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View Full Version : California’s Nightmare Will Kill Obamanomics



Full-Auto
07-06-2009, 02:38 PM
July 6 (Bloomberg) -- Last week, we discovered that the state of California will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.

With California mired in a budget crisis, largely the result of a political impasse that makes spending cuts and tax increases impossible, Controller John Chiang said the state planned to issue $3.3 billion in IOU’s in July alone. Instead of cash, those who do business with California will get slips of paper.

The California morass has Democrats in Washington trembling. The reason is simple. If Obama’s health-care plan passes, then we may well end up paying for it with federal slips of paper worth less than California’s. Obama has bet everything on passing health care this year. The publicity surrounding the California debt fiasco almost assures his resounding defeat.

Source: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aTKrn1jUJwdE

Full-Auto
07-06-2009, 02:39 PM
What I struggle to understand is how can anyone support the outrageous spending of this administration? How freaking dumb do you have to be to honestly think, ESPECIALLY in this economic climate, that nationalizing healthcare will be a good thing?

lacarnut
07-06-2009, 03:16 PM
Passage of the Obama health care plan along with cap and trade will put this country on a downward spiral of economic degradation that this country will never recover from.

BadCat
07-06-2009, 03:27 PM
Passage of the Obama health care plan along with cap and trade will put this country on a downward spiral of economic degradation that this country will never recover from.

Keep buying gold, dude.

lacarnut
07-06-2009, 03:34 PM
Keep buying gold, dude.

Bought a couple of thou. today. My large safety deposit box is full.

stsinner
07-06-2009, 03:36 PM
What I struggle to understand is how can anyone support the outrageous spending of this administration? How freaking dumb do you have to be to honestly think, ESPECIALLY in this economic climate, that nationalizing healthcare will be a good thing?

Actually, I thought that massive spending was the only way out of debt....

California is undeniable proof that massive gubment regulation will strangle the states and not lead to profitability or a healthy economy. All the positive aspects the Oblahblah administration touts about Socialist health care are lies and delusional information perpetrated on the ignorant masses so desperate for more free stuff. If you think your health care is expensive now, just wait until it's free!

Unfortunately, just as we ignore the failure of Socialist health care all over the world yet make a headlong rush towards it, Americans seem to be really bad at learning from the mistakes of others. We seem to think that it hasn't worked all over the world where it's being practiced now because nobody as smart as us has tried it.. We seem to have some sick and twisted need to make the mistake ourselves before we admit that it doesn't work. The problem is that once it's foist upon us, we'll never get rid of it, no matter how miserably it fails or inefficient it is. Like a welfare recipient whose kid turns 18 and is emancipated-we'll just have another kid rather than lose benefits...

expat-pattaya
07-06-2009, 04:11 PM
Bought a couple of thou. today. My large safety deposit box is full.

Where does one buy gold at a good price?

Japandroid
07-06-2009, 07:36 PM
People in CA vote on spending and taxing measures. They want their government to provide them with nearly unlimited services with no tax burden.

Direct democracy doesnt work.

Rockntractor
07-06-2009, 07:40 PM
People in CA vote on spending and taxing measures. They want their government to provide them with nearly unlimited services with no tax burden.

Direct democracy doesnt work.

Hey your sharp! Why don't we try a republic.

Japandroid
07-06-2009, 07:41 PM
There is no discernable difference between a "Democracy" and a "Republic", only people on the internet think there is.

Rockntractor
07-06-2009, 07:46 PM
There is no discernable difference between a "Democracy" and a "Republic", only people on the internet think there is.

Our founding fathers did. Walk away from your computor and go to the library. You need some quiet time to study our constitution and our founding fathers. I don't think you try to be this stupid . We just didn't expect enough from you in school.

Japandroid
07-06-2009, 07:47 PM
Our founding fathers did. Walk away from your computor and go to the library. You need some quiet time to study our constitution and our founding fathers. I don't think you try to be this stupid . We just didn't expect enough from you in school.

The Founding Fathers are not the end-all be all to political arguments, they got a lot of things wrong. They were humans you know.

Rockntractor
07-06-2009, 07:50 PM
The Founding Fathers are not the end-all be all to political arguments, they got a lot of things wrong. They were humans you know.

You and those like you are the end all of our way of life. They were the begining of something beautiful that has lasted over two hundred years.

Zathras
07-06-2009, 08:54 PM
The Founding Fathers are not the end-all be all to political arguments, they got a lot of things wrong. They were humans you know.

