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View Full Version : California in financial meltdown...



stsinner
06-11-2009, 01:17 PM
"The state's revenues from personal income taxes tumbled by 39.3 percent in May from a year earlier while revenues from corporate taxes fell by 52.1 percent and revenues from sales taxes sagged by 7.6 percent, according to a report released by Chiang's office."

Story (http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE55974820090610)

Just as in every other state where Dems are in charge and pandering to the crimigrants and welfare recipients.. The Liberal model of an economy cannot survive-it's just not logical. Typical of the mainstream media-illegal immigration isn't mentioned anywhere in the article, even though it's one of the largest contributing factors to California's troubles.

noonwitch
06-11-2009, 03:44 PM
Their problems make ours in Michigan seem miniscule by comparison. Our government system is not as large as theirs, for one thing.

jediab
06-11-2009, 03:45 PM
I would love to see a non partisian study showing the money lost by people and companies who moved out of California as a result of high taxes. Kind of hard to substain high taxes when those who pay the most of it leave.

megimoo
06-12-2009, 02:01 AM
This is a good example of what happens when the liberals are in control of the money .They spend and spend with no concern of what happens when its all gone.There is no end to the entitlements and special interest spending .

megimoo
06-12-2009, 02:05 AM
Take a shot yourself at ballancing the budget in California !

"I was able to take it to zero by cutting the Liberal fat with no problems !"

Interactive: California budget balancer

Try your hand at closing California's budget shortfall, estimated at $24 billion. It's not easy, but it can be done. Cut spending, raise taxes and/or borrow to get the state out of the red. For each choice -- drawn from proposals from across the political spectrum -- we've tried to give some sense of the effects. As you craft your proposal, the Deficit Meter will show your progress.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-statebudget-fl,0,95571.htmlstory

Sonnabend
06-12-2009, 08:00 AM
And in other news, every Alaskan citizen is receiving an extra bonus in their yearly refund cheques because of higher oil prices.

stsinner
06-12-2009, 08:46 AM
Take a shot yourself at ballancing the budget in California !

"I was able to take it to zero by cutting the Liberal fat with no problems !"

Interactive: California budget balancer

Try your hand at closing California's budget shortfall, estimated at $24 billion. It's not easy, but it can be done. Cut spending, raise taxes and/or borrow to get the state out of the red. For each choice -- drawn from proposals from across the political spectrum -- we've tried to give some sense of the effects. As you craft your proposal, the Deficit Meter will show your progress.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-statebudget-fl,0,95571.htmlstory

Good find! I was able to substantially reduce it, but not quite to zero.. I eliminated the substance abuse crap and the stuff for legal immigrants, as well as the retiree health care... Unions should not be so much better off than the rest of society, especially teachers' unions.. We're fighting tooth and nail here in MA to get rid of the police details at constructions sites.. I think we're only one of two states that requires this, and it's a massive expense, as the cops are on overtime, and all it entails is sleeping in your car with your lights on to make people pay attention when they are approaching a construction site on the roads...

Japandroid
06-12-2009, 10:35 AM
This is a good example of what happens when the liberals are in control of the money .They spend and spend with no concern of what happens when its all gone.There is no end to the entitlements and special interest spending .

Actually the people over California vote on pretty much everything in CA. So it's not really the government's fault.

Japandroid
06-12-2009, 10:37 AM
And in other news, every Alaskan citizen is receiving an extra bonus in their yearly refund cheques because of higher oil prices.

So like 10 people. Let's try what works in a tiny state (population wise) in the middle of nowhere with population density at like 1 person per mile and try it in the largest state in the USA.

Speedy
06-12-2009, 01:54 PM
So like 10 people. Let's try what works in a tiny state (population wise) in the middle of nowhere with population density at like 1 person per mile and try it in the largest state in the USA.

That is the whole point. Some states do not have the resources for their people to live as well as others and they should not live as well as others.

I am a firm believer in that each state has the right to give it's citizens and even non-citizens as much as they want. They also have an obligation to pay for it without going hat in hand to the feds.

lacarnut
06-12-2009, 02:25 PM
Actually the people over California vote on pretty much everything in CA. So it's not really the government's fault.

