considering all the initiatives that that same government has had over the last 10 to 15 years to have carmakers and research facilities produce alternative fuel cell cars.

2. Even when that starts happen, the feds charge 20.8 cents of tax per gallon of gas. In Tennessee, one of the highest gas tax states in the Union, the state gas tax is 18.4 cents. That's a grand total of 39.2 cents in taxes per gallon....That STILL comes out .177 cents per mile on a Tesla Roadster....(a full charge on a Roadster has been compared to the equivalent of a gallon of gas). Even if you'd prefer to use a different standard and have the government get the EXACT same tax per mile as a current gasoline car, mine gets 30 mpg. Taking the same numbers, that's still 221/30 (total miles divided by average mile per gallon of a standard compact circa 2005) = 7.36x30.2 = 2.225 dollars per charge. Gee, I'd rather pay that than the 28 I paid to fill my car up the other day, thanks.

thinker
06-06-2009, 11:03 AM
The VRWC has found the perfect mode of transport for thinker...

http://bp0.blogger.com/_18XkaPdQZu4/SILpLWvzuqI/AAAAAAAAJgo/9tz7B19mtoo/s320/%60%60%60%60%60%60%60%60%60%60%60%60%60%60%60%60%6 0ObamaMObile.gif


:p:D

No thanks! I gotz my ride.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f33/Kerwyn2112/Star%20Wars/Imperial.gif

thinker
06-06-2009, 11:04 AM
Fusion >> methane! Sorry, I know pigs don't really get that. ;)

BadCat
06-06-2009, 11:23 AM
We do not have the capacity to generate enough electrical power to recharge all those electric cars. Most states can barely handle their current summer demand.

We will not have that capacity with Obumble shitting in the Oval office. No new nuclear plants, no new coal plants. Solar and wind turbines ain't gonna cut it.

Rockntractor
06-06-2009, 11:27 AM
I'm thinking we need a fence on the border to keep our engines from escaping
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/100_2085.jpg?t=1244302032

thinker
06-06-2009, 11:31 AM
We do not have the capacity to generate enough electrical power to recharge all those electric cars. Most states can barely handle their current summer demand.

We will not have that capacity with Obumble shitting in the Oval office. No new nuclear plants, no new coal plants. Solar and wind turbines ain't gonna cut it.

Agreed on that, actually. It's going to take an infrastructure retooling. We'll see if it happens. Again, new nuke plants are being built. We'll see if they get past the groundbreaking. I realize people here doubt it. But we'll see.

lacarnut
06-06-2009, 12:21 PM
2. Even when that starts happen, the feds charge 20.8 cents of tax per gallon of gas. In Tennessee, one of the highest gas tax states in the Union, the state gas tax is 18.4 cents. That's a grand total of 39.2 cents in taxes per gallon....That STILL comes out .177 cents per mile on a Tesla Roadster....(a full charge on a Roadster has been compared to the equivalent of a gallon of gas). Even if you'd prefer to use a different standard and have the government get the EXACT same tax per mile as a current gasoline car, mine gets 30 mpg. Taking the same numbers, that's still 221/30 (total miles divided by average mile per gallon of a standard compact circa 2005) = 7.36x30.2 = 2.225 dollars per charge. Gee, I'd rather pay that than the 28 I paid to fill my car up the other day, thanks.

Like I said, you do not have a clue of what you are talking about. You got your stats ass backward. The fed. tax is 18.4 cents per gallon. Wisconsin is the highest in the country at 32 cents per gallon. BTW, TN state tax rate is 20 cents per gallon which is also the average state tax rate.

I decided to do the math problem for ya. 12k miles per year at 50mph equals 240 gallon used for the year times $4 per gallon equals $960 for the Pirus for the year. Since the Honda is 20% less fuel efficient, the Honda would use 300 gallons for a savings of 60 gal times $4 ===$240 per year. You would have to own the greenie car 54 years before you would break even. No thanks.

