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View Full Version : Name one thing the government has done.....



stsinner
06-17-2009, 03:18 PM
That it didn't screw up. As I hear Obama talk about more government control over the financial markets, I can't think of anything that the government has gotten involved with that didn't turn to garbage.

FeebMaster
06-17-2009, 03:31 PM
Grow.

wilbur
06-17-2009, 03:49 PM
Military?

stsinner
06-17-2009, 03:59 PM
Military?

At first I thought this might be one-it's true that we have a dominant military, but if you tallied up the trillions of dollars lost to fraud, waste and abuse and the thousands of vehicles we've abandoned on foreign shores after conflicts, I'd have to say that it can't even operate this well.

I think firms like Black water that have a finite budget operate much more efficently because the money is precious to them.. Our government doesn't watch its spending because they know they can always just take more from us.

Japandroid
06-17-2009, 06:54 PM
I think firms like Black water that have a finite budget operate much more efficently because the money is precious to them.. Our government doesn't watch its spending because they know they can always just take more from us.

Blackwater just robbed the US for $55 mil, and they aren't exactly a moral institution. And war is by nature expensive, you dont want to risk defeat just to avoid negatives on a balance sheet. Considering America's track record in wars, I'd say the government has done a pretty decent job at them. Nobody's perfect.

The government does a ton of things for you every day that are not viable for a business, you just ignore them or make ridiculous claims.

MrsSmith
06-17-2009, 08:35 PM
The government only does well with the military when our politicians have enough sense to let the military run itself. Everything else it touches, it destroys. It's too bad we haven't stuck with the limited government intended by our founders.

hazlnut
06-17-2009, 11:39 PM
National Parks...?

WTF am I saying. We live in the friggin' greatest country in the world and you have the gall ask what has the government done. Thought you far-rights were Patriots?

Obama's not perfect, Bush wasn't perfect, but if you think of the opportunities that we have as individuals... You think of how much business and commerce gets done across this country every f-ing day... This country has changed the course of history in two world wars... Dug ourselves out of major economic depression, multiple recessions...

Don't give any b.s. that is was people--the government, for better or worse, is an extension of us. We have the power to set a new course every election.

National Elections for christ sakes! National Highways! National Guard! National Anthem! Good God, man, how dare you ask a question like that?!

We don't get it right every time, but we have an uncanny ability to take step back, make changes, and move forward better that any other society on earth.

PoliCon
06-17-2009, 11:42 PM
The left loves government - especially big government and likes to defend it. The right loves this country despite the government and is ready and willing to defend the country from the government.

thinker
06-18-2009, 12:52 AM
Government is at its' best when it provides a limited social safety net, keeps the private sector from getting too full of itself, and does a passable job of dealing with threats foreign and domestic.

It's failing 2 of the three at the moment, and has been for years.

megimoo
06-18-2009, 01:18 AM
The left loves government - especially big government and likes to defend it. The right loves this country despite the government and is ready and willing to defend the country from the government.

The Government,both Federal and State, exists only to perpetuate themselves and little more.It's has become a Great festering abscess the backside of America and needs to be lanced !For proof just look at the afairs of the state of California.

stsinner
06-18-2009, 08:56 AM
We don't get it right every time, but we have an uncanny ability to take step back, make changes, and move forward better that any other society on earth.

You make changes all right... As we speak Obama is changing America into a country that I don't recognize.. Great.

The only two reasons the government was established were to collect taxes to run a military to keep the country safe.. Yet they make new laws every single day to control us and restrict our freedoms.. Welfare and all the other fraud, waste and abuse is the result of greedy bastard politicians abusing their power, and it's only made the country worse. We're not better off for it.

linda22003
06-18-2009, 09:00 AM
One thing the government has done that they didn't screw up....

As a child of the 1950s, I'd say the interstate highway system.

Rebel Yell
06-18-2009, 09:15 AM
One thing the government has done that they didn't screw up....

As a child of the 1950s, I'd say the interstate highway system.

I don't know, Linda, they have spent over a million dollars here on I-75. They have completely redone the exit ramps. They had already decided to widen the interstate before even starting the work, but "the money was already alotted, so we'll go ahead and spend it" was the explanation given. Plans are in the works to tear them down and start again in 2 years.

linda22003
06-18-2009, 09:16 AM
I was referring to their original construction; it changed America for the better.

stsinner
06-18-2009, 09:23 AM
One thing the government has done that they didn't screw up....

As a child of the 1950s, I'd say the interstate highway system.

The idea was good, but as in all things the government touches it's bloated and wasteful.. It's been proven that they re-pave perfectly good roads to keep the budget up for the following year. Here in the Communist Republic of Taxachussetts the tolls for the Mass Pike and other roads were said to be to pay for the roads, but they've been paid for for years, and they just keep increasing the tolls instead of taking the toll booths down as promised. We have toll takers making over $40k per year to sit on their ass and take money from people.. Back when the tolls were reasonable we had baskets you just tossed your change into, but now that we at $2 on some tolls and even more for trucks, nobody carries that much change, and you have to start using bills that requires a $40k per year no-college-degree state employee to collect from you.

And don't get me started on the Big Funnel...er Big Dig. One woman has been killed by a falling ceiling tile in the tunnel because a substandard epoxy adhesive was used. That project only went about 800% over budget... Then we gave the same firm that bilked us on that project and killed that woman another contract for another project...

I get that you meant the original idea was good, and it was, but the problems arise when the government remains involved.. Everything they stay involved with just becomes utterly corrupt.

hazlnut
06-18-2009, 03:28 PM
I get that you meant the original idea was good, and it was, but the problems arise when the government remains involved.. Everything they stay involved with just becomes utterly corrupt.

That's pretty harsh.

