PDA

View Full Version : Should I feel bad about the GI Bill?



marinejcksn
06-09-2009, 06:27 PM
I view my self in the vein of more of a Laissez-faire Libertarian than Conservative these days and I'm faced with a dilemma so I'd like to hear some thoughts from the board:

I'm getting out of the Marine Corps at the end of the month. I've applied to and been accepted at Penn State (which I'm really excited about :D), where I plan on getting my Degree in Economics. That being said, the only way I'll be able to afford to go to College is if I take advantage of the GI Bill benefits I'm eligible for from my Military Service.

Where I'm conflicted is; should I feel bad about taking this Government money? I look at it as something I was promised when I enlisted, but I dunno. It's still taxpayer cash that's going to put me through school and I have HUGE issues with the way our country currently hemorrhages the money that's basically raped from all the people who actually PAY taxes and honestly I feel kind of guilty being in line for my own share of "free" Government dough. :o

What do you think about it?

Constitutionally Speaking
06-09-2009, 06:34 PM
The money you will receive via the GI bill is NOT free money.

It is part of the compensation package for the job you did. - No different than your paycheck.


There is absolutely ZERO reason to feel bad about it.

Quite frankly, you deserve more.

marinejcksn
06-09-2009, 06:59 PM
Quite frankly, you deserve more.

Actually, the Post 9/11 GI Bill is pretty generous in that now I'll be able to get a full 4 year tuition, yearly stipends for books and supplies and the Basic Allowance for Housing at the E-5 rate during my schooling to pay for room and board. Plus, after August 2009 servicemembers can transfer their GI bill to their spouse or kids, which is great for families.

Still feels like taking a handout though. I don't know why. :o

thinker
06-09-2009, 07:08 PM
The money you will receive via the GI bill is NOT free money.

It is part of the compensation package for the job you did. - No different than your paycheck.


There is absolutely ZERO reason to feel bad about it.

Quite frankly, you deserve more.

Absolutely, 100%, agree.

Think of it this way, jackson - the GI bill in force during WWII paid for itself many times over by creating a society where college education was not the exception but the rule - without it, it's fair to say that the era of prosperity we've enjoyed right up till now may never have happened, or at least to the scale it's happened.

You earned it, man.

lacarnut
06-09-2009, 07:15 PM
I used my 3 years of the GI bill for college and bought my first house on a VA loan. Only spent 2 years in the Army. Do I feel guilty, hell no and neither should you. Like C.S. stated, it is a compensation package. I would consider it no different than an re-enlistment bonus. Same principal.

Hey, you did our country a great service and you are entitled to every penny that the US government offers. Look at it this way. Our wonderful politicians get gold star pensions and raises each year. Does not matter that the economy is in the dumps; they get their raises regardless.

Odysseus
06-09-2009, 08:13 PM
Actually, the Post 9/11 GI Bill is pretty generous in that now I'll be able to get a full 4 year tuition, yearly stipends for books and supplies and the Basic Allowance for Housing at the E-5 rate during my schooling to pay for room and board. Plus, after August 2009 servicemembers can transfer their GI bill to their spouse or kids, which is great for families.

Still feels like taking a handout though. I don't know why. :o

First, congratulations! Penn is a great school and you'll do well there.

The reason that you're feeling odd about the GI Bill is because the money is coming to you from the government, so you're associating it with other government programs that are handouts. The difference is that you earned the GI Bill every every time you pulled on your IBA and kevlar and went outside the wire without knowing if you'd make it back. You've put your life on the line for your country, and in return for that, and because of the character that you've demonstrated over and over as a Marine, a leader and a patriot, your country is giving you back something to make up for the time that you've lost in her service. The kids around you at Penn, the ones who will be defaulting on student loans, blowing through scholarships for being the right color or gender, or who are spending their parents' money without lifting a finger beyond their classwork, those are the ones getting handouts, and they will resent you for having earned what they are being given. Lose that guilt now, before they try to play mind games with you.