Between the liberal politicians, the freaks and the Env. nuts, the state can not help but be in an financial meltdown. Out of control spending by politicians is the problem which is controlled by the legislature and the Gov. You are really a dumb ass if you think the voters control everything.

FlaGator
06-12-2009, 02:49 PM
Good find! I was able to substantially reduce it, but not quite to zero.. I eliminated the substance abuse crap and the stuff for legal immigrants, as well as the retiree health care... Unions should not be so much better off than the rest of society, especially teachers' unions.. We're fighting tooth and nail here in MA to get rid of the police details at constructions sites.. I think we're only one of two states that requires this, and it's a massive expense, as the cops are on overtime, and all it entails is sleeping in your car with your lights on to make people pay attention when they are approaching a construction site on the roads...

Did you just cut or did you try to determine where you would need to raise budget levels to compensate for for area's cut? For example when you cut the substance abuse treatment programs did you increase the budgets for jails and prisons? And the expenses for publicly funded hospitals and emt budgets will need to be increased to handled the increases in usage because of accidental ODs? Keep in mine that for ever action their is an equal and opposite reaction. Usually this expresses itself in the law of unintended consequences but some things can be predicted.

hazlnut
06-12-2009, 06:13 PM
Their problems make ours in Michigan seem miniscule by comparison. Our government system is not as large as theirs, for one thing.

Don't get me started noonwitch.

The school district in CA my wife works for just fired everyone except the teachers (and football coaches). Librarians, teachers aids, computer tech support, music teachers, P.E. teachers in the grade schools. All gone. She's really looking forward to next year.

BTW--they also don't have money for paper. Every school year begins with a paper drive where parents drop off a box or two of white paper.

Public school is no longer free -- the athletic fees are over $1000 depending on the sport.

The reason this state is going belly up has to do with the one problem no one will touch -- the I word.

We should have moved when we had the chance. We still might.

lacarnut
06-12-2009, 07:23 PM
Don't get me started noonwitch.

The school district in CA my wife works for just fired everyone except the teachers (and football coaches). Librarians, teachers aids, computer tech support, music teachers, P.E. teachers in the grade schools. All gone. She's really looking forward to next year.

BTW--they also don't have money for paper. Every school year begins with a paper drive where parents drop off a box or two of white paper.

Public school is no longer free -- the athletic fees are over $1000 depending on the sport.

.

Boo fucking who. My ex is a retired Spec. Ed. teacher; with her pension and going back to work, she makes over a $100,000 and gets off 3 months in the summer along with a bunch of holidays. I think CA teachers can afford to pay for paper. Give me a frigging break.

My dad could not go to high school because he had to buy his books. His family was so poor they could not afford it so my dad went to trade school. It was not until the Kingfish got elected in Louisiana that all kids got free books.

You liberals are always whining about the government not giving you something. Must be mental because the government does not owe me a house, food, education or anything. BTW, liberals voted for those tax and spend freaks in office so I little sympathy for the masses in CA.

Sonnabend
06-12-2009, 09:09 PM
So like 10 people. Let's try what works in a tiny state (population wise) in the middle of nowhere with population density at like 1 person per mile and try it in the largest state in the USA.

Actually, Alaska has 686,293 people in it.

Jackass

hazlnut
06-12-2009, 09:43 PM
Did you just cut or did you try to determine where you would need to raise budget levels to compensate for for area's cut? For example when you cut the substance abuse treatment programs did you increase the budgets for jails and prisons? And the expenses for publicly funded hospitals and emt budgets will need to be increased to handled the increases in usage because of accidental ODs? Keep in mine that for ever action their is an equal and opposite reaction. Usually this expresses itself in the law of unintended consequences but some things can be predicted.

I think there is supply-demand issue with undocumented workers. As long as there are jobs and people willing to hire, then people will come to work and take advantage of the public heath services.

I would like to see the hiring/paying of undocumented workers to be punishable by 5 years per worker. Start enforcing that and the price of Ca wine will go through the roof, but the extreme drain on public services will tapper off.

