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gator
06-01-2008, 09:02 AM
Australia turns chckenshit on us:


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,361248,00.html


Australia Ends Iraq Combat Operations
Sunday, June 01, 2008

SYDNEY, Australia — Australia, a staunch U.S. ally and one of the first countries to commit troops to the Iraq war five years ago, ended combat operations there Sunday, a Defense Department official said.

Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd was swept into office in November largely on the promise that he would bring home the country's 550 combat troops by the middle of 2008.

Rudd has said the Iraq deployment has made Australia more of a target for terrorism.

The combat troops are expected to return home over the next few weeks. Local media reports said the first of the soldiers had already landed in Australia on Sunday afternoon.

Sonnabend
06-01-2008, 09:29 AM
We have troops in Afghanistan and that number will increase as time goes on, Our navy works the gulf.Our civiilian advisors remain.

Two thirds of our troops remain in Iraq and more to go to other theatres.The troops that come home will rest, retrain, re equip and then redeploy, probably to Afghanistan.

Or Timor. Or the Philippines. Or Aceh. Or the Solomons where trouble is brewing.

We are not "chickenshit" and I am offended beyond words at you, Gator.You know better than this..or you should.

Sonnabend
06-01-2008, 09:33 AM
Additionally...how dare you denigrate the actions of others and how dare you insult a nation that has stood by you through thick and thin.May I remind you that the support of the US and this war is what cost Joihn Howard the election, is what has divided this nation and that the action to remove troops is not broadly supported.

Our SAS dropped behind enemy lines pre OIF, we have served time and again and helped the US in times when needed..we will continue to do so in other theatres, our commitment to Iraq and the WOT is as it has always been.

I might also add that the fact they can leave safely is proof they have done their job well and done what they came there to do....mission complete.

The words you are looking for are THANK and YOU.

SaintLouieWoman
06-01-2008, 10:14 AM
Additionally...how dare you denigrate the actions of others and how dare you insult a nation that has stood by you through thick and thin.May I remind you that the support of the US and this war is what cost Joihn Howard the election, is what has divided this nation and that the action to remove troops is not broadly supported.

Our SAS dropped behind enemy lines pre OIF, we have served time and again and helped the US in times when needed..we will continue to do so in other theatres, our commitment to Iraq and the WOT is as it has always been.

I might also add that the fact they can leave safely is proof they have done their job well and done what they came there to do....mission complete.

The words you are looking for are THANK and YOU.

These are the words you're getting from the majority of Americans. Please disregard the chickenshit stuffr. Don't know what gets into Gator sometimes. :rolleyes:

Ranger Rick
06-01-2008, 10:21 AM
Yes, please except our apologies for Gator. Honestly, I don't know what gets into him sometimes.

DarkHalo
06-01-2008, 10:35 AM
Gator seems to think this sort of behavior makes the forum more interesting. He pulled the same crap at NU. Hopefully someday Rob will come to his senses about gator.

Sonnabend please also accept my apology for gator being an ass. Australia is a good ally to America and the vast majority of us are very grateful.

LogansPapa
06-01-2008, 10:41 AM
Who, exactly, are the Austratians?:confused:

Sonnabend
06-01-2008, 10:47 AM
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/troops-boost-for-afghanistan/2008/01/15/1200159449778.html


AUSTRALIA may boost its troop numbers in Afghanistan under a new surge strategy drafted by the US to crush a revived Taliban insurgency.

The news comes amid fresh security fears after at least seven people were killed in a bombing at the luxury Kabul hotel that houses the Australian embassy.

http://www.afghanconflictmonitor.org/2007/11/australia-may-r.html


Australia would withdraw about half of its 1,000 troops from Iraq and consider sending them to Afghanistan if the government changes at elections next week, an opposition lawmaker said Friday.

Joel Fitzgibbon, the opposition Labor Party’s defence spokesman, said 550 combat troops currently in Iraq were a “misallocation of resources,” and could be redeployed to Afghanistan."

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22528218-601,00.html


AUSTRALIA is preparing to send hundreds more troops to Afghanistan's southern Oruzgan province, where deadly contacts with Taliban fighters have escalated in recent months.

By the middle of next year, Australia - whether under a Labor or Coalition government - will have more troops on the ground in Afghanistan than it does in Iraq.

A commitment for a slight increase in the number of Australian troops based at Tarin Kowt as part of a reconstruction force is expected before the election because of a withdrawal of troops from The Netherlands.

In addition to an increase in troops to replace the Dutch soldiers, a mortar team has just been dispatched, 110 crew and support staff for two Chinook helicopters are preparing to go and there are plans for increased RAAF surveillance over southern Afghanistan.

Australia has about 970 military in Afghanistan, including infantry and special forces as well as an RAAF air traffic control group based at Kandahar. The final figure next year will depend on how many troops the Dutch withdraw, and to what extent Australians fill the gap.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/australian-troops-under-renewed-taliban-attack/2007/08/11/1186530679077.html


AUSTRALIAN reconstruction troops in Afghanistan have come under heavy attack twice in recent days in sustained and co-ordinated assaults forming their toughest challenge yet from Taliban fighters.

