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megimoo
06-28-2009, 06:43 PM
During the last 30 years Americans have been so politically divided that some of us have called this left-right, liberal-conservative split a "culture war" or even a "second Civil War." These descriptions are no longer accurate. The precise, technical word for what is happening in the United States today is revolution.


Because of our country's history, we tend to think of revolutions as military conflicts, and of the revolutionaries as the good guys; the image of Minutemen fighting valiantly against the British forces at Lexington and Concord lies deep within our DNA. But sometimes -- quite often, actually -- revolutions aren't military conflicts, and the good guys are the ones trying to keep the revolution from happening. In January 1933, Adolf Hitler was appointed chancellor of Germany by its elected president; he would spend the next two years consolidating his power with the legislative connivance of his political allies in the Reichstag. In October 1917, Lenin and his Bolsheviks took control of Russia from Kerensky and his Social Democrats -- who had overthrown the Czar earlier that year -- entirely through parliamentary maneuvering in Russia's fledgling Duma.


What defines a revolution -- and this is the crucial point to grasp -- is that when it's over a country has changed not merely its leaders and its laws, but its operating system.


Since most of us think of computers when we hear the phrase "operating system" let me use this analogy to illuminate my point: Every computer has an operating system, and most of us are using either the Microsoft or the Apple operating system. If you want to do something with your computer -- send an email, watch a DVD, read an online essay like this one -- you must do it the way your computer's operating system is designed to work.


No operating system is perfect, which is why Microsoft and Apple send updates to their customers from time to time. And every so often these companies launch new versions of their operating systems that incorporate a lot of modifications at once. Can you change the operating system you use? Of course you can. Two years ago I threw out every Microsoft-based machine in our company's office and replaced them with Apple products. Last month I met a corporate CEO who had just done the opposite, and replaced the Apple computers in his office with ones that run on the Microsoft operating system.

Democracies and Dictatorships

Now, just as computers have operating systems so too do countries. In fact, countries have dual operating systems - one political and the other economic. Broadly speaking, there are two kinds of each: Politically you can be a democracy or a dictatorship, and economically you can have either a free market or a command economy. Because countries don't buy their operating systems off the shelf, the way we buy our computer operating systems, each country develops its own versions. This is why our country's democracy is somewhat different from Canada's, which in turn is slightly different from Australia's, and so forth. These countries all have free-market economies, but again they aren't quite the same. Still, the similarities among democracies and free-market economies are more striking than the differences. Likewise, while no two dictatorships are the same, and no two command economies work in exactly the same way, the differences among them are comparatively trivial.
snip

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/revolution.html

Rockntractor
06-28-2009, 06:54 PM
It's time to fight this revolution.

satanica
06-29-2009, 10:11 AM
It's time to fight this revolution.

Let me know how that works out for you.

Rockntractor
06-29-2009, 12:11 PM
Let me know how that works out for you.

a free country worked just fine for you for most of your life why do you want to change it now?

FlaGator
06-29-2009, 12:16 PM
a free country worked just fine for you for most of your life why do you want to change it now?

Because he is a liberal and his motto is "if the government can't do it for you then you don't need it done."

noonwitch
06-29-2009, 12:23 PM
I would separate the "culture war" over what is considered appropriate entertainment or over individual morality regarding sexuality from an argument over government control of health care/GM/etc. Mainly, I would separate them because a lot of people who are liberal on social issues are not very comfortable with the government running businesses and banks, or completely managing health care for all americans.

Rockntractor
06-29-2009, 12:34 PM
I would separate the "culture war" over what is considered appropriate entertainment or over individual morality regarding sexuality from an argument over government control of health care/GM/etc. Mainly, I would separate them because a lot of people who are liberal on social issues are not very comfortable with the government running businesses and banks, or completely managing health care for all americans.

I could live with and tolerate your point of view easely.

satanica
06-29-2009, 01:15 PM
a free country worked just fine for you for most of your life why do you want to change it now?