In our everyday lives, thousands of things 'work' because of Government. No doubt, on big scale, government struggles to be efficient and not cause more harm than good.

FeebMaster
06-18-2009, 03:38 PM
That's pretty harsh.

In our everyday lives, thousands of things 'work' because of Government. No doubt, on big scale, government struggles to be efficient and not cause more harm than good.

Really? List them.

Most things work in spite of government.

patriot45
06-18-2009, 03:51 PM
Really? List them.

Most things work in spite of government.

Very true! I always say that the government will keep fixing things till they are broke! :D

stsinner
06-18-2009, 03:54 PM
And, regarding government intervention into the health care industry, I love the saying, "You think health care is expensive now-wait until it's free.."

patriot45
06-18-2009, 03:58 PM
And, regarding government intervention into the health care industry, I love the saying, "You think health care is expensive now-wait until it's free.."

I just read an article where it said if you're going to get sick or need an operation, now is the time, don't wait till after October!! Get sick quick!

Rebel Yell
06-18-2009, 04:01 PM
I was referring to their original construction; it changed America for the better.

No doubt. I couldn't imagine being without the interstate. Only downside, other than becoming a money pit, is that interstates killed alot of small towns.

stsinner
06-18-2009, 04:07 PM
I just read an article where it said if you're going to get sick or need an operation, now is the time, don't wait till after October!! Get sick quick!

LOL... I just hope there is a huge backlash against this plan to stop it. You know he needs to enact it before the 2010 election, for sure!

PoliCon
06-18-2009, 07:40 PM
One thing the government has done that they didn't screw up....

As a child of the 1950s, I'd say the interstate highway system.

living near I79 that was built on alluvial hills and through swamp land when if they had gone 2 miles farther east they would have been on bedrock - I can't say that I totally agree. There was plenty of politics played with the interstate highway system.

MrsSmith
06-18-2009, 09:11 PM
National Parks...?

WTF am I saying. We live in the friggin' greatest country in the world and you have the gall ask what has the government done. Thought you far-rights were Patriots?

Obama's not perfect, Bush wasn't perfect, but if you think of the opportunities that we have as individuals... You think of how much business and commerce gets done across this country every f-ing day... This country has changed the course of history in two world wars... Dug ourselves out of major economic depression, multiple recessions...

Don't give any b.s. that is was people--the government, for better or worse, is an extension of us. We have the power to set a new course every election.

National Elections for christ sakes! National Highways! National Guard! National Anthem! Good God, man, how dare you ask a question like that?!

We don't get it right every time, but we have an uncanny ability to take step back, make changes, and move forward better that any other society on earth.

We do live in the greatest country in the world...because our government isn't through fixing it, yet.

Land of the free...free to do everything EXCEPT:

Drive without seatbelts
Smoke in public
Pray on public property
Support a political candidate while standing on the privately-owned grounds of your church
Live in a tent
Spank your kids
Own anything that isn't taxed
Toss your gun into your car
Bathe in a public waterway
Burn your trash in your back yard
Etc Etc

Shannon
06-18-2009, 09:28 PM
We do live in the greatest country in the world...because our government isn't through fixing it, yet.

Land of the free...free to do everything EXCEPT:

Drive without seatbelts
Smoke in public
Pray on public property
Support a political candidate while standing on the privately-owned grounds of your church
Live in a tent
Spank your kids
Own anything that isn't taxed
Toss your gun into your car
Bathe in a public waterway
Burn your trash in your back yard
Etc Etc

I think here in Florida we are allowed to lightly swat our kids on the behind.:p I always used a wire hanger, of course.

stsinner
06-18-2009, 09:33 PM
We do live in the greatest country in the world...because our government isn't through fixing it, yet.

Land of the free...free to do everything EXCEPT:

Drive without seatbelts
Smoke in public
Pray on public property
Support a political candidate while standing on the privately-owned grounds of your church
Live in a tent
Spank your kids
Own anything that isn't taxed
Toss your gun into your car
Bathe in a public waterway
Burn your trash in your back yard
Etc Etc

I've been saying it for years, and every day it becomes more and more true that we aren't free to do anything in this country, and there's new laws on the books with every legislative session.. It's sickening.. We need Sarah Palin to have a real book burning and burn every law book and then start from scratch with only common sense laws without 50 subcategories of the same crime with a different punishment..

PoliCon
06-18-2009, 11:03 PM
I think here in Florida we are allowed to lightly swat our kids on the behind.:p I always used a wire hanger, of course.
:eek:


















BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

PoliCon
06-18-2009, 11:04 PM
We do live in the greatest country in the world...because our government isn't through fixing it, yet.

Land of the free...free to do everything EXCEPT:

Drive without seatbelts
Smoke in public
Pray on public property
Support a political candidate while standing on the privately-owned grounds of your church
Live in a tent
Spank your kids
Own anything that isn't taxed
Toss your gun into your car
Bathe in a public waterway
Burn your trash in your back yard
Etc Etcwhat was it one of the founding fathers said about trading freedom for security?

Japandroid
06-19-2009, 07:08 PM
Really? List them.

Most things work in spite of government.

Water. Wanna now how much it costs to pump water into your sink? Countries have tried to privatize it and prices went up by 500%, that's water. When the building block of all life on earth becomes a severe crutch who will you come running to asking for help?

The mail. Oh, the extreme-rights favorite punching bag. Never mind that running the mail system in the world's most industrialized country is an immense effort and requires endless funds that no business can make viable without raising prices to extraordinary levels.

Infrastructure. Imagine somebody trying to cut costs by not performing routine inspections on bridges, I-35 all over again. Not to mention incredible delays because making a road wider is extremely expensive, albeit necessary many times.