Until now, the reconstruction troops — unlike Australian special forces — have not been involved in intense combat.

No Australians were injured in the attacks, but a number of Taliban fighters were killed, their forces repelled with the support of armoured vehicles and helicopter gunships.

Perilloux
06-01-2008, 10:47 AM
These are the words you're getting from the majority of Americans. Please disregard the chickenshit stuffr. Don't know what gets into Gator sometimes. :rolleyes:

Yeah, what she said. I'm grateful to call Australia an ally.

Sonnabend
06-01-2008, 10:48 AM
Who, exactly, are the Austratians?

The people who watch your back whilst you sleep.
The people who keep watch on some of the worst jihadi hotbeds in the world

Any more questions?.

gator
06-01-2008, 10:52 AM
Yeah, what she said. I'm grateful to call Australia an ally.

Real allies don't elect Left Wing governments and then cut and run on you.

SarasotaRepub
06-01-2008, 10:55 AM
Real allies don't elect Left Wing governments and then cut and run on you.

Hmmmm...what may happen this November??? :p

hampshirebrit
06-01-2008, 11:00 AM
An excellent and hilarious thread so far, on so many levels.

Keep up the good work, folks.

It reminds me why I like CU so much. :D

gator
06-01-2008, 11:05 AM
According to this article even the Australian troops themselves are ashamed of their government.



http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/ashamed-to-wear-uniform/2008/05/26/1211653939158.html?s_cid=rss_news


Ashamed to wear uniform


LOW-RISK missions assigned to the infantry in conflicts such as Iraq and Afghanistan have left soldiers "ashamed of wearing their Australian uniform" and made them a laughing stock among allies, say two senior officers who have spoken out against the Government and their military chiefs.

The officers, writing separately in the Australian Army Journal, say giving all potentially offensive actions to Australia's special forces, including the SAS, has weakened morale and prompted many soldiers to question the future of the infantry.

"In the opinion of many infantrymen, the lauding of their contributions to recent operations does not ring true," writes Major Jim Hammett, who has served in East Timor, Iraq, Somalia and Tonga. "Many within its ranks suspect that the role of the infantry has already been consigned to history … The ongoing inaction [in Iraq] … has resulted in collective disdain and at times near contempt by personnel from other contributing nations for the publicity-shrouded yet force-protected Australian troops."



http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2008/05/27/majorjimhammett_narrowweb__300x458,0.jpg

"Institutional cowardice" … Major Jim Hammett.
Photo: Australian Defence Force

Sonnabend
06-01-2008, 11:09 AM
So now you're slagging off our military, Gator?

As for government...its called DEMOCRACY, you jerk.


Real allies don't elect Left Wing governments and then cut and run on you.The Australian people will elect who we choose and when and we dont give two rats hoots whether you like it or not. As a sovereign nation we will do with our internal politics as we please.

And I may also add that YOUR Democrat idiot Gore shilled for Rudd, so if anyone is responsible for this mess, you would be well suited to look to your OWN shores and the man who interfered in the electoral process of a sovereign nation.

He was elected with the help of an American senator. Care to comment?

BTW if BaracK Obama is elected in November, I will be PERSONALLY be overjoyed to post a picture of a crow pie, a fork, your quote from this thread and the words

CHOW DOWN, GATOR.

Perilloux
06-01-2008, 11:13 AM
Hmmmm...what may happen this November??? :p


:(

I Know. It's sad.

Sonnabend
06-01-2008, 11:55 AM
Remove that and apologise.

NOW.

Edit: never mind, i did it for you.

First and last warning, LP, insulting the military is against CU rules and will be dealt with accordingly.

SaintLouieWoman
06-01-2008, 12:04 PM
Remove that and apologise.

NOW.

It was offensive. Sad to see this type junk on the board. The topic could have been brought up initially in a different, less offensive manner, simply as a news article, not with the "chickenshit" topic. Some moral clarity. :rolleyes: As for LogansPapa's remark, consider the source.

Chill, Sonna. Please read the remarks here. You'll see most of the comments are against the premise of this thread. The Australians are not chickenshits, and certainly you aren't. Don't fall for the shit stirring attempts.

Sonnabend
06-01-2008, 12:12 PM
Going to bed now anyway

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:s-1C56azFQBDuM:http://bp3.blogger.com/_48pIyTbrm4A/R1W1XFAMiJI/AAAAAAAABEQ/cUWMbvHOMjQ/s400/I%2Bwanna%2Bsleep.jpg

Zathras
06-01-2008, 12:14 PM
Not surprised that Herr Gator would post something like that.

gator
06-01-2008, 12:30 PM
The Australian people will elect who we choose and when and we dont give two rats hoots whether you like it or not.

...and I will call you a chickenshit when you cut and run.

SaintLouieWoman
06-01-2008, 12:33 PM
...and I will call you a chickenshit when you cut and run.