They were a lot smarter about things like our country than you'll ever be junior.

lacarnut
07-06-2009, 09:07 PM
Where does one buy gold at a good price?

I found a great site today. Gainesville coins.com. Most of the coins I have bought have been from the US Mint. The Gold 1 ounce eagles are the best coins to buy and have a higer resale value than the Kugs. or Maples. You can buy only 1 (one) Ultra High Relief 1 ounce Eagle from the mint for $1,289 per household. This coin will only appreciate in value and is a beautiful coin. They are selling on e-bay for $1.5 up to 2k. Bought a couple of 1 ounce Panda's from Gainesville. I also buy coins on e-bay but that is a bit trickier cause most of the coins there are way overpriced.

If you want bulk quanities of gold (20 ounces or more or 500 ounces of silver), tulving.com has great prices. You can buy small quanities (1) from the mint and Gainesville

lacarnut
07-06-2009, 09:14 PM
The Founding Fathers are not the end-all be all to political arguments, they got a lot of things wrong. They were humans you know.

The opinion of someone that is dumb as a rock, does not have a job, does not contribute to society and does not pay income taxes means about as much to me as a flea on a donkeys ass.

Full-Auto
07-06-2009, 10:35 PM
A true democracy does not, has never, and never could exist. What we have, as noted, is a Republic. There is a difference. In recent history the definition of Democracy has been changed to where people often confuse it with a Republic. But to say they are one in the same is not only inaccurate but demonstrates a complete lack of understanding regarding the two dissimilar systems of government.

Here's a site that explains the differences in great detail.

http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/AmericanIdeal/aspects/demrep.html

Elspeth
07-06-2009, 11:21 PM
I found a great site today. Gainesville coins.com. Most of the coins I have bought have been from the US Mint. The Gold 1 ounce eagles are the best coins to buy and have a higer resale value than the Kugs. or Maples. You can buy only 1 (one) Ultra High Relief 1 ounce Eagle from the mint for $1,289 per household. This coin will only appreciate in value and is a beautiful coin. They are selling on e-bay for $1.5 up to 2k. Bought a couple of 1 ounce Panda's from Gainesville. I also buy coins on e-bay but that is a bit trickier cause most of the coins there are way overpriced.

If you want bulk quanities of gold (20 ounces or more or 500 ounces of silver), tulving.com has great prices. You can buy small quanities (1) from the mint and Gainesville

How are you sure that you're getting what you pay for? Just curious.

lacarnut
07-07-2009, 01:31 AM
How are you sure that you're getting what you pay for? Just curious.

If you buy NEW coins from the US Mint or from a reputable dealer like Northwest, Kitco or Gainesville, you will be getting a good coin. Shopping around for price is another thing. I don't buy expensive old graded coins. This is very tricky and should be left to experts which I am not. Novices should stick with American coins.

Buying on e-bay is also tricky. You have to know the value of the coin and do not get caught up in the bidding process and over pay; buying from a dealer that sells many coins with a 100% rating is a good indication that you will get a good coin. You can get some good deals on e-bay but you have to show patience. Although phantom bidding is illegal, I believe it happens.

1qaz2wsx
07-07-2009, 05:52 AM
Keep buying gold, dude.

Wow, I never thought I'd hear that from members of this board given their view of the economy from the 2007-08 primaries. There was a certain someone seeking the nomination who personally advocated a return to the gold standard, simply because wealth couldn't be inflated away from The People under such a standard. I'm very glad to see people recommending the gold standard as a personal investment choice. It's good to see that some of you are catching on and realizing that a fiat money supply only serves the purpose of allowing the party in power to serve their own ends while the backlash catches up later.


Now to this utter nonsense:



There is no discernable difference between a "Democracy" and a "Republic", only people on the internet think there is.


Seriously?! Where did you go to Junior High, and does your civics teacher still have a job? Political systems aren't rocket science, and by every accord from the 1770's through the 1790's we were given a Republic, on the provision we could keep it. The fact that you can see no discernible difference between a democracy and a republic does not mean that a discernible and important difference does not exist, it only means you are not up to the task of keeping the dream that is America alive and well. The fact that you can't see the difference only means that your Junior High civics teacher, your freshman World History teacher, and your Junior American History teacher failed. The fact, you admitted, that you see no difference, only means you don't know the difference, because these two forms of government are actually quite the opposite of each other.