Police/Fire. Civil security being run by a private company? Are you insane? Your house is on fire and your kids trapped inside, well... should've paid you fire department bill. Somebody steal your car, outstanding payments to the police department unfortunately preclude you from any sort of protection.

Of course, the primary reason that "Privatize everything!" could in no way work is: if any one of the services listed (and many others which I just didn't have time to list) which is run by the government were to fail at the hands of a private company, the effects on our society would be catastrophic. Imagine not being able to get water because the water company went bankrupt, or the fire company goes under and has to let everything burn. Government provides the things that are too important to lose and too expensive to be profitable.

patriot45
06-19-2009, 07:13 PM
Water. Wanna now how much it costs to pump water into your sink? Countries have tried to privatize it and prices went up by 500%, that's water. When the building block of all life on earth becomes a severe crutch who will you come running to asking for help?

The mail. Oh, the extreme-rights favorite punching bag. Never mind that running the mail system in the world's most industrialized country is an immense effort and requires endless funds that no business can make viable without raising prices to extraordinary levels.

Infrastructure. Imagine somebody trying to cut costs by not performing routine inspections on bridges, I-35 all over again. Not to mention incredible delays because making a road wider is extremely expensive, albeit necessary many times.

Police/Fire. Civil security being run by a private company? Are you insane? Your house is on fire and your kids trapped inside, well... should've paid you fire department bill. Somebody steal your car, outstanding payments to the police department unfortunately preclude you from any sort of protection.

Of course, the primary reason that "Privatize everything!" could in no way work is: if any one of the services listed (and many others which I just didn't have time to list) which is run by the government were to fail at the hands of a private company, the effects on our society would be catastrophic. Imagine not being able to get water because the water company went bankrupt, or the fire company goes under and has to let everything burn. Government provides the things that are too important to lose and too expensive to be profitable.

So to you its the Government that makes this country great?

Japandroid
06-19-2009, 07:20 PM
So to you its the Government that makes this country great?

What makes this country great is the freedom it allows you. But what's freedom to live in a tent or not wear your seat belt if there is cars to wear seat belt in, or powered homes that provide shelter better than a tent?

The government is your meal-ticket to every single dollar you earn over the global poverty line. In America, you are born into a right to all things deemed essential (and the list we've compiled of what's 'essential' is actually pretty good), in order to live that American dream. It's a lot easier to save up for that great new house when 20% of your paycheck isn't going to water company. Everything you have was made possible by the US Government and the job it's done protecting you from having to struggle for the basic necessities of human life.

Think before you talk.

FeebMaster
06-19-2009, 07:28 PM
Water. Wanna now how much it costs to pump water into your sink? Countries have tried to privatize it and prices went up by 500%, that's water. When the building block of all life on earth becomes a severe crutch who will you come running to asking for help?

Not much. I have a well. Want to buy some water?



The mail. Oh, the extreme-rights favorite punching bag. Never mind that running the mail system in the world's most industrialized country is an immense effort and requires endless funds that no business can make viable without raising prices to extraordinary levels.

There were private mail services superior to the government's before the government decided to destroy them.



Infrastructure. Imagine somebody trying to cut costs by not performing routine inspections on bridges, I-35 all over again. Not to mention incredible delays because making a road wider is extremely expensive, albeit necessary many times.

We have these problems now with the government running things.



Police/Fire. Civil security being run by a private company? Are you insane? Your house is on fire and your kids trapped inside, well... should've paid you fire department bill.

They could bill you later. Works now for ambulances in some areas.



Somebody steal your car, outstanding payments to the police department unfortunately preclude you from any sort of protection.

So, basically how it is right now, only you're not getting taxed to pay for it.



Of course, the primary reason that "Privatize everything!" could in no way work is: if any one of the services listed (and many others which I just didn't have time to list) which is run by the government were to fail at the hands of a private company, the effects on our society would be catastrophic.

Society is a whiny little bitch. Someone should take it out behind the shed and put it out of our misery before it kills us all.



Imagine not being able to get water because the water company went bankrupt, or the fire company goes under and has to let everything burn.

Sounds like a market opportunity.



Government provides the things that are too important to lose and too expensive to be profitable.

Shame it sucks at it.

patriot45
06-19-2009, 07:29 PM
What makes this country great is the freedom it allows you. But what's freedom to live in a tent or not wear your seat belt if there is cars to wear seat belt in, or powered homes that provide shelter better than a tent?

The government is your meal-ticket to every single dollar you earn over the global poverty line. In America, you are born into a right to all things deemed essential (and the list we've compiled of what's 'essential' is actually pretty good), in order to live that American dream. It's a lot easier to save up for that great new house when 20% of your paycheck isn't going to water company. Everything you have was made possible by the US Government and the job it's done protecting you from having to struggle for the basic necessities of human life.

Think before you talk.

What a libtard. The gov takes money out of every single dollar, and thinks of new ways to take more, the 0 is a master at it. The point is, If you want to live in a tent you should have that choice, we are burdened with laws and regulations that change day by day. What was legal 10 years ago is now a crime, they are running roughshod on us and you can't see it, or you actually like that!

You are obsessed with water, my water bill sucks, and when I filled my pool it was 20% of my paycheck going to the water dep!

The basic necessities are there for all to have easily, the gov prohibits anything more!

FeebMaster
06-19-2009, 07:30 PM
What makes this country great is the freedom it allows you. But what's freedom to live in a tent or not wear your seat belt if there is cars to wear seat belt in, or powered homes that provide shelter better than a tent?

The government is your meal-ticket to every single dollar you earn over the global poverty line. In America, you are born into a right to all things deemed essential (and the list we've compiled of what's 'essential' is actually pretty good), in order to live that American dream. It's a lot easier to save up for that great new house when 20% of your paycheck isn't going to water company. Everything you have was made possible by the US Government and the job it's done protecting you from having to struggle for the basic necessities of human life.