Operating word, "you". Sonna is from Australia, yet "he" didn't cut and run. That would be like Hamp dissing you for something Hillary or Obama does. You have more moral clarity than this---or you did. :(

RobJohnson
06-01-2008, 12:37 PM
Isn't a reduction in troops a sign of progress for Iraq?

This is great news!

Thank you Australia for all your help!

I thought the Ron Paul supporters wanted everyone to pull out of Iraq....now you don't????

Freeper
06-01-2008, 01:16 PM
Australia turns chckenshit on us:


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,361248,00.html

I would think you would be applauding Australia for pulling out. After all that is the policy you want here at home. Would the USA be chickenshits if we pulled out?

LibraryLady
06-01-2008, 01:26 PM
Libarary Lady won't give me the time of day.

Hon, I love 'ya but it's time to stop stirring s**t.

gator
06-01-2008, 01:45 PM
I would think you would be applauding Australia for pulling out. After all that is the policy you want here at home. Would the USA be chickenshits if we pulled out?

Yep. If the mission isn't completed.

The Australian people (the same ones that gave up their right to keep and bear arms) voted in a Left Wing cut and run government. The government did exactly what the people wanted.

There are still Coalition troops dying in Iraq and the Australians were too chickenshit to stick it out.

Not very reliable allies if you ask me.

The Australian troops will do as good a job as any Coalition member but the government decided to cut and run. They left a few support troops behind but they won't be in harm's way.

If you remember what I said when I endorsed Ron Paul was that I differed from him in thinking we needed to complete the mission in Iraq before extracting ourselves from Middle East interventionism. If we don’t complete the mission we will be withdrawing from a position of weakness instead of strength.

gator
06-01-2008, 01:49 PM
Hon, I love 'ya but it's time to stop stirring s**t.

I will take posting a thread about the truth of the unreliability of our so called allies over your love any day, Hon.

LibraryLady
06-01-2008, 01:53 PM
You are going to end up alone on this board "posting truths".

Phillygirl
06-01-2008, 01:54 PM
I will take posting a thread about the truth of the unreliability of our so called allies over your love any day, Hon.

Gator...our country had the misfortune of 12 years of chickenshit presidential leadership in my memory alone. That doesn't discount the bravery of the men that served, or those that supported those that served during that time period. That's the problem with democracy...sometimes it gets the wrong answer during the right process.

gator
06-01-2008, 02:05 PM
You are going to end up alone on this board "posting truths".

Are you denying that the Australians are cutting and running from Iraq after electing a Left Wing government?

What part of that is untrue?

My characterization of them being chickenshits would apply to America or anybody else if we did the same thing.

I will be saying the same thing about my government if Obamaclinton is elected and we do the cut and run two step.

Would you rather not discuss such delicate matters or would you rather I not make value judgments?

LibraryLady
06-01-2008, 02:14 PM
You and I and everyone else knows you posted that as a slam at Sonnabend. Does he have any more control of what his government does than you or I do in this country?

Don't pretend to be all high and mighty about it. We all know lots of truths but we don't throw them in people's faces.

You don't give a rat's bark about anyone on this board and you've proven it time and again.

Freeper
06-01-2008, 02:17 PM
Yep. If the mission isn't completed.

The Australian people (the same ones that gave up their right to keep and bear arms) voted in a Left Wing cut and run government. The government did exactly what the people wanted.

There are still Coalition troops dying in Iraq and the Australians were too chickenshit to stick it out.

Not very reliable allies if you ask me.

The Australian troops will do as good a job as any Coalition member but the government decided to cut and run. They left a few support troops behind but they won't be in harm's way.

If you remember what I said when I endorsed Ron Paul was that I differed from him in thinking we needed to complete the mission in Iraq before extracting ourselves from Middle East interventionism. If we don’t complete the mission we will be withdrawing from a position of weakness instead of strength.

So you are saying you would have voted for a chickenshit basically then?

gator
06-01-2008, 02:29 PM
So you are saying you would have voted for a chickenshit basically then?

I actually did vote for him in the Florida Primary so the answer is yes.

However, I didn’t vote for him because of that issue. In fact I said I differ with him on that issue.

I addressed that point very clearly in my endorsement. I said that his policies on fiscal responsibility and smaller government were much more important to our country that getting our ass kicked in Iraq.

We can survive an asskicking if we have a strong economy. If we don’t have a strong economy then we will hurt a whole lot more in the long run.

gator
06-01-2008, 02:34 PM
You and I and everyone else knows you posted that as a slam at Sonnabend. Does he have any more control of what his government does than you or I do in this country?

Don't pretend to be all high and mighty about it. We all know lots of truths but we don't throw them in people's faces.

You don't give a rat's bark about anyone on this board and you've proven it time and again.

So no posting of articles critical of Australia because it may offend one of our members?

OK, I understand the rules now.

Political correctness is a whole lot more important than discussing the issues.

I guess I am too old school CU. I remember the good old days a few years ago when we took on all the issues and let the chips fall where they may.