Whats gonna change ?

megimoo
06-29-2009, 01:37 PM
I would separate the "culture war" over what is considered appropriate entertainment or over individual morality regarding sexuality from an argument over government control of health care/GM/etc. Mainly, I would separate them because a lot of people who are liberal on social issues are not very comfortable with the government running businesses and banks, or completely managing health care for all americans.Let me know how well that works when you need major surgery under Obama Care and they decide that you are too old ,too sick or not worth the money and offer you the much cheaper suicide pill option instead ?Take a look at Washington State and see the future of liberal run medical care.
http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2009/03/02/washington-state-allows-assisted-suicide/

Rockntractor
06-29-2009, 02:39 PM
Let me know how well that works when you need major surgery under Obama Care and they decide that you are too old ,too sick or not worth the money and offer you the much cheaper suicide pill option instead ?Take a look at Washington State and see the future of liberal run medical care.
http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2009/03/02/washington-state-allows-assisted-suicide/

Mr. Moo noonie is saying she doesn't want national healthcare.

megimoo
06-29-2009, 09:25 PM
Mr. Moo noonie is saying she doesn't want national healthcare.
If ,GOD forbid ,this pig of a health care bill is rammed through by Pelosi and Reid the first thing that will happen is medical rationing of senior medical needs.They will shut down Medicare and shift the resources to Obama Care.The AMA and the rest of the health industry's are against this as it will dilute the medical industry's profits.

The waiting lists for any procedure will stretch out towards infinity .Canadas medical system is a good example of how it will work or the UK's system is an even better example .They will have to import doctors from Pakistan or Bangladesh who will work under a 'caste system' of patients for fixed fees and an a heavy established patient case load. .

People who's hip and knee joints wearout will be considered elective surgical cases and will be required to wait for years in pain for a replacement as any minority or newly arrived foreigner in need of the same procedure will go to the head of the Queue .A middle class white person over sixty with heart problems who also needs a hip or knee replaced will be relegated to the infinite queue and never get one and If the joint pain gets too bad there is always the inexpensive way out .

The cost of a procedure will be subjected to an critical review by government 'bean counters' who will evaluate the cost over age vs the overall health of the patient.

Computer programs will be developed to establish who will receive medical care based on overall health vs age parameters . Heart and lung cases will be especially scrutinized for costs vs age and anyone in the working classes who need a replacement organ better have large personal financial resources .

I had read today that the original social security program started in nineteen thirty five established
the minimum age to collect as two years longer than the life expectancy of the time and the vast majority of those who joined and paid into the program were never expected to live long enough to collect a cent.

Governments haven't the slightest real interest in your health and medical needs and they only exist only to propagate,protect and expand themselves .The 'bright stars ' in Washington have determined that there is money to be had by dismantling the Americas health system and redirecting the funds toward more political rewarding endeavors . The 'rape of America' as we knew it goes on !!

Rockntractor
06-29-2009, 09:29 PM
If ,GOD forbid ,this pig of a health care bill is rammed through by Pelosi and Reid the first thing that will happen is medical rationing of senior medical needs.They will shut down Medicare and shift the resources to Obama Care.The AMA and the rest of the health industry's are against this as it will dilute the medical industry's profits.

The waiting lists for any procedure will stretch out towards infinity .Canadas medical system is a good example of how it will work or the UK's system is an even better example .They will have to import doctors from Pakistan or Bangladesh who will work under a 'caste system' of patients for fixed fees and an a heavy established patient case load. .

People who's hip and knee joints wearout will be considered elective surgical cases and will be required to wait for years in pain for a replacement as any minority or newly arrived foreigner in need of the same procedure will go to the head of the Queue .A middle class white person over sixty with heart problems who also needs a hip or knee replaced will be relegated to the infinite queue and never get one and If the joint pain gets too bad there is always the inexpensive way out .

The cost of a procedure will be subjected to an critical review by government 'bean counters' who will evaluate the cost over age vs the overall health of the patient.

