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hazlnut
06-10-2009, 02:00 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/img/Holocaust_Museum_061009.jpg
WASHINGTON – At least two people were shot Wednesday at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, authorities said.

D.C. police spokeswoman Traci Hughes said a person walked into the museum at about 1 p.m. with a rifle and shot a guard. Hughes says the shooter was also shot.

Hughes said the conditions of those shot were not known. Both were being rushed to a hospital.
U.S. Park Police gave slightly different information, saying three people had been shot. Fire department spokesman Alan Etter told CNN a third person was hurt after being cut by broken glass.

The museum normally has a heavy security presence with guards positioned both inside and outside. All visitors are required to pass through metal detectors at the entrance, and bags are screened.
The museum, located just off the National Mall near the Washington Monument, is a popular tourist attraction. It draws about 1.7 million visitors each year.

Roads surrounding the museum have been closed.

Police: At least 2 shot inside Holocaust Museum (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090610/ap_on_re_us/us_holocaust_museum_shooting)

What the heck, man. This is very distressing. The Holocaust Memorial Museum is truly a moving and emotional experience. Say a prayer for the two people who were shot.

linda22003
06-10-2009, 02:05 PM
It's now being reported here as three people shot, and the man had a shotgun. Friend of Scott Roeder's or friend of Gator's? :confused:

PoliCon
06-10-2009, 02:33 PM
and they are not giving any details about the shooter - a red flag if you ask me.

Lars1701a
06-10-2009, 02:37 PM
It's now being reported here as three people shot, and the man had a shotgun. Friend of Scott Roeder's or friend of Gator's? :confused:

Sure it aint gator?


Been there twice very somber place.

hazlnut
06-10-2009, 02:51 PM
The gunman has officially been identified as James W Von Brunn (http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/tapped_archive?month=06&year=2009&base_name=holocaust_musuem_shooter_is_wh).


According to NBC, the man who shot a security guard and potentially one to two other people at the Holocaust Museum today is 89-year old James W. Von Brunn. Von Brunn maintains a white-supremacist website, HolyWesternEmpire.org. The biography of Von Brunn on the site states that he spent over six years in federal prison for attempting to "place the treasonous Federal Reserve Board of Governors under legal, non-violent, citizens arrest." A World War II veteran and resident of Maryland, Von Brunn is the author of a pamphlet entitled "Kill the Best Gentiles: A new, hard-hitting exposé of the JEW CONSPIRACY to destroy the White gene-pool." He is a Holocaust denier who has written that "Hilter's worse mistake" was the "he didn't gas the Jews."

According to the early accounts, he entered the museum and shot one security guard, then was shot by a second security guard. A third person was taken to the hospital to be treated for glass cuts.

Lars1701a
06-10-2009, 02:51 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/img/Holocaust_Museum_061009.jpg
WASHINGTON – At least two people were shot Wednesday at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, authorities said.

D.C. police spokeswoman Traci Hughes said a person walked into the museum at about 1 p.m. with a rifle and shot a guard. Hughes says the shooter was also shot.

Hughes said the conditions of those shot were not known. Both were being rushed to a hospital.
U.S. Park Police gave slightly different information, saying three people had been shot. Fire department spokesman Alan Etter told CNN a third person was hurt after being cut by broken glass.

The museum normally has a heavy security presence with guards positioned both inside and outside. All visitors are required to pass through metal detectors at the entrance, and bags are screened.
The museum, located just off the National Mall near the Washington Monument, is a popular tourist attraction. It draws about 1.7 million visitors each year.

Roads surrounding the museum have been closed.

Police: At least 2 shot inside Holocaust Museum (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090610/ap_on_re_us/us_holocaust_museum_shooting)

What the heck, man. This is very distressing. The Holocaust Memorial Museum is truly a moving and emotional experience. Say a prayer for the two people who were shot.


Aren't you a atheist? pretty hypocritical if you are.

Lars1701a
06-10-2009, 02:52 PM
The gunman has officially been identified as James W Von Brunn (http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/tapped_archive?month=06&year=2009&base_name=holocaust_musuem_shooter_is_wh).



According to the early accounts, he entered the museum and shot one security guard, then was shot by a second security guard. A third person was taken to the hospital to be treated for glass cuts.

Sounds like a man after Gators heart.