I'll go take my nap now.

LibraryLady
06-01-2008, 02:40 PM
I don't make any rules here. I am just cognizant of other people's feelings, especially respected members of this board.

If you want a solitary pulpit, keep it up.
Not for me to say.

Were those the good old days before you ran everybody off

SaintLouieWoman
06-01-2008, 02:44 PM
So no posting of articles critical of Australia because it may offend one of our members?

OK, I understand the rules now.

Political correctness is a whole lot more important than discussing the issues.

I guess I am too old school CU. I remember the good old days a few years ago when we took on all the issues and let the chips fall where they may.

I'll go take my nap now.

I remember the good old days, too, was there from almost the beginning. It's one thing to post articles; quite another to say it in a manner antagonistic to a fellow mod and good member. It's all in the phrasing, my dear Gator. Calling someone chickenshit because of what his country, not what he does, is just that-----chickenshit.

gator
06-01-2008, 03:39 PM
I don't make any rules here. I am just cognizant of other people's feelings, especially respected members of this board.

If you want a solitary pulpit, keep it up.
Not for me to say.

Were those the good old days before you ran everybody off

I also post on an UK site.

Most of the members there are pro American although a couple are real Left Wingers.

About half of them are either current or ex military including officers. Several of them served in A-stain and/or Iraq. They are all stanch British patriots.

A few months ago I posted a thread saying that it was chickenshit for them to withdraw from the fight in Basra. If you remember the Brits withdrew to a compound in Basra and effectively got out of the fight.

Instead of being indignant they agreed with me. We were able to discuss how the UK had let down its closest ally. They understood the decision was driven by a more left leaning government. We had a great discussion on it.

I guess the difference is that many of these guys had served and knew the meaning of cowardice. They know the real meaning of honor and commitment. They also were able to understand that a government can be chickenshit and the troops still be brave.

I will be just as (if not more) critical of my government if we cut and run from Iraq before the job is completed. You may remember me being critical of the US government for doing the ole cut and run in Vietnam and I actually served in that conflict.

Sorry if I am not politically correct enough for CU.

newshutr
06-01-2008, 03:55 PM
Now I know why I left for a while. Gator's BS.

DarkHalo
06-01-2008, 04:00 PM
Real allies don't elect Left Wing governments and then cut and run on you.

So if Obama is elected in Nov you will put up with being called chickenshit?

gator
06-01-2008, 04:07 PM
So if Obama is elected in Nov you will put up with being called chickenshit?

We were chikenshit with Vietnam we can be chickenshits with Iraq.

DarkHalo
06-01-2008, 04:22 PM
We were chikenshit with Vietnam we can be chickenshits with Iraq.

I did not say "we" gator and I am sure you know exactly what I meant.

Will YOU tolerate being called chickenshit if our country elects obama? Yes or no?

gator
06-01-2008, 09:10 PM
I did not say "we" gator and I am sure you know exactly what I meant.

Will YOU tolerate being called chickenshit if our country elects obama? Yes or no?

YES!!!!!

Is that clear enough?

patriot45
06-01-2008, 10:16 PM
Australia turns chckenshit on us:


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,361248,00.html

You just had to read the rest of the article- It looks like they did thier job there but are still committed to Afghanistan. Not quite chickenshit!

The soldiers, as well as 65 army trainers, were stationed at Talil, about 185 miles south of Baghdad, and were responsible for providing security training for Iraqi forces, as well as reconstruction and aid work. They have been on standby to offer backup to Iraqi forces in the south for the past two years.

In February, the head of Australia's defense force, Air Chief Marshal Angus Houston, told a Senate inquiry that the troops were no longer needed in Iraq.

Rudd remains committed to keeping Australia's 1,000 troops in Afghanistan.

gator
06-01-2008, 10:45 PM
You just had to read the rest of the article- It looks like they did thier job there but are still committed to Afghanistan. Not quite chickenshit!

The soldiers, as well as 65 army trainers, were stationed at Talil, about 185 miles south of Baghdad, and were responsible for providing security training for Iraqi forces, as well as reconstruction and aid work. They have been on standby to offer backup to Iraqi forces in the south for the past two years.

In February, the head of Australia's defense force, Air Chief Marshal Angus Houston, told a Senate inquiry that the troops were no longer needed in Iraq.

Rudd remains committed to keeping Australia's 1,000 troops in Afghanistan.

Did you read the part where they said they are not going to do that nasty combat stuff anymore?

patriot45
06-01-2008, 11:02 PM
Did you read the part where they said they are not going to do that nasty combat stuff anymore?


If you mean in Iraq, yea you are right, but they still seem committed to Afghanistan and to keep helping in economical ways in Iraq.



Yet there remains a solid commitment from Australia to assist the Iraqi people. That is why the Government is providing $140 million in aid and reconstruction funds, retaining the naval contingent to help protect the 95 per cent of Iraqi budgetary revenue that flows from Iraqi oil, and the security detachment to protect our diplomatic staff.