Computer programs will be developed to establish who will receive medical care based on overall health vs age parameters . Heart and lung cases will be especially scrutinized for costs vs age and anyone in the working classes who need a replacement organ better have large personal financial resources .

I had read today that the original social security program started in nineteen thirty five established
the minimum age to collect as two years longer than the life expectancy of the time and the vast majority of those who joined and paid into the program were never expected to live long enough to collect a cent.

Governments haven't the slightest real interest in your health and medical needs and they only exist only to propagate,protect and expand themselves .The 'bright stars ' in Washington have determined that there is money to be had by dismantling the Americas health system and redirecting the funds toward more political rewarding endeavors . The 'rape of America' as we knew it goes on !!

I agree Mr.Moo. Noonie basically said she was socially liberal but she doesn't want the government in healthcare or private industry either.

Rockntractor
06-29-2009, 09:32 PM
It's not going to end there either. wait till the first 16 year old girl is forced by the government to have an abortion.It's going to happen!

megimoo
06-29-2009, 09:46 PM
It's not going to end there either. wait till the first 16 year old girl is forced by the government to have an abortion.It's going to happen!At some point in this madness I would expect the people of this Nation to say to Washington 'enough is enough' but then again we have become a nation of little Socially Liberal/Progressive sheep !

Rockntractor
06-29-2009, 09:51 PM
At some point in this madness I would expect the people of this Nation to say to Washington 'enough is enough' but then again we have become a nation of little Socially Liberal/Progressive sheep !


I don't see any major uprising in the future. There may be a few disturbences but I think they have won. I don't see anything big comeing out of these tea parties. We even name things like little girls.

megimoo
06-29-2009, 10:01 PM
I don't see any major uprising in the future. There may be a few disturbences but I think they have won. I don't see anything big comeing out of these tea parties. We even name things like little girls.

Rushing Ahead In Health Care Wonderland THOMAS SOWELL

Most political and media discussions of medical care have an air of unreality reminiscent of Alice in Wonderland. There is an abundance of catch-phrases but remarkably few coherent arguments.
Let's start at square one. Why is there alarm about American medical care? The most usual reason given is because its cost is high and rising.

That is certainly true. We were not spending nearly as much on high-tech medical procedures in the past because there were not nearly as many of them. And we weren't spending anything at all on some of the new pharmaceutical drugs because they didn't exist.

snip

Benefit Fairy
We would like to have all these things without the rising costs that come with them. But only with medical care is such wishful thinking taken seriously, with government regarded as a sort of fairy godmother who will give us the benefits without the costs.

A cynic is said to be someone who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. If so, then it is political cynicism to point to other countries that spend less on medical care, including some countries where there is "universal health care" provided "free" by their governments.

Cheaper For A Reason
Just as medical care, houses and cars were all cheaper when they lacked things that they have today, so medical care in other countries is cheaper when they lack many things that are more readily available in the United States.

There are more than four times as many magnetic resonance imaging units (MRIs) per capita in the United States as in Britain or Canada, where there are government-run medical systems. There are more than twice as many CT scanners per capita in the United States as in Canada and more than four times as many per capita as in Britain.Is it surprising that such things cost money?


The cost of developing a new pharmaceutical drug is now about a billion dollars. Neither political rhetoric nor government bureaucracies will make those costs go away.
We can, of course, refuse to pay these and other medical costs, just as we can refuse to buy air-conditioned homes with built-in microwave ovens. But that just means we pay attention only to prices and not to the value of what we get for those prices....
snip


http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=331170744431000

Rockntractor
06-29-2009, 10:07 PM
And don't forget the lawyers. We must keep the swarm of lawyers fed!

satanica
06-30-2009, 08:53 AM
OMG.

You guys think Obama is gonna hand out suicide pills to save on health care costs.

The single dumbest thing ever posted on the intertubes.

Come to Chicago and tell people on the street this ...I dare you.

noonwitch
06-30-2009, 10:16 AM
It's not going to end there either. wait till the first 16 year old girl is forced by the government to have an abortion.It's going to happen!