PoliCon
06-10-2009, 03:29 PM
I'm surprised they haven't labled him a republican yet . . . .

linda22003
06-10-2009, 05:21 PM
One of the security guards has died, and the gunman is in "critical condition" at the hospital. Good thing I'm not a doctor there; it would be too easy to have a fatal outcome. :mad:

Lars1701a
06-10-2009, 05:23 PM
One of the security guards has died, and the gunman is in "critical condition" at the hospital. Good thing I'm not a doctor there; it would be too easy to have a fatal outcome. :mad:

I am shocked that an old man like that lived at all after being shot.

GF Kennan
06-10-2009, 05:40 PM
and they are not giving any details about the shooter - a red flag if you ask me.

Lots of details available, including his website (http://www.holywesternempire.org/page2.html). He's a great believer in the superiority of Western, White, Christian Culture. Not unlike some here.

linda22003
06-10-2009, 05:42 PM
I took a look at the website. It seems to be a one-man, errr. one-loon show.

Lars1701a
06-10-2009, 05:43 PM
Lots of details available, including his website (http://www.holywesternempire.org/page2.html). He's a great believer in the superiority of Western, White, Christian Culture. Not unlike some here.

Well I dont think being white is superior but I know our western culture is. (well at least it was till the libs got hold of it)

hazlnut
06-10-2009, 06:06 PM
One of the security guards has died, and the gunman is in "critical condition" at the hospital. Good thing I'm not a doctor there; it would be too easy to have a fatal outcome. :mad:

The security guard's name is Stephen Tyrone Johns (http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2009/06/10/UPI-NewsTrack-TopNews/UPI-92321244667600/). Condolences to his family.


WASHINGTON, June 10 (UPI) -- A U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum guard died from wounds he received during an exchange of gunfire with a suspected white supremacist Wednesday, officials said.

The security guard, identified as Stephen Tyrone Johns, and the gunman were both taken to George Washington University Hospital where Johns died, several media outlets reported.

...snip...

"There are no words to express our grief and shock over today's events at the museum, which took the life of officer Stephen Tyrone Johns," the facility posted on its Web site. "Officer Johns, who died heroically in the line of duty, served on the Museum's security staff for six years. Our thoughts and prayers go out to officer Johns's family."

The message said the Holocaust Museum would be closed Thursday and its flags flown at half-staff to honor Johns.

hazlnut
06-10-2009, 06:47 PM
I'm surprised they haven't labled him a republican yet . . . .

I hope left-leaning pundits don't go that way--we really need to be coming together on this and not get into that divisive b.s. To the extent any member of MSM drops in the words, "right-wing" or "far-right" when discussing James von Brunn, I think is wrong. Preventing this type of violence, keeping people safe needs to be our focus.

I've only tuned into the CNN and Fox today and both have been covering von Brunn as an anti-government extremist--an anti-semite and a racist. We need to all get on the same side as far as seeing this person for what he is and not assigning him a partisan label.

asdf2231
06-10-2009, 07:09 PM
Lots of details available, including his website (http://www.holywesternempire.org/page2.html). He's a great believer in the superiority of Western, White, Christian Culture. Not unlike some here.

FOAD Klan Boi.

SarasotaRepub
06-10-2009, 08:40 PM
I hope left-leaning pundits don't go that way--we really need to be coming together on this and not get into that divisive b.s. To the extent any member of MSM drops in the words, "right-wing" or "far-right" when discussing James von Brunn, I think is wrong. Preventing this type of violence, keeping people safe needs to be our focus.

I've only tuned into the CNN and Fox today and both have been covering von Brunn as an anti-government extremist--an anti-semite and a racist. We need to all get on the same side as far as seeing this person for what he is and not assigning him a partisan label.

Agree 100 %.

Odysseus
06-10-2009, 08:48 PM
I'm surprised they haven't labled him a republican yet . . . .
It's early. Give it an hour. :rolleyes:

I hope left-leaning pundits don't go that way--we really need to be coming together on this and not get into that divisive b.s. To the extent any member of MSM drops in the words, "right-wing" or "far-right" when discussing James von Brunn, I think is wrong. Preventing this type of violence, keeping people safe needs to be our focus.

I've only tuned into the CNN and Fox today and both have been covering von Brunn as an anti-government extremist--an anti-semite and a racist. We need to all get on the same side as far as seeing this person for what he is and not assigning him a partisan label.

To the MSM, an anti-government extremist, antisemite and racist is a Republican. How much do you want to bet that within 24-hours, both the MSM and at least one prominent Democrat will tie this in to talk radio and conservative anti-government rhetoric?

Quick, without Googling, what was the name of the Private who was murdered in Arkansas by the Jihadi? Between this and Tiller, don't expect any more on that killing in the media.

