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PoliCon
07-08-2009, 11:55 PM
Archbishop of Moncton says he is not looking for any apologies
Last Updated: Wednesday, July 8, 2009 | 9:18 PM AT
CBC News


Prime Minister Stephen Harper should not have accepted communion at Roméo LeBlanc's state funeral in Memramcook, N.B., the archbishop of Moncton said Wednesday.

Msgr. André Richard said the church law is clear, but he is not looking for any apologies or explanations from Harper or the Prime Minister's Office.

Cameras were rolling when communion hosts were offered to people attending the funeral for the former governor general on July 3.

Harper, who is an evangelical Protestant, accepted the host but appeared to put it in his program or his pocket, according to some onlookers.

However, a review of videotape shot at the event was inconclusive, and the Prime Minister's Office says Harper consumed the wafer, in accordance with Catholic law.

A PMO spokesman, Dimitri Soudas, said the camera didn't show the whole story.

CONTINUED (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/new-brunswick/story/2009/07/08/harper-archbishop.html)

noonwitch
07-09-2009, 08:44 AM
I'm a protestant. I don't take communion in a catholic church. I don't take communion in any church I don't have a family or personal history with, in general, but the catholic church does have specific requirements that I don't meet. I do have a history somewhat with the episcopalian church (grandparents), but I don't take communion there because it's usually not offered at weddings and funerals.

My church doesn't really do communion often, mostly on Maunday Thursday and a couple of healing services during the year. I take it at UCC churches, because I was confirmed in one. I also take it at UMC churches, because I was baptized in one and I attended one in college.

PoliCon
07-09-2009, 11:16 AM
To tell the truth I find closed communion to be contrary to the gospel.

linda22003
07-09-2009, 12:10 PM
I've received at Catholic churches on the infrequent occasions that I attend them. I prefer to do it in the Episcopal church because I'm Episcopalian, but also for hygienic reasons - any Catholic church I've been to still wants people to drink directly from the same cup, and discourages intinction. Too much old lipstick and backwash, for me.

PoliCon
07-09-2009, 12:15 PM
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=1772504

It's just another left wing smear campaign.

PoliCon
07-09-2009, 12:16 PM
I've received at Catholic churches on the infrequent occasions that I attend them. I prefer to do it in the Episcopal church because I'm Episcopalian, but also for hygienic reasons - any Catholic church I've been to still wants people to drink directly from the same cup, and discourages intinction. Too much old lipstick and backwash, for me.You realize that there is a blessing in drinking from the cup - right? And the age groups that backwash are generally bared from communion at most churches . . . just say'n.

I've gone to RCC for communion when there was no other choice but I have to say I don't like to - not because of their stupid rules - but because I so rarely find a RCC that is not dead.

linda22003
07-09-2009, 12:20 PM
You realize that there is a blessing in drinking from the cup - right?

Not really. My tradition recognizes both forms of communion - intinction and separate consumption of the elements - as equally valid.

PoliCon
07-09-2009, 12:22 PM
Not really. My tradition recognizes both forms of communion - intinction and separate consumption of the elements - as equally valid.

OH I'm not saying that tincture is invalid - I'm just pointing out that there is a blessing in drinking from the cup.

linda22003
07-09-2009, 12:24 PM
OH I'm not saying that tincture is invalid - I'm just pointing out that there is a blessing in drinking from the cup.

What is it? I may need all the help I can get.

PoliCon
07-09-2009, 12:30 PM
What is it? I may need all the help I can get.

1 Corinthians 10:16 It's the cup of blessings.

linda22003
07-09-2009, 12:32 PM
I do partake from the cup, by dipping the host in it. And in that passage, it says we share the same loaf - which is probably not the case in your church any more than it is in mine.

PoliCon
07-09-2009, 12:45 PM
I do partake from the cup, by dipping the host in it. And in that passage, it says we share the same loaf - which is probably not the case in your church any more than it is in mine.

You partake of the contents of the cup - but not the cup itself. Anyhow - do as you like - I'm just trying to get you blessed :p

BadCat
07-09-2009, 12:47 PM
What is that thing about communion? Transmogrification? Transsubstantiation?

Damn, and I used to be a Catholic.

linda22003
07-09-2009, 12:57 PM
What is that thing about communion? Transmogrification? Transsubstantiation?

Damn, and I used to be a Catholic.


As Tom Lehrer said in his song "The Vatican Rag" :

"Two, four, six, eight,
Time to transubstantiate!"

linda22003
07-09-2009, 01:00 PM
We need Ginger's input on this. She's a good Anglican lady, but drinking straight from the communion cup would have to make her OCD needle go off the dial.

noonwitch
07-09-2009, 01:25 PM
You realize that there is a blessing in drinking from the cup - right? And the age groups that backwash are generally bared from communion at most churches . . . just say'n.

I've gone to RCC for communion when there was no other choice but I have to say I don't like to - not because of their stupid rules - but because I so rarely find a RCC that is not dead.

I visited a pretty cool RCC church once in Kalamazoo, when I was a student. It was right across the street from WMU, I think it was Second Reformed Church. The people there were very nice-I was participating in an IVCF Bible Study conference we had at their church, and we stayed overnight with church members in the community. The "adults" were very involved with us during the service on Sunday, and very supportive on Friday and Saturday. It was my first experience leading a Bible Study group, and the host family was very supportive of me, and even prayed with me the morning before I started the study.