Think before you talk.


That is the most disgusting thing I've ever read on CU. Congratulations.

p.s. I'd rather give 20% of my paycheck to the water company than 50% of it to the government.

Shannon
06-19-2009, 07:38 PM
That is the most disgusting thing I've ever read on CU. Congratulations.

p.s. I'd rather give 20% of my paycheck to the water company than 50% of it to the government.

I'm going to agree with you on both counts here.

Troll
06-19-2009, 07:40 PM
Really? List them.

Most things work in spite of government.

Now, now. Don't be so hard on government. I can think of several things the government does well.

1. Levy and collect taxes.

2. Waste the revenues from said taxes.

3. Engineer failed social experiments.

4. Grow.

5. Pander.

6. Stay in power.

7. Create solutions for things that aren't really problems.

8. Monopolize.

There is no private business on this planet that could ever hope to compete with government at any of these things.

Troll
06-19-2009, 08:12 PM
Everything you have was made possible by the US Government and the job it's done protecting you from having to struggle for the basic necessities of human life.

Clearly I've been misinformed. I thought it was my hard working that gave me everything I have. Do I still have to go to work Monday morning? If the government is going to continue giving me everything I have, I'd prefer to not work so hard. I'm sure that I'm missing some good TV from 7:30 to 5:30.

FeebMaster
06-19-2009, 08:18 PM
Now, now. Don't be so hard on government. I can think of several things the government does well.

1. Levy and collect taxes.

2. Waste the revenues from said taxes.

3. Engineer failed social experiments.

4. Grow.

5. Pander.

6. Stay in power.

7. Create solutions for things that aren't really problems.

8. Monopolize.

There is no private business on this planet that could ever hope to compete with government at any of these things.

Can't argue with that.

stsinner
06-19-2009, 08:19 PM
What makes this country great is the freedom it allows you. But what's freedom to live in a tent or not wear your seat belt if there is cars to wear seat belt in, or powered homes that provide shelter better than a tent?

The government is your meal-ticket to every single dollar you earn over the global poverty line. In America, you are born into a right to all things deemed essential (and the list we've compiled of what's 'essential' is actually pretty good), in order to live that American dream. It's a lot easier to save up for that great new house when 20% of your paycheck isn't going to water company. Everything you have was made possible by the US Government and the job it's done protecting you from having to struggle for the basic necessities of human life.

Think before you talk.

You're an idiot... There was no government when the earliest settlers rebelled against the oppressive English.. The government wasn't needed until people started to lose that pioneering spirit and work ethic.. They had water, had food, had shelter, and then decided to form a government. The original settlers were pioneers in every sense of the word and understood that in order to eat you had to work... You didn't work-you didn't eat.. Then came government... Then, throughout the years more and more people decided that they'd rather sit on the wagon than pull the wagon.. Now we're approaching a point where the people riding on the wagon and their needs is beginning to equal or outstrip those who are pulling the proverbial wagon.. There are other way of achieving everything you mention besides government and, in fact, everything that's been accomplished by the private sector has been done better and more efficiently. The government has no regard for the fact that it has no money and that every dime it spends is our money that it took from us.

There's doing something and then there's doing something damn inefficiently and in retarded fashion, which is the way the government operates.. I didn't say the government hasn't done anything-I asked what it was involved with that didn't turn to garbage or become fraught with fraud, waste and abuse.. Some things I'd rather not have than have them run so inefficiently that they waste disgusting amounts of my money.

You must be loving the B.O. administration and all that he's doing for you... Sheeple..

Rockntractor
06-19-2009, 08:19 PM
Clearly I've been misinformed. I thought it was my hard working that gave me everything I have. Do I still have to go to work Monday morning? If the government is going to continue giving me everything I have, I'd prefer to not work so hard. I'm sure that I'm missing some good TV from 7:30 to 5:30.
All I know is when the checks don't arrive before the bills do at the end of the month I have some very tense days and no one from the government jumps in to get things flowing again.

Troll
06-19-2009, 08:31 PM
All I know is when the checks don't arrive before the bills do at the end of the month I have some very tense days and no one from the government jumps in to get things flowing again.

You mean you're not on the Obama plan yet?! What a putz! ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI

Rockntractor
06-19-2009, 08:34 PM
You mean you're not on the Obama plan yet?! What a putz! ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI

I think the obama plan for me will involve razor wire and re-education.

Japandroid
06-19-2009, 08:48 PM
There are people who work just as much as you do (and probably more) who enjoy a standard of living well below any internationally recognized poverty line. Reason why? Happenstance of birth.

You all act like such spoiled little children, you were born into having the absolute best shot at success of any group on the planet and the first thing you'd like to do is demolish the mechanism which led to the prosperity you ungratefully enjoy. Rather give 20% of your paycheck to the water company instead of 50% to the government? Ok, that makes some sense. But what what about 20% of your paycheck to the water company, 15% to your fire and police protection, 15% more in increased transportation costs because the roads are pay to play, oh and dont forget that extra 20% to the PMC who runs national defense? Shit can add up really quickly when you're dropping all of what used to be your discresionary income into a massive pool of corporate greed.

Where do you live Feeb? Maybe a small house on a large plot of land in rural Montana? I'm pretty sure you absolutely love your well and that sheltered "fuck society!" mentality. Unfortuantely you haven't gotten the reality check you need so badly. Nobody cares about you or your piece of land, your little well and handy internet connection might be the the pride of your measley life but unless I'm wrong and you live in a place of value, it contributes absolutely nothing. I particularly like the line "society is a whiny bitch", is someone feeling a little bitter? Could you not hack it in the big bad city where all the successful people live, or do you think we should man up and drill wells under the 80 story high rise where the people who make your precious markets tick live? You live in a complete libertarian fantasy world where whats best for the individual is automatically best for the whole. The worst part is you are so deeply entrenched in this twisted narcissistic hellscape of a philosophy that you've come to the point where the word government makes you sick.