MrsSmith
06-10-2009, 09:50 PM
Holocaust Museum Shooting, Other Recent Attacks Prove Domestic Extremism a Threat

US News & World Report (http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/national/2009/06/10/holocaust-museum-shooting-other-recent-attacks-prove-domestic-extremism-a-threat.html)


A month before a suspected white supremacist walked into the Holocaust Memorial Museum in downtown Washington and opened fire, the Department of Homeland Security warned that domestic right-wing extremism was the most pressing domestic terrorist threat that the country faced.

Conservatives were outraged that the DHS analysts had singled out antiabortion and antitax radicals for scrutiny. But the report was part of a series that DHS compiles on domestic dangers from all sides of the political spectrum, an area that's taken a back seat to overseas threats.

A series of recent incidents shows the prescience of those reports and illustrates the worrying reality that terrorism often comes from inside the homeland. Worse still, the reports caution that such attacks are likely to happen again. In the past two weeks, the country has seen the bombing of a Starbucks coffee shop in New York City, the arrest of four men for allegedly plotting to blow up synagogues and shoot down planes, the shooting of two soldiers at an Army recruitment center in Arkansas, the assassination of a doctor inside a Kansas church, and the shooting at the Holocaust Museum. Although these are not all cases of right-wing extremism, each is an example of domestic terrorism.
>>>




Attacks validate DHS report, some say

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0609/23606.html

Civil rights activists say a string of recent attacks blamed on right-wing extremists, including Wednesday’s shooting at the Holocaust Museum, show that conservative critics were too quick to fault the Department of Homeland Security over an April report warning about the potential for such violence.


The report was roundly criticized by Republicans for painting conservatives as a threat—particularly military veterans and those opposed to abortion or immigration – and DHS later withdrew the report.


“I think this latest round of killing once again shows how ridiculous the criticism from the right of the Department of Homeland Security report was. That whole brouhaha was absurd,” said Mark Potok of the Southern Poverty Law Center. “Rush Limbaugh and John Boehner can go on until the end of time about how [the report] was an attack on conservatives, but in reality it was a perfectly sober assessment of what was going on out there.”



Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0609/23606.html#ixzz0I59K6vVz&C



Nope, no one at all pointing fingers at Republicans.

hazlnut
06-10-2009, 10:49 PM
I heard today that apparently skinheads and neo-nazis periodically visit the Holocaust Memorial Museum to view the uniforms and photos and films. I don't know how often that happens but the notion of standing next to someone while they are getting excited by the stories told in that museum is very disturbing.

This story (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ifuASMJJBT0f-fzzhjBzCvkRLUQAD98O3T2G0)covers the museum's opening and a bomb plot in 2002.

I visited the Holocaust Memorial back when it first opened and it was emotional draining in seeing what we are capable of and also emotionally uplifting in seeing what we can overcome.

Odysseus
06-10-2009, 11:07 PM
Nope, no one at all pointing fingers at Republicans.

And, apparently, among veterans, WWII veterans are a particularly high risk group.

hazlnut
06-10-2009, 11:10 PM
And, apparently, among veterans, WWII veterans are a particularly high risk group.

Who is saying that? (WWII vets)

Odysseus
06-10-2009, 11:22 PM
Who is saying that? (WWII vets)

Well, DHS claimed that military veterans are a high risk group, and this guy is a WWII vet, so I just put 1 and 1 together and got 3. :D

hazlnut
06-11-2009, 12:03 AM
Well, DHS claimed that military veterans are a high risk group, and this guy is a WWII vet, so I just put 1 and 1 together and got 3. :D

That fact that he is a WWII vet has only been put out there because on his own website, he makes a point of including it in his biography.

I have not heard any commentators make the connection you're making.

Maybe some on the far-left will try to make the connections you are upset about and I agree, that is upsetting and people should not use any of these incidents to score partisan points. But, yes, some will.

I think I said earlier, we need to stick together in shinning a light on this man, von Brunn, and people like him--and this has nothing to do with his service record.

On positive note--that guard, Stephen John, is really a hero. There were 2000 people including children in that museum, and had he not put himself in von Brunn's way, it could have been a massacre. Hopefully some folks who were there are reaching out to his family.

NJCardFan
06-11-2009, 12:49 AM
It's early. Give it an hour. :rolleyes:


To the MSM, an anti-government extremist, antisemite and racist is a Republican. How much do you want to bet that within 24-hours, both the MSM and at least one prominent Democrat will tie this in to talk radio and conservative anti-government rhetoric?