In a Democracy, the majority makes the rules. In a Democracy the majority has the right to legislate property away from the minority and award it to the majority. You know, something like Rome, circa 48 B.C. In a Democracy the majority has the right to legislate life away from the minority, and end it or own it. You know, something like Germany circa 1938 (what is that death toll?), perhaps even Sparta at 480 B.C. In a democracy 51% of the subjects have the right to deprive 49% of the subjects of their god and/or humanity given liberty. If 51% of the U.S. tomorrow were to agree to reconstitute the slavery of black people, what would have made that possible? Democracy would be culprit. If tomorrow, 51% of the population decided to declare open season on illegal immigrants, Arizona would be in a war between those who participate in the mob's edict and those who oppose it.

That is harsh, bitter and grim reality of a Democracy. Rule by the mob equates to no certainty, no planning of the future, and no human endeavor due to these facts. When the mob can giveth and the mob can taketh away, at a whim of the majority, a man is confined to the transparent prison of being associated with the right mob.

That is precisely why we humans have developed a Republic. A Republic is rule by edict of law, not mob, not majority. A Republic allows certainty and confidence, and thus human endeavor into a person's life. In a Constitutional Republic such as our own, we producers, we toilers' of the earth have a contract upheld by the highest law with our government. Our contract stipulates that no matter how the majority feels, or votes, or wants, the power of the government is limited in the sense that it cannot deprive a man of life, liberty or property at the behest of the mob and only upon due process may such an action occur. A Constitutional Republic delegates certain tasks to a hierarchical government, one which spans from municipality to Federation. Under the rule of law that maintains a Republic, a man has the right and legal standing to seek protection from the mob who wishes to take his life, liberty or property. In a republic the course of government action is decided by majority second, and rule of law first. There is no such safeguard in a democracy.

So, the next time you are at the local library, read the Federalist Papers, read Common Sense. FFS, watch the HBO special on and entitled "John Adams". Whatever you do, don't go through life thinking that democracy and republic are one and the same. It's not just "an internet thing" that differentiates the two. The difference between democracy and republic is a real and tangible thing that been around for thousands of years, so real that we humans, to this day, refer to our entire solar system as Sol, named after Solan's rule of law. Pretending that all Republics are Democracies only amounts to a great discredit upon you and your posterity, whom you didn't defend from hardship because you were ignorant of governmental systems.

In short, a democracy is just as scary as a monarchy or oligarchy. Without the rule of law enforced by a people committed to being free of subjugation, the will of the many may as well be replaced by the will of the few, and finally the will of one. A Republic gains legitimacy from the rule of accepted law, a democracy gains legitimacy from the majority, the oligarchy from the privileged minority and the monarchy from privileged one. Only one of these forms of government is acceptable to Americans whom don't wish to be ruled, and democracy IS NOT IT.

SarasotaRepub
07-07-2009, 07:25 AM
Hmmm...I expected this thread to be about the MJ's Circus Event today...:D

satanica
07-07-2009, 08:36 AM
Ya, The GOP recalled Grey Davis for a 8 billion dollar debt.

Arnie gets installed and destroyes the state with a 15 billion dollar debt ...and still doesn't resign.


Arnie thought Davis should resign for 8 billion ...but he should stay at 15 billion.

Arnie is a failure, and the GOP owns this failure.

Lars1701a
07-07-2009, 08:57 AM
Ya, The GOP recalled Grey Davis for a 8 billion dollar debt.

Arnie gets installed and destroyes the state with a 15 billion dollar debt ...and still doesn't resign.


Arnie thought Davis should resign for 8 billion ...but he should stay at 15 billion.

Arnie is a failure, and the GOP owns this failure.

Nearly the whole state is run by Democraps and you want to put the blame on one single Republican. :rolleyes:

Constitutionally Speaking
07-07-2009, 09:06 AM
People in CA vote on spending and taxing measures. They want their government to provide them with nearly unlimited services with no tax burden.

Direct democracy doesnt work.



California is an example of the liberals promising them they CAN have everything and not pay for it.

They have been taught this by the liberals. The same group that is trying to do the same thing to the entire country.

I will not argue with you that a direct democracy is impossible on any significant scale, but California does not have a direct democracy and it still failed. It failed because liberals in government taught the citizens that it is their RIGHT to not have to work - and still be able to live very comfortably. Liberals in government taught class envy and they voted in politicians who are driving businesses out of the state based on that class envy.
Liberals in government imposed strangulating regulations on business.

The article Full Auto quoted is exactly right.

lacarnut
07-07-2009, 09:06 AM
Ya, The GOP recalled Grey Davis for a 8 billion dollar debt.

Arnie gets installed and destroyes the state with a 15 billion dollar debt ...and still doesn't resign.


