PDA

View Full Version : Breaking News: Terror Names Linked To Doomed Flight AF 447



Jfor
06-10-2009, 01:17 PM
May be nothing to it but then again.


http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Terror-Names-Linked-To-Doomed-Flight-AF-447-Two-Passengers-Shared-Names-Of-Radical-Muslims/Article/200906215300405?lpos=World_News_Carousel_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15300405_Terror_Names_Linked_To_Doomed _Flight_AF_447%3A_Two_Passengers_Shared_Names_Of_R adical_Muslims

Japandroid
06-10-2009, 01:24 PM
Why would terrorists blow up a place over the ocean? So nobody would ever know they really did it. That would compeltely defeat the purpose of terrorism. Stop reading Druge, nub.

Jfor
06-10-2009, 01:34 PM
Why would terrorists blow up a place over the ocean? So nobody would ever know they really did it. That would compeltely defeat the purpose of terrorism. Stop reading Druge, nub.

You obviously don't understand how a terrorist thinks do you dipshit. Terrorism is by definition an act that promotes terror. I.E. if you don't know if the plane will make it to it's destination that instills fear. You are nothing but a dumbass troll.

PoliCon
06-10-2009, 01:41 PM
I don't think it was an act of terrorism - but it is something that should be looked into . . . .

Jfor
06-10-2009, 01:46 PM
That is what I was saying in the original post. 2 terror suspects on a plane and it goes down. What is the probability of that happening?

megimoo
06-10-2009, 02:22 PM
You obviously don't understand how a terrorist thinks do you dipshit. Terrorism is by definition an act that promotes terror. I.E. if you don't know if the plane will make it to it's destination that instills fear. You are nothing but a dumbass troll.DUmp reject !

bijou
06-10-2009, 02:25 PM
Two names on doomed Air France Flight 447's passenger list also appear on a list of radical Muslims considered a threat to France, according to French investigators.

French secret servicemen established the connection while working through the list of those who boarded the doomed Airbus in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, on May 31.

Agents are now trying to establish dates of birth for the two dead passengers, and family connections.

There is a possibility that the name similarities are simply a "macabre coincidence," the source added, but the revelation is still being "taken very seriously." ...link (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,525642,00.html?mrp)

PoliCon
06-10-2009, 02:30 PM
http://www.conservativeunderground.com/forum505/showthread.php?t=15065

noonwitch
06-10-2009, 02:43 PM
You obviously don't understand how a terrorist thinks do you dipshit. Terrorism is by definition an act that promotes terror. I.E. if you don't know if the plane will make it to it's destination that instills fear. You are nothing but a dumbass troll.


No terrorist groups have claimed responsibility for the plane crash. That's part of the way they spread terror-"Look what we did, maybe we'll do it again".

Lars1701a
06-10-2009, 02:55 PM
Why would terrorists blow up a place over the ocean? So nobody would ever know they really did it. That would compeltely defeat the purpose of terrorism. Stop reading Druge, nub.

What if they planted a bomb to go off at a certain time but made a mistake setting it up?

PoliCon
06-10-2009, 03:56 PM
I'm more interested in what they were doing in South America. Were they perchance visiting Chavez? If not - who DID they go and see??

megimoo
06-10-2009, 06:32 PM
French security DGSE (Direction Générale de la Sécurité Extérieure) agents dispatched to Brazil identified two names on the passenger list which also appear also on highly-classified documents listing radical Muslims considered a threat to France. This link to the air tragedy was described as "highly significant."

The French agents also examined the security measures employed at Rio de Janeiro international port from which Air France A300 took off May 31 with 228 passengers and crew, never to arrive at its destination at Charles de Gaulle, Paris.

DEBKAfile's counter-terror sources report that in the last few months Paris has received several threats of an impending al Qaeda mega-attack against a French city on the lines of the hijacked airliners which struck New York and Washington on September 11, 2001. The jihadis were bent on punishing president Nicolas Sarkozy for posting fresh French troops to Afghanistan.

Should further investigations connect the two Muslim passengers to this conspiracy, it would go far to indicate that the Air France flight was destined to crash over Paris - except that the plan misfired and the plane came down sooner than planned over the Atlantic.

According to our sources, the French flight crews warned of the plot might have succeeded into pre-empting it by an extraordinary act of bravery to crash the plane in the ocean before it reached France.