Quick, without Googling, what was the name of the Private who was murdered in Arkansas by the Jihadi? Between this and Tiller, don't expect any more on that killing in the media.
My guess by this time tomorrow MSNBC will make this the top subject of all of it's programming.

Odysseus
06-11-2009, 07:28 AM
That fact that he is a WWII vet has only been put out there because on his own website, he makes a point of including it in his biography.

I have not heard any commentators make the connection you're making.

Maybe some on the far-left will try to make the connections you are upset about and I agree, that is upsetting and people should not use any of these incidents to score partisan points. But, yes, some will.

I think I said earlier, we need to stick together in shinning a light on this man, von Brunn, and people like him--and this has nothing to do with his service record.

On positive note--that guard, Stephen John, is really a hero. There were 2000 people including children in that museum, and had he not put himself in von Brunn's way, it could have been a massacre. Hopefully some folks who were there are reaching out to his family.
It was a highly facetious comment. I should have included the smiley the first time, but by now, I'd have figured that you got it when I mentioned that 1+1=3.

The DHS report that cited veterans, tea party attendees and various other conservatives as potential terrorists was absurd, but thanks to von Brunn, it's getting a new lease on life. Von Brunn's service record had nothing to do with his rampage, and even going back to back with the Tiller killing, this is hardly a trend, but as I've repeatedly pointed out, the far greater risk of this kind of attack comes from the jihadis in our midst, but now that the MSM has two shootings that they can blame on the right, don't expect that to get any coverage.

My guess by this time tomorrow MSNBC will make this the top subject of all of it's programming.
You think that it will take that long? ;)

gator
06-11-2009, 07:57 AM
There is something that is bothersome about this incident.

A few days ago a Black Muslim shot two US Army recruiters in front of a Recruitment station. It was no doubt that it was a hate crime.

The story not widely reported in the main stream press and several news sources did not even mention that the SOB that did the shooting was a Black Muslim. It should have outraged America.

I suspect this story about the shooting in the museum will be all over the news for a couple of weeks and that every news source will talk about the man being a White Supremacist. Every news analysis on every network will talk about how evil the man was to do such a thing. There will be discussions about how evil mean old White Men are and how unacceptable it is to have the people exist in America.

Obama may even give a speech about the incident and remind everybody that his administration warned us about the Mean Old White Men Veteran terrorists.

I have yet to hear the same reporting and analysis on the Black Muslims.

gator
06-11-2009, 08:08 AM
Sounds like a man after Gators heart.

The only thing that I have ever really advocated has been justice for the crewmembers of the USS Liberty and for the US to stop giving money to Middle East countries so why did you feel it was necessary to make this post, other than your intolerance and stupidity? These things have to do with my country's relationship with an evil Middle East country, not anything to do with ethnic or religious groups.

My father and uncle proudly fought in WWII to liberate the events depicted at the Museum so don't give me your filthy BS.

Grow up.

Odysseus
06-11-2009, 08:12 AM
There is something that is bothersome about this incident.

A few days ago a Black Muslim shot two US Army recruiters in front of a Recruitment station. It was no doubt that is was a hate crime.

The story not widely reported in the main stream press and several news sources did not even mention that the SOB that did the shooting was a Black Muslim. It should have outraged America.

I suspect this story about the shooting in the museum will be all over the news for a couple of weeks and that every news source will talk about the man being a White Supremacist. Every news analysis on every network will talk about how evil the man was to do such a thing. There will be discussions about how evil mean old White Men are and how unacceptable it is to have the people exist in America.

Obama may even give a speech about the incident and remind everybody that his administration warned us about the Mean Old White Men Veteran terrorists.

I have yet to hear the same reporting and analysis on the Black Muslims.

At the risk of inviting a string of invective from you, I'll point out that this part of the subject has been addressed. See links below and post directly above. Also, it's not limited to Black Muslims. Recent immigrants from Middle Eastern countries have a long track record of this kind of domestic terror attack. But, naturally, Obama will speak out against this crime, as he did against the murder of Dr. Tiller. Still no word from our Commander-in-Chief about the murder and attempted murder of two young men who had sworn to support and defend the Constitution and follow the orders of the president, though.
http://www.conservativeunderground.com/forum505/showpost.php?p=143799&postcount=45
http://www.conservativeunderground.com/forum505/showpost.php?p=142018&postcount=27

gator
06-11-2009, 09:46 AM
At the risk of inviting a string of invective from you, I'll point out that this part of the subject has been addressed. See links below and post directly above. Also, it's not limited to Black Muslims. Recent immigrants from Middle Eastern countries have a long track record of this kind of domestic terror attack. But, naturally, Obama will speak out against this crime, as he did against the murder of Dr. Tiller. Still no word from our Commander-in-Chief about the murder and attempted murder of two young men who had sworn to support and defend the Constitution and follow the orders of the president, though.
http://www.conservativeunderground.com/forum505/showpost.php?p=143799&postcount=45
http://www.conservativeunderground.com/forum505/showpost.php?p=142018&postcount=27

