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satanica
07-02-2009, 09:07 AM
The republicans are always crying about the free market.

They are nothing but liars. Reagan brought us the Plunge Protection Team, the biggest blow to the free markets EVER.

Reagan hated the free market and wanted to control and regulate the market instead of embracing free market principles. Another lying fraud.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?aid=13773&context=va

satanica
07-02-2009, 09:34 AM
Thats right fools. Reagan HATED THE FREE MARKET.

Reagan/Bush never believed in the free market, they just told a lie and the idiots in this nation believed them.

Rockntractor
07-02-2009, 09:34 AM
The republicans are always crying about the free market.

They are nothing but liars. Reagan brought us the Plunge Protection Team, the biggest blow to the free markets EVER.

Reagan hated the free market and wanted to control and regulate the market instead of embracing free market principles. Another lying fraud.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?aid=13773&context=va
Looks like our special needs members are back.
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/brain_fart.gif?t=1246541572

Lars1701a
07-02-2009, 09:37 AM
Thats right fools. Reagan HATED THE FREE MARKET.

Reagan/Bush never believed in the free market, they just told a lie and the idiots in this nation believed them.

You dont have to be over the top with your doucheness


You dont have to try so hard.

Texas Terrier
07-02-2009, 09:39 AM
The republicans are always crying about the free market.

They are nothing but liars. Reagan brought us the Plunge Protection Team, the biggest blow to the free markets EVER.

Reagan hated the free market and wanted to control and regulate the market instead of embracing free market principles. Another lying fraud.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?aid=13773&context=va

I've heard some bullshit before, but this one takes the cake.
Something tells me you have a poster of Jimmy Carter in your bedroom. :eek:

satanica
07-02-2009, 09:40 AM
You dont have to be over the top with your doucheness

It's the truth.

I can't stand it when the republicans lie and the right wing just eats it up like it's the truth.

Reagan is a fraud that gave the country the largest tax INCREASE IN THE NATIONS HISTORY, and wanted to regulate the free market.

The repubs praised him for having a free market and cutting taxes...WTF ?

Rebel Yell
07-02-2009, 09:40 AM
Thats right fools. Reagan HATED THE FREE MARKET.

Reagan/Bush never believed in the free market, they just told a lie and the idiots in this nation believed them.


Low Forum Frustration Tolerance (a.k.a. The Frantic Browser Reloader)


This is the guy who makes a new thread, knowing he's just written the absolutely perfect post. A post that should be heralded across the Internet for its beauty, comedy and insight. It is such a good post that the guy is checking every five seconds to see if there is a new response. If he gets a response he quickly dashes out his own reply that will appear half a second later.

If there are no responses to his perfect post then he will wait an eternity of five minutes before replying to his own thread with, "What, nobody has a comment? Helloooo???"


I think I just diagnosed you with the first 2 posts of this thread. I'll mail the bill your insurer, 1600 Pennsylvania Ave, right?

satanica
07-02-2009, 09:44 AM
I've heard some bullshit before, but this one takes the cake.
Something tells me you have a poster of Jimmy Carter in your bedroom. :eek:


If he believed in the free market, why did he sign and executive order giving a secret team control over the free market ?

FeebMaster
07-02-2009, 10:21 AM
Everyone hates the free market.

Texas Terrier
07-02-2009, 10:28 AM
Quote from Ronald Reagan:

"We who live in free market societies believe that growth, prosperity and ultimately human fulfillment, are created from the bottom up, not the government down. Only when the human spirit is allowed to invent and create, only when individuals are given a personal stake in deciding economic policies and benefiting from their success -- only then can societies remain economically alive, dynamic, progressive, and free. Trust the people. This is the one irrefutable lesson of the entire postwar period contradicting the notion that rigid government controls are essential to economic development.”"

http://thinkexist.com/quotation/we_who_live_in_free_market_societies_believe_that/338211.html

satanica
07-02-2009, 10:29 AM
Everyone hates the free market.

Then why do repubs keep praising the free market ?

And why do they cry about regulation getting in the way of the free market ?

For gods sake, just google Milton Friedman and Chicago school of economics

Rockntractor
07-02-2009, 10:34 AM
Then why do repubs keep praising the free market ?

And why do they cry about regulation getting in the way of the free market ?

For gods sake, just google Milton Friedman and Chicago school of economics

Just loosen your helmet and take your meds!

FeebMaster
07-02-2009, 10:35 AM
Then why do repubs keep praising the free market ?

And why do they cry about regulation getting in the way of the free market ?

For gods sake, just google Milton Friedman and Chicago school of economics


It's how they get elected.

Molon Labe
07-02-2009, 10:43 AM
If he believed in the free market, why did he sign and executive order giving a secret team control over the free market ?

Good for you....you've pointed out some of Reagan's hypocrisy, now can you use that same laser like precision to point out Obama's. You identify a problem but all you do is flame and troll the forum. How's your boy going to fix it?

He's not going to. He doesn't give a rats ass about you. He has no clue that collectivism leads to tyranny.
He's a Statist Democrat. That's all. All he cares about is growing the state. No different than McCain would have done or Bushy before him.