Keep on dreaming about electric cars being competitive and fuel efficient. Obama and Arnuld are going to raise gas taxes because they are too stupid to understand that the deficit is mostly not a problem of revenues, it is a problem of spending. All of your green energy prices are going to escalate when cap and trade is paid. So your little computation above is going to be thrown out of wack. Only kooks in mostly blue states wants electric powered cars that can only go 50 to 100 miles on a single charge. The Obimination's car czar is going to force GM & C. to make these greenie cars that the public will not buy. Most of them are butt ugly, too small and costly and will not sell. Plus the fact that a 31 year old dunce is going to be running those companies. They will go bust again. Socialism never works.

.No Env. wacky wacko has ever explained that the mining of the materials that go into making a battery is bad for the env. plus what we are going to do with hundred of millions of dead batteries. Same old, same old with Ethanol. It is a heavy polluter that the greenies ignore like it does not happen. Another one of government socialistic programs gone bad when they pick and choose which industries to support rather than let the private sector determine the marketability of a product. Capitalism opposed to socialism.

lacarnut
06-06-2009, 02:04 PM
. We'll see if it happens. Again, new nuke plants are being built. We'll see if they get past the groundbreaking. I realize people here doubt it. But we'll see.

A new nuke plant will never be built in the state of TX because of the treehuggers and liberals in Austin's state house. Glad to see your FIL is in the planning portion of this project rather than the construction phase which will become dead as a door knob because there is just too much opposition from the wacky wackos in this country.

Rockntractor
06-06-2009, 05:31 PM
I decided to do the math problem for ya. 12k miles per year at 50mph equals 240 gallon used for the year times $4 per gallon equals $960 for the Pirus for the year. Since the Honda is 20% less fuel efficient, the Honda would use 300 gallons for a savings of 60 gal times $4 ===$240 per year. You would have to own the greenie car 54 years before you would break even. No thanks.
the battery pack lasts 10 years max and I have heard it costs 10000.00 to replace.

Rockntractor
06-06-2009, 05:34 PM
I would suggest if you opt for the rickashaw you hire a girl to pull it. You would be looking at the backside of whoever does it an awful lot.

lacarnut
06-06-2009, 06:48 PM
the battery pack lasts 10 years max and I have heard it costs 10000.00 to replace.

The type S Telsa has been put on hold because they can not borrow the $100 million from private funding so they are going to wait to get it up from the US government. So now we not only have to bail out GM and C. but we have another car company that is going to suck more money out of us taxpayers. Oh joy, we get to bail out GE, T. Bone Pickens with his stupid windmills and those in the solar industry. I don't need a bailout but since the Fed. gov. is printing so much money and can afford to send a shit pot full to every business and state with their hands out why not send me a barrel full.

The battery pack on the roadster cost $12,000 and they expect it to last 100k miles. A good looking ride for $130,000 and that's with the $7,000 tax rebate for electric vehicles. Those Hollywood/CA creeps are so cool in their electric car. I wonder if Arnuld has one. What will be funny when there is an electrical malfunction and the vehicle goes dead in the water. Having experience with golf carts, it does not take much for that to happen. I say no thanks to the Telsa. I would much rather have a Ferrari or Porsche that could take me cross country without waiting several hours for a charge job every 300 miles.

Jfor
06-06-2009, 08:05 PM
I say no thanks to the Telsa. I would much rather have a Ferrari or Porsche that could take me cross country without waiting several hours for a charge job every 300 miles.

QFT

AmPat
06-06-2009, 10:35 PM
Then I take it you had no problems with Monkeyface? Or Stutter? Or any of the other completely classless things Georgie Boy (yes, this is all to make a point, not what I believe) had heaped on him? Because it's rather sad to see a complete 180 in this site's position if that's the case. Just sayin'.

Both ( Monkeyface? Or Stutter)are terrible things to call Presidenet Obama. However, Orator In Chief is fair and relatively harmless. George Bush at least had the decency to love the country he was president of. Obama has nothing but distain for our country. It may be false distain due to some genetic liberal disease, but he runs down MY COUNTRY and makes apologies that I feel are designed to pander to our enemies. Our enemies however, are not as stupid as American Liberals and they see it as weakness.