Japandroid
06-12-2009, 09:55 PM
Actually, Alaska has 686,293 people in it.

Jackass

So Alaska is like the size of El Paso, TX. Do you suggest we implement the same policies for the state of CA than is done for El Paso, TX?

Are you stupid? Do you know anything? 686,293 is pathetically small for a state in the USA, there's 300 million people living in ths country.

Sonnabend
06-12-2009, 10:01 PM
So Alaska is like the size of El Paso, TX. Do you suggest we implement the same policies for the state of CA than is done for El Paso, TX?If you mean cutting taxes, encouraging business, cutting liberal pork barrelling, arresting and deporting illegals, cutting welfare...yes.

I'd like to see California do better.So would most Californians


Are you stupid? Do you know anything? 686,293 is pathetically small for a state in the USA, there's 300 million people living in ths countrTrue. But the good management means that the citizens of Alaska are better off.It's called good leadership and good management and good governance.

Governor Palin seems to know how to make it work,. Arnie, it seems, dont have a clue.

Japandroid
06-12-2009, 10:06 PM
Governor Palin seems to know how to make it work,. Arnie, it seems, dont have a clue.
Again, any success Alaska has had isn't really to Palin's credit. It's a small state population wise that rests on inordinate amounts of resources, there's tons of money and few ways to spend it all.

California on the other hand is overpopulated as hell and had it's resources sapped long ago. There is no comparison, shrink the size of government in CA and you end up paying for it in countless other places. Lower education funding, get ready to hire more prison guards. It's a HUGE state, it takes a lot of money to run it.

Sonnabend
06-12-2009, 10:14 PM
Again, any success Alaska has had isn't really to Palin's credit. It's a small state population wise that rests on inordinate amounts of resources, there's tons of money and few ways to spend it all.

Ah I see. You've governed a state that more or less ran itself, and the actual government has little to actually do..that's why they sit on beaches all day. :rolleyes:


California on the other hand is overpopulated as hell and had it's resources sapped long ago. There is no comparison, shrink the size of government in CA and you end up paying for it in countless other places. Lower education funding, get ready to hire more prison guards. It's a HUGE state, it takes a lot of money to run it.

It has massive resources and is being run incompetently into the ground.

Want to save a shitload of money? Throw every last illegal out. That's good place to start

Teetop
06-12-2009, 10:41 PM
Don't get me started noonwitch.

The school district in CA my wife works for just fired everyone except the teachers (and football coaches). Librarians, teachers aids, computer tech support, music teachers, P.E. teachers in the grade schools. All gone. She's really looking forward to next year.

BTW--they also don't have money for paper. Every school year begins with a paper drive where parents drop off a box or two of white paper.

Public school is no longer free -- the athletic fees are over $1000 depending on the sport.

The reason this state is going belly up has to do with the one problem no one will touch -- the I word.

We should have moved when we had the chance. We still might.

Why? You going to lie? I would rather read noonwitch's responses over your's. She is at least, honest.

As far as the firings, thank the dimwitted state legislature for that. It's been many years stacking up for this festering sore to pop.

Paper? For who(m)? The school or the students?

Public school is free? Tell that to those who pay school taxes.

And the "I" word is IDIOTS!

Move to Texas. :rolleyes: At least governor "good hair", and the state legislature, has kept the state in good shape. :D

Rockntractor
06-12-2009, 10:44 PM
Again, any success Alaska has had isn't really to Palin's credit. It's a small state population wise that rests on inordinate amounts of resources, there's tons of money and few ways to spend it all.

California on the other hand is overpopulated as hell and had it's resources sapped long ago. There is no comparison, shrink the size of government in CA and you end up paying for it in countless other places. Lower education funding, get ready to hire more prison guards. It's a HUGE state, it takes a lot of money to run it.
Why do they refuse to pump their own oil in california? They have billions of dollars in untapped resources just like Alaska.

megimoo
06-13-2009, 12:25 AM
Loosening unions' grip may be key for California

As California teeters on the brink of a financial meltdown, big interest groups led by public employee unions are complicating the picture, with chances slim of near-term reform.

snip

"The Democratic state party is really just an extension of the unions," said Tony Quinn, co-editor of the California Target Book, a non-partisan analysis of the state legislature and Congressional elections.