You really need to concentrate on doing your S3 job and spend less time posting on the Internet. You do know there are two wars on at this time, don't you? Don't you think you should actually spend your time soldiering instead of contributing to an Internet Discussion forum? Do your job at Ft Hood like the rest of the soldiers in the Army do and spend less time worring about what I say on CU.

Lars1701a
06-11-2009, 10:31 AM
You really need to concentrate on doing your S3 job and spend less time posting on the Internet. You do know there are two wars on at this time, don't you? Don't you think you should actually spend your time soldiering instead of contributing to an Internet Discussion forum? Do your job at Ft Hood like the rest of the soldiers in the Army do and spend less time worring about what I say on CU.

Now that you have been pwnd by him you then throw mud at him. Typical. :rolleyes:

Odysseus
06-11-2009, 12:28 PM
You really need to concentrate on doing your S3 job and spend less time posting on the Internet. You do know there are two wars on at this time, don't you? Don't you think you should actually spend your time soldiering instead of contributing to an Internet Discussion forum? Do your job at Ft Hood like the rest of the soldiers in the Army do and spend less time worring about what I say on CU.
My apologies. I didn't realize that my demonstrating your inability to think beyond simplistic slogans and regurgitate fringe conspiracy theories was weighing this heavily on you. Should I inform my boss that you'll be acting on your previous threats?

Now that you have been pwnd by him you then throw mud at him. Typical. :rolleyes:
Isn't it? The worst part is that I agreed with him. Now I feel like I need a shower.:eek:

hazlnut
06-11-2009, 05:46 PM
UPDATE:

Von Brunn Charged In Holocaust Museum Slay (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/06/11/national/main5081102.shtml)


James von Brunn, an 88-year-old with a violent and virulently anti-Semitic past, was formally charged with murder Thursday in the shooting death of a security guard at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, D.C.

Joseph Persichini, assistant director in charge of the Washington FBI field office, also said the shootings were still being investigated as a possible hate crime or a case of domestic terrorism.

Von Brunn allegedly entered the museum Wednesday with a .22-caliber rifle and opened fire, police said. Guard Stephen Tyrone Johns was fatally shot in the exchange. Von Brunn was critically wounded when security guards returned fire and is currently hospitalized.

In a notebook investigators found in von Brunn's car near the museum, he wrote that President Obama was "created by Jews" and "does what his Jew owners tell him to do," according the the criminal complaint filed Thursday.

Von Brunn is also being charged with killing in the course of possessing a firearm in a federal facility, Metropolitan Police Chief Cathy L. Lanier said. The charges were announced at a Thursday press conference by Washington, D.C. Mayor Adrian M. Fenty and law enforcement officials.

Von Brunn was convicted of attempting to kidnap members of the Federal Reserve Board and served six years in prison.

CueSi
06-11-2009, 09:20 PM
At the risk of inviting a string of invective from you, I'll point out that this part of the subject has been addressed. See links below and post directly above. Also, it's not limited to Black Muslims. Recent immigrants from Middle Eastern countries have a long track record of this kind of domestic terror attack. But, naturally, Obama will speak out against this crime, as he did against the murder of Dr. Tiller. Still no word from our Commander-in-Chief about the murder and attempted murder of two young men who had sworn to support and defend the Constitution and follow the orders of the president, though.
http://www.conservativeunderground.com/forum505/showpost.php?p=143799&postcount=45
http://www.conservativeunderground.com/forum505/showpost.php?p=142018&postcount=27


He DID issue a statement. . .three days later . . . it was so tepid and sanitized, you could wash a fresh tattoo with it.

~QC

PoliCon
06-12-2009, 12:43 AM
UPDATE:

Von Brunn Charged In Holocaust Museum Slay (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/06/11/national/main5081102.shtml)



Von Brunn was convicted of attempting to kidnap members of the Federal Reserve Board and served six years in prison.
must be a close friend of gators

Odysseus
06-12-2009, 10:28 AM
He DID issue a statement. . .three days later . . . it was so tepid and sanitized, you could wash a fresh tattoo with it.