Rockntractor
06-06-2009, 10:40 PM
Both ( Monkeyface? Or Stutter)are terrible things to call Presidenet Obama. However, Orator In Chief is fair and relatively harmless.
President obama. Big P little o.

thinker
06-06-2009, 10:42 PM
Both ( Monkeyface? Or Stutter)are terrible things to call Presidenet Obama. However, Orator In Chief is fair and relatively harmless.

And I have nothing against it. I called Bush Mihr (Mister, drawled) Prezidint all the time. Just a funny way of imitation, and Obama deserves that. He's a windbag, it's what he does.


George Bush at least had the decency to love the country he was president of. Obama has nothing but distain for our country.

Your opinion and you're welcome to it, but please don't try and assert it as fact without at least attempting to provide some backup (and allow for discussion on it)


It may be false distain due to some genetic liberal disease, but he runs down MY COUNTRY and makes apologies that I feel are designed to pander to our enemies. Our enemies however, are not as stupid as American Liberals and they see it as weakness.

To general and nonspecific to address beyond the following- apologizing to Muslim countries for the Bush Administration's stance doesn't translate into "disdain" for America. It translates into "disdain" for the Bush method of doing business. The Bush attitude, seperate and removed from any judgement of what was and was not achieved, did us NO favors. We're not kings of the world, and our country does make mistakes every so often. It's not unpatriotic to apologize for acting like a hopped up schoolyard bully. (This is not an indictment of the entire Bush Foreign Policy, just some of the methods, means, and communications whereby it was carried out).

AmPat
06-06-2009, 10:55 PM
And I have nothing against it. I called Bush Mihr (Mister, drawled) Prezidint all the time. Just a funny way of imitation, and Obama deserves that. He's a windbag, it's what he does.



Your opinion and you're welcome to it, but please don't try and assert it as fact without at least attempting to provide some backup (and allow for discussion on it)



To general and nonspecific to address beyond the following- apologizing to Muslim countries for the Bush Administration's stance doesn't translate into "disdain" for America. It translates into "disdain" for the Bush method of doing business. The Bush attitude, seperate and removed from any judgement of what was and was not achieved, did us NO favors. We're not kings of the world, and our country does make mistakes every so often. It's not unpatriotic to apologize for acting like a hopped up schoolyard bully. (This is not an indictment of the entire Bush Foreign Policy, just some of the methods, means, and communications whereby it was carried out).
Well by all means, let us get specific. What acts/methods/bullying, etc is Obama apologizing?

What "attitude" are we apologizing for? The one where we will kick the grease out of you if you are, harbor, or support terrorism? If so, I have an attitude also; It screams, "I'll kill you if you mess with me." I believe this to be a proper attitude and response. Dialog and making nice just gets your head cut off quicker.

lacarnut
06-06-2009, 11:37 PM
Well by all means, let us get specific. What acts/methods/bullying, etc is Obama apologizing?

What "attitude" are we apologizing for? The one where we will kick the grease out of you if you are, harbor, or support terrorism? If so, I have an attitude also; It screams, "I'll kill you if you mess with me." I believe this to be a proper attitude and response. Dialog and making nice just gets your head cut off quicker.

You are wasting your time talking to someone that has BDS or roids; he is an Obamabot that has his head is so far up his ass he can not see daylight.

The US has sacrificed thousands of lives and billions of dollar to protect these ungrateful assholes. If daddy Bush had not kicked S.H. out of Kuwait, he would have taken Saudi A. and their oil. Did we get any thanks or monetary pay back for this. Hell no. Bush Jr spent his political capital to gain freedom for these ungratefuls also. These countries leaders should be kissing the ground we walk for saving their wimpy ass.

We should be treated like royalty when we go over there instead of the other way around. Obama bowing to a Prince is disgusting. His apology sure as hell is not going to instill confidence in any group that want to oppose the Iranian government. Please don't do it because the US under Obama will do exactly what other Democratic presidents have done. Kennedy pulled the rug out from the freedom fighters at the Bay of Pigs. Clinton pulled the rug out from the Kurds. Obama will throw the freedom fighters under the bus.