The withdrawal of combat troops from Iraq also makes operational sense. The Australian Defence Force is overly stretched with deployments in Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and East Timor to name a few. By contrast, the 550 Australian combat troops providing security cover to the southern provinces of Al Muthanna and Dhi Qar have not been called out once to back up local Iraqi forces since successfully handing over security responsibility to the Iraqi authorities in late 2006.

Zathras
06-02-2008, 12:16 AM
So what we have here is a redeployment of combat troops now that their mission is over....So I guess Gator will call us chickenshits when the same thing is done with American forces. The real reason behind Gator's starting this thread is his hatred for Sonnabend, nothing more.

lacarnut
06-02-2008, 02:08 AM
The people who watch your back whilst you sleep.
The people who keep watch on some of the worst jihadi hotbeds in the world

Any more questions?.

Plus 1 & thanks to you and your countrymen.

JB
06-02-2008, 03:06 AM
...http://www.initeck.com/images/shop/product_images/229/regular_Calvin%20Klein%20Obsession%20For%20Men.jpg

gator
06-02-2008, 06:57 AM
So what we have here is a redeployment of combat troops now that their mission is over....So I guess Gator will call us chickenshits when the same thing is done with American forces. The real reason behind Gator's starting this thread is his hatred for Sonnabend, nothing more.

That is not what the article said.

Did you read both the articles that I posted?

The newly elected Left Wing government of Australia decided that they were not going to do combat operations in Iraq any more. It was not part of a Coalition redeployment plan. It was part of an unilateral cut and run in Iraq plan by the Australians.

It is not that much different that what the Brits did in Basra. It is what we will do if Obama or Clinton gets elected. It is leaving before the mission is completed.

Other Coalition troops will have to take up the slack.

Sonnabend
06-02-2008, 07:48 AM
The real reason behind Gator's starting this thread is his hatred for Sonnabend, nothing more.

Sadly, this is true.

gator
06-02-2008, 08:06 AM
Sadly, this is true.

This thread was abut the decision of an ally to cut and run from combat operations.

I even provided a link to Austrailian Army Officers that agreed with me.

It had nothing to do with individuals.

My country will do the same chickenshit thing if Obama or Clinton is elected.

My country DID the same chickenshit thing in Vietnam. We let down an ally and millions died because of it.

This thread is about politics.

Full-Auto
06-02-2008, 10:40 AM
We have troops in Afghanistan and that number will increase as time goes on, Our navy works the gulf.Our civiilian advisors remain.

Two thirds of our troops remain in Iraq and more to go to other theatres.The troops that come home will rest, retrain, re equip and then redeploy, probably to Afghanistan.

Or Timor. Or the Philippines. Or Aceh. Or the Solomons where trouble is brewing.

We are not "chickenshit" and I am offended beyond words at you, Gator.You know better than this..or you should.

I can't fault your country for having enough of Iraq. I've had just about enough of Iraq too. Afghanistan is a noble cause and your country's assistance will be appreciated.

Full-Auto
06-02-2008, 10:43 AM
This thread was abut the decision of an ally to cut and run from combat operations.

I even provided a link to Austrailian Army Officers that agreed with me.

It had nothing to do with individuals.

My country will do the same chickenshit thing if Obama or Clinton is elected.

My country DID the same chickenshit thing in Vietnam. We let down an ally and millions died because of it.

This thread is about politics.

So, do you think we should still be over there fighting the Vietnam war? If McCain gets his way, we will be in Iraq for the next 20 years. Don't we ever just finish up a war anymore? Could you image if we fucked around this long with WWII?

Rebel Yell
06-02-2008, 10:55 AM
It wasn't that long ago I saw Gator saying that he supported a candidate who said he would pull out of Iraq. Now that said candidate is out of the race, has he defaulted to the only remaining candidate. I may be wrong, but I thought he said he wouldn't support McCain, no matter what?

gator
06-02-2008, 12:20 PM
It wasn't that long ago I saw Gator saying that he supported a candidate who said he would pull out of Iraq. Now that said candidate is out of the race, has he defaulted to the only remaining candidate. I may be wrong, but I thought he said he wouldn't support McCain, no matter what?

I am not defalting to anybody.

I know nobody that is worth voting for.

McCain said he wouldn't leave Iraq until the job is completed and that is OK but he is wrong on many more issues. He won't seal the border, he has become an Environmnetal wacko, he won't withdraw from the Middle East after the Iraq mission is completed and he is just spouting the same old NeoCon shit when it comes to big government.

The Democrats are worse.

By the way, McCain was on TV this morning kissing the ass of the pro Israel lobby and promising another 50 years of Middle East interventionism . He promised them all the money and American blood their evil little hearts desire. Obama and Clinon will be giving the same ass kissing speech later on this week.

gator
06-02-2008, 12:25 PM
So, do you think we should still be over there fighting the Vietnam war? If McCain gets his way, we will be in Iraq for the next 20 years. Don't we ever just finish up a war anymore? Could you image if we fucked around this long with WWII?