~QC
Nice analogy.

must be a close friend of gators

According to Rush Limbaugh, Von Brunn also had the address of the offices of The Weekly Standard on him when he was caught. They found out about it when the FBI went to their offices to see if he'd been there or made any threats against them. It seems that he didn't care much for NeoCons, either, and was targetting them for a follow up attack. Funny how that tidbit hasn't been reported anywhere else... :rolleyes:

Japandroid
06-12-2009, 10:38 AM
According to Rush Limbaugh, Von Brunn also had the address of the offices of The Weekly Standard on him when he was caught. They found out about it when the FBI went to their offices to see if he'd been there or made any threats against them. It seems that he didn't care much for NeoCons, either, and was targetting them for a follow up attack. Funny how that tidbit hasn't been reported anywhere else... :rolleyes:

Of course, the radicals weren't radical enough for him.

Odysseus
06-12-2009, 12:08 PM
Of course, the radicals weren't radical enough for him.
Do you mean Von Brunn or the radicals in the media who selectively cover events based on their preconceived narrative?

I'll try to make this clear: Von Brunn targets Jews, and the media reports it. That's what they're supposed to do. But, when it was found out that he also planned to target conservatives who are Jews, the media ignores it. Care to explain why one is newsworthy and the other not?

hazlnut
06-12-2009, 01:42 PM
According to Rush Limbaugh, Von Brunn also had the address of the offices of The Weekly Standard on him when he was caught. They found out about it when the FBI went to their offices to see if he'd been there or made any threats against them. It seems that he didn't care much for NeoCons, either, and was targetting them for a follow up attack. Funny how that tidbit hasn't been reported anywhere else... :rolleyes:

Agreed. This guy was on no one's side. A very angry person and another example of self-will run riot.

I had heard that he was no fan of McCain and the Republicans as far as the Nov. election. I had not heard about the attack planned on the weekly standard. Do you have a link for that?

Odysseus
06-12-2009, 02:58 PM
Agreed. This guy was on no one's side. A very angry person and another example of self-will run riot.

I had heard that he was no fan of McCain and the Republicans as far as the Nov. election. I had not heard about the attack planned on the weekly standard. Do you have a link for that?

Unfortunately, no. I heard it on his show.

As for Von Brunn's not being on anyone's side, he despised Jews and neocons who he thought were directing America's foreign policy towards Israel and fantasized about violent ends to everyone that he disliked. There are quite a few people who see the world that way. Go to an antiwar rally and you see lots of signs attacking Jews and Israel from both the isolationist fringe of the far right and the intifada wing of the left. National Socialism and Socialism are ultimately only one word apart.

PoliCon
06-12-2009, 03:18 PM
Do you mean Von Brunn or the radicals in the media who selectively cover events based on their preconceived narrative?

I'll try to make this clear: Von Brunn targets Jews, and the media reports it. That's what they're supposed to do. But, when it was found out that he also planned to target conservatives who are Jews, the media ignores it. Care to explain why one is newsworthy and the other not?

one supports their agenda and narrative - the other does not.

Odysseus
06-12-2009, 03:52 PM
one supports their agenda and narrative - the other does not.

Yeah, but I wanted Japandroid to admit it. :D

hazlnut
06-12-2009, 06:06 PM
Unfortunately, no. I heard it on his show.

As for Von Brunn's not being on anyone's side, he despised Jews and neocons who he thought were directing America's foreign policy towards Israel and fantasized about violent ends to everyone that he disliked. There are quite a few people who see the world that way. Go to an antiwar rally and you see lots of signs attacking Jews and Israel from both the isolationist fringe of the far right and the intifada wing of the left. National Socialism and Socialism are ultimately only one word apart.

I heard they found a notebook in his car with other locations mentioned.

Would you agree that these lone wolf types are a threat to all of us?

Teetop
06-12-2009, 10:44 PM
I heard they found a notebook in his car with other locations mentioned.

Would you agree that these lone wolf types are a threat to all of us?

Yeah, conservatives. His list included, the offices of Weekly Standard. This was a conspiracy theorist, moonbat, racist from the left side of the stage....:rolleyes:

hazlnut
06-12-2009, 10:48 PM
Yeah, conservatives. His list included, the offices of Weekly Standard. This was a conspiracy theorist, moonbat, racist from the left side of the stage....:rolleyes:

He's not on anybody's side of the stage. He is out there in a scary place and the partisan finger pointing (from the left on this one) does not help.