If you were allowed to see what America would look like without a government you would turn into Karl Marx Jr.

Rockntractor
06-19-2009, 08:53 PM
There are people who work just as much as you do (and probably more) who enjoy a standard of living well below any internationally recognized poverty line. Reason why? Happenstance of birth.

You all act like such spoiled little children, you were born into having the absolute best shot at success of any group on the planet and the first thing you'd like to do is demolish the mechanism which led to the prosperity you ungratefully enjoy. Rather give 20% of your paycheck to the water company instead of 50% to the government? Ok, that makes some sense. But what what about 20% of your paycheck to the water company, 15% to your fire and police protection, 15% more in increased transportation costs because the roads are pay to play, oh and dont forget that extra 20% to the PMC who runs national defense? Shit can add up really quickly when you're dropping all of what used to be your discresionary income into a massive pool of corporate greed.

Where do you live Feeb? Maybe a small house on a large plot of land in rural Montana? I'm pretty sure you absolutely love your well and that sheltered "fuck society!" mentality. Unfortuantely you haven't gotten the reality check you need so badly. Nobody cares about you or your piece of land, your little well and handy internet connection might be the the pride of your measley life but unless I'm wrong and you live in a place of value, it contributes absolutely nothing. I particularly like the line "society is a whiny bitch", is someone feeling a little bitter? Could you not hack it in the big bad city where all the successful people live, or do you think we should man up and drill wells under the 80 story high rise where the people who make your precious markets tick live? You live in a complete libertarian fantasy world where whats best for the individual is automatically best for the whole. The worst part is you are so deeply entrenched in this twisted narcissistic hellscape of a philosophy that you've come to the point where the word government makes you sick.

If you were allowed to see what America would look like without a government you would turn into Karl Marx Jr.
Come spend just one day with me you little piss ant. You couldn't hold up for 4 hours of what I do all day. Your a waste of clothes boy!

Shannon
06-19-2009, 08:56 PM
Come spend just one day with me you little piss ant. You couldn't hold up for 4 hours of what I do all day. Your a waste of clothes boy!

He's definitely something.:rolleyes:

Rockntractor
06-19-2009, 09:00 PM
He's definitely something.:rolleyes:

Where were you back when I was dating baby!

FeebMaster
06-19-2009, 09:32 PM
Where do you live Feeb? Maybe a small house on a large plot of land in rural Montana? I'm pretty sure you absolutely love your well and that sheltered "fuck society!" mentality. Unfortuantely you haven't gotten the reality check you need so badly.

Connecticut, although I wouldn't mind a shack in Montana with a decent well and internet connection.

A nice porch to shoot off with a few thousand yards of range behind it would be a plus.



Nobody cares about you or your piece of land, your little well and handy internet connection might be the the pride of your measley life but unless I'm wrong and you live in a place of value, it contributes absolutely nothing

I'm pretty sure there are people out there who care. If I stopped paying taxes, they'd come and kill me. You'd probably cheer, eh товарищ?

I have no interest in contributing to society at the barrel of a gun, although I do when I can't avoid it. I don't particularly care if anyone else contributes. More power to them if they choose not to. It's the price of freedom, I'll admit I'm not willing to pay it.



I particularly like the line "society is a whiny bitch", is someone feeling a little bitter?

Bitter? Not really. Just being realistic. Society is a whiny bitch. It's worshippers are even worse.



Could you not hack it in the big bad city where all the successful people live, or do you think we should man up and drill wells under the 80 story high rise where the people who make your precious markets tick live?

I'm a telecommuter, I'd be a fool to live in a big city. Aside from having even more government than the average town in CT, real estate and government provided services tend to be expensive.

rofl. All the successful people live in the big city. Cool story bro.



You live in a complete libertarian fantasy world where whats best for the individual is automatically best for the whole.

Libertarian? Hardly. Libertarians think the government will work if they can just get the right people to run it. They're as deluded as any other government worshipper. More maybe.

Besides, who said what's best for the individual is automatically best for the whole? If it is, that's okay, I suppose. If not, too bad for the whole.



The worst part is you are so deeply entrenched in this twisted narcissistic hellscape of a philosophy that you've come to the point where the word government makes you sick.

The word government should make people sick.



If you were allowed to see what America would look like without a government you would turn into Karl Marx Jr.

I seriously doubt it.

Troll
06-19-2009, 09:47 PM
whats best for the individual is automatically best for the whole.

I think you might be missing the overall philosophy of conservative libertarianism. We don't tend to use phrases like "what's best for the whole". I wouldn't go to work every day and voluntarily give away 21 cents of every dollar I earn because of my overwhelming concern for "the greater good".

No, I do it involuntarily because if I don't I'll go to prison. You call it "best for the whole", I call it legalized theft. We don't really care about "the greater good" (myth), and even if we did, we'd prefer to do it on our own terms, not the government's.

On a related topic, did you know that conservatives give more to charity than liberals?

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=2682730&page=1

PoliCon
06-19-2009, 11:58 PM
The government is your meal-ticket to every single dollar you earn over the global poverty line.BULLSHIT.

Rockntractor
06-20-2009, 12:01 AM
BULLSHIT.
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/bovine_excrement_01.gif?t=1245470479

PoliCon
06-20-2009, 12:04 AM
Reason why? Happenstance of birth. Bullshit. Happenstance of GOVERNMENT. Most every poverty stricken country in the world shares a common trait - excessive government intervention in the markets - excessive government control and regulation of commerce and people. The government governs best which governs LEAST. When the government gets the hell out of the way of the people - and the people have an actual work ethic - they prosper.