Arnie thought Davis should resign for 8 billion ...but he should stay at 15 billion.

Arnie is a failure, and the GOP owns this failure.

You get 5 bongs for that story. The other 5 bongs belong to the crazy lunatics that make up the overwhelmly Democratic Legislature. In other words, you got it half ass right.

Grey Davis, like Arnuld, like Boxer, like Feinstein, like most politicians in California are infected with this spend beyond your means mentality. It sure hurts to be that damn stupid but they have a whole raft of politicians throughout the country including Repubs. that's brains are hard wired with this stupidity. That is one reason why Democrats and some Repubs are scared to death of Palin. She would turn DC on its ears.

Constitutionally Speaking
07-07-2009, 09:07 AM
Ya, The GOP recalled Grey Davis for a 8 billion dollar debt.

Arnie gets installed and destroyes the state with a 15 billion dollar debt ...and still doesn't resign.


Arnie thought Davis should resign for 8 billion ...but he should stay at 15 billion.

Arnie is a failure, and the GOP owns this failure.


In case you hadn't noticed, Arnie CAVED in to the liberals who control everything else in the state.

stsinner
07-07-2009, 09:10 AM
Nearly the whole state is run by Democraps and you want to put the blame on one single Republican. :rolleyes:

Liberals are idiots! Just like them blaming Mitt Romney for not turning this crappy state of MA around when it's 85% Liberal, and he had a Democrap controlled House and Senate.. They're too dumb to know what a veto-proof majority is and think that the top guy can just do whatever he wants... Then they blame him for not working miracles.. California is crap hole of monumental proportions with all the hippies and freaks of the country and the most Liberal people you'll find anywhere.. A day at Venice Beach would be a real eye opener for most people who think California is a wonderful paradise.

They'll get a lesson in this area if we reclaim either the House or the Senate in the 2010 mid-term election and stop the Muslim President from ruining our country further.

Zathras
07-07-2009, 10:05 AM
Nearly the whole state is run by Democraps and you want to put the blame on one single Republican. :rolleyes:

A Republican in name only by the way. If this idiot Satanica really knew what was going on here in California he'd realize it's the Republicans in state government that are standing against spending increases that the Democrats want to impose upon us state residents in the new budget. The fiscal problems here are the fault of the Dems, not the GOP.

expat-pattaya
07-07-2009, 10:15 AM
I found a great site today. Gainesville coins.com. Most of the coins I have bought have been from the US Mint. The Gold 1 ounce eagles are the best coins to buy and have a higer resale value than the Kugs. or Maples. You can buy only 1 (one) Ultra High Relief 1 ounce Eagle from the mint for $1,289 per household. This coin will only appreciate in value and is a beautiful coin. They are selling on e-bay for $1.5 up to 2k. Bought a couple of 1 ounce Panda's from Gainesville. I also buy coins on e-bay but that is a bit trickier cause most of the coins there are way overpriced.

If you want bulk quanities of gold (20 ounces or more or 500 ounces of silver), tulving.com has great prices. You can buy small quanities (1) from the mint and Gainesville

Thanks. Think I'll order my first Eagle today.

lacarnut
07-07-2009, 10:22 AM
Thanks. Think I'll order my first Eagle today.

Make sure it's the Ulltra High Relief Eagle. They have two kinds of gold eagles. You might have to wait a month or so to get it but your credit card will not be charged until it is delivered. .

Rockntractor
07-07-2009, 10:31 AM
Hmmm...I expected this thread to be about the MJ's Circus Event today...:D
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/2007_03-tc10.jpg?t=1246976014

satanica
07-07-2009, 10:33 AM
The fiscal problems here are the fault of the Dems, not the GOP.

Yep.

Just like Reagans spending was the fault of the Dems. Give it up, you hacks have been passing the buck for decades now.

lacarnut
07-07-2009, 10:40 AM
Yep.

Just like Reagans spending was the fault of the Dems. Give it up, you hacks have been passing the buck for decades now.

Go get a job loser, and leave the politics to those that carry the water.

expat-pattaya
07-07-2009, 10:44 AM
Make sure it's the Ulltra High Relief Eagle. They have two kinds of gold eagles. You might have to wait a month or so to get it but your credit card will not be charged until it is delivered. .

I admit I am looking and can not find the ultra high relief coin for that price. Any tips on where they hide it?

Thanks

lacarnut
07-07-2009, 11:25 AM
duplicate.

lacarnut
07-07-2009, 11:27 AM
I admit I am looking and can not find the ultra high relief coin for that price. Any tips on where they hide it?