Obama is the most pathetic president in my lifetime. In such a short period of time, I did not think that I would ever see a bigger wimp top Jimmy Carter. I was wrong. Looks like the Magic Negro is going to outdo him. Kick Israel in the ass and kiss the muslims. Love our enemies and hate our friends must be the Democratic party's motto. We are screwed folks and God help us if we are attacked again on our home soil.

stsinner
06-06-2009, 11:57 PM
We're not kings of the world, and our country does make mistakes every so often.

We may not be kings of the world, but until Obongo took office we were the greatest country on the planet with the best people.. The fact that we allowed white guilt to force us to elect a Muslim makes me question the current voting American resident's sanity, but we are still basically a decent people..

If we're not king of the world, then how about all the broke-ass third world countries stop coming crying to us for aid.. How about when another tsunami hits the third-world shithole that suffered it doesn't say that American didn't do enough... How about we halt all of our philanthropy around the world tomorrow and let everyone else fend for themselves.. We'd save hundreds of billions of dollars-almost half of what we need to pay for Obongo's spending spree. We are the leadere of the free world, and as long as we're funding other countries to the tune of billions of dollars, I say that we do have a say in how the world runs...

Who the hell came running to our aid when Hurricane Katrina hit? We've got a lot to be proud of and a lot to be cocky about..

Rockntractor
06-06-2009, 11:59 PM
Rome is about to fall!

stsinner
06-07-2009, 12:02 AM
Rome is about to fall!

Unfortunately, I think you're right. China owns our ass!!! If they ever call in their debt, we're screwed in a big way!!

lacarnut
06-07-2009, 12:31 AM
Unfortunately, I think you're right. China owns our ass!!! If they ever call in their debt, we're screwed in a big way!!

That will never happen because their economy depends on us buying their crap. If China quits buying our debt, we boycott their goods and protectism will follow.

What China is worried about is us flooding the market with dollars which will cause inflation and will have the effect of reducing the value of our debt to them. Let's say a dollar is worth a dollar (which it is not) and inflation by the end of 2010 hits 10%. That dollar of our debt that they are holding has depreciated 10% and the dollar 1 1/2 years ago is only worth 90 cents. That also applies to our saving, 401k's, etc.

stsinner
06-07-2009, 01:05 AM
That will never happen because their economy depends on us buying their crap. If China quits buying our debt, we boycott their goods and protectism will follow.

What China is worried about is us flooding the market with dollars which will cause inflation and will have the effect of reducing the value of our debt to them. Let's say a dollar is worth a dollar (which it is not) and inflation by the end of 2010 hits 10%. That dollar of our debt that they are holding has depreciated 10% and the dollar 1 1/2 years ago is only worth 90 cents. That also applies to our saving, 401k's, etc.

Damn good point-we buy so much of their shit that they can't sink our economy, or they go right along with us... Yippee!! Now if we could only solve the problem of our country being run by a Jew hating, America-hating Muslim....

thinker
06-07-2009, 01:32 AM
Well by all means, let us get specific. What acts/methods/bullying, etc is Obama apologizing?

First, what are you quantifying as an apology by him? I asked you to get specific, I'll specify when you do ;)


What "attitude" are we apologizing for?

In a word, the "cowboy" attitude. The attitude that if we do it or think it, it must be right. (example: we think Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction, therefore whatever we do afterwards, even if we're proven wrong, is okay). The idea that if you're a Muslim nation, we are de facto at war with you. The attitude that anyone that isn't with us is automatically against us.


The one where we will kick the grease out of you if you are, harbor, or support terrorism? If so, I have an attitude also; It screams, "I'll kill you if you mess with me." I believe this to be a proper attitude and response. Dialog and making nice just gets your head cut off quicker.

Depending on your definition of "mess with" that's a more or less not unreasonable attitude.

If your definition of "mess with" includes not jumping to when Washington says "give us more troops", or getting pissed off when the supposed leader of the free world uses a term that happens, in the correct historical context, to be synonymous with the racial genocide (i.e. crusade) then it's not so reasonable.