Maybe you're just to ingornat and blind to see that he's managed to screw every one who voted for him ( and even more so...all of us who didn't) so far with nearly every exective action he takes. He's lied to his constiuency and even worse he's going to continue to wreck this country.

Fix the economy? Right! By hiring the former administration idiots like Geitner? Who was the engineer of the first TARP. LOL! (http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=2333)

Socialism? Right! How about statist fascism (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/10/opinion/10krugman.html?th&emc=th)

No bailouts for corporations? Right! (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/12/06/business/main4651796.shtml)

Foreign Policy Hope and Change? Right!.... What? with advisors from the previous administration? LOL! (http://www.ips.org/blog/jimlobe/?p=215)

Move troops out of Iraq? Right! (http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:Kvdx4E5SefgJ:www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2009/02/obama_addresses_6.html+%22Well,+what+I+would+say+t hat+is+that+they+maybe+weren%27t+paying+attention+ to+what+I+said+during+the+campaign%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us)

Not a dimes worth of change has occurred in his first 6 months. Get a clue! Socialism - Collectivism - Fascism - Tyranny...whatever you want to call it.



|------------|---------------|---------------|---------------|-You are here----|-----------|
Tyranny --> Revolution --> Freedom --> Prosperity --> Dependency ---> Tyranny

lacarnut
07-02-2009, 10:48 AM
Then why do repubs keep praising the free market ?

And why do they cry about regulation getting in the way of the free market ?

For gods sake, just google Milton Friedman and Chicago school of economics

Why are you so obsessed with what has happened in the past? Probably to cover up how bad the Magic Negro's has screwed up things. Let's see:

467,000 jobs lost in the month of May. Note, O promised us hope and change.
Unemployment at 9.5%. The highest in 26 years.
A loss of 1.5 million jobs since Jan 1.
Tripled the national debt in 5 months.
Nationalized banks along with 2 Auto mfg. Gunning for a governmental takeover of the health care industry.
Cap and trade if passed will cost thousands of jobs and increase taxes dramatically.

I understand why a dummie like you would want to change the goalposts. Obama has screwed the pooch and it's only going to get worse. He is going to make Jimmy Carter look like a piker.

Sonnabend
07-02-2009, 10:50 AM
He is going to make Jimmy Carter look like a piker

"Going to?

Molon Labe
07-02-2009, 10:57 AM
Update:

He is looking more like Carter. All he needs now is a southern drawl.

Payrolls Fall, Unemployment rises: (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=ahfK709b4uds) Where's all the Stimulus?

satanica
07-02-2009, 10:57 AM
Quote from Ronald Reagan:

"We who live in free market societies believe that growth, prosperity and ultimately human fulfillment, are created from the bottom up, not the government down.

Then why did he give the nation the largest tax increase in history ? ..and why did he explode the national debt and federal spending ?


Trust the people. This is the one irrefutable lesson of the entire postwar period contradicting the notion that rigid government controls are essential to economic development.”"

Then why did he impose ridged controls over the Stock Market ? ...why not let the free market work like he says in this quote ?

He may have said these words, but history shows us he did the exact opposite.

He gave us the largest government we had ever seen, spending just exploded, borrowing exploded, he created a secret team to manipulate the free market, let me repeat that last one ...HE CREATED A SECRET TEAM TO MANIPULATE THE FREE MARKET.

The quote you posted only shows what a liar he was.

http://thinkexist.com/quotation/we_who_live_in_free_market_societies_believe_that/338211.html[/QUOTE]

Sonnabend
07-02-2009, 10:59 AM
BDS, RDS and a foul mouth.

Man, does this guy need miedication...:rolleyes:

lacarnut
07-02-2009, 10:59 AM
"Going to?

Well, we have not gotten to 18% interest rates on mortgages and run away inflation yet. Don't tell that to the liberal dunces on this board. When it hits them in the pocketbook, it will be someone Else's fault. Could not possibly be the insane policies of the lunatics in the W.H.

satanica
07-02-2009, 11:05 AM
Why are you so obsessed with what has happened in the past? Probably to cover up how bad the Magic Negro's has screwed up things. Let's see:

467,000 jobs lost in the month of May. Note, O promised us hope and change.
Unemployment at 9.5%. The highest in 26 years.
A loss of 1.5 million jobs since Jan 1.
Tripled the national debt in 5 months.
Nationalized banks along with 2 Auto mfg. Gunning for a governmental takeover of the health care industry.
Cap and trade if passed will cost thousands of jobs and increase taxes dramatically.

I understand why a dummie like you would want to change the goalposts. Obama has screwed the pooch and it's only going to get worse. He is going to make Jimmy Carter look like a piker.

Do you understand that Bush handed Obama a massive financial crisis that put the entire nation at risk ?

Do you understand that Obama has only been in office for 6 months ?

And when I see idiots like you claim Obama has tripled the national debt it makes me laugh. The national debt was around 11 trillion when Bush left office, are you now telling me that the national debt is now over 30 trillion ? ...how fucking stupid are you ...no really , tell me how stupid you are ....