Thanks

google US Mint --click on --"Shop on line" (menu on the left side) and then go down to the" Products"menu on the left side and click on American eagle coins--at the top you will see Ultra High relief for $1289 and order from there.

expat-pattaya
07-07-2009, 12:24 PM
google US Mint --click on --"Shop on line" (menu on the left side) and then go down to the" Products"menu on the left side and click on American eagle coins--at the top you will see Ultra High relief for $1289 and order from there.

Got it. You da man. I was looking on the Gainsville site. :o

lacarnut
07-07-2009, 12:39 PM
Got it. You da man. I was looking on the Gainsville site. :o

Good deal Lucille.

Speedy
07-07-2009, 01:08 PM
I have plenty of gold and my dad not only left me a lot of gold when he died, he left me something worth more than gold. Thousands of rounds of ammo.

Elspeth
07-07-2009, 01:38 PM
If you buy NEW coins from the US Mint or from a reputable dealer like Northwest, Kitco or Gainesville, you will be getting a good coin. Shopping around for price is another thing. I don't buy expensive old graded coins. This is very tricky and should be left to experts which I am not. Novices should stick with American coins.

Buying on e-bay is also tricky. You have to know the value of the coin and do not get caught up in the bidding process and over pay; buying from a dealer that sells many coins with a 100% rating is a good indication that you will get a good coin. You can get some good deals on e-bay but you have to show patience. Although phantom bidding is illegal, I believe it happens.

Thanks. I'm bookmarking your reply.:)

PS: I tried getting on Gainesville but the browser told me I needed a special authentication and password and wouldn't even show the page.

lacarnut
07-07-2009, 01:49 PM
Thanks. I'm bookmarking your reply.:)

PS: I tried getting on Gainesville but the browser told me I needed a special authentication and password and wouldn't even show the page.

They are having trouble with their internet service. It took me 30 min. to try and buy a couple of coins yesterday on line. It would not let me pay for them. I finally gave up and called them; got thru instantly.

BTW, they have the best price on Silver American Eagles that I have found. Shipping is kinda high if you only buy a few.

Elspeth
07-07-2009, 03:36 PM
They are having trouble with their internet service. It took me 30 min. to try and buy a couple of coins yesterday on line. It would not let me pay for them. I finally gave up and called them; got thru instantly.

BTW, they have the best price on Silver American Eagles that I have found. Shipping is kinda high if you only buy a few.

How do you get the phone number? I can't even get on the site to get the contact information.

Molon Labe
07-07-2009, 03:37 PM
Where does one buy gold at a good price?

Lacarnut has some really good advice....but don't rule out the local Coin exchange guys.
Find one that is reputable and look into other gold and silver coins options. (Kruggerand and American Buffalo coin). Silver coins are also not a bad choice to hedge dollars and it's way cheaper if you don't want to invest the big bucks.

Take these cash for gold guys that are springing up everywhere. Ever wonder why? Who's benefitting? You think they would be doing this if the people getting the cash were getting a deal? Ignorant people everywhere turn it in to them for bills that keep getting more and more worthless. It's one of the biggest scams going that's sprung up in the economic turmoil and for good reason.

lacarnut
07-07-2009, 03:46 PM
How do you get the phone number? I can't even get on the site to get the contact information.

The phone number for Gainesville coins is 352-653-3009 but I thought you wanted the US Mint. You got me confused now. The Gainesville sight is working ok now.

lacarnut
07-07-2009, 04:02 PM
Lacarnut has some really good advice....but don't rule out the local Coin exchange guys.
Find one that is reputable and look into other gold and silver coins options. (Kruggerand and American Buffalo coin). Silver coins are also not a bad choice to hedge dollars and it's way cheaper if you don't want to invest the big bucks.

Take these cash for gold guys that are springing up everywhere. Ever wonder why? Who's benefitting? You think they would be doing this if the people getting the cash were getting a deal? Ignorant people everywhere turn it in to them for bills that keep getting more and more worthless. It's one of the biggest scams going that's sprung up in the economic turmoil and for good reason.

I have a couple of Kruggerands and an American Buffalo coin. Most of my gold coins are eagles. Eagle coins are not reportable by the dealer to the IRS in ANY amount. If you cash in 11 Krugs/Maples the coin dealer will have to report that transaction to the IRS because of the $10k threshold. I do not want to ever get on their radar screen if I can help it. CMI gold/silver has some great articles on gold.