9/11 was plenty of reason to make Afghanistan our own little playground. It was a dumb fucking move to ever put one boot in Iraq.

AmPat
06-07-2009, 01:40 AM
In a word, the "cowboy" attitude. The attitude that if we do it or think it, it must be right. (example: we think Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction, therefore whatever we do afterwards, even if we're proven wrong, is okay).
Have you read one book outside the MSM brain drain? Saddam had WMD. He used it. We uncovered evidence. You and your little minded minions with BDS refuse to accept the FACT that Saddam had WMD. Wake up. Perhaps the Jordanians were just joking when they intercepted the trucks filled with CB headed their way?

The idea that if you're a Muslim nation, we are de facto at war with you. The attitude that anyone that isn't with us is automatically against us.Whose "idea" is this? Who said this? Is this or was this EVER national policy?

lacarnut
06-07-2009, 02:06 AM
. It was a dumb fucking move to ever put one boot in Iraq.

You have it ass backwards again just like you had the Fed. and state gasoline tax. We went into Iraq when we kicked them out of Kuwait. We f. up when we did not finish the job by killing S.H. and getting the hell out. Let the fuckers sink or swim and form their own government after killing him would have been my preference. But no, we had all these bleeding heart liberals, the media and the C. Powell's of the world begging that the killing stop.Killing the SOB's is what war is about. We would not have had to go in a second time if we had done it right the first time. So you got it half ass-ed right for a change.

thinker
06-07-2009, 02:07 AM
Have you read one book outside the MSM brain drain? Saddam had WMD. He used it. We uncovered evidence.

He had WMD at one point. He used most, if not all of them, on Iran.


You and your little minded minions with BDS refuse to accept the FACT that Saddam had WMD.

For the last time, I don't hate Bush and never did. He made a few colossal fuckups, and we'll be paying for them for a very long time - that's IT. Any references I make to Bush are either in that context, or to show people on this board how absolutely freaking ridiculous it is to go from hero worship to witch hunting when many things the man who just finished his term and the man just starting his term are so similar as to be unrecognizably different.


Wake up. Perhaps the Jordanians were just joking when they intercepted the trucks filled with CB headed their way?

Link, please? This is one of my favorites. I don't particularly love ABC, but I do trust Colin Powell a hell of a lot more than anyone else that's had government office in recent memory:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/03/exclusive_curve.html


<snip>Drumheller says he personally redacted all references to Curveball material in an advance draft of the Powell speech.

"We said, 'This is from Curveball. Don't use this,'" Drumheller says. Powell says neither he nor his chief of staff Col. Larry Wilkerson was ever told of any doubts about Curveball.

"In fact, it was the exact opposite," Wilkerson told ABC News. "Never from anyone did we even hear the word 'Curveball,' let alone any expression of doubt in what Secretary Powell was presenting with regard to the biological labs," Wilkerson said.

Drumheller also says he met personally with the then-deputy director of the CIA, John McLaughlin, to raise questions about the reliability of Curveball, well before the Powell speech.

"And John said, 'Oh my, I hope not. You know this is all we have,' and I said, 'This can't be all we have.' I said, 'There must be another, there must be something else.' And he said, 'No, this is really the only tangible thing we have.'" <snip>....<snip>The CIA has since issued an official "burn notice" formally retracting more than 100 intelligence reports based on his information.<snip>

And that article's from '07, well before Obama ever had any influence whatsoever on Central Intelligence.


As for books outside the MSM, I just finished House to House by David Bellavia, a very good book. My next stop is Joker One, by Donovan Campbell. Before that, I was reading portions of The Deregulation of the Banking and Securities Industry by Lawrence Goldberg (it's kind of hard to read the whole thing, I'd probably fall asleep if I did). My first two news sources are drudge and npr. I don't do the whole MSM thing, sorry.

thinker
06-07-2009, 02:11 AM
You have it ass backwards again just like you had the Fed. and state gasoline tax. We went into Iraq when we kicked them out of Kuwait. We f. up when we did not finish the job by killing S.H. and getting the hell out.