I always respected the RCC for their stand against Apartheid in the 1980s. This was a big issue at WMU when I was there, because the University had investments in South Africa. It's important for more conservative christians to let it be known that social justice isn't just a liberal church issue.

Gingersnap
07-09-2009, 01:38 PM
We need Ginger's input on this. She's a good Anglican lady, but drinking straight from the communion cup would have to make her OCD needle go off the dial.

Pretty much. My church is Anglican and we generally receive the host from the priest's hands straight on the tongue (kneeling, of course).

The Catholics don't have any separate or special blessing involving the wine chalice that is additional to communion itself to my knowledge. Now, if a Catholic is indisposed to receive, they can cross their arms over their heart and receive a blessing instead of communion.

Back to the topic: the evangelical guy should have never approached the altar during communion anyway. He should have remained in the pew and collected his thoughts. There's no harm or disgrace in observing but not participating in the sacraments of other churches. Communion in the Catholic church isn't a token gesture - it's a deeply supernatural act that requires spiritual preparation.

PoliCon
07-09-2009, 04:07 PM
I visited a pretty cool RCC church once in Kalamazoo, when I was a student. It was right across the street from WMU, I think it was Second Reformed Church. The people there were very nice-I was participating in an IVCF Bible Study conference we had at their church, and we stayed overnight with church members in the community. The "adults" were very involved with us during the service on Sunday, and very supportive on Friday and Saturday. It was my first experience leading a Bible Study group, and the host family was very supportive of me, and even prayed with me the morning before I started the study.

I always respected the RCC for their stand against Apartheid in the 1980s. This was a big issue at WMU when I was there, because the University had investments in South Africa. It's important for more conservative christians to let it be known that social justice isn't just a liberal church issue.

OH I don't mean dead like in lack of people - I mean spiritually dead. As in God hasn't been there or welcome there in YEARS!

PoliCon
07-09-2009, 04:11 PM
Pretty much. My church is Anglican and we generally receive the host from the priest's hands straight on the tongue (kneeling, of course).

The Catholics don't have any separate or special blessing involving the wine chalice that is additional to communion itself to my knowledge. Now, if a Catholic is indisposed to receive, they can cross their arms over their heart and receive a blessing instead of communion.

Back to the topic: the evangelical guy should have never approached the altar during communion anyway. He should have remained in the pew and collected his thoughts. There's no harm or disgrace in observing but not participating in the sacraments of other churches. Communion in the Catholic church isn't a token gesture - it's a deeply supernatural act that requires spiritual preparation.

There are evangelicals who believe - as I do - in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. The RCC does not deny the alter based on belief or disbelief in the Eucharist - they deny the alter based on church membership and that alone - as do pretty much all churches that have closed communion. :(

Gingersnap
07-09-2009, 05:07 PM
There are evangelicals who believe - as I do - in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. The RCC does not deny the alter based on belief or disbelief in the Eucharist - they deny the alter based on church membership and that alone - as do pretty much all churches that have closed communion. :(

It's their church and their rules. Truthfully, most Catholics probably shouldn't be receiving communion at any given time. I forget what the exact percentage is but hardly any Catholics go to Reconciliation anymore and very few do so even once a month. If the cradle Catholics can't seem to pull off that State of Grace thing for an hour a week, you can see why the Church is leery of non-Catholics barging up to the altar.

PoliCon
07-09-2009, 06:45 PM
It's their church and their rules. Truthfully, most Catholics probably shouldn't be receiving communion at any given time. I forget what the exact percentage is but hardly any Catholics go to Reconciliation anymore and very few do so even once a month. If the cradle Catholics can't seem to pull off that State of Grace thing for an hour a week, you can see why the Church is leery of non-Catholics barging up to the altar.

yes - I know more about the catholic church and her doctrines and dogmas than do most catholics - I know at hey believe about the Eucharist and frankly share that belief. ANYHOW - I like how the burden is put on the outsider. He's supposed to know without having been told. :rolleyes:

Gingersnap
07-09-2009, 08:59 PM
yes - I know more about the catholic church and her doctrines and dogmas than do most catholics - I know at hey believe about the Eucharist and frankly share that belief. ANYHOW - I like how the burden is put on the outsider. He's supposed to know without having been told. :rolleyes:

I don't know that is really fair. If I turn up at a Hindu ceremony, I wouldn't expect to be included in the ritual aspects. Back in the day, most people were generally aware that various churches had "distinctives" that limited the participation of non-believers and non-members.

I think his error says more about his failure to understand his own church and maybe a general lack of good manners. ;)

noonwitch
07-10-2009, 08:41 AM
OH I don't mean dead like in lack of people - I mean spiritually dead. As in God hasn't been there or welcome there in YEARS!


I know what you meant, and I was trying to show that at least in the mid 80s, this church was pretty alive.

PoliCon
07-10-2009, 01:51 PM
I don't know that is really fair. If I turn up at a Hindu ceremony, I wouldn't expect to be included in the ritual aspects. Back in the day, most people were generally aware that various churches had "distinctives" that limited the participation of non-believers and non-members.

I think his error says more about his failure to understand his own church and maybe a general lack of good manners. ;)

There is a huge difference between hindu and Christian. Not so much between differing Christian sects.