Molon Labe
07-02-2009, 11:14 AM
Do you understand that Bush handed Obama a massive financial crisis that put the entire nation at risk ?

Do you understand that Obama has only been in office for 6 months ?

And when I see idiots like you claim Obama has tripled the national debt it makes me laugh. The national debt was around 11 trillion when Bush left office, are you now telling me that the national debt is now over 30 trillion ? ...how fucking stupid are you ...no really , tell me how stupid you are ....

Bush isn't the sole blame for the financial cirisis. He has his part in the blame, but let's not be ignorant of what caused this mess.
There are certain things Obama could have done right off the bat to end this crisis quickly within a year or so and lessen the pain and rot. But it's not in his nature to do those things. You'll see. The entire economy will be crashing down if he continues on his course. It's really quite sad.



B]HE CREATED A SECRET TEAM TO MANIPULATE THE FREE MARKET.[/B]

Hey your'e right. Reagan has alot ot answer for with regards to letting down on the free markets. Most politicians can never deliver and are hypocritical. Why Bush said that he had to abandon free market principles to save them. It's nonsense.

So now tell me how your boy is holding true to his principles. I'm dying to know.

http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt25/MolonLabe10/0000048.gif?t=1246547331

Texas Terrier
07-02-2009, 11:17 AM
Do you understand that Bush handed Obama a massive financial crisis that put the entire nation at risk ?

Do you understand that Obama has only been in office for 6 months ?

And when I see idiots like you claim Obama has tripled the national debt it makes me laugh. The national debt was around 11 trillion when Bush left office, are you now telling me that the national debt is now over 30 trillion ? ...how fucking stupid are you ...no really , tell me how stupid you are ....

http://binky.bgonet.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/shithead.jpg

satanica
07-02-2009, 11:23 AM
http://binky.bgonet.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/shithead.jpg

So, I made 3 claims there.

1. Obama was handed a crisis

2. That Obama was only in office 6 months

3. The national debt was not tripled.

I would assume you think one of these points is not accurate, please point out what you disagree with.

I predict you will do no such thing, cause you are a uniformed idiot that only knows how to post childish pictures....

Waiting ...

Can you debate ? ...

Or will you just play childish games ? ..

I think we all know what will happen, you will ignore the 3 points I posted... 100% chance of that.

Molon Labe
07-02-2009, 11:26 AM
I predict you will do no such thing, cause you are a uniformed idiot that only knows how to post childish pictures....

Waiting ...

Can you debate ? ...

Or will you just play childish games ? ..

I think we all know what will happen, you will ignore the 3 points I posted... 100% chance of that.

Kettle, meet Pot.

lacarnut
07-02-2009, 11:36 AM
Do you understand that Bush handed Obama a massive financial crisis that put the entire nation at risk ?

Do you understand that Obama has only been in office for 6 months ?

And when I see idiots like you claim Obama has tripled the national debt it makes me laugh. The national debt was around 11 trillion when Bush left office, are you now telling me that the national debt is now over 30 trillion ? ...how fucking stupid are you ...no really , tell me how stupid you are ....

In 8 years, Bush increased the national debt by 5 trillion. Obama will raise it to 1.8 trillion this year alone. Obama projections are to double the national debt to over 22 trillion in 10 years. That does not include health care. If that is included, it will tack on another billion. That's how you get to tripling the national debt dumb ass under an idiot like the O. It is called a projection , moron.

Raising the national debt !.8 trillion dollars for 2009 is not something this country can sustain without going broke. Do you understand that? You elevator does not even get off the mezzanine

Molon Labe
07-02-2009, 11:50 AM
I call B.S

1.. Obama was handed a crisis

Who created the crisis again? (http://www.takimag.com/article/did_somebody_say_capitalism/)

2. That Obama was only in office 6 months

Wasn't Bush blamed for 9-11? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_advanced-knowledge_debate#Intelligence_warnings)

3. The national debt was not tripled.

Right! :rolleyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5yxFtTwDcc&feature=channel_page

I would assume you think one of these points is not accurate, please point out what you disagree with.

I predict you will do no such thing, cause you are a uniformed idiot that only knows how to post childish pictures

lacarnut
07-02-2009, 12:02 PM
I call B.S

1.. Obama was handed a crisis

Who created the crisis again? (http://www.takimag.com/article/did_somebody_say_capitalism/)

2. That Obama was only in office 6 months

Wasn't Bush blamed for 9-11? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_advanced-knowledge_debate#Intelligence_warnings)

3. The national debt was not tripled.

Right! :rolleyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5yxFtTwDcc&feature=channel_page

I would assume you think one of these points is not accurate, please point out what you disagree with.

I predict you will do no such thing, cause you are a uniformed idiot that only knows how to post childish pictures

Even a dummie like Satanica should be able to follow a chart. Add in cap and trade and health care and you will be going around 200 miles per hour which is more than triples the 64 mph under Bush. Even a dumb ass should be able to understand it.

satanica
07-02-2009, 12:06 PM
In 8 years, Bush increased the national debt by 5 trillion.