That was then, this is now. Woulda shoulda coulda don't cut it - we SHOULD have put the bullet in his brain then, but we didn't. We had no business going back. So no, I don't have it ass backwards, and I'd kindly like you to stop talking to me like you're some superior being - in other words, stuff it, you pompous POS. I'll start playing nice again when you stop trying to verbally backhand me every time your fingertips hit the keyboard.


Let the fuckers sink or swim and form their own government after killing him would have been my preference. But no, we had all these bleeding heart liberals, the media and the C. Powell's of the world begging that the killing stop.

Nice, nevermind that one of the main justifications for the war besides WMD was the chance to build a stable democracy in the Middle East. Don't think the moonbats held a gun to W's head and made him say that during the 03 SotU address.


Killing the SOB's is what war is about. We would not have had to go in a second time if we had done it right the first time. So you got it half ass-ed right for a change.

Yea, f*** all those innocent civilians whose society we just annihilated. You should probably be up for a humanitarian of the year award or something.

lacarnut
06-07-2009, 02:52 AM
That was then, this is now. Woulda shoulda coulda don't cut it - we SHOULD have put the bullet in his brain then, but we didn't. We had no business going back. So no, I don't have it ass backwards, and I'd kindly like you to stop talking to me like you're some superior being - in other words, stuff it, you pompous POS. I'll start playing nice again when you stop trying to verbally backhand me every time your fingertips hit the keyboard.



Nice, nevermind that one of the main justifications for the war besides WMD was the chance to build a stable democracy in the Middle East. Don't think the moonbats held a gun to W's head and made him say that during the 03 SotU address.



Yea, f*** all those innocent civilians whose society we just annihilated. You should probably be up for a humanitarian of the year award or something.

If you weren't so stupid, I would not have to explain it to you in simplistic term. However, if you do not like it, fuck off you 2 bit lawyer.

We were not killing innocent civilians at the end of the war (road to Baghdad). The media was horrified we were killing soldiers. Don't you watch TV? You should be up for the dumbest fuckers of the year award because you do not know shit.

thinker
06-07-2009, 03:03 AM
If you weren't so stupid, I would not have to explain it to you in simplistic term. However, if you do not like it, fuck off you 2 bit lawyer.

We were not killing innocent civilians at the end of the war (road to Baghdad). The media was horrified we were killing soldiers. Don't you watch TV? You should be up for the dumbest fuckers of the year award because you do not know shit.

No shit, we weren't killing innocent civilians. I never said we did, which is one of the reasons I'm starting to question your reading ability, knucklehead. You can either keep on being deliberately obtuse and failing horribly to see what I mean when I post, or you can keep on being an arrogant asshole. When I'm wrong, I admit it - I've already ponied up to you when I realized that I could use some work on the oil and gas industry knowledge. Now either back off a little bit and leave it or stop playing the hitn'run game and let's actually have it out, shall we? I don't give a rat's ass what you think of me, but I'm not going to bother to respond to you if you can't even read and comprehend what I'm saying.

I'm not your average liberal whackjob. In point of fact, I'm not a liberal whackjob at all. Stop trying to use things I haven't said, actions I don't agree with, and problems I didn't cause to bash me. I do have an opinion, and it's not yours. Grow a pair, deal with it, and accept that you're not correct 100% of the time. Until you're willing to admit that there's room in the discussion for more than one P.O.V, there's nothing more to say. Can I say it any more clearly? Please, point out what else you need stamped into your forehead, because I can't see what else I need to tell you for your grand total of two brain cells to figure out that dog don't hunt.

lacarnut
06-07-2009, 03:30 AM
I'm not your average liberal whackjob. In point of fact, I'm not a liberal whackjob at all. Stop trying to use things I haven't said, actions I don't agree with, and problems I didn't cause to bash me. I do have an opinion, and it's not yours. Grow a pair, deal with it, and accept that you're not correct 100% of the time. Until you're willing to admit that there's room in the discussion for more than one P.O.V, there's nothing more to say. Can I say it any more clearly? Please, point out what else you need stamped into your forehead, because I can't see what else I need to tell you for your grand total of two brain cells to figure out that dog don't hunt.