"The unions now control the legislature and they helped bring about the situation in which we simply spend more money than we take in because of the union pensions, the welfare programs they support and because the teachers union wants more money spent on teachers' salaries and education," he said.

The state is expected to miss a deadline on Monday to close a $24.3 billion budget gap, with moderate Republican Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger proposing major spending cuts.

Unions, which defeated a ballot box proposition by Schwarzenegger to curb their power, have a new ad campaign against his budget move.

"One of the reasons you have the budget mess right now is that everybody can veto it," said Republican political consultant Alan Hoffenblum.

"The governor can veto it, the legislature can veto it and the public employee unions can veto it," he said.

snip

Unions represent a greater percentage of public sector workers than ever in California, up from 57 percent in 1983 to 61 percent last year, the Sacramento Bee newspaper said.

The California Teachers Association last year spent $10 million on political causes, with the California Correctional Peace Officers Association spending nearly $4 million and the SEIU Local 1000, which represents state workers, chipping in more than $3 million, the newspaper said.

Unions are not the only big interests. Although the Republican party has little clout, many from the party in the state senate and assembly feel beholden to the conservative anti-tax activists that got them elected.


http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSTRE55B5U120090612

megimoo
06-13-2009, 08:29 AM
Good find! I was able to substantially reduce it, but not quite to zero.. I eliminated the substance abuse crap and the stuff for legal immigrants, as well as the retiree health care... Unions should not be so much better off than the rest of society, especially teachers' unions.. We're fighting tooth and nail here in MA to get rid of the police details at constructions sites.. I think we're only one of two states that requires this, and it's a massive expense, as the cops are on overtime, and all it entails is sleeping in your car with your lights on to make people pay attention when they are approaching a construction site on the roads...I've read of a police sargent on night BIG DIG construction detail who showed up for work wearing pajamas and bringing his favorite pillow in his police car.

megimoo
06-13-2009, 08:34 AM
Why do they refuse to pump their own oil in california? They have billions of dollars in untapped resources just like Alaska.Those oil strip pumps have been running for at least twenty years now on signal hill just outside of L.A. !

Rockntractor
06-13-2009, 09:27 AM
Those oil strip pumps have been running for at least twenty years now on signal hill just outside of L.A. !
There are platforms of shore that have never been pumped. They have billions of dollars in oil off shore that they refuse to use. I have no sympathy for california and would not give them a cent.

stsinner
06-13-2009, 12:43 PM
Unions were needed a long, long time ago when the newly arriving immigrants were subjected to harsh work environments and treated poorly. With all of the labor laws and trigger-happy lawyers, unions are absolutely not needed.

Today unions are simply a means of extortion and used to protect the unskilled and lazy worker. If you're good at what you do you don't need a union-your work will keep you employed and treated well with fair wages and benefits..

I've been a member of a union, and it was disgusting, to be polite. One of the union members sat down next to me on my second day and introduced himself to me.. He said something along the lines of, and I'm very closely paraphrasing, "If you want to do well here and make a lot of friends, don't try to be a hero.. We like our Saturdays," meaning don't work too fast. I was an engineer, and it was my responsibility to keep the machinery working. He told me not to be too eager to fix a machine when it broke, because that would mean that they wouldn't meet their deadline for the shipments and would get overtime on Saturday.. This attitude was dominant in this workplace. Basically, they expected me to help them get overtime by not doing my job to the best of my ability, which is absolutely against my work ethic.. He explained that it didn't matter how well I did my job because the raises were contractual and we would all get the same raise, anyway.. So the slackers in this workplace got the same raises as the shining stars, and merit and excellence accounted for nothing.. Terrible.

Remember this when you think about teachers' unions, police unions, fire department unions....... Unions are bad.

Japandroid
06-14-2009, 08:45 AM
Unions are a 1st amendment right, like em or not.

lacarnut
06-14-2009, 08:53 AM
Unions are a 1st amendment right, like em or not.