Nixon had the right idea on Vietnam. Not much different than what we did in Korea. The Liberals would not allow that to happen.

If McCain gets his way we will be kissing the ass of the pro Israel lobby for the next 50 year, insuring terrorism at home and conflict abroad. But our "little buddies" the Israelis will be safe and isn't that always the most important thing in the world?

We need to listen to our Founding Fathers and less to the pro Israel lobby.

Rebel Yell
06-02-2008, 12:26 PM
I am not defalting to anybody.

I know nobody that is worth voting for.

McCain said he wouldn't leave Iraq until the job is completed and that is OK but he is wrong on many more issues. He won't seal the border, he has become an Environmnetal wacko, he won't withdraw from the Middle East after the Iraq mission is completed and he is just spouting the same old NeoCon shit when it comes to big government.

The Democrats are worse.

By the way, McCain was on TV this morning kissing the ass of the pro Israel lobby and promising another 50 years of Middle East interventionism . He promised them all the money and American blood their evil little hearts desire. Obama and Clinon will be giving the same ass kissing speech later on this week.


But that wasn't OK about six months ago? What changed?

gator
06-02-2008, 12:26 PM
I can't fault your country for having enough of Iraq. I've had just about enough of Iraq too. Afghanistan is a noble cause and your country's assistance will be appreciated.

As bad as it is staying in Iraq it would be worse to withdraw now.

You get into a lose-lose situation when you do stupid things.

gator
06-02-2008, 12:30 PM
But that wasn't OK about six months ago? What changed?

I don't understand your question.

My position since I realized the NeoCons were screwing up the country has been consistent.

We were wrong to get into Middle East politics 40 years ago. I have no clue why we invaded Iraq.

Since we are in Iraq we need to finish the mission so we can withdraw from a position of strength instead of weakness.

Rebel Yell
06-02-2008, 12:46 PM
I don't understand your question.

My position since I realized the NeoCons were screwing up the country has been consistent.

We were wrong to get into Middle East politics 40 years ago. I have no clue why we invaded Iraq.

Since we are in Iraq we need to finish the mission so we can withdraw from a position of strength instead of weakness.


I may just be remembering wrong, since I can't pull up the archives, but wasn't Ron Pauls position to immediately begin to withdraw from Iraq?

gator
06-02-2008, 12:52 PM
I may just be remembering wrong, since I can't pull up the archives, but wasn't Ron Pauls position to immediately begin to withdraw from Iraq?

It was.

I very clearly said in my endorsement of him that I disagreed with him on that issue. I even went over to RonPaul.com and signed up for the discussion board and told them that was a losing position for Paul. By the way, most of the people agreed with me on it.

Rebel Yell
06-02-2008, 01:07 PM
It was.

I very clearly said in my endorsement of him that I disagreed with him on that issue. I even went over to RonPaul.com and signed up for the discussion board and told them that was a losing position for Paul. By the way, most of the people agreed with me on it.

Then, I apologize. Now that you mention it, I do remember you saying that you disagreed with him on that. But he was still your candidate, and it makes it hard to take it seriously when you call people chickenshits because they voted for a politician who is pulling troops out when you were backing a candidate with the same intentions.

I wasn't here in '04, so I can't comment on the "Joh Kerry was right" stuff.

Sonnabend
06-02-2008, 06:44 PM
Gator has personally called me a coward on at least two occasions.This is not about politics. This is a vicious personal attack on me.

Gators attitude is everyone should serve and those that don't are "chickenshits". Gator personally abuses members and gets away with it because he is an admin. To date he has never apologised for that vicious, unwarranted slur on my character, nor will he ever.

Witness the "male nurse" epithets...apparently to him, nurses are also beneath contempt.

Gator abuses his power, abuses the privilege of his position and is a hypocrite.

I am no coward, and I do not have to serve, or do anything else to prove otherwise..and we all know Gator will never back down or apologise or admit he was wrong or that he was out of line.

Even when everyone but him can see that he has stepped out of line.

Gator treats everyone with contempt and slags off at members whenever he feels like it.

Had this thread been started by anyone else, the thread would be gone and the member banned. This is not about politics and never was. Gator has attacked my character, treated me and others with derision and scorn, and gotten away with conduct that no one else here ever would be.

You called me a coward, Gator,...you attacked my character and have abused me and treated me like filth when I have never merited it.

We all know you will never man up and apologise.

So if anyone here is a chickenshit, anyone here is a coward...its you, Gator.

Go ahead, use those awesome admin powers and ban me. Delete the post (oh wait, don't worry, thats what ctrl and print screen is for)

And you will have proven every word I have said here to be 100% correct.

LogansPapa
06-02-2008, 06:49 PM
Gator has personally called me a coward on at least two occasions.This is not about politics. This is a vicious personal attack on me.

Gators attitude is everyone should serve and those that don't are "chickenshits". Gator personally abuses members and gets away with it because he is an admin. To date he has never apologised for that vicious, unwarranted slur on my character, nor will he ever.