Alternatively, the two purported terrorists may have been on a suicide operation like the Egyptian Airline pilot who brought his Boeing 767 into the Atlantic off the US coast on March 31, 1999.

http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=1394

megimoo
06-10-2009, 06:35 PM
Terrorism not ruled out in Air France crash mystery

A week after Air France A330's unexplained fatal dive into the Atlantic June 1, DEBKAfile reports from Paris that US, French and Brazilian investigators have begun going through the list of more than 200 passengers on the flight from Rio to Paris with a tooth comb. They are looking at the victims' countries of origin, family, social and denominational associations for possible clues to the mysterious disaster.

After the recovery of 24 bodies, some personal possessions and large sections of the doomed aircraft, there is still no understanding of what happened aboard the craft in the few short minutes before the crash when its automated monitoring systems transmitted a series of 24 error messages indicating the shutdown of critical systems.

As long as the fog surrounding the tragedy remains impenetrable, a man-made disaster cannot be ruled out. Both the French defense minister and Pentagon have said there were no signs that terrorism was involved in the crash. This was short of an outright denial. But some terror experts are not excluding a terrorist attack.

Saturday, June 6, when the French and US president held a news conference at Caen, Barack Obama commented, apparently off the cuff: "…it's not clear yet what happened to the plane but the two countries want to find discover what caused the plane to be lost."

This sort of comment by a US president and America's active involvement in the investigation of a foreign air disaster when the plane is not of US manufacture and no Americans were aboard are unusual - unless a serious crime or terror is suspected. So too is Sarkozy's request to Obama for active US participation in the search without consulting with Air France.

Odysseus
06-10-2009, 08:42 PM
Why would terrorists blow up a place over the ocean? So nobody would ever know they really did it. That would compeltely defeat the purpose of terrorism. Stop reading Druge, nub.
Any other sites that we should stop reading, your eminence? What other news sources aren't on your approved list? :rolleyes:

No terrorist groups have claimed responsibility for the plane crash. That's part of the way they spread terror-"Look what we did, maybe we'll do it again".
This is completely hypothetical, but if the plan was to detonate the plane over Paris or crash into a target there, and the plan went off prematurely, then the terror group might not want to take credit for a mistake, as taking responsibility for a screw-up would be considered dishonorable.

megimoo
06-10-2009, 09:35 PM
Any other sites that we should stop reading, your eminence? What other news sources aren't on your approved list? :rolleyes:

This is completely hypothetical, but if the plan was to detonate the plane over Paris or crash into a target there, and the plan went off prematurely, then the terror group might not want to take credit for a mistake, as taking responsibility for a screw-up would be considered dishonorable.These liberals are all alike,same mindset .It's like somewhere there is a school they all must pass through to allign their little pointy heads up to the North Magnetic Pole !

Sonnabend
06-11-2009, 04:51 AM
Why would terrorists blow up a place over the ocean? So nobody would ever know they really did it. That would compeltely defeat the purpose of terrorism. Stop reading Druge, nub.1. No evidence and no forensics. Means the wreckage cant be retrieved, examined, tested. Also other tests would determine who was on the plane, who was not, where the bomb was, whose baggage it was in and what section of the plane it was in, which could mean that the placement of the bomb could be backtraced. Who, what,. where, when and how, the five steps of an initial investigation.

2. The bomb components cannot be retrieved, which means that the method of explosive used and the type of detonator cannot be determined.,.in case you didnt know it, bomb makers have "signatures" and are as individual as fingerprints.

Reconstruction of the bomb can lead to arrests or leads which can then be followed up. More than one bomb maker or serial arsonist has been betrayed by the way he makes his devices. there are actual databases on this, and they are a valuable tool.

C4 vs Semtex. Liquid explosive vs a thermal charge. Digital timers, motion detection detonators,pressure switches ( the bomb goes off at a certain altitude ) infrared anti tamper devices, mercury switches. Every bomber has his or her MO...and those can be their undoing.

3. No survivors. Duh.

Here endeth the lesson.

megimoo
06-11-2009, 09:24 AM
1. No evidence and no forensics. Means the wreckage cant be retrieved, examined, tested. Also other tests would determine who was on the plane, who was not, where the bomb was, whose baggage it was in and what section of the plane it was in, which could mean that the placement of the bomb could be backtraced. Who, what,. where, when and how, the five steps of an initial investigation.

2. The bomb components cannot be retrieved, which means that the method of explosive used and the type of detonator cannot be determined.,.in case you didnt know it, bomb makers have "signatures" and are as individual as fingerprints.

Reconstruction of the bomb can lead to arrests or leads which can then be followed up. More than one bomb maker or serial arsonist has been betrayed by the way he makes his devices. there are actual databases on this, and they are a valuable tool.