If I had gotten pregnant at 16, my mother would have tried to force me to have an abortion. I would have had to either petition the court to stop her, or played the Dad card against her.

For the government to use health care as a way to force any woman to get an abortion, they'd have to ensure that a whole lot of potential protestors would be out of the way, first. I'm a prochoice feminist, but I don't think anyone should be forced to have an abortion. I'd protest if a government health plan forced women to have abortions.

djones520
06-30-2009, 10:21 AM
OMG.

You guys think Obama is gonna hand out suicide pills to save on health care costs.

The single dumbest thing ever posted on the intertubes.

Come to Chicago and tell people on the street this ...I dare you.

How about the streets of Portland? Now, I know with the way that this Administration is just throwing money away, it could seem like they'll spare no expenses in providing Health Care, but your honestly fooling yourself if you think that a national health care plan ran by this beast of a beuaracracy is going to work any better, or quicker then our current health care system.

You'd be amazed at the amount of hoops we have to jump through in the military to get the money to get a new desk. Joe Schmoe trying to explain his need for a new hip, or chemotherapy? You have fun with that.

Milly
06-30-2009, 11:34 AM
I would separate the "culture war" over what is considered appropriate entertainment or over individual morality regarding sexuality from an argument over government control of health care/GM/etc. Mainly, I would separate them because a lot of people who are liberal on social issues are not very comfortable with the government running businesses and banks, or completely managing health care for all americans.

I agree with Witch on this one. Actually, being socially liberal and fiscally conservative is not inconsistant and makes a lot of sense. Both positions, at their base, have the same source:

FREEDOM

It's none of my business what other people do in their own bedrooms as long as they don't require me to pay for the fall-out from it. This would be exercising their freedoms at the expense of mine.

As an Ancient History professor of mine used to say, "In Greece, the concept of civil rights was tied to the concept of civil responsibilities". We seem to have lost sight of this original pairing, huh?

linda22003
06-30-2009, 11:37 AM
I'm with Noonwitch and Milly.

Constitutionally Speaking
06-30-2009, 12:19 PM
Whats gonna change ?


My rights as a stockholder to hire and fire the Corporate officers of the companies I hold stock in. (already been usurped by Obama)

My rights under contract law to the terms of the bond offerings, where I sacrificed a higher rate of return in exchange for the right to be paid off FIRST - before all others - in the event of bankruptcy. (already usurped by Obama)

My rights to drill for oil as a company that already leased land for that purpose ( already rescinded by the Obama administration)

My right to private health care (in the process of being destroyed)

My right to oppose this government (look up Obama's OWN WORDS saying he is trying to implement "preventative detention" centers) Thought crimes are soon to be real - if this administration has it's way.

The Coal industry's right to exist - see Obama's comments where he says he will destroy the coal industry.

satanica
06-30-2009, 03:54 PM
Tell your mom to stop calling me, that whore wants some more meat.

Rockntractor
06-30-2009, 04:07 PM
Tell your mom to stop calling me, that whore wants some more meat.

Are you 12 years old or what!

djones520
06-30-2009, 04:11 PM
Tell your mom to stop calling me, that whore wants some more meat.

OH SHIT! You got all E Thug on her ass!

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i288/The_Game21/E-thug2.jpg

Constitutionally Speaking
07-01-2009, 05:39 AM
Tell your mom to stop calling me, that whore wants some more meat.



You do realize that as the moderators we ARE trying to let you debate here - and you refuse to actually debate. I have NOT insulted you or attacked you personally - yet as soon as you are presented with factual evidence you resort to childish retorts.

Come on, grow up.

CorwinK
07-04-2009, 01:08 PM
I don't see any major uprising in the future. There may be a few disturbences but I think they have won. I don't see anything big comeing out of these tea parties. We even name things like little girls.