Japandroid
06-20-2009, 09:35 AM
Feeb, at least acknowledge the other half of my argument instead of using the not-so-clever tactic of quoting each sentence to make it look you are rebutting the whole post.



You all act like such spoiled little children, you were born into having the absolute best shot at success of any group on the planet and the first thing you'd like to do is demolish the mechanism which led to the prosperity you ungratefully enjoy. Rather give 20% of your paycheck to the water company instead of 50% to the government? Ok, that makes some sense. But what what about 20% of your paycheck to the water company, 15% to your fire and police protection, 15% more in increased transportation costs because the roads are pay to play, oh and dont forget that extra 20% to the PMC who runs national defense? Shit can add up really quickly when you're dropping all of what used to be your discresionary income into a massive pool of corporate greed.


I'm waiting.

lacarnut
06-20-2009, 09:53 AM
Feeb, at least acknowledge the other half of my argument instead of using the not-so-clever tactic of quoting each sentence to make it look you are rebutting the whole post.



I'm waiting.

I am sure you are waiting. Waiting for the government to give you something. You and Obama are on the same page "Government is the answer to everything". This sort of stupidity has never worked. Look at the tax and spend liberals blue states like CA. It is a shame we do not have a tax on stupidity. You and your ilk would owe a bunch.

Lager
06-20-2009, 10:02 AM
Why are the lefties creating this strawman and arguing as if it's big government against no government? As a conservative, I believe in limited government, to do limited things, with limited powers. Of course we do not think that the military, police or fire fighters should be privatized. The mistake they are making is that they think of government as just an extension of the people's good will and benevolence. What they seem to ignore is that members of government are usually from the priveleged and weathly class. Their power comes not from the good that they may do, but from the money and influence they wield. To stay in power, they have to spend an enormous time campaigning, fundraising and pleasing fundraisers. Because they depend on interest groups, their independence is limited.

Government is not of the people, or even connected to the people, it's its own seperate class Perhaps in the early years of our republic, town hall meetings represented a true government of the people, made up of directly elected and chosen members of the same community. People who lived next door, or worked in the same town.

It was not the government that accomplished great things or took on noble tasks. Mr. Jefferson once said that democracy depends on the nurturing of certain virtues in its citizens. It was the character, and strength and will of the American people that accomplished great things. Dependence on the government weakens those very traits that gave us our unique position in the world.

FlaGator
06-20-2009, 11:06 AM
There are people who work just as much as you do (and probably more) who enjoy a standard of living well below any internationally recognized poverty line. Reason why? Happenstance of birth.

You all act like such spoiled little children, you were born into having the absolute best shot at success of any group on the planet and the first thing you'd like to do is demolish the mechanism which led to the prosperity you ungratefully enjoy. Rather give 20% of your paycheck to the water company instead of 50% to the government? Ok, that makes some sense. But what what about 20% of your paycheck to the water company, 15% to your fire and police protection, 15% more in increased transportation costs because the roads are pay to play, oh and dont forget that extra 20% to the PMC who runs national defense? Shit can add up really quickly when you're dropping all of what used to be your discresionary income into a massive pool of corporate greed.

Where do you live Feeb? Maybe a small house on a large plot of land in rural Montana? I'm pretty sure you absolutely love your well and that sheltered "fuck society!" mentality. Unfortuantely you haven't gotten the reality check you need so badly. Nobody cares about you or your piece of land, your little well and handy internet connection might be the the pride of your measley life but unless I'm wrong and you live in a place of value, it contributes absolutely nothing. I particularly like the line "society is a whiny bitch", is someone feeling a little bitter? Could you not hack it in the big bad city where all the successful people live, or do you think we should man up and drill wells under the 80 story high rise where the people who make your precious markets tick live? You live in a complete libertarian fantasy world where whats best for the individual is automatically best for the whole. The worst part is you are so deeply entrenched in this twisted narcissistic hellscape of a philosophy that you've come to the point where the word government makes you sick.

If you were allowed to see what America would look like without a government you would turn into Karl Marx Jr.

What you don't realize is that very few if any Americans live below the "International Poverty" line. I work with the poor and needy and I can tell you that the American poor are rich by the standards of the poor in the third world.

PoliCon
06-20-2009, 11:14 AM
Government is not of the people, or even connected to the people, it's its own seperate class . Very true - we do currently have an "aristocratic" minded political class today. Of course - term limits would do a great deal towards disbanding the political class.

FeebMaster
06-20-2009, 12:47 PM
Feeb, at least acknowledge the other half of my argument instead of using the not-so-clever tactic of quoting each sentence to make it look you are rebutting the whole post.

I'm waiting.

That was an argument? Sorry, товарищ, I dismissed it out of hand as generic commie whining.



You all act like such spoiled little children, you were born into having the absolute best shot at success of any group on the planet and the first thing you'd like to do is demolish the mechanism which led to the prosperity you ungratefully enjoy.

Ahh, but that is just the point. I disagree entirely. The government has done nothing but hold back success and prosperity. It gets worse with each passing year.



Rather give 20% of your paycheck to the water company instead of 50% to the government? Ok, that makes some sense. But what what about 20% of your paycheck to the water company, 15% to your fire and police protection, 15% more in increased transportation costs because the roads are pay to play, oh and dont forget that extra 20% to the PMC who runs national defense? Shit can add up really quickly when you're dropping all of what used to be your discresionary income into a massive pool of corporate greed.

The answer is quite simple: I don't care. I'd rather give 20% of my paycheck to the water company and 20% to the road company than have the government take the same share by force. I'll pass on the 15% for fire and police protection. Too expensive. I'll take my chances on my own until a better offer comes along.