If you feel that uncomfortable about taking the GI Bill, join ROTC and go back to the Corps with a commission, so that you can use your new skills and education in service to your country again, but whatever you do, don't think for a moment that you haven't earned every cent of that GI Bill. Stand tall, Marine. You've earned this.

marinejcksn
06-09-2009, 09:06 PM
Thank you for the kind words of encouragement Sir! I do feel that it's a great opportunity I've been given; my parents didn't go to college because their families couldn't afford to send them, so I'm really grateful for getting the chance to go. (Plus, Penn State has a great school club for Libertarians I'm all about joining along with the Vets organization:D).

Hopefully I'll knock out 4 years, get my economics degree and go work for either the Cato Institute or The Heritage Foundation. :cool:

MrsSmith
06-09-2009, 10:08 PM
Um, this may be a dumb question, but isn't saving toward the GI Bill an actual payroll deduction? Maybe I'm wrong, but I could swear my kid had to sign up for it and save a portion of his pay while he served in order to qualify for the GI Bill benefits. :confused:

thinker
06-09-2009, 10:17 PM
Yes, you do have to pay into it. Good point, MrsS. :)

wiegenlied
06-09-2009, 10:57 PM
Congratulations, marine. Make the most of four years in your studies.

If you do well enough both in service and in academics, there will be plenty of departmental scholarship offered directly from the school. There will be plenty of part-time job opportunities as well, but be selective in choosing them.

If you are really into economics and do quite well, at the 4th year there will be an honors seminar waiting for you! Just make sure to plan the schedule well from the start, take the right courses, ask the right people, and participate in the right activities.

Btw, economics is all about mathematics! :eek: :D

PoliCon
06-09-2009, 11:09 PM
The money you will receive via the GI bill is NOT free money.

It is part of the compensation package for the job you did. - No different than your paycheck.


There is absolutely ZERO reason to feel bad about it.

Quite frankly, you deserve more.

AGREED

Shannon
06-09-2009, 11:16 PM
I used my 3 years of the GI bill for college and bought my first house on a VA loan. Only spent 2 years in the Army. Do I feel guilty, hell no and neither should you. Like C.S. stated, it is a compensation package. I would consider it no different than an re-enlistment bonus. Same principal.

Hey, you did our country a great service and you are entitled to every penny that the US government offers. Look at it this way. Our wonderful politicians get gold star pensions and raises each year. Does not matter that the economy is in the dumps; they get their raises regardless.

Only two years in the Army and you get that much?

AmPat
06-09-2009, 11:50 PM
I view my self in the vein of more of a Laissez-faire Libertarian than Conservative these days and I'm faced with a dilemma so I'd like to hear some thoughts from the board:

I'm getting out of the Marine Corps at the end of the month. I've applied to and been accepted at Penn State (which I'm really excited about :D), where I plan on getting my Degree in Economics. That being said, the only way I'll be able to afford to go to College is if I take advantage of the GI Bill benefits I'm eligible for from my Military Service.

Where I'm conflicted is; should I feel bad about taking this Government money? I look at it as something I was promised when I enlisted, but I dunno. It's still taxpayer cash that's going to put me through school and I have HUGE issues with the way our country currently hemorrhages the money that's basically raped from all the people who actually PAY taxes and honestly I feel kind of guilty being in line for my own share of "free" Government dough. :o

What do you think about it?

1St off Marine, You paid in to this benefit in money, time, and service. This is not a hand out, it is a benefit.
It is an investment. you are likely to pay back 100 fold the cost to the taxpayer than what you withdrew. You will do this through being a productive citizen and taxpayer. Then, you can return to the workforce as a higher income waqe earner so the DIMocRATS can tax you at a higher rate.:cool:

CueSi
06-10-2009, 02:31 AM
What everyone else said. . .YOUR cash, d00d you earned it - - get your learn on.