Agree. well...probably closer to 6, but for debates sake, I will agree.


Obama will raise it to 1.8 trillion this year alone

If the national debt was 5 trillion, and Bush doubled it to 10 trillion , How could Obama raise it to 1.8 trillion ?

First off, take a moment to google these words .. 'National debt' ..and ... "Fiscal deficit"

Because you don't seem to know the difference between them.

Second off, If Bush handed Obama a fiscal deficit of 1.3 trillion , and you claim Obama has made it 1.8 trillion .. "tripled the national debt"

satanica
07-02-2009, 12:08 PM
I call B.S

1.. Obama was handed a crisis

Who created the crisis again? (http://www.takimag.com/article/did_somebody_say_capitalism/)

2. That Obama was only in office 6 months

Wasn't Bush blamed for 9-11? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_advanced-knowledge_debate#Intelligence_warnings)

3. The national debt was not tripled.

Right! :rolleyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5yxFtTwDcc&feature=channel_page

I would assume you think one of these points is not accurate, please point out what you disagree with.

I predict you will do no such thing, cause you are a uniformed idiot that only knows how to post childish pictures


Hey, the claim was "tripled the national debt"

This is a lie, you are defnding a lie. Obama has not trilpled the national debt. This is fact you idiots.

satanica
07-02-2009, 12:11 PM
I call B.S

1.. Obama was handed a crisis

Who created the crisis again? (http://www.takimag.com/article/did_somebody_say_capitalism/)

2. That Obama was only in office 6 months

Wasn't Bush blamed for 9-11? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_advanced-knowledge_debate#Intelligence_warnings)

3. The national debt was not tripled.

Right! :rolleyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5yxFtTwDcc&feature=channel_page

I would assume you think one of these points is not accurate, please point out what you disagree with.

I predict you will do no such thing, cause you are a uniformed idiot that only knows how to post childish pictures

How radical is this place, here is a perfect example..

I said Obama was handed a financial crisis. This ding bat says no.

Ya, OK ...Obama wasn't handed a crisis ...WTF ? ..How stupid are you guys ?

lacarnut
07-02-2009, 12:22 PM
Agree. well...probably closer to 6, but for debates sake, I will agree.



If the national debt was 5 trillion, and Bush doubled it to 10 trillion , How could Obama raise it to 1.8 trillion ?

First off, take a moment to google these words .. 'National debt' ..and ... "Fiscal deficit"

Because you don't seem to know the difference between them.

Second off, If Bush handed Obama a fiscal deficit of 1.3 trillion , and you claim Obama has made it 1.8 trillion .. "tripled the national debt"

Investorsinsight.com/.../obama-on-course-to-double-national-debt will explain it to you. Note, cap and trade and health care costs are not included.

satanica
07-02-2009, 12:40 PM
Investorsinsight.com/.../obama-on-course-to-double-national-debt will explain it to you. Note, cap and trade and health care costs are not included.

Thats better, you are learning.

The claim was "tripled the national debt"

You are now saying it is a PROJECTION that he will DOUBLE the national debt in the future.

The original statement isn't even close to the one you back peddled to.

And if you recall, the repubs said the very same thing when Clinton passed his deficit reduction plan , and not one of them voted for it ...it then produced the largest surpluses ever.

Your credibility was lost in the early 1990's ...twenty years later you guys are still holding on to a fantasy and defnding lies.

Texas Terrier
07-02-2009, 12:46 PM
How radical is this place, here is a perfect example..

I said Obama was handed a financial crisis. This ding bat says no.

Ya, OK ...Obama wasn't handed a crisis ...WTF ? ..How stupid are you guys ?

Let me become more civil, and post some facts that are kind of hard to overlook instead of posting a picture of what I think about you.

In January President Obama pressed for an $800 billion economic “stimulus” package to turn the economy around. Though the bill largely consisted of increased spending on traditional liberal priorities the President claimed that it would “create or save” 3.5 million jobs. The President’s economic advisors predicted that unemployment would rise to 9 percent by 2010 if Congress did not pass the stimulus bill, but that with the stimulus unemployment would stay below 8 percentage points.

http://blog.heritage.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/foundry_recovery_plan_full.jpg

lcontinue reading (http://blog.heritage.org/?s=Unemployment)

satanica
07-02-2009, 12:49 PM
Yes, Obama passed the stimulus, and it ISN'T creating the jobs as expected, I agree, the President agrees.

But how does that prove Obama wasn't handed a financial crisis ?

For gods sake, the graph you posted says "recovery" right on it ...What are we recovering from ? ..A financial crisis that was handed to Obama ? ...Think before you act , jeeesh, the stupid hurts.

Teetop
07-02-2009, 01:04 PM
Satan's jiiz is Timothy "Turbo Tax" Geithner?

http://therealbarackobama.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/geithner-timothy-sell-now.jpg

Molon Labe
07-02-2009, 01:15 PM
Yes, Obama passed the stimulus, and it ISN'T creating the jobs as expected, I agree, the President agrees.

But how does that prove Obama wasn't handed a financial crisis ?