Odysseus
06-13-2009, 10:21 AM
I heard they found a notebook in his car with other locations mentioned.

Would you agree that these lone wolf types are a threat to all of us?
A very minor threat. Do the math. How many neo-Nazi, white-supremecist, anti-conservative murder incidents can you recall over the last two decades? I keep telling youwhat the real threat is, and you keep trying to triangulate away from it. We have a growing radical Islamist movement in the United States which has targeted and successfully murdered hundreds of people based on their religion, military service or simply for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. If you count illegal immigrants and sleepers, the number of victims goes into the thousands (the 19 highjackers were both). I'm not going to get bent out of shape over a fringe that has killed five abortion doctors in thirty years, or one isolated nut who snapped after decades of bizarre behavior when there are tens of thousands of potential terrorists with the means and motivation to wage war on us from within our own borders. That's a threat to all of us.

He's not on anybody's side of the stage. He is out there in a scary place and the partisan finger pointing (from the left on this one) does not help.
If you want to connect this clown to anyone, there are a lot of people who believe, as he did, that our government is run by a NeoCon cabal of Joooooooooooooooooos who seek to undermine our constitution and throw our support behind Israel because of dual loyalties (*cough* Gator *cough*), but they haven't been prone to this kind of violence and tend to spend their time spewing hate in chat rooms and occasionally marking up the local synagogue. They're a fringe. The partisan finger pointing in this case is meant to discredit and suppress dissent, just as it was when Clinton blamed the Oklahoma City bombing on Rush Limbaugh. The finger pointing in the Little Rock shootings is meant to call attention to a genuine threat that neither the government nor the media is taking seriously.

linda22003
06-13-2009, 10:57 AM
I'm not going to get bent out of shape over a fringe that has killed five abortion doctors in thirty years

Yeah, it's okay, if you didn't like what they were doing anyway. :rolleyes:

PoliCon
06-13-2009, 11:19 AM
Lets remember that the bulk of our DOMESTIC terrorists are on the left. ELF - ALF - PITA - WEATHER UNDERGROUND - BLACK PANTHERS - all very much accepted and integral to the left . . . . We get two guys who are off their rockers who sympathize with certain elements on the right and well - conservatives are all terrorists.

hazlnut
06-13-2009, 12:37 PM
If you want to connect this clown to anyone, there are a lot of people who believe, as he did, that our government is run by a NeoCon cabal of Joooooooooooooooooos who seek to undermine our constitution and throw our support behind Israel because of dual loyalties (*cough* Gator *cough*), but they haven't been prone to this kind of violence and tend to spend their time spewing hate in chat rooms and occasionally marking up the local synagogue. They're a fringe. The partisan finger pointing in this case is meant to discredit and suppress dissent, just as it was when Clinton blamed the Oklahoma City bombing on Rush Limbaugh. The finger pointing in the Little Rock shootings is meant to call attention to a genuine threat that neither the government nor the media is taking seriously.

I think I've been saying this whole thread that I don't want to connect him and others like him to any legitimate group or political party. The people on the left who are doing that are wrong.

These lone wolf types are isolationists. They can't connect with other human beings and just seem to simmer alone to a very tragic boil.

Re: The Little Rock shooting. Every report I've heard/read is taking it quite seriously. Also, many reports I've heard about the Holocaust Memorial shooting also mention the the Little Rock shooting, but barely refer to Tiller's shooting.

If any good is coming out of these recent shootings, it's that authorities are redoubling their efforts to keep people safe.

I say the left needs to stop the finger pointing, the right need to lower the defensive stance, and we need to put our heads together to weed these people out before there's another Oklahoma City. Can we at least agree on that?

Odysseus
06-13-2009, 05:33 PM
Yeah, it's okay, if you didn't like what they were doing anyway. :rolleyes:
Once again, not the issue. I deal in analysis of threats, with costs vs. risk. I.e., how much will it cost to reduce the risk posed by the threat, either in money, personnel or equipment? How great is the risk if we take no action? What are the dangers to the United States? Now, in that context, and only that context, the question is, what do we do to mitigate or reduce risk from each threat? Let's start with Tiller:

Five abortion practitioners murdered over a thirty year period is one every six years. Is it wrong? Yes. Reprehensible? Absolutely. But as threats to the United States go, it's not even in the top 100. How do you mitigate the threat? Easy. The dozen or so remaining doctors who perform late term abortions can stop performing them, or, if the doctors really feel that strongly about it, they can hire an armed guard for each of them. Armed security guards generally vary in cost, but the top of the line folks, like Blackwater, tend to run about $100K per year. Multiply that by twelve doctors and you've got a security bill of $1.2 million annually, with significantly reduced risk of attacks. Planned Parenthood can afford that, easily. Problem solved, with relatively minimal cost.