~QC

djones520
06-10-2009, 02:51 AM
Actually, the Post 9/11 GI Bill is pretty generous in that now I'll be able to get a full 4 year tuition, yearly stipends for books and supplies and the Basic Allowance for Housing at the E-5 rate during my schooling to pay for room and board. Plus, after August 2009 servicemembers can transfer their GI bill to their spouse or kids, which is great for families.

Still feels like taking a handout though. I don't know why. :o

Don't forget you paid for this as well. They charged you $1200 ($1800 if you took the kicker like I did). Granted, your getting about a 3000% return on it, but you put money into it, and you put your life on the line for it. Do not regret taking it.

I do not plan on using mine. I'll be transfering it to my son. The AF is paying 100% of my college tuition right now, so I don't need to tap the GI bill.

lacarnut
06-10-2009, 04:13 AM
Only two years in the Army and you get that much?

Yep, I volunteered for the draft (Enlisted Reserve) between the Korean and V.N. war for a 2 year hitch.

linda22003
06-10-2009, 08:19 AM
Marine Jackson: Take the GI Bill and don't look back, as others have said. Having grown up in a Penn State family, I know you'll enjoy Happy Valley!

RobJohnson
06-10-2009, 08:34 AM
The money you will receive via the GI bill is NOT free money.

It is part of the compensation package for the job you did. - No different than your paycheck.


There is absolutely ZERO reason to feel bad about it.

Quite frankly, you deserve more.

I agree.

MJ you put your ass on the line for us, take advantage of the education benefits and get that degree!

gator
06-10-2009, 08:59 AM
The GI Bill paid for my BS in Engineering and even helped out my first year in Grad School. I looked at it as deferred compensation.

Because of the education I was able to spend most of my working years in the top 5% of wage earners in the US. I paid hundreds of thousands of dollars in friggin Federal Income tax over the years so the government came out way ahead in the deal.

Regardless of where you top out in wage earners the government will also come out ahead with you. There is no guilt associated with using the GI Bill.

When I got out of the Army in 1970 us Vietnam Vets mostly hung together and sat around the Student Union exaggerating our military exploits, checking out the cute co-eds and pretty much bad mounting the pussies that didnít serve. I am sure you Iraqi/Afghanistan veterans will be doing the same thing. You have earned the right to do so.

linda22003
06-10-2009, 09:08 AM
and pretty much bad mounting the pussies that didnít serve.

Your Freudian slip is showing. ;)

Shannon
06-10-2009, 09:16 AM
When I got out of the Army in 1970 us Vietnam Vets mostly hung together and sat around the Student Union exaggerating our military exploits, checking out the cute co-eds and pretty much bad mounting the pussies that didnít serve. I am sure you Iraqi/Afghanistan veterans will be doing the same thing. You have earned the right to do so.

And to think... all my dad did was come home to his wife.:rolleyes:

Odysseus
06-10-2009, 12:31 PM
Only two years in the Army and you get that much?
Two years can be a loooooooooong time...

And to think... all my dad did was come home to his wife.:rolleyes:
That's what I did, and it's a much better feeling than sitting around puffing yourself up at the expense of others. The guys who will give MJ a hard time for being a vet are going to be the privileged ones who see themselves as too valuable to risk in anything so declasse as service to their country, and they will deserve his contempt, but the kids who respect and admire his service and don't denigrate it don't warrant abuse or derision. I wonder how many of the kids that Gator and his pals ridiculed and insulted were sitting on the fence about the war before Gator began mouthing off at them and turned them into antiwar activists...?

PoliCon
06-10-2009, 12:50 PM
Your Freudian slip is showing. ;)
So . . . gator is a butt pirate . . . . interesting.

noonwitch
06-10-2009, 01:18 PM
You served your country, the least we can do is pay for your education.

Not only did you risk your life in service to your nation, you did so in a war that was unpopular with segments of the population who are inclined to call you names and accuse you of committing atrocities. There's probably Pell Grant money going to undeserving youth that should be taken from them and given to you.