Gator abuses his power, abuses the privilege of his position and is a hypocrite.

I am no coward, and I do not have to serve, or do anything else to prove otherwise..and we all know Gator will never back down or apologise or admit he was wrong or that he was out of line.

Even when everyone but him can see that he has stepped out of line.

Gator treats everyone with contempt and slags off at members whenever he feels like it.

Had this thread been started by anyone else, the thread would be gone and the member banned. This is not about politics and never was. Gator has attacked my character, treated me and others with derision and scorn, and gotten away with conduct that no one else here ever would be.

You called me a coward, Gator,...you attacked my character and have abused me and treated me like filth when I have never merited it.

We all know you will never man up and apologise.

So if anyone here is a chickenshit, anyone here is a coward...its you, Gator.

Go ahead, use those awesome admin powers and ban me. Delete the post (oh wait, don't worry, thats what ctrl and print screen is for)

And you will have proven every word I have said here to be 100% correct.


gator, the legend, the man - the KING.:D

JB
06-02-2008, 06:58 PM
Who the hell is this guy, the all-powerful Oz? Some folks give him too much credit simply for posting stupid shit. It's ones and zeros on a messageboard. Always has been, always will be.

If you let gator get under your skin, grow a pair.

Sonnabend
06-02-2008, 07:11 PM
JB...you may very well be right,old friend, but there are limits.

Shannon
06-02-2008, 07:12 PM
Who the hell is this guy, the all-powerful Oz? Some folks give him too much credit simply for posting stupid shit. It's ones and zeros on a messageboard. Always has been, always will be.

If you let gator get under your skin, grow a pair.

I will never understand why some people let Gator rile them so.

Sonnabend
06-02-2008, 07:15 PM
Oh, I'm not riled...I'm not even annoyed. Sitting here with a muffin and cocoa on a cold Tuesday morning in Sydney :)

SaintLouieWoman
06-02-2008, 07:15 PM
I won't add anything else to this thread. We don't need this while the newly designed board is back up and running. My suggestion is to let this thread die the death it so rightly deserves.

Gator feeds on this stuff; it's best to ignore it and consider the source.

gator
06-02-2008, 07:17 PM
Then, I apologize. Now that you mention it, I do remember you saying that you disagreed with him on that. But he was still your candidate, and it makes it hard to take it seriously when you call people chickenshits because they voted for a politician who is pulling troops out when you were backing a candidate with the same intentions.

I wasn't here in '04, so I can't comment on the "Joh Kerry was right" stuff.

I don't ever remember in my life saying "John Kerry was right" on anything. I think that is a fabrication on somebody's part to suggest that I ever said that. Maybe even a damn right lie. If you know me then you know that is completely out of character for me. I loath John Kerry and think he is a traitor to this country.

Ron Paul was a hard decision for me because I disagree with him on several of his Libertarian views. I am not so sure I think he would make a good President. It was safe to vote for him in the Primaries because I knew he was not going to win. It was more of a protest vote against the NeoCons than anything.

Ron Paul at least knew what the problems were and that is more than I could say for any of the NeoCons or Liberals. Whether or not he would be effective in dealing with the problems is a whole different question. His record of earmarks in his Texas Congressional District indicated to me that at the end of the day he would probably compromise with the big government NeoCons and Liberals and not much would really change.

I think we are pass the point where any elected official or group of elected officials can change the big government and Interventionist attitude. I think it is time for the revolution our Founding Fathers said we would need every once in awhile to reestablish the Republic and the Constitution.

Phillygirl
06-02-2008, 07:36 PM
Oh, I'm not riled...I'm not even annoyed. Sitting here with a muffin and cocoa on a cold Tuesday morning in Sydney :)

Good to hear. What kind of muffin?

Sonnabend
06-02-2008, 07:43 PM
Oh, just an ordinary one.

*munch*

All gone :D

Phillygirl
06-02-2008, 07:47 PM
Oh, just an ordinary one.

*munch*

All gone :D

Corn muffin sounds good right about now.

Shannon
06-02-2008, 07:51 PM
Corn muffin sounds good right about now.

Careful. You could get fatter eating that type of stuff.

Phillygirl
06-02-2008, 07:54 PM
Careful. You could get fatter eating that type of stuff.

Impossible. I'm a sow as it is.

Bubba Dawg
06-02-2008, 08:00 PM
Corn muffin sounds good right about now.


You like cornbread? You are a goddess.

gator
06-02-2008, 08:10 PM
The latest on the decision to get the toops out. Nothing in here about a new mission. It is all Let Wing Bush bashing and anti Americanism. The same thing we got from France and Canada a few years ago.


Why Australia is leaving Iraq

Prime Minister Rudd criticized the US justification for the 2003 invasion of Iraq as 550 Australian troops packed up to leave.

By Nick Squires | Correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor
from the June 3, 2008 edition


Sydney, Australia - Australia's prime minister said Monday that the reasons used to justify joining the war in Iraq turned out to be false.