C4 vs Semtex. Liquid explosive vs a thermal charge. Digital timers, motion detection detonators,pressure switches ( the bomb goes off at a certain altitude ) infrared anti tamper devices, mercury switches. Every bomber has his or her MO...and those can be their undoing.

3. No survivors. Duh.

Here endeth the lesson.
The French have one of their fast attack subs there looking for the 'black boxes' !At that depth and the mountainous terrain they will have a difficult time picking up those noise sources built in .The French President has asked Obama for help finding them .The US Navy has some ultra sensitive passive sonar arrays they deploy on long cable that may work in those deep underwater mountain valleys !

Odysseus
06-11-2009, 12:23 PM
The French have one of their fast surrender subs there looking for the 'black boxes' !At that depth and the mountainous terrain they will have a difficult time picking up those noise sources built in .The French President has asked Obama for help finding them .The US Navy has some ultra sensitive passive sonar arrays they deploy on long cable that may work in those deep underwater mountain valleys !

Fixed. :D

AlmostThere
06-11-2009, 12:26 PM
Maybe it was the Italian woman, Johanna Ganthaler, a pensioner from Bolzano-Boen province and her husband Kurt. They were supposed to be on the plane but conveniently missed the flight. Then, just as mysteriously, they are involved in a car accident that kills her and severely injures him. Hummm? Can anyone say Jack Ruby and Lee Oswald? Again, Humm?

Now if you will excuse me I hear my tin foil hat calling me.

samurai
06-11-2009, 12:46 PM
Any other sites that we should stop reading, your eminence? What other news sources aren't on your approved list? :rolleyes:

This is completely hypothetical, but if the plan was to detonate the plane over Paris or crash into a target there, and the plan went off prematurely, then the terror group might not want to take credit for a mistake, as taking responsibility for a screw-up would be considered dishonorable.

Not only would it be dishonorable, I think the bigger issue is that if it failed the 1st time, they'd almost certainly like to try again. Taking credit for the failure puts all of the French airports and airlines on top security level, and also paints a target on the group's back. I think they'd much rather be off the radar of US and French special forces, and lull the French airports and airlines into thinking it was just an accident so they can have an easier time trying again.

noonwitch
06-11-2009, 01:52 PM
I think it was the fault of the Dharma Initiative.

Sonnabend
06-11-2009, 03:58 PM
Maybe it was the Italian woman, Johanna Ganthaler, a pensioner from Bolzano-Boen province and her husband Kurt. They were supposed to be on the plane but conveniently missed the flight. Then, just as mysteriously, they are involved in a car accident that kills her and severely injures him. Hummm? Can anyone say Jack Ruby and Lee Oswald? Again, Humm?

And maybe you need to start re reading your history.

Entebbe might be a good place to start. What was the name of the airline hijacked and flown to Uganda? Air France.

And this


On December 24, 1994 in Algeria four men hijacked Air France Flight 8969 bound to depart for Charles de Gaulle airport, Paris. The four hijackers brandished their AK-47, Uzi, automatic weapons and demanded cooperation from the 220 passengers and 12 flight crew.

A negotiation team decided to divert the flight to Marseille International Airport, some five hundred miles south of Paris. After some unsuccessful negotiations, the commandos were forced to storm the cockpit and first class section, where the majority of the hijackers were accumulated. The ensuing firefight injured eleven commandos, thirteen passengers and three members of the crew. The hijackers were all shot dead

A revenge attack is not out of the realm of possibility.An investigator has to examine all motives. When one airline has been hit repeatedly.

Two Air France planes.
Two successful anti terror operations.

It may have been a bomb, it may have been lightning or simple mechanical failure...we may never know. But whilst the probability can never be proven, anyone worth their salt would be well aware that there is and was means, method, motive and opportunity.

And it's true, no one has claimed responsibility

Yet.

megimoo
06-11-2009, 04:37 PM
Maybe it was the Italian woman, Johanna Ganthaler, a pensioner from Bolzano-Boen province and her husband Kurt. They were supposed to be on the plane but conveniently missed the flight. Then, just as mysteriously, they are involved in a car accident that kills her and severely injures him. Hummm? Can anyone say Jack Ruby and Lee Oswald? Again, Humm?

Now if you will excuse me I hear my tin foil hat calling me.
Airport security is Brazil is very lax compared to France and the rest of Europe.The Algerians hate the French and this could well be a reprisal for some past French action against them .