Japandroid
06-10-2009, 01:19 PM
I'm afraid this kind of attitude towards GI Bill money will impede your ability to really get the most out of an Economics degree.

gator
06-10-2009, 02:19 PM
Your Freudian slip is showing. ;)

Sorry Sweetie but I majored in Engineering, not typing.

gator
06-10-2009, 02:34 PM
I wonder how many of the kids that Gator and his pals ridiculed and insulted were sitting on the fence about the war before Gator began mouthing off at them and turned them into antiwar activists...?

You don't know a goddamn thing what is was like for a Vietnam Veteran in college in 1970 so just go on about doing your boring Operations job and leave the discussion about veterans to those that actually know what they are talking about. You also know little or nothing about the division between those who did serve in those days and those that didn't so your opinion is noted and then thrown in the trash pile where it belongs

You job is boring isn't it? It must be for you to have so much time to post on the Internet during duty hours. None of the active duty personnel that I know nowadays spends their duty time posting on the Internet.

You know something kid? It is always amazing to see the comments you make. You are so goddamned pissed at me for exposing your lack of loyalty to the US in favor of a foreign country that you felt it was necessary to piss on MarineJackson's thread about the GI Bill. You don't give a shit about anybody, do you?

PoliCon
06-10-2009, 02:36 PM
notice how anyone who says anything gator doesn't like is a "kid." :rolleyes:

noonwitch
06-10-2009, 02:49 PM
You don't know a goddamn thing what is was like for a Vietnam Veteran in college in 1970 so just go on about doing your boring Operations job and leave the discussion about veterans to those that actually know what they are talking about. You also know little or nothing about the division between those who did serve in those days and those that didn't so your opinion is noted and then thrown in the trash pile where it belongs

You job is boring isn't it? It must be for you to have so much time to post on the Internet during duty hours. None of the active duty personnel that I know nowadays spends their duty time posting on the Internet.

You know something kid? It is always amazing to see the comments you make. You are so goddamned pissed at me for exposing your lack of loyalty to the US in favor of a foreign country that you felt it was necessary to piss on MarineJackson's thread about the GI Bill. You don't give a shit about anybody, do you?



I was a little kid during the Vietnam War, but my dad is a vet who served on border patrol just after the Korean War, and missed a tour in Vietnam by about 5 years. He hated the anti-war protestors, even though he didn't exactly agree with the whole premise behind the war. He told us "never be rude to military servicemen, they don't make the decisions about war and peace".


I went to college in the 80s, and a lot of the profs and professional grad students were still fighting against the Vietnam War. I would guess that as most of those people were in their 40s in the early 80s, they were just getting started when you were in college. It couldn't have been easy as a student who was a Nam vet to have dealt with them.

gator
06-10-2009, 04:46 PM
I was a little kid during the Vietnam War, but my dad is a vet who served on border patrol just after the Korean War, and missed a tour in Vietnam by about 5 years. He hated the anti-war protestors, even though he didn't exactly agree with the whole premise behind the war. He told us "never be rude to military servicemen, they don't make the decisions about war and peace".


I went to college in the 80s, and a lot of the profs and professional grad students were still fighting against the Vietnam War. I would guess that as most of those people were in their 40s in the early 80s, they were just getting started when you were in college. It couldn't have been easy as a student who was a Nam vet to have dealt with them.

By the time I got to college I was pretty well numb to the war as I think most Vietnam Veterans were.

We veterans mostly hung together and looked after one another but we actually didn't discuss the war all that much. Most of us were Conservatives so we pretty much didn't have any use for the Lefties but I went to a conservative college (UCF) so that wasn't much of an issue. We were much more concerned about getting an education and getting on with our lives and starting our families than we were concerned with politics.

I am sure Marinejackson will have a similar experience in college. The Iraqi/Afgan vets will gravitate together and among themselves and they will tell war stories but it will not be a focus of their lives.