For gods sake, the graph you posted says "recovery" right on it ...What are we recovering from ? ..A financial crisis that was handed to Obama ? ...Think before you act , jeeesh, the stupid hurts.

The government cannot "create" anything. They can only take from those that create.

You're not doing too well with defending him.Playing word games and numbe games with the debt is petty. The debt is still a fiasco.

Name one nation that has spent itself into prosperity. You cannot base an economy on consumption and sustain prosperity. Obama does not get this (http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/169781/Peter-Schiff-Stimulus-Bill-Will-Lead-to-%22Unmitigated-Disaster%22?tickers=%5Edji,%5Egspc,QQQQ,SPY,DIA,TL T,UDN) We don't make anything anymore here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuIYdN2Ag_E

satanica
07-02-2009, 01:19 PM
The government cannot "create" anything. They can only take from those that create.

You're not doing too well with defending him.Playing word games and numbe games with the debt is petty. The debt is still a fiasco.

Name one nation that has spent itself into prosperity. You cannot base an economy on consumption and sustain prosperity. Obama does not get this (http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/169781/Peter-Schiff-Stimulus-Bill-Will-Lead-to-%22Unmitigated-Disaster%22?tickers=%5Edji,%5Egspc,QQQQ,SPY,DIA,TL T,UDN) We don't make anything anymore here.

How does your post prove Obama wasn't handed a crisis ?

Jeeesh, am I in the Twlight Zone ?

lacarnut
07-02-2009, 01:20 PM
Thats better, you are learning.

The claim was "tripled the national debt"

You are now saying it is a PROJECTION that he will DOUBLE the national debt in the future.

The original statement isn't even close to the one you back peddled to.

And if you recall, the repubs said the very same thing when Clinton passed his deficit reduction plan , and not one of them voted for it ...it then produced the largest surpluses ever.

Your credibility was lost in the early 1990's ...twenty years later you guys are still holding on to a fantasy and defnding lies.

You are not too swift on math sparky. With cap and trade and health care added, it will be tripled. FYI, those estimates usually wind up on the low side.

satanica
07-02-2009, 01:22 PM
Name one nation that has spent itself into prosperity. .

Wrong question. We are not trying to spend ourselves into "prosperity"

We are trying to prevent the Bush recession from turning into a depression.

The real question is ..."Name ONE country that come out of a recession/depression WITHOUT Government spending."

It has never happened.

satanica
07-02-2009, 01:23 PM
You are not too swift on math sparky. With cap and trade and health care added, it will be tripled. FYI, those estimates usually wind up on the low side.


The repubs said the same thing about Clinton. The exact opposite happened.

They warned his policies would create a even larger deficit ...instead it gave us the largest surplus ever.

Were those estimates on the "low side" ??? LOL.

You have zero cred.

Lager
07-02-2009, 01:24 PM
Since we are going to lengths in order to not mince words, let's make it clear:
Obama wasn't "handed a financial crisis", Obama, campaigned, fought hard for and spent a lot of money in order to win a job that included managing a looming financial crisis. The crisis didn't sprout and bloom simply in the short time between the primaries and the election.

Molon Labe
07-02-2009, 01:26 PM
How does your post prove Obama wasn't handed a crisis ?

Jeeesh, am I in the Twlight Zone ?

He took over while the U.S. was in decline. So...... f'in...... what!
Why is it that I'm supossed to feel sympathy for someone who wanted the job and wanted the problems. After all....

He was ELECTED to fix it.:rolleyes:

That's a key mistake the average stupid voter makes when voting in national elections. They forget who sets the monetary policy and who has actually "regulate" the bad decisions made on wall street and in the banking system. Socialists sure as heck don't get this. You're showing that right now by thinking Obama can actually control the millions of financial transactions that occur every day.

satanica
07-02-2009, 01:33 PM
He took over while the U.S. was in decline. So...... f'in...... what!
Why is it that I'm supossed to feel sympathy for someone who wanted the job and wanted the problems. After all....

He was ELECTED to fix it.:rolleyes:

That's a key mistake the average stupid voter makes when voting in national elections. They forget who sets the monetary policy and who has actually "regulate" the bad decisions made on wall street and in the banking system. Socialists sure as heck don't get this. You're showing that right now by thinking Obama can actually control the millions of financial transactions that occur every day.

I agree.

But to claim there was no crisis before he took office is absurd.

lacarnut
07-02-2009, 01:51 PM
I agree.

But to claim there was no crisis before he took office is absurd.

No one has claimed otherwise. He said he could fix unemployment and the economy. Looks like to me with unemployment going from 5 to 9.5 per cent in 6 months, he has screwed up, and has spent a bunch of money in the process. His words are not matching his performance, and if the economy does not turn around, the Democraps will get the boot.

satanica
07-02-2009, 02:00 PM
No one has claimed otherwise..



I call B.S

1.. Obama was handed a crisis

Who created the crisis again? --Molan labe

OOOPS.

Molon Labe
07-02-2009, 02:00 PM
I agree.

But to claim there was no crisis before he took office is absurd.