If they tried to take over the aircraft by threatening the crew with a bomb and got into the cockpit and were actually flying the aircraft into that storm anything is possible .

The chances of the storm alone or lightning destroying the aircraft are slim to not possible.The various systems shutting down and the computer generated broadcast messages of the loss of pressure seems to indicate a hole in the fuselage shortly before the whole thing split or blew apart .

There were reports of an terrorist attempt in Argentina previously so there were terrorists in the area .The French received intelligence of a pending attack on Paris so If this was an attempt to stage a French 9/11 attack on Paris that went wrong it would make more sense..................Monkey see,Monkey do !

Odysseus
06-11-2009, 09:39 PM
Not only would it be dishonorable, I think the bigger issue is that if it failed the 1st time, they'd almost certainly like to try again. Taking credit for the failure puts all of the French airports and airlines on top security level, and also paints a target on the group's back. I think they'd much rather be off the radar of US and French special forces, and lull the French airports and airlines into thinking it was just an accident so they can have an easier time trying again.
Possibly, but given the heightened security, it's unlikely that they'll try the same attack again. The second attempt at a 9/11 type attack on the US was planned for Los Angeles, which is as far as you can get from NYC and still be in CONUS.

I think it was the fault of the Dharma Initiative.
Oh, c'mon, you know who to blame! Say it with me now: The Joooooooooooooooooooooooooooos

AlmostThere
06-12-2009, 12:35 AM
And maybe you need to start re reading your history.
Entebbe might be a good place to start. What was the name of the airline hijacked and flown to Uganda? Air France.

Are we really going to start worrying about old women and their husbands on holiday being terrorists? I don't have the strength for that.

Odysseus
06-12-2009, 01:32 PM
Are we really going to start worrying about old women and their husbands on holiday being terrorists? I don't have the strength for that.

We already do, not to mention infants and housepets. When my family and I PCS'ed in 2004, security at LAX gave us the full monty, going through the baby's stroller and even reaching into the carrier to frisk our cat, despite the fact that we were traveling under official orders of the United States Government. Meanwhile, there have been documented incidents of Muslims deliberately acting out on flights in order to provoke incidents that they can sue over. Remember the flying imams? They refused to sit in their assigned seats and fanned out in pairs close to the front, middle and rear exit rows, requested seatbelt extensions even though they didn't need them and then placed them on the cabin floor in front of them instead of using them, they travelled on one-way tickets with no checked baggage according to an Arabic speaking passenger, the two in the back of the plane mentioned Osama bin Laden and condemned America for "killing Saddam" and it took complaints from the other passengers to get them removed from the plane. Eventually, they sued the airline and tried to sue the individual passengers who complained about their incredibly provocative behavior.

AlmostThere
06-13-2009, 10:45 PM
We already do, not to mention infants and housepets. When my family and I PCS'ed in 2004, security at LAX gave us the full monty, going through the baby's stroller and even reaching into the carrier to frisk our cat, despite the fact that we were traveling under official orders of the United States Government. Meanwhile, there have been documented incidents of Muslims deliberately acting out on flights in order to provoke incidents that they can sue over. Remember the flying imams? They refused to sit in their assigned seats and fanned out in pairs close to the front, middle and rear exit rows, requested seatbelt extensions even though they didn't need them and then placed them on the cabin floor in front of them instead of using them, they travelled on one-way tickets with no checked baggage according to an Arabic speaking passenger, the two in the back of the plane mentioned Osama bin Laden and condemned America for "killing Saddam" and it took complaints from the other passengers to get them removed from the plane. Eventually, they sued the airline and tried to sue the individual passengers who complained about their incredibly provocative behavior.

I realize there is a ton of idiocy at TSA. My thought was sensible citizens shouldn't allow that irrational fear to warp what I think is nothing more than a need of good old common sense.

Japandroid
06-14-2009, 05:19 AM
Terrorists probably got their fill of spreading fear over the air on 9/11, why take a step backwards by merely blowing one up with a bomb?

None of it makes any sense for terrorists to blow up a plane flying through inclement weather over a 3000 mile wide body of water. Terrorists have never done it like that and they never will, you cant spread jack shit worth of fear if people think a lightning strike brought down the plane.

btw- It seems like you guys are rooting for this to be a terrorist attack, like that's the ideal outcome of the investigation. These people weren't the victims of bad luck or inclement weather, but violent radicalism.. hooray! (?)

Odysseus
06-14-2009, 05:10 PM
I realize there is a ton of idiocy at TSA. My thought was sensible citizens shouldn't allow that irrational fear to warp what I think is nothing more than a need of good old common sense.
Common sense and government are often mutually exclusive.