I sure as shooting would not consider you a conservative. Far from it with the comments of support you have given Obama in this thread. I am hopeful that the Repubs. can stop some of his radical plans like socialized health care, nationalizing industries and telling them how much they can pay in salaries, raising income and gasoline taxes sky high, punitive taxes on the oil industry, etc., etc. I don't need but one brain cell to figure that out because he has already advocated it. Seem like you are the one that is living in la la land because those are his stated policies.

Over and above Obama's political philosophy, I think the man is a piece of shit. I come to that conclusion by him hanging out with a racist preacher for 20 years and his association with a terrorist like Bill Ayers and other undesirables in Acorn. He also does not score too many points as a humanitarian. Letting his half brother live in dire poverty is unforgivable when he is quite well off financially. I could not do that; could you?

thinker
06-07-2009, 03:45 AM
I sure as shooting would not consider you a conservative.

That right there says it all. There's this word, called a M-O-D-E-R-A-T-E. I'm not a liebarl, and I'm not a wingnut. Yes, people like me do exist. Strange for you, but true.

Wanna know who my first choice was for President? It wasn't Obama. It wasn't McCain. It was Fred freaking Thompson (I even joined his PAC). Then he proved to be a lazy, do nothing talking head, and lost what traction he had.


Far from it with the comments of support you have given Obama in this thread. I am hopeful that the Repubs. can stop some of his radical plans like socialized health care, nationalizing industries and telling them how much they can pay in salaries, raising income and gasoline taxes sky high, punitive taxes on the oil industry, etc., etc. I don't need but one brain cell to figure that out because he has already advocated it. Seem like you are the one that is living in la la land because those are his stated policies.

If the Rethuglicans can get their act together and start acting like fiscal conservatives and reasonable policymakers, they have a chance to do just that. With Limpburger and co. running the show, they have no ground to stand on. I respected the Republican party, once upon a time.

You can keep saying those are "his stated policies" until you're blue in the face, man. The fact is, he's not calling for "socialized" health care, or "nationalizing" industry. Those are words you're putting in his mouth because you don't like him or his policies; there's a very distinct difference. And why in all that's holy should I take your word for it when there's evidence out there to the contrary, over and above the fact that you have the conversational manners of a 5 year old who's found out what "ass" means? I've been willing to respond to you in kind, and I'll keep doing it. You, and you alone, decide how the dialogue goes here. I used to be a nice kid when it came to posting, and then I realized that the only way to deal with complete jerks like you was to treat them the same or worse until they quit.


Over and above Obama's political philosophy, I think the man is a piece of shit. I come to that conclusion by him hanging out with a racist preacher for 20 years and his association with a terrorist like Bill Ayers and other undesirables in Acorn.

See, I have two options here. I can point out how you and everyone else that doesn't like Bush being brought up let a giant raft of questionable things slide, and then you can whine all over again about how bringing up Bush just ain't fair. The main problem here is that the Republican party doesn't have a leader right now to show you that comparison without your gorge rising, your vision going red, and any and all cognitive ability going down the drain with it. :rolleyes:

The other option, and the one I'm going to take out of sheer desperation because logic as a form of discussion seems purely lost on you, is that all politicians are sacks of shit to varying degrees. Show me ONE good politician, I dare you. Hasn't existed since (kind of) Reagan. The last President in the history of this country that actually deserved the post and was a decent human being, that I would have voted for, was Eisenhower. I'd say Ford, but he didn't really get elected. As a general rule, liberal Presidents tend to blow up in this country's face. I'm aware of that. I just refuse to believe that it's all one sick repeating slideshow. Call me naive, call me ignorant, but I'm just not the pessimistic old fart that you are.


He also does not score too many points as a humanitarian. Letting his half brother live in dire poverty is unforgivable when he is quite well off financially. I could not do that; could you?