Now, let's look at Von Brunn. Lone crank who's many sandwiches short of a full picnic basket, and who has been on the record for decades with his hatred of Jews, neo-conservatives, Israel, etc. He finally snapped well into his eighties. Solution? Wait another thirty years and then put Gator under surveillance. Again, problem solved.

Now, let's look at the recruiting office in Little Rock. How many people have been killed in the US by Muslims who have either converted here or entered the country under legal or illegal means, and who have acted out of a desire to attack the United States? I don't mean just one demographic in the United States, like Jews, conservatives or abortion providers, but every man, woman and child in the US (true, they prefer to kill Jews or military/government personnel, but the WTC wasn't either)? And in how many separate incidents? And is the frequency of these attacks increasing, decreasing or remaining static? Is the number of people inclined to engage in these attacks increasing, decreasing or remaining static? I've found information on dozens of attacks, including bombings, stabbings, shootings and vehicular assaults. The body count, even excluding 9/11, is into the hundreds. The number of attacks per year in increasing, rather than decreasing, and the number of Muslims in America is also increasing. Given that 80% of the mosques in America are owned by a Saudi organization with ties to the Muslim Brotherhood, and that these mosques specialize in radicalizing Muslims and spreading the global jihad, it's a safe bet that the percentage of the increasing American Muslim population that has been radicalized is also increasing.

So, we have three threats. One which has remained static at 1 killling every six years, another which has remained static at one killing over the course of an eighty+ year lifespan, and another which has killed thousands of Americans in increasing numbers since the first act of Islamist terror in America in the earily 1970s. Which threat are you worried about?


Lets remember that the bulk of our DOMESTIC terrorists are on the left. ELF - ALF - PITA - WEATHER UNDERGROUND - BLACK PANTHERS - all very much accepted and integral to the left . . . . We get two guys who are off their rockers who sympathize with certain elements on the right and well - conservatives are all terrorists.


I think I've been saying this whole thread that I don't want to connect him and others like him to any legitimate group or political party. The people on the left who are doing that are wrong.
These lone wolf types are isolationists. They can't connect with other human beings and just seem to simmer alone to a very tragic boil.
You work in the media. What are you going to do about the nature of the reporting?

Re: The Little Rock shooting. Every report I've heard/read is taking it quite seriously. Also, many reports I've heard about the Holocaust Memorial shooting also mention the the Little Rock shooting, but barely refer to Tiller's shooting.
Tiller's shooting was covered intensely on CNN and MSNBC. So was the Holocaust Museum shooting. As I pointed out above, both are isolated events that occur rarely. The Little Rock shooting, however, received far less coverage, despite being part of a much more dangerous trend. And, just to see how intense the media coverage has been, you know the name of the shooter in the Holocaust Museum, and you know the name of the victim in the Tiller shooting. You had to Google it last time, but since then, do you still remember the names of either of the victims or the shooter in Little Rock?


If any good is coming out of these recent shootings, it's that authorities are redoubling their efforts to keep people safe.
Are the authorities acknowledging that the Little Rock shootings were the result of terrorism? Are the authorities preparing to crack down on radical mosques and kick imams out of the prison system? Have they restricted travel to and from Yemen? Are they doing anything besides looking for new ways to confiscate guns from law-abiding citizens? I feel safer already.


I say the left needs to stop the finger pointing, the right need to lower the defensive stance, and we need to put our heads together to weed these people out before there's another Oklahoma City. Can we at least agree on that?
Why do you think that the right feels defensive? For that matter, what does the left gain from finger pointing? And what are you, as an employee of a media outlet, going to do about it?

hazlnut
06-19-2009, 03:20 PM
Child porn found on von Brunn's PC (http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jun/19/child-porn-found-on-pc-of-suspect/)


Child pornography was found on a computer belonging to the white supremacist charged with shooting and killing a security guard at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum, the FBI said in court documents.

Agents found the material on a desktop computer seized from the Annapolis apartment, where 88-year-old James W. von Brunn lived with his son and his son's fiancee, FBI Special Agent Ronald Farnsworth said in an affidavit filed Wednesday in support of a search warrant.

Investigators searched the home June 11, taking more than 30 items, including ammunition, computers, thumb drives, CDs, memory cards, cell phones and videos.

Sure, why not. I would not have predicted this, but I'm not surprised.