The real people that I remember bad mouthing were the goddamn Navy nuclear school instructors. Back then there was a Navy nuke school in Orlando. The instructors were like the smartest people in the world. They all had degrees in Physics and Nuclear Engineering from big name schools like MIT and Cal Poly.

They were all nerds or homosexuals so they couldn’t get women so the only thing they could think to do in their spare time was to go to grad school at night and get their umpteenth MS degree. They seem to love Environmental Engineering for some friggin reason. I was getting my degree MS in Environmental Engineering at the time.

The thing that made me mad was they showed up at night at the grad classes and messed up the class curve. All us poor dumbass redneck boys, who were trying to get a degree so we could support our families, couldn’t hardly compete with those assholes. They would ace every test and do the math problems (advanced calculus) in their heads and us poor Florida guys had to work hard just to pass.

I hate Navy Nukes.

MrsSmith
06-10-2009, 05:50 PM
Only two years in the Army and you get that much?

My kid did 2 years in the Army, but, as has been confirmed, he paid into the GI Bill in order to qualify for it. He got a Bachelor's degree with it, but his checks were just enough to cover tuition and books. He worked either part or full-time all through college.

The other downside was the timing of the checks...he had to pay for his first semester, and got the refund just about it time to pay for the second...so was out all that money for the 4 years it took to catch up. His first semester was so tough, we ended up buying him a bed and having it shipped to him...it was his only furniture for months.

Odysseus
06-10-2009, 09:26 PM
I'm afraid this kind of attitude towards GI Bill money will impede your ability to really get the most out of an Economics degree.
Au contrair. Analyzing first principles is always a good way to start any endeavor. Leftists try to equate all government spending, no matter how good or bad, in order to prevent criticism of wasteful or destructive programs by lumping them together with legitimate functions of government. It's the old, "How can you support the GI Bill and not support college tuition for unwed crack addicted illegal immigrants?" ploy. It's a phony argument, but because it's so pervasive, even those who have earned government money find themselves having to justify it in their own minds. By questioning his premises, MJ is shedding some baggage and will have a better understanding of economics than he would have if he'd simply accepted this premise.

You don't know a goddamn thing what is was like for a Vietnam Veteran in college in 1970 so just go on about doing your boring Operations job and leave the discussion about veterans to those that actually know what they are talking about. You also know little or nothing about the division between those who did serve in those days and those that didn't so your opinion is noted and then thrown in the trash pile where it belongs
I know the vets who were still in the system when I came in, and who are still serving. I know none who are as consumed by rage as you are.

You job is boring isn't it? It must be for you to have so much time to post on the Internet during duty hours. None of the active duty personnel that I know nowadays spends their duty time posting on the Internet.
You overestimate the amount of time that it takes to make you look foolish. But, I suppose that I can expect another of your threats at reprisal through my chain of command again.

You know something kid? It is always amazing to see the comments you make. You are so goddamned pissed at me for exposing your lack of loyalty to the US in favor of a foreign country that you felt it was necessary to piss on MarineJackson's thread about the GI Bill. You don't give a shit about anybody, do you?
If you hadn't pointed out how miserably you treated other students, I wouldn't have commented on it, and if you treated the students at your college with the same charming decorum that you've displayed here, I have no doubt that you added to the ranks of the antiwar left playing to their worst stereotype of the crazed, hateful Vietnam vet. Somebody had to point out that your example wasn't a good one for a vet to follow at school. If MarineJackson took offense, I'll apologize to him, but not to you.

notice how anyone who says anything gator doesn't like is a "kid." :rolleyes:
It's better than some of the other things that he calls people who disagree with him.

Now, back to the subject of this thread. MarineJackson, enjoy your benefits.

AmPat
06-11-2009, 03:25 AM
I'm afraid this kind of attitude towards GI Bill money will impede your ability to really get the most out of an Economics degree.

The attitude is one of trying to get a broad perspective. This is refreshing to me. He will make the right decision for himself and be prepared to defend it.