But here's what the POTUS "CAN" do to help the economy


- He can do away with all the wasteful Executive departments...starting with Homeland Security, HUD, Interior, Energy, and Education (Just for starters)

- He can use the bully pulpit to demand congress end the reckless federal spending....in ALL areas. That means foreign aid, intervention as well as social and domestic spending. He can can the talk of national health care

- He could have some principles about himself and veto every single spending bill presented to him until this goal is met.

I won't hold my breath that this is gonna happen.

Molon Labe
07-02-2009, 02:01 PM
I call B.S

1.. Obama was handed a crisis

Who created the crisis again? --Molan labe

OOOPS.

Read the link skippy.


Had government not seized so many resources to squander on consumption, those resources would have been available for investment that would have made the economy permanently capable of producing far more wealth than otherwise. Everyone’s standard of living would, as a result, have been far higher.


G O V E R N M E N T

Molon Labe
07-02-2009, 02:04 PM
Wrong question. We are not trying to spend ourselves into "prosperity"

We are trying to prevent the Bush recession from turning into a depression.

The real question is ..."Name ONE country that come out of a recession/depression WITHOUT Government spending."

It has never happened.

Woops...too late.

Constitutionally Speaking
07-02-2009, 02:19 PM
The republicans are always crying about the free market.

They are nothing but liars. Reagan brought us the Plunge Protection Team, the biggest blow to the free markets EVER.

Reagan hated the free market and wanted to control and regulate the market instead of embracing free market principles. Another lying fraud.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?aid=13773&context=va



You are one funny dude!!!! I do hope you are intentionally being stupid so we can all laugh, because otherwise you would just be stupid in a pathetic way.


Here is a chance to redeem yourself, - go back to the healthcare thread where you cited the WHO report and respond to my post there on the flaws in the ranking system they used.

satanica
07-02-2009, 02:49 PM
Why would I respond to Cato Institute talking points regurgitated by a member of CU ?

Molon Labe
07-02-2009, 02:53 PM
We are trying to prevent the Bush recession from turning into a depression.

This is a funny statement. I could have fun with this for days.

This is not the way to do it.

Obama's appropriation bill: (http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2009/06/26/Obama-signs-funding-bill-despite-issues/UPI-87951246051822/) Let me tell you what this does

The appropriations bill sends:
$300 million to Jordan
$310 million to Egypt
$420 million to Mexico
$660 million to Gaza
$555 million to Israel
$889 million to the United Nations for “peace-keeping” missions
$1 billion for the global financial crisis outside U.S. borders
$8 billion to address a potential pandemic flu, which he said could result in mandatory vaccinations “for no discernable reason other than to enrich the pharmaceutical companies.
$108 billion loan guarantee to the IMF.

Cap and Trade: (http://www.johnboehner.house.gov/blog/?postid=134502)

First off It's Unconstitutional (http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec9.html).

Cap and trade and carbon taxes violate the constitution because they are not apportioned. And while the 16th amendment was put in the constitution to allow the income tax the problen is it only applies to income. Cap and trade is based on carbon. Therefor it is an UNCONSTITUTIONAL property tax

2nd: Why did one of the biggest Socialists in the House vote against this bill. HMMM? (http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/10478)

And why did an Uber lib organization like Greenpeace (http://theminorityreportblog.com/story/steve_foley/2009/06/26/greenpeace_joins_growing_opposition_to_pelosi_s_na tional_energy_tax)think this was dreck?


Financial Reform: (http://www.michael-hudson.com/articles/financial/090622Obama's(Latest)Surrender.html)

It's business as usual in the Obama white house.


Mr. Obama doesn’t have to worry too much about offending his number-one donor constituency


Health Care Plan: (http://www.gao.gov/cghome/healthcare206/index.html)

General Accounting Office (GAO) has estimated that the administration’s health care plan would actually cost over a trillion dollars

Lager
07-02-2009, 03:10 PM
Here's a test for you Satanical, Let's see if you can take a paragraph or two, and in laymen's terms, explain exactly what the financial crisis is. Because if you don't understand the problem, or can't look at it outside of your political prism, then you sure as hell can't even begin to understand if the solution is working.

So you're pretty sure that Bush was responsible for the whole mess, but can you specifically identify what he alone did to cause it?

Molon Labe
07-02-2009, 03:17 PM
Why would I respond to Cato Institute talking points regurgitated by a member of CU ?

Many of those links I provided are from Liberal blogs turd brain.

You're not really into discussion.

Constitutionally Speaking
07-02-2009, 03:20 PM
Why would I respond to Cato Institute talking points regurgitated by a member of CU ?


Perhaps because it has actual facts in it??? If you object to the source I used, let's look at the WHO report itself!!!


http://www.photius.com/rankings/who_world_health_ranks.html

http://www.photius.com/rankings/world_health_systems.html



OOPS!!!!!!


It says the SAME THING!!!!!!!


To bad for your lying side.

Constitutionally Speaking
07-02-2009, 03:39 PM
The repubs said the same thing about Clinton. The exact opposite happened.

They warned his policies would create a even larger deficit ...instead it gave us the largest surplus ever.

Were those estimates on the "low side" ??? LOL.

You have zero cred.



Um - those were NOT his policies. His own estimates showed his policies increasing the deficits

http://fraser.stlouisfed.org/publications/ERP/issue/1600/



- it was ONLY after the republicans finally got control of congress that the deficit began to decline. (and they were not the largest surplus ever.)

lacarnut
07-02-2009, 03:43 PM
What is also enough to piss of the Pope is that Obama is a lying sack of shit. He said he was going reign in huge bonus's to those financial instutions that TARP money was given to. Goldman Sachs will fork out 20 billion dollars to employees this year. That's $700,000 per employee.

Now I get it. Paulsen, Geithner, Summers and Uncle Ben either worked for Goldman S. or are in the pocket of these bankers. We are getting screwed with these bailouts while these fat cats are getting richer. These large banks are too big to fail and are backed by the feds.Wonder what kind of Ponzi scheme they will come up with next. Don't fret though. The Magic Negro also said he would not allow lobbyist in his Admin. This sucker has told more lies than Clinton and has only been in office 6 months.

stsinner
07-02-2009, 04:00 PM
Reagan/Bush just told a lie and the idiots in this nation believed them.

Wow! There was some other President who told a whole bunch of lies and people blindly believed him and let him do whatever he wanted to them, even after it was blindingly obvious that he was a liar and hated America, even badmouthing the people he served when on foreign soil... Who was that guy... I'm drawing a blank.

Constitutionally Speaking
07-02-2009, 04:25 PM
I agree.

But to claim there was no crisis before he took office is absurd.

No one said we were not in tough shape. We just pointed out that NOT ONE significant Bush policy was allowed to pass since the Democrats took control of congress in 2006. Several were blocked and more than a few liberal policies were put into place.

hazlnut
07-03-2009, 12:01 AM
Just loosen your helmet and take your meds!

Oh, now you want to talk about who needs meds?!!

Megimoo does this eighteen times a day--and you think the new guy is few beers short of a six pack?:confused::rolleyes:

This guy Satanica (great name BTW) couldn't carry Meg's crazy lunch box!! And dear ol' Meg's has got one thing none of us will ever have.... A SEEMINGLY UNLIMITED AMOUNT OF FREE TIME.

Megs, don't worry, you're still Wing Nut Numero Uno in my book.

Hey, why not break some records this 4th of July weekend. 100 posts in one day!!

Rock our world, Megimoo!!!:D

Question for Santanica: Ronald Reagan would have been pro marriage, right?

Japandroid
07-03-2009, 05:36 AM
People expect the government to do everything, maintain prosperity and minimize the risk of downturn. When it fails at either one it gets blasted for being the entire problem. Newsflash folks: the free market offers greater promises of prosperity but at the (inevitable) risk of downturns. The US Treasury can sustain measured out growth, nowhere near that of the free market however, and do it with minimal risk of collapse.

So what do you do? You obviously dont work to abolish either institution of the Government or the Free Market, doing so would either hamstring economic growth or lead to a complete economic collapse. So you balance the whole thing out. If the markets turn south you let the Government step in and add some order, if the markets look healthy you ease up on restrictions and back-off on subsidies.

Bill Clinton wasn't the cause of the huge growth in the 1990's and nor was the Republican Congress, it was the overall health of our economy that gave us that prosperity. The government and the free market were sharing power and responsibility dutifully until about 1997.

If you're on a bicycle and you feel your balance leaning a little too far to the right, you dont heave all your weight to the left. If you do that you fall of the bike. When Glass-Steagall was repealed we made that exact mistake and are paying for it now. The fear here is that Obama may be overcorrecting that mistake, in essence making the same error. There is definitely a chance that he is, but any effort to return some power to the most powerful pile of money in the history of the world in a time where 3 of the 4 largest bankruptcies in history have occurred in the past 8 months should be at least understood instead of scoffed at and attacked without any prerequisite understanding or thinking.

What Obama is trying to do is, at heart, the right thing to do. Restore some balance between State and Markets that was lost. Going down each of his policies and universally labeling them bad or good is ludicrous and done without a clear frame of mind. Judging by responses in this thread and comments throughout this forum you are all so emotionally caught up in partisan politics that you've either bypassed or forgone your inherit ability to conduct common sense. Please, take some time and think about Obama's plans and dont end up looking as (if not more) ignorant than the Bush bashers of 2000-08.

Sonnabend
07-03-2009, 06:19 AM
What Obama is trying to do is, at heart, the right thing to do. Restore some balance between State and Markets that was lost.

Right.

Telling CEO's to step down
Nationalsiing banks and car manufacturers.

Lager
07-03-2009, 06:40 AM
Domo arigato, Mr. Roboto. A pretty clear post, however one thing I disagree with. You said:
"if the markets look healthy you ease up on restrictions and back-off on subsidies."

The problem I see there is the current attitude of our elected government makes it reluctant to give up any power or restrictions. Many state governments were easing taxes and letting citizens keep more of there earned income during the late 90's boom, however I don't recall the federal government following suit, though perhaps I'm wrong. I'm willing to give Obama a chance, the trouble is it's hard to follow what he is doing. He doesn't seem to be focused on one or two core financial principles, rather he seems to be throwing all things toward the problem and hoping something sticks.

Constitutionally Speaking
07-03-2009, 08:16 AM
Why would I respond to Cato Institute talking points regurgitated by a member of CU ?


Is the internet tough guy afraid of the truth???

lacarnut
07-03-2009, 08:47 AM
So what do you do? You obviously dont work to abolish either institution of the Government or the Free Market, doing so would either hamstring economic growth or lead to a complete economic collapse. So you balance the whole thing out. If the markets turn south you let the Government step in and add some order, if the markets look healthy you ease up on restrictions and back-off on subsidies.

Bill Clinton wasn't the cause of the huge growth in the 1990's and nor was the Republican Congress, it was the overall health of our economy that gave us that prosperity. The government and the free market were sharing power and responsibility dutifully until about 1997.


What Obama is trying to do is, at heart, the right thing to do. Restore some balance between State and Markets that was lost. Going down each of his policies and universally labeling them bad or good is ludicrous and done without a clear frame of mind. Judging by responses in this thread and comments throughout this forum you are all so emotionally caught up in partisan politics that you've either bypassed or forgone your inherit ability to conduct common sense. Please, take some time and think about Obama's plans and dont end up looking as (if not more) ignorant than the Bush bashers of 2000-08.

I blame Clinton, Bush, Congress and consumers for the mess we are in. However, in my opinion, Obama has made the problem worse with the nationalization of the banks, car makers and bailouts.

The crux of the matter is that the government allowed people to buy homes without income and allowed banks to issue credit cards to anyone. These lax credit initiatives made every body feel rich. Why save or put a down payment for a car or a house when you can buy it on credit. Americans went on spending sprees; now they are scared shitlees and are saving because they do not know if they will have a job. What do these fools in DC tell them to do? You guessed it, go out and spend, spend, spend. The extra 15 bucks you get in your check every week will not help that. Common sense would have told these dolts that if the 800 million dollars was placed in the consumers hands rather than giving Acorn or the unions millions, the stimuls might have worked. So far it is a big fat dud.

Americans are overwhelmingly against bailouts. They believe that these banks and AIG made their own bed with bad investments (I call it a ponzi scheme) so they should been allowed to fail and go into bankruptcy. They made bad business decisions by leveraging to the hilt. The Congress should write legislation regulating credit swaps and derevatives. The politicians told us that without bailouts the banking system would freeze up. What they did not tell us was that we bailed out banks in France, Germany, inc to the tune of tens of millions of dollars. Yep, our tax money went to bailout foreign banks. GM is in bankruptcy court and the auto industry did not fall apart. Consequently, I think the same would have been true for banks. One reaseon that the government favored them over the auto mfg's is that the banks have ex employees of G.S./banks working for the Feds like Uncle Ben, Summers, Geithner,etc. BTW, Goldman S. will hand out 20 billion in bonus's this year. That is 700k per employee. Obama stated he was going to clamp down on companies that rec. TARP money. I guess that does not apply to his friends at G.S. and other large banks. Obama is a bald faced liar.

Obama thinks government is the ONLY answer to our economic problems. Printing piles of money and hiring more governmental workers will not get us out of this mess. To add insult to injury, he thinks that cap and trade will create jobs. Investors are waiting on the sidelines to see how this cap and trade and his health care tax is going to affect them. So, if Obama thinks the private sector is going to create jobs anytime in the near future, he needs to wake up. Unemployment is going up to 12 to 13 per cent and it will not be long before inflation raises its ugly head. Government is NOT the answer; Congress needs to encourage new business's to emerge with incentives rather than putting a ball and chain around their neck with higher taxes.

Japandroid
07-04-2009, 04:21 AM
Domo arigato, Mr. Roboto. A pretty clear post, however one thing I disagree with. You said:
"if the markets look healthy you ease up on restrictions and back-off on subsidies."

The problem I see there is the current attitude of our elected government makes it reluctant to give up any power or restrictions. Many state governments were easing taxes and letting citizens keep more of there earned income during the late 90's boom, however I don't recall the federal government following suit, though perhaps I'm wrong. I'm willing to give Obama a chance, the trouble is it's hard to follow what he is doing. He doesn't seem to be focused on one or two core financial principles, rather he seems to be throwing all things toward the problem and hoping something sticks.

Keep in mind we havent' had stable economic growth since 2001, and contrary to a lot of people's beliefs it is not really George W. Bush's fault. In the late 1990's there was plenty of deregulation and shrinking of the Government, maybe not in all the right places but the budget was kept under control and military spending had already been cut back in the early Clinton years. The Government definitely trimmed some fat in those years and eased up on businesses.

They went overboard when they blurred the distinction between speculative investment banks and more firm banks that held tons of substantial capital. Speculation isn't bad within itself, it can create wealth out of pretty much thin air with a lot of sustainability... but only to a point. It is fairly obvious that we reached and passed that point in the past 12 months with all those failures.