Only Obama and his band of dummies sees a union as a right.

Japandroid
06-14-2009, 09:06 AM
Only Obama and his band of dummies sees a union as a right.

Freedom of assembly. No debate on that, its as clear as day. If you value the Constitution as it was initially written you view the legality of unions the same way you do the right to bear arms. These are non-negotiable, any argument you make to say the right to assemble is not expressly allowed by the US Constitution is wrong. Just like the 2nd and any other that has debate swarming around it.

Teetop
06-14-2009, 09:33 AM
Freedom of assembly. No debate on that, its as clear as day. If you value the Constitution as it was initially written you view the legality of unions the same way you do the right to bear arms. These are non-negotiable, any argument you make to say the right to assemble is not expressly allowed by the US Constitution is wrong. Just like the 2nd and any other that has debate swarming around it.


I never knew the First Amendment had the words, bully, blackmail and coerce in it...

megimoo
06-14-2009, 12:06 PM
FAILURE GETS A PASS
snip

"The All Powerfull Teachers Unions Oppose Teacher Firing For Sexual Abuse of Students !"
.................................
Confronting strong opposition from fellow board members and the teachers union, Canter focused exclusively on teachers deemed to have committed immoral acts, such as physical or sexual abuse.

..............................
After listening to the debate at last week's Los Angeles school board meeting, business leader Carol Schatz said she was appalled.
............................
She had attended to support a resolution to speed the firing of teachers accused of serious crimes. But even this proposal -- tiptoeing on the margins of improving teacher quality -- generated heated objections from the teachers union and its supporters.

...............................
snip

"I came away depressed," said Schatz, who heads the 500-member Central City Assn. of Los Angeles. "If they can barely pass something like that, how are they going to tackle teacher quality?"

By even grazing the hot-button topic, the nation's second largest district has entered one of the most contentious debates in American education, one that increasingly is pitting powerful teachers unions against school boards and would-be reformers.


Teacher effectiveness is considered one of the most significant factors in student success. But giving it a hard look can involve reexamining teacher tenure, teacher evaluations, dismissal of "bad" teachers and merit pay for "good" ones -- all highly charged political issues, especially in California.

Such scrutiny historically has been urged by those on the right, but Democrats -- including President Obama and Arne Duncan, his education secretary -- have recently embraced it.

"If a teacher is given a chance or two chances or three chances but still does not improve, there is no excuse for that person to continue teaching," Obama said in a March speech.

The issue came up again this month in a study by the New York-based education reform group the New Teacher Project, which described a "national failure" to measure teacher success.

In California, a Times investigation recently found, it is remarkably time-consuming and cumbersome for school districts to fire teachers who don't meet standards.

A review of cases in which teachers statewide contested their firings showed that far more teachers were fired for egregious acts than for poor teaching.

In L.A., the debate is only beginning. The Los Angeles Unified School District has set up a task force, headed by education reformer and former Occidental College President Ted Mitchell, to make recommendations on improving teacher quality.

The panel, whose other members are to be chosen by Supt. Ramon C. Cortines, is not limited to looking at teachers accused of egregious or immoral acts. It may delve into what is good and bad teaching, who should be the judge and how the system should promote the good and purge the bad.

Complaining that he had been left out of the process thus far, A.J. Duffy, president of United Teachers Los Angeles, proposed unsuccessfully to delay the vote on the resolution on teacher firing. He was noncommittal about whether he would support the task force.

"If I'm comfortable with the composition of the task force, then I'll agree to be a part of it," Duffy said. "Otherwise, that issue is going nowhere."

Yolie Flores Aguilar, the member of the school board who proposed the task force, conceded that it could be difficult to surmount opposition.

"This is the sacred cow of all sacred cows," she said.

Just discussing the firing of teachers accused of crimes prompted sharp debate at L.A. Unified's board meeting Tuesday.

The measure, which passed 4-3, was a considerably whittled-down version of a proposal by school board member Marlene Canter to urge the state to speed the termination of poorly performing and abusive teachers.

snip
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-teachereval14-2009jun14,0,4614052.story