The question in all of this isnt whether or not anyone has 'won'. Its a question of when people are going to draw a line and say 'no further'. I for one was pissed off when the government passed the patriot act under the Bush administration...and I was only in high school...but 3 people marching on Washington isnt going to get didly squat done except get those 3 people thrown in jail.

How many more violations of the constitution have to occur before people say 'this far and no further!' and at what point will they say that, and have big brother rebuttal 'well you never said anything before...why now?'.

any sort of armed rebellion would rip this country apart to the point that I dont know if we would ever recover from it when it was over. However, even the most ugly of actions are necessary at times. Even though it would be a division of about 60% who dont care and just want it over...and 20% each on the opposing sides doing the fighting, the divisions would leave a more stark contrast than the war between 1860 and 1864. The military would be torn in two...all depending on how each individual member views the oath they swore and where the emphasis in that oath lies.

"I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic" or "...and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me" Where does the emphasis lie? some would say in the first part because it comes first in the oath...some would say the president because we as a nation now chose him and weren't around to approve or disapprove of the constitution (despite swearing to defend it).

History is starting to repeat itself, its simply moving in a new fashion. Think back to the Boston Massacre. This was simply another episode in a series of protests over the Townshend Acts, the difference being that British troops killed 5 colonists this time.

People are starting to protest more and more frequently through tea parties and many other outlets...how long before someone decides to raid a census center, destroying census forms for a section of a state in protest of its use? (think to the original tea party...destruction of tea to avoid paying taxes on it).

How long before citizens stand on the lawn of their federal/ state buildings in direct violation to the laws banning the open carry of anything larger than a pistol? Or laws prohibiting the carry of personal firearms on federal/state property? (depending on your state...and for historical reference, Lexington and Concord, British troops moving to Concord to destroy stockpiles of arms and ammunition)

How long before state governments say that the federal government has overstepped its bounds and decide to leave? (current state succession movements clearly identifying the former...South Carolina, December 20, 1860 for the latter)

How long before churches decide that their faith is worth fighting for as much as fanatical Muslims do? It wouldn't be the first time the church did that. (the crusades...need I say more)



At what point will people in this country realize that history is repeating itself? The media cant hide that, you cannot erase the past (not yet anyway, keep your shirt on BB). At what point America will you draw that proverbial line in the sand and say"'this far and no further...matter of fact, back it up a few paces!" ? When will this country stop with its petty racial and religious squabbles and stand united against the obviously greater evil? When are we going to realize that our first amendment right to free speech was created to protect unpopular speech and start exercising it by saying what needs to be said publicly?

As soon as the numbers are there...things will happen Rockntractor. Just as soon as there are enough numbers to where the media wont have anything they can say to disillusion the population as to the importance of what is going on. Ladies and gentleman please study your history for a road map of things to come, maybe then we wont all be so damn surprised anymore.

Rockntractor
07-04-2009, 01:29 PM
Until I see a serious attempt to group conservatives together in a new party I have no hope. The Republican party is done. Stick a fork in it. Sarah resigning from office is more evidence of that. The republicans stopped being conservative a long time ago, Reagan was just an interlude. There is no party in existence today to fill our need. It is time for someone with power and influence to start a conservative party.

Elspeth
07-04-2009, 01:38 PM
I'm with Noonwitch and Milly.

Me three. (or four, I guess)

CorwinK
07-04-2009, 01:57 PM
Until I see a serious attempt to group conservatives together in a new party I have no hope. The Republican party is done. Stick a fork in it. Sarah resigning from office is more evidence of that. The republicans stopped being conservative a long time ago, Reagan was just an interlude. There is no party in existence today to fill our need. It is time for someone with power and influence to start a conservative party.

please bear in mind before I say this man that this isnt intended to be a personal attack...don't take it as such.


Whats stopping you from doing something then? Your right, the majority of Republican party members don't represent conservative values. Gov. Palin's resignation (which i just found out about today...damn the navy and their bandwidth sharing so I cant read news out to sea) leaves more questions than can be answered at the moment...gotta see how that one plays out. The representatives of the conservative base in our country don't do there job (most of them anyway).