Terrorists probably got their fill of spreading fear over the air on 9/11, why take a step backwards by merely blowing one up with a bomb?
That may be the stupidest thing that you've said here, but I'd have to go through your posts to be sure. First, there is no one, single, monolithic bloc of terrorists who, having accomplished the murders of 3,000 people on 9/11, have decided to stand down. There are lots and lots of terror groups out there, and many of them compete with each other for resources, support and notoriety. Second, if 9/11 sated anyone's bloodlust, you couldn't tell from the incidence of terror attacks since then. Attacks in CONUS have risen, as have attacks throughout the world. Finally, terrorists never get their fill. They spread fear because it's the only thing that they have going for them. Without it, they're just another splinter faction. In fact, terrorists resort to terrorism because their program cannot win popular support, so the only option that they have to impose their agendas is to terrorize the public.

Please tell me that you aren't registered to vote.


None of it makes any sense for terrorists to blow up a plane flying through inclement weather over a 3000 mile wide body of water. Terrorists have never done it like that and they never will, you cant spread jack shit worth of fear if people think a lightning strike brought down the plane.

btw- It seems like you guys are rooting for this to be a terrorist attack, like that's the ideal outcome of the investigation. These people weren't the victims of bad luck or inclement weather, but violent radicalism.. hooray! (?)
Having two known terrorists on the passenger manifest changes the character of the crash from simply tragic to tragic and suspicious. If they were on board the aircraft, they may have intended to destroy the plane upon landing and their equipment may have malfunctioned, or they may have tried a takeover during the flight and the resulting fight might have crashed the aircraft (remember Flight 93?). They may have even been killed by a rival terror group or a member of their own group who thought that they might be wavering in their zeal for jihad. We don't know. What we do know is that a plane with two known terrorists on it crashed under unknown circumstances. Now, admittedly, this is all speculation, but that doesn't mean that we want it to have been terrorism, just that it's possible that it was.

Now, let me ask you a question: Why are you so adamant that it wasn't terrorism? Would you prefer to think that the plane crashed due to weather or mechanical issues that are far more common than terrorism? Personally, I'd rather get on a plane knowing that the equipment is safe and that I'm only at risk if someone deliberately sabotages the flight than get on a plane wondering if something random were going to result in a catastrophe.

MrsSmith
06-14-2009, 05:42 PM
Terrorists probably got their fill of spreading fear over the air on 9/11, why take a step backwards by merely blowing one up with a bomb?

None of it makes any sense for terrorists to blow up a plane flying through inclement weather over a 3000 mile wide body of water. Terrorists have never done it like that and they never will, you cant spread jack shit worth of fear if people think a lightning strike brought down the plane.

btw- It seems like you guys are rooting for this to be a terrorist attack, like that's the ideal outcome of the investigation. These people weren't the victims of bad luck or inclement weather, but violent radicalism.. hooray! (?)

If they made sense, they wouldn't be terrorists. :rolleyes:

Shannon
06-14-2009, 06:50 PM
I think it was the fault of the Dharma Initiative.

Ha!:D It always is.

Sonnabend
06-14-2009, 07:52 PM
Terrorists probably got their fill of spreading fear over the air on 9/11, why take a step backwards by merely blowing one up with a bomb?

Who says its a step backwards? If they succeeded it means they breached security successfully and now they have a way to do it again.

Or they did it for the simple reason they could, and they wanted to.


None of it makes any sense for terrorists to blow up a plane flying through inclement weather over a 3000 mile wide body of water. Terrorists have never done it like that and they never will, you cant spread jack shit worth of fear if people think a lightning strike brought down the plane.

Uh, yes they have, and if you are old enough, you'd remember the seventies and eighties and the skyjacking era. I was there...I saw it happen,

I was 14 the day that the Israelis executed Thunderbolt...the newspapers exploded when the news broke. People were laughing and cheering....Amin had had his ass handed to him, the PFLP and Arafat had been given one hell of a bloody nose, and some of their "progressive comrades" were now assuming room temperature.

There have been several instances of bombs on planes over the ocean...that you dont know about them speaks volumes for your level of ignorance.


btw- It seems like you guys are rooting for this to be a terrorist attack, like that's the ideal outcome of the investigation. These people weren't the victims of bad luck or inclement weather, but violent radicalism.. hooray! (?)

We know what you seem not to...that sooner or later, they will strike again. We don't "root for it"...we just know it for a certainty.