FeebMaster
06-20-2009, 12:53 PM
Why are the lefties creating this strawman and arguing as if it's big government against no government?

It's not a phenomena limited to lefties. Conservatives who don't actually want less government (i.e. most of them) tend to make the same argument once a law has been around long enough or if they just happen to like that particular government program. "The law is the law," they say, and don't appreciate any attempts to get rid of that law.

hazlnut
06-20-2009, 12:54 PM
That it didn't screw up. As I hear Obama talk about more government control over the financial markets, I can't think of anything that the government has gotten involved with that didn't turn to garbage.

The Grand Canyon.

BadCat
06-20-2009, 01:01 PM
The Grand Canyon.

Yeah, and since it now costs something like $25 a "car" to get in there, the government has put it off limits to the poor. They finally did something right.

PoliCon
06-20-2009, 11:38 PM
The Grand Canyon.

Talk to your enviroweenie friends about the grand canyon - more importantly the Colorado river and how BAD the government has made things there.

Japandroid
06-21-2009, 03:44 AM
That was an argument? Sorry, товарищ, I dismissed it out of hand as generic commie whining.
Red Scare 2009: Fear, it never goes out of style.


The answer is quite simple: I don't care. I'd rather give 20% of my paycheck to the water company and 20% to the road company than have the government take the same share by force. I'll pass on the 15% for fire and police protection. Too expensive. I'll take my chances on my own until a better offer comes along.

Oh of course you'll take your chances because you know full well that privatized police and fire protection would turn into the massive mess that private health care is now. If your house is burning down the private fire department will probably come anyways and put it out regardless of if you've paid them or not... but they'll leave you with a massive bill that you could never reasonably pay. So, everyone else who pays for the fire protection will essentially foot the bill for you, just like what happens now with healthcare.

You all have this hilarious fantasy that a complete market oriented country will actually look any different than a communist or controlled market country. Either way you're gonna be getting fucked by somebody, be it the government or big business. You can make this desperate justification of "well.. if I dont want something in a complete free-market at least I dont have to pay for it!", but even that doesn't make much sense. The services you actually do want would just go up in price because of the inevitable group of people who just wont be paying in. If this is you guys thinking that going to a free-market will save you any money at all compared to what we have now you're just wrong. Feeb is a bit of a different animal though, he just hates paying taxes. It doesn't really matter if he has to pay more to a private company, as long as he isn't paying taxes he'll prefer one system over another. That's called being unreasonable folks, and unreasonable people do not deserve a voice in reasonable discussion.

Balance is the name of the game, equality between the markets and the government to keep each other in line. Checks and balances.

Japandroid
06-21-2009, 03:49 AM
Why are the lefties creating this strawman and arguing as if it's big government against no government? As a conservative, I believe in limited government, to do limited things, with limited powers. Of course we do not think that the military, police or fire fighters should be privatized. The mistake they are making is that they think of government as just an extension of the people's good will and benevolence. What they seem to ignore is that members of government are usually from the priveleged and weathly class. Their power comes not from the good that they may do, but from the money and influence they wield. To stay in power, they have to spend an enormous time campaigning, fundraising and pleasing fundraisers. Because they depend on interest groups, their independence is limited.
Haha, looking at this thread I can say the consensus is no government is better than any government. Somebody proposed the military was best left in the hands of public financing, even that was questioned. You can't say that only crazy people believe in no government then turn around and say everything the government does is wrong, that makes absolutely no sense. Either you're all extremists, confused or completely insane. Really, I dont know which one fits best (maybe all 3).


Government is not of the people, or even connected to the people, it's its own seperate class Perhaps in the early years of our republic, town hall meetings represented a true government of the people, made up of directly elected and chosen members of the same community. People who lived next door, or worked in the same town.
Pure fantasy, capitalism breeds a class based society. Not saying that's a bad thing at all, but it's just the reality of things. Plus America is now a country of 300 million people and not a few scattered ex-colonies.


It was not the government that accomplished great things or took on noble tasks. Mr. Jefferson once said that democracy depends on the nurturing of certain virtues in its citizens. It was the character, and strength and will of the American people that accomplished great things. Dependence on the government weakens those very traits that gave us our unique position in the world.
lol.

Japandroid
06-21-2009, 03:49 AM
Talk to your enviroweenie friends about the grand canyon - more importantly the Colorado river and how BAD the government has made things there.

You're not actually using weenie as an insult, are you?

Japandroid
06-21-2009, 03:50 AM
What you don't realize is that very few if any Americans live below the "International Poverty" line. I work with the poor and needy and I can tell you that the American poor are rich by the standards of the poor in the third world.

That's my whole point.

Lager
06-21-2009, 10:38 AM
Haha, looking at this thread I can say the consensus is no government is better than any government. Somebody proposed the military was best left in the hands of public financing, even that was questioned. You can't say that only crazy people believe in no government then turn around and say everything the government does is wrong, that makes absolutely no sense. Either you're all extremists, confused or completely insane. Really, I dont know which one fits best (maybe all 3).


Pure fantasy, capitalism breeds a class based society. Not saying that's a bad thing at all, but it's just the reality of things. Plus America is now a country of 300 million people and not a few scattered ex-colonies.


lol.

You misread the consenus then. Why don't you take a poll?
Capitalism builds a society in which one can freely move through the classes. Just look at Oprah Winfrey.
So You're saying that because our country and society have grown so large, the principles and characteristics that made us great are outdated? Since we're a country of over 300 million, we should just sit back with our twitter and facebook, worrying about whether "American Idol" is rigged or not and collect checks from the government as we leave all the important decisions to people so drunk on power and out of touch that they derive their morals from an opinion poll?

FeebMaster
06-21-2009, 11:13 AM
Red Scare 2009: Fear, it never goes out of style.