Go do something about it! Run for office, form your own 'party' for lack of a better term, lead continual protests. I'm bound by contract for the time being so I physically cannot do that without facing severe disciplinary action...plus i'm not old enough by the constitution to run for office, however I still do what I can within the constraints of my job by educating everyone I come in contact with...engaging in factual debate in semi-public forums where even if I wind up getting yelled at by my chain of command for my views, (which has happened on more than one occasion) I leave the mess decks with more and more people nodding in agreement. Whats stopping all of you? We all get together and bitch, but with all the minds iv'e read on this through posts, theres enough intelligence and forethought in the prominent members of this forum to start making a difference, what is stopping us?

The revolution started when a handful of men got together and said that enough was enough, the only difference here that I see is that we aren't sitting across a table from one another. Any change is going to have to start at the grassroots level...people in power aren't going to change the status quo. Im sure that most of us have families...I myself got engaged on the 28th of June...but is it better to have your family and not be free, or to take the gamble for freedom for the betterment of the nation as a whole?

Rockntractor
07-04-2009, 02:11 PM
please bear in mind before I say this man that this isnt intended to be a personal attack...don't take it as such.


Whats stopping you from doing something then? Your right, the majority of Republican party members don't represent conservative values. Gov. Palin's resignation (which i just found out about today...damn the navy and their bandwidth sharing so I cant read news out to sea) leaves more questions than can be answered at the moment...gotta see how that one plays out. The representatives of the conservative base in our country don't do there job (most of them anyway).

Go do something about it! Run for office, form your own 'party' for lack of a better term, lead continual protests. I'm bound by contract for the time being so I physically cannot do that without facing severe disciplinary action...plus i'm not old enough by the constitution to run for office, however I still do what I can within the constraints of my job by educating everyone I come in contact with...engaging in factual debate in semi-public forums where even if I wind up getting yelled at by my chain of command for my views, (which has happened on more than one occasion) I leave the mess decks with more and more people nodding in agreement. Whats stopping all of you? We all get together and bitch, but with all the minds iv'e read on this through posts, theres enough intelligence and forethought in the prominent members of this forum to start making a difference, what is stopping us?

The revolution started when a handful of men got together and said that enough was enough, the only difference here that I see is that we aren't sitting across a table from one another. Any change is going to have to start at the grassroots level...people in power aren't going to change the status quo. Im sure that most of us have families...I myself got engaged on the 28th of June...but is it better to have your family and not be free, or to take the gamble for freedom for the betterment of the nation as a whole?
It will take someone with better than a 10'th grade education. I am better suited to follower than leader. We need some goods with less damage than me. My closet is like fibber McGee’s with all the skeletons in it.

Rockntractor
07-04-2009, 03:22 PM
What would we name such a party?

AlmostThere
07-04-2009, 08:12 PM
It will take someone with better than a 10'th grade education.

That statement strikes me as a helluva lot more intelligent than most of the crap we hear from politicians. Sir, you are selling yourself short.

Rockntractor
07-04-2009, 08:35 PM
That statement strikes me as a helluva lot more intelligent than most of the crap we hear from politicians. Sir, you are selling yourself short.
This is why it is so sad the way we are losing Sarah. I knew she wasn't a genious. Just an average woman that knew the difference between right and wrong. The constitution has everything needed to run the country perfectly . It takes no great mind to follow it. What takes genious is dealing with the sharks in the media and the radical left in this country. When a country defies common sense and hates the people who exersize it, what hope have we?

AlmostThere
07-04-2009, 11:07 PM
Maybe wishful thinking but I don't think we are losing her. In Alaska she was nothing but a sitting target racking up hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees. Just being Gov she was doing more for the left than she was for the right. Don't forget, the left will just attack relentlessly until the mindless in America believe their message regardless of the truth. Being out of the spotlight will slow down the attack. It won't stop it, but it will slow it down. I really don't think we've seen the last of Sarah.