Face it. Jesus Christ could come back to Earth tomorrow and tell you Obama wasn't that bad and you'd STILL hate his guts, along with half this board.

thinker
06-07-2009, 03:49 AM
And one last thing. The next time you try to say I've got it ass backwards, you'd better do it while responding to the twenty or so points you've flat out ignored because you're either incapable of or unwilling to address them. Otherwise I'm just going to laugh in your face, because every time you say something that I knock down, you apparently think it's okay to act like nothing ever got said when it's up there for everyone to see.

Zafod
06-08-2009, 02:27 AM
*yawn*

Good grief this thread is fucking retarded.

So we must give OBAMALAMDINGDONG some credit?
Ummm ok here goes...... he reads a teleprompter well.... not good enough? hmmmm

How about giving him props for bagging a actual amazon for a wife? I mean come on here folks....she looks like she could tear him in half.

Was that what you were looking for?

Zafod
06-08-2009, 02:29 AM
and now to throw some rocks on the track.....

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb89/SomeoneYouKnew/misc/pirates.jpg

GOD DAMM RIGHT!!

Zafod
06-08-2009, 02:30 AM
Now this thread is worth it to read.....

AmPat
06-10-2009, 12:05 AM
<snip>Drumheller says he personally redacted all references to Curveball material in an advance draft of the Powell speech.

"We said, 'This is from Curveball. Don't use this,'" Drumheller says. Powell says neither he nor his chief of staff Col. Larry Wilkerson was ever told of any doubts about Curveball.

"In fact, it was the exact opposite," Wilkerson told ABC News. "Never from anyone did we even hear the word 'Curveball,' let alone any expression of doubt in what Secretary Powell was presenting with regard to the biological labs," Wilkerson said.

Drumheller also says he met personally with the then-deputy director of the CIA, John McLaughlin, to raise questions about the reliability of Curveball, well before the Powell speech.

"And John said, 'Oh my, I hope not. You know this is all we have,' and I said, 'This can't be all we have.' I said, 'There must be another, there must be something else.' And he said, 'No, this is really the only tangible thing we have.'" <snip>....<snip>The CIA has since issued an official "burn notice" formally retracting more than 100 intelligence reports based on his information.<snip>
Tyler (Drumheller) is a known liar and DUMBOcRAT lackey, I know, I know, I'm being redundant.
Read up on the man who would be a traitor.:rolleyes:

thinker
06-10-2009, 12:11 AM
Drumheller's account notwithstanding, Curveball was still the basis for the intel reports the Bush Administration used. Those facts aren't in dispute by anyone, only who knew Curveball was bogus and when.

Zafod
06-11-2009, 01:27 AM
needs more wenches.....

http://vnmedia.ign.com/conanvault.ign.com/images/top10/wenches.jpg

Zathras
06-11-2009, 01:58 AM
Sounds like it's time for a video or 2.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QyYaPWasos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46ODjgd22vY

Zafod
06-11-2009, 02:16 AM
hahahahahahahaha THOSE WERE FUCKING AWSOME!!!

AmPat
06-11-2009, 02:28 AM
Drumheller's account notwithstanding, Curveball was still the basis for the intel reports the Bush Administration used. Those facts aren't in dispute by anyone, only who knew Curveball was bogus and when.

Says the oddly phrased "conventional wisdom." :rolleyes: If one were to believe the highly charged media lies and politically motivated spin and outright lies from the DIMocRATS, you would think that. The documents that were used in the NIE, which was a summary of the whole, was in the 10,000 range. This does not account for the HUMINT and ELINT intel.

Strangely, the only quoted source the liberal establishment cares to bring up is "Curveball." That could not possibly be anything but BDS. Anything to get Bush was in play and we both know it. You appear to be a reader. Read SHADOW WARRIORS by Kenneth R Timmerman. If you are fair, you will have a changed and perhaps accurate outlook on the world of the DIMocRAT/liberal mindset. Liberals will always sacrifice quaint little concepts like patriotism, principles, morals, pride in country, etc. to further their agenda.

The book is well sourced with footnotes and exhibits that should shame anybody associated with DIM/liberalism. Of course it won't because DIM/LIBS have no shame regarding the pursuit of power. The ends justify the means.

thinker
06-11-2009, 10:38 AM
I'll look it up, thanks :)