Hey, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a filthy communist with a furry fetish.



Oh of course you'll take your chances because you know full well that privatized police and fire protection would turn into the massive mess that private health care is now. If your house is burning down the private fire department will probably come anyways and put it out regardless of if you've paid them or not... but they'll leave you with a massive bill that you could never reasonably pay. So, everyone else who pays for the fire protection will essentially foot the bill for you, just like what happens now with healthcare.

You'd better laugh when you say that. Health care is hardly private now. Just because your poor, oppressed workers have to cut a check doesn't mean the government's mitts aren't interfering with things from start to finish.

I think a private fire company that ran around putting out fires they weren't asked to put out and then attempted to extort money from the owners of those properties would soon be fighting fires at their own firehouse and probably their own houses as well.



You all have this hilarious fantasy that a complete market oriented country will actually look any different than a communist or controlled market country. Either way you're gonna be getting fucked by somebody, be it the government or big business.

So your argument is things will basically be exactly the same as they are now? Fine with me, let's go.



You can make this desperate justification of "well.. if I dont want something in a complete free-market at least I dont have to pay for it!", but even that doesn't make much sense. The services you actually do want would just go up in price because of the inevitable group of people who just wont be paying in. If this is you guys thinking that going to a free-market will save you any money at all compared to what we have now you're just wrong. Feeb is a bit of a different animal though, he just hates paying taxes. It doesn't really matter if he has to pay more to a private company, as long as he isn't paying taxes he'll prefer one system over another. That's called being unreasonable folks, and unreasonable people do not deserve a voice in reasonable discussion.

Wow, you've caught me cold. Truly it's amazing to come across such a shrewd analyzer of human nature on the internet. You should consider working for internal security in the coming people's republic. You could go far, товарищ. Or is actual work below you?



Balance is the name of the game, equality between the markets and the government to keep each other in line. Checks and balances.

The real irony is, if you cloaked your blatant communism just a little more in liberty oriented bullshit, CU would love you. I'm afraid you've fallen into the red version of the uncanny valley. It's going to be a long climb out.

Japandroid
06-21-2009, 11:38 AM
Hey, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a filthy communist with a furry fetish.

You'd better laugh when you say that. Health care is hardly private now. Just because your poor, oppressed workers have to cut a check doesn't mean the government's mitts aren't interfering with things from start to finish.

I think a private fire company that ran around putting out fires they weren't asked to put out and then attempted to extort money from the owners of those properties would soon be fighting fires at their own firehouse and probably their own houses as well.

So your argument is things will basically be exactly the same as they are now? Fine with me, let's go.

Wow, you've caught me cold. Truly it's amazing to come across such a shrewd analyzer of human nature on the internet. You should consider working for internal security in the coming people's republic. You could go far, товарищ. Or is actual work below you?

The real irony is, if you cloaked your blatant communism just a little more in liberty oriented bullshit, CU would love you. I'm afraid you've fallen into the red version of the uncanny valley. It's going to be a long climb out.

You skipped like half my arguments again even though I caught you doing it once before.

So, for suggesting that there should be a balance between government controlled markets and freely swinging markets with strong regulations and healthy competitions I am a communist. Do you even know what a communist is?

You will respond at anything I say with an ad-hominem piece of failure that would make the megimoo's and BadCat's of this site very proud. Could you not be more afraid of that growing realization that your entire philosophy here makes so little sense? "Bu-but... but he's a COMMUNIST!", if you actually were capable of sitting down with people and having an intelligent discussion you would either laughed at or asked to leave saying this dumb shit like this.

Just read through this thread and look at your responses, they're all something you hear out of a tin-foil hatted 16 year old kid who hasnt seen the sun in 72 hours. "Fuck society, man!", what an epic calamity your life must really be. Hey Feeb, lol, where'd ya go to school buddy? What was your degree in?

You wanna skip every single argument I make with a dumb little name calling, let's find out some things about you that you'd probably rather us not know.

FeebMaster
06-21-2009, 12:21 PM
You skipped like half my arguments again even though I caught you doing it once before.

No, I didn't. I might in this one, though.



So, for suggesting that there should be a balance between government controlled markets and freely swinging markets with strong regulations and healthy competitions I am a communist. Do you even know what a communist is?

Ahh, the old mixed economy. No such animal. Either the government interferes or it doesn't. There's no middle ground on this one.



You will respond at anything I say with an ad-hominem piece of failure that would make the megimoo's and BadCat's of this site very proud. Could you not be more afraid of that growing realization that your entire philosophy here makes so little sense? "Bu-but... but he's a COMMUNIST!", if you actually were capable of sitting down with people and having an intelligent discussion you would either laughed at or asked to leave saying this dumb shit like this.

My philosophy makes perfect sense. It makes no promises. It tells no lies.

You roll into this thread with "The government is your meal-ticket to every single dollar you earn over the global poverty line" and expect me to have an intelligent discussion with you? What I'm doing is the internet equivalent of beating up the retarded kid on the playground, only it's more socially acceptable.



Just read through this thread and look at your responses, they're all something you hear out of a tin-foil hatted 16 year old kid who hasnt seen the sun in 72 hours. "Fuck society, man!", what an epic calamity your life must really be. Hey Feeb, lol, where'd ya go to school buddy? What was your degree in?

Computer Science. My life is pretty good. I've got no complaints overall, even if I don't have a shack with a porch to shoot off of in Montana. Society is still a whiny bitch, though.



You wanna skip every single argument I make with a dumb little name calling, let's find out some things about you that you'd probably rather us not know.

Hmm let's see. I live in my parent's basement. My father didn't love me. I have a pink mohawk. The government is mean and makes me pay taxes, which is totally not cool man. My teachers make me do homework, which is like totally oppressive.