Labor leader Kevin Rudd made the remarks a day after ordering his country's 550 combat troops to head home after five years in Iraq.

As one of the United States' staunchest allies, Australia was quick to pledge military support for the US-led coalition invasion of Iraq in 2003. But that decision was made by conservative prime minister John Howard, whose 11 years in office came to an end in November's election.

Bringing home Australia's small but politically significant contingent of combat troops was one of Mr. Rudd's main election campaign pledges.

He dismissed one by one the reasons used by the Howard administration – and by association the Bush administration – to topple Saddam Hussein.

"Have further terrorist attacks been prevented? No, they have not been, as the victims of the Madrid train bombing will attest," Rudd told Parliament.

"Has any evidence of a link between weapons of mass destruction and the former Iraqi regime and terrorists been found? No.

"Have the actions of rogue states like Iran been moderated? No ... Iran's nuclear ambitions remain a fundamental challenge.

"After five years, has the humanitarian crisis in Iraq been removed? No, it has not."

Rudd said there had been a "failure to disclose to the Australian people the qualified nature of the intelligence. For example, the prewar warning that an attack on Iraq would increase the terrorist threat, not decrease it."

In response to Rudd's remarks, White House spokeswoman Dana Perino told reporters Monday that "we acted on the intelligence that we had.... No one else in the world, no other government, had different information and so we acted based on what was the threat that was presented to us."

Rudd, a former diplomat, also dismissed his predecessor's argument that Australia had been obliged to send troops to Iraq because of its longstanding alliance with the US. He said that while he valued the alliance, it did not mean that Canberra should automatically accede to US requests for military support.

Australia's defense minister, Joel Fitzgibbon, said that the country's military was overstretched with commitments in East Timor, Afghanistan, and Iraq. "Roughly half of our infantry and cavalry is somehow tied to those deployments. This is an unsustainable position," he said.

But Rudd said Australia would continue to keep its 1,000 troops now deployed in Afghanistan.

Brendan Nelson, leader of the opposition Liberal Party, said Australia's troops should stay in Iraq and continue their a training role. .

Australian troops helped train 33,000 Iraqi Army soldiers and did reconstruction and aid work.

Rudd said 27 Australian soldiers had been wounded in Iraq since 2003. None had been killed.

Australia will still have about 800 military personnel in and around Iraq, including a 110-strong diplomatic security detachment in Baghdad, sailors on warships in the Persian Gulf, and Royal Australian Air Force crew.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0603/p04s01-wome.html

Sonnabend
06-03-2008, 07:23 AM
Gator has personally called me a coward on at least two occasions.This is not about politics. This is a vicious personal attack on me.

Gators attitude is everyone should serve and those that don't are "chickenshits". Gator personally abuses members and gets away with it because he is an admin. To date he has never apologised for that vicious, unwarranted slur on my character, nor will he ever.

Witness the "male nurse" epithets...apparently to him, nurses are also beneath contempt.

Gator abuses his power, abuses the privilege of his position and is a hypocrite.

I am no coward, and I do not have to serve, or do anything else to prove otherwise..and we all know Gator will never back down or apologise or admit he was wrong or that he was out of line.

Even when everyone but him can see that he has stepped out of line.

Gator treats everyone with contempt and slags off at members whenever he feels like it.

Had this thread been started by anyone else, the thread would be gone and the member banned. This is not about politics and never was. Gator has attacked my character, treated me and others with derision and scorn, and gotten away with conduct that no one else here ever would be.

You called me a coward, Gator,...you attacked my character and have abused me and treated me like filth when I have never merited it.

We all know you will never man up and apologise.

So if anyone here is a chickenshit, anyone here is a coward...its you, Gator.

Go ahead, use those awesome admin powers and ban me. Delete the post (oh wait, don't worry, thats what ctrl and print screen is for)

And you will have proven every word I have said here to be 100% correct.

cclanofirish
06-07-2008, 11:03 PM
Gator has personally called me a coward on at least two occasions.This is not about politics. This is a vicious personal attack on me.

Gators attitude is everyone should serve and those that don't are "chickenshits". Gator personally abuses members and gets away with it because he is an admin. To date he has never apologised for that vicious, unwarranted slur on my character, nor will he ever.

Witness the "male nurse" epithets...apparently to him, nurses are also beneath contempt.

Gator abuses his power, abuses the privilege of his position and is a hypocrite.

I am no coward, and I do not have to serve, or do anything else to prove otherwise..and we all know Gator will never back down or apologise or admit he was wrong or that he was out of line.

Even when everyone but him can see that he has stepped out of line.

Gator treats everyone with contempt and slags off at members whenever he feels like it.

Had this thread been started by anyone else, the thread would be gone and the member banned. This is not about politics and never was. Gator has attacked my character, treated me and others with derision and scorn, and gotten away with conduct that no one else here ever would be.

You called me a coward, Gator,...you attacked my character and have abused me and treated me like filth when I have never merited it.

We all know you will never man up and apologise.

So if anyone here is a chickenshit, anyone here is a coