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djones520
07-05-2009, 09:46 AM
The head of Mossad, Israel’s overseas intelligence service, has assured Benjamin Netanyahu, its prime minister, that Saudi Arabia would turn a blind eye to Israeli jets flying over the kingdom during any future raid on Iran’s nuclear sites.

Earlier this year Meir Dagan, Mossad’s director since 2002, held secret talks with Saudi officials to discuss the possibility.

The Israeli press has already carried unconfirmed reports that high-ranking officials, including Ehud Olmert, the former prime minister, held meetings with Saudi colleagues. The reports were denied by Saudi officials.

“The Saudis have tacitly agreed to the Israeli air force flying through their airspace on a mission which is supposed to be in the common interests of both Israel and Saudi Arabia,” a diplomatic source said last week.

Although the countries have no formal diplomatic relations, an Israeli defence source confirmed that Mossad maintained “working relations” with the Saudis.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6638568.ece

I'm sure this'll get Gator's goat. :D

satanica
07-05-2009, 10:44 AM
Using those planes outside their borders violates the agreement Israel signed when we gave them the planes.


And...If Israel doesn't think Iran hasn't placed sam's in the mountains on the east side of the gulf they a crazy.

They would have to fly over the mountain range and well into Iran's air space, this wouldn't be like the Osirak attack, they would probably never make it out of the country.

Nubs
07-05-2009, 10:53 AM
Sanatica - you are a dumb ass

They bought the planes - they own the planes

Isrealis drove all the way across Syria and back, through the best Soviet SAM array available, and noone knew they were there.

djones520
07-05-2009, 11:00 AM
Using those planes outside their borders violates the agreement Israel signed when we gave them the planes.


And...If Israel doesn't think Iran hasn't placed sam's in the mountains on the east side of the gulf they a crazy.

They would have to fly over the mountain range and well into Iran's air space, this wouldn't be like the Osirak attack, they would probably never make it out of the country.

Wrong again dipshit. The weapons are not to be used in agressive purposes as per the agreement. They can be used in Australia if they wanted, as long as it was in defense of Israel. Though, I'm sure you are going to argue that preemptive strikes aren't considered "defensive". :rolleyes: Don't bother.

satanica
07-05-2009, 11:23 AM
Sanatica - you are a dumb ass

They bought the planes - they own the planes

Isrealis drove all the way across Syria and back, through the best Soviet SAM array available, and noone knew they were there.


Not true dumb ass.

They had to sign agreements to get the planes. They also have to follow those rules to continue to get parts for those planes.

get informed fool.

Nubs
07-05-2009, 12:08 PM
Thay have used those planes outside their borders - Has Obama sent the repo man yet??

djones520
07-05-2009, 01:41 PM
OH! Now I bet Gator's really chomping at the bit!


WASHINGTON -- Vice President Joe Biden seemed to give Israel a green light for military action to eliminate Iran's nuclear threat, saying the U.S. "cannot dictate to another sovereign nation what they can and cannot do."

Israel considers Iran its most dangerous adversary and is wary of hard-line Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who just won a disputed re-election. He repeatedly has called for Israel to be wiped off the map and contends the Holocaust is a "myth."

Israel and the U.S. accuse Iran of seeking to develop weapons under the cover of a nuclear power program. Iran denies that.

"Israel can determine for itself -- it's a sovereign nation -- what's in their interest and what they decide to do relative to Iran and anyone else," Biden told ABC's "This Week" in an interview broadcast Sunday.

"Whether we agree or not. They're entitled to do that. Any sovereign nation is entitled to do that. But there is no pressure from any nation that's going to alter our behavior as to how to proceed," Biden said.


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/07/05/biden-wont-stand-way-israel-iran-nukes/

Rockntractor
07-05-2009, 01:44 PM
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/2116_animado.gif?t=1246815849

Apocalypse
07-05-2009, 02:15 PM
Not true dumb ass.

They had to sign agreements to get the planes. They also have to follow those rules to continue to get parts for those planes.

get informed fool.
Come up with the proof then that they had signed a deal to get those planes.

Back in '78 they agreed to such a deal to get some F15s from Carter, but the new planes are F-35s, and some 30 years later.

In addition, Bush would have been the one to supply the new fighters, and I doubt that he would have put that in as a requirement.

Also, remember, Israel used these same fighters to attack Syria a few years ago.

djones520
07-05-2009, 02:30 PM
Come up with the proof then that they had signed a deal to get those planes.

Back in '78 they agreed to such a deal to get some F15s from Carter, but the new planes are F-35s, and some 30 years later.

In addition, Bush would have been the one to supply the new fighters, and I doubt that he would have put that in as a requirement.

Also, remember, Israel used these same fighters to attack Syria a few years ago.

He's wrong in what he stated, but there was an agreement signed in 1952 called the Mutual Defense Assistance Agreement, that limits the equipment we sell them to being used for defensive purposes.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf

But using aircraft they buy from us to destroy sites that'll be used to create nuclear weapons that they have a reasonable right to believe will be used against them, will only be seen by people like Gator and Supercrash as an act of agression.

megimoo
07-05-2009, 02:49 PM
Sanatica - you are a dumb ass

They bought the planes - they own the planes

Isrealis drove all the way across Syria and back, through the best Soviet SAM array available, and noone knew they were there.
He is a silly shit ,They own the aircraft and can do what ever they want with them .
This explains why the Saudi 's are so goosie about Iran just as they were with Iraq under Saddam Husein .
The temptation to invade the kingdom and seize the oil fields s very great for those petty despots.

And if Iran has nukes they could well black mail Saudi Arabia to pay them billions in tribute of be destroyed.

Apocalypse
07-05-2009, 07:25 PM
He's wrong in what he stated, but there was an agreement signed in 1952 called the Mutual Defense Assistance Agreement, that limits the equipment we sell them to being used for defensive purposes.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf

But using aircraft they buy from us to destroy sites that'll be used to create nuclear weapons that they have a reasonable right to believe will be used against them, will only be seen by people like Gator and Supercrash as an act of agression.
Thanks for the link, and reading it, your right, he doesn't understand the agreement signed.

CorwinK
07-06-2009, 12:33 AM
Even if they weren't used for defensive purposes...are we really going to attempt to go repo aircraft from an ally while they're obviously in the middle of a war?

noonwitch
07-07-2009, 08:51 AM
This is such a win/win for the Saudis. Israel can attack a common enemy, Iran, run by the Shias, and when the Shias complain, the Saudis can still blame "the jews".

Sonnabend
07-15-2009, 04:39 AM
Silence in Syria, Panic in Iran
By Dr. Jack Wheeler, To The Point News 19/9/07
Sep 25, 2007 - 12:09:27 PM

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"Everyone in the government and military can only talk of one thing,' he reports. 'No matter who I talked to, all they could do was ask me, over and over again, 'Do you think the Americans will attack us?' 'When will the Americans attack us?' 'Will the Americans attack us in a joint operation with the Israelis?' How massive will the attack be?' on and on, endlessly. The Iranians are in a state of total panic.'

And that was before September 6. Since then, it's panic-squared in Tehran. The mullahs are freaking out in fear. Why? Because of the silence in Syria. On September 6, Israeli Air Force F-15 and F-16s conducted a devastating attack on targets deep inside Syria near the city of Dayr az-Zawr. Israel's military censors have muzzled the Israeli media, enforcing an extraordinary silence about the identity of the targets. Massive speculation in the world press has followed, such as Brett Stephens' Osirak II? in yesterday's (9/18) Wall St. Journal. Stephens and most everyone else have missed the real story. It is not Israel's silence that 'speaks volumes' as he claims, but Syria's.

Why would the Syrian government be so tight-lipped about an act of war perpetrated on their soil? The first half of the answer lies in this story that appeared in the Israeli media last month (8/13): Syria's Antiaircraft System Most Advanced In World. Syria has gone on a profligate buying spree, spending vast sums on Russian systems, 'considered the cutting edge in aircraft interception technology.' Syria now 'possesses the most crowded antiaircraft system in the world,' with 'more than 200 antiaircraft batteries of different types,' some of which are so new that they have been installed in Syria 'before being introduced into Russian operation service.' While you're digesting that, take a look at the map of Syria: Notice how far away Dayr az-Zawr is from Israel. An F15/16 attack there is not a tiptoe across the border, but a deep, deep penetration of Syrian airspace. And guess what happened with the Russian super-hyper-sophisticated cutting edge antiaircraft missile batteries when that penetration took place on September 6th. Nothing.

El blanko. Silence. The systems didn't even light up, gave no indication whatever of any detection of enemy aircraft invading Syrian airspace, zip, zero, nada. The Israelis (with a little techie assistance from us) blinded the Russkie antiaircraft systems so completely the Syrians didn't even know they were blinded. Now you see why the Syrians have been scared speechless. They thought they were protected - at enormous expense - only to discover they are defenseless. As in naked. Thus the Great Iranian Freak-Out - for this means Iran is just as nakedly defenseless as Syria.

I can tell you that there are a lot of folks in the Kirya (IDF headquarters in Tel Aviv) and the Pentagon right now who are really enjoying the mullahs' predicament. Let's face it: scaring the terror masters in Tehran out of their wits is fun. It's so much fun, in fact, that an attack destroying Iran's nuclear facilities and the Revolutionary Guard command/control centers has been delayed, so that France (under new management) can get in on the fun too. On Sunday (9/16), Sarkozy's foreign minister Bernard Kouchner announced that 'France should prepare for the possibility of war over Iran's nuclear program.' All of this has caused Tehran to respond with maniacal threats. On Monday (9/17), a government website proclaimed that '600 Shihab-3 missiles' will be fired at targets in Israel in response to an attack upon Iran by the US/Israel.

This was followed by Iranian deputy air force chief Gen. Mohammad Alavi announcing today (9/19) that 'we will attack their (Israeli) territory with our fighter bombers as a response to any attack.' A sure sign of panic is to make a threat that everyone knows is a bluff. So our and Tel Aviv's response to Iranian bluster is a thank-you-for-sharing yawn and a laugh. Few things rattle the mullahs' cages more than a yawn and a laugh. Yet no matter how much fun this sport with the mullahs is, it is also deadly serious. The pressure build-up on Iran is getting enormous. Something is going to blow and soon. The hope is that the blow-up will be internal, that the regime will implode from within. But make no mistake: an all-out full regime take-out air assault upon Iran is coming if that hope doesn't materialize within the next 60 to 90 days. The Sept. 6 attack on Syria was the shot across Iran's bow.

So - what was attacked near Dayr az-Zawr? It's possible it was North Korean 'nuclear material' recently shipped to Syria, i.e., stuff to make radioactively 'dirty' warheads, but nothing to make a real nuke with as the Norks don't have real nukes (see Why North Korea's Nuke Test Is Such Good News, October 2006). Another possibility is it was to take out a stockpile of long-range Zilzal surface-to-surface missiles recently shipped from Iran for an attack on Israel. A third is it was a hit on the stockpile of Saddam's chemical/bio weapons snuck out of Iraq and into Syria for safekeeping before the US invasion of April 2003. But the identity of the target is not the story - for the primary point of the attack was not to destroy that target. It was to shut down Syria's Russian air defense system during the attack. Doing so made the attack an incredible success. Syria is shamed and silent. Iran is freaking out in panic. Defenseless enemies are fun.

marv
07-15-2009, 08:21 AM
This is such a win/win for the Saudis. Israel can attack a common enemy, Iran, run by the Shias, and when the Shias complain, the Saudis can still blame "the jews".
Excellent observation - I was about to do the same. The Shi'a and Sunni Wahhabist muslims are mortal enemies.

mrmeangenes
07-15-2009, 08:32 AM
I can appreciate the Israelis' concern, and it would not surprise me to see them act on it - but - the real question is whether they would be allowed to do so.

Someone a week or so ago suggested US planes might intercept them , but I suspect intervention might come from Russia.

The Russians have been in a de facto alliance with Iran for a few years now. They supply Iran with Low Enriched Uranium , and with technicians .They have also pretty much neutralized an Israeli "outpost" in the Republic of Georgia, from which an Israeli raid could have been launched; and it would not surprise me to see the Russians furnishing Iran with "AWACS" coverage as well.

From a Russian viewpoint (I think) a low-key alliance with Iran : provides a buyer for Russian goods and services; provides the advantages of a "truce" with the Iranian Shi'ites (including cooperation against the Sunni militants who have been a thorn in the Big Bear's paw ?); and, finally-sets up a buffer state between itself and US interests.(Oops ! Almost forgot OIL !!)

Sonnabend
07-15-2009, 09:05 AM
I can appreciate the Israelis' concern, and it would not surprise me to see them act on it - but - the real question is whether they would be allowed to do so.Russia would not dare intervene. All it takes is one missile, and the shit hits the fan. Russia will not be so stupid as to get into a shooting war with israel....if his planes even target Israeli forces, that's the signal for them to become part of the problem,.

Russia has oppressed Jews for centuries, and the Israelis will not hesitate to even the score...payback and then some.Putin will protest, sure, but commit forces? No way, because the only way he can be effective is military intervention.

They will literally have to engage the Israelis...and that opens a can of worms even he doesnt dare go near.

mrmeangenes
07-15-2009, 09:20 AM
Really ? No one would attempt to interfere with the Israelis ???

You might not remember the Suez crisis, when the US and Britain did just that !

In any event, if Russia provides AWACS cover to Iran, it doesn't have to intervene any further, as a successful raid would depend on stealth. Take away the element of surprise, and ..............

Sonnabend
07-16-2009, 07:30 AM
Really ? No one would attempt to interfere with the Israelis ???Militarily? Nope. Not unless they wanted to suddenly be the centre of attention of a VERY pissed off Israeli air force. A VERY unhealthy idea.


You might not remember the Suez crisis, when the US and Britain did just that !They did not militarily engage the Israelis. There was never a shooting war.


In any event, if Russia provides AWACS cover to Iran, it doesn't have to intervene any further, as a successful raid would depend on stealth. Take away the element of surprise, and ..............Uh..Syria had massive air to air defences.

Fat lot of good it did them.

mrmeangenes
07-16-2009, 09:58 AM
Sonnabend, perhaps YOU should fly the mission !

My gut feeling is the Israelis would rather talk about it than attempt it.

Sonnabend
07-16-2009, 04:41 PM
Sonnabend, perhaps YOU should fly the mission !

A little too far to commute. But thanks for the thought.


My gut feeling is the Israelis would rather talk about it than attempt it.

.....said Syria...and Egypt...and anyone else stupid enough to get in their way.

Personally, I am hoping the Israelis flatten Iran's nuclear plants...and a few well chosen bombs on Ahmedinajad's palace / residences wouldnt go astray.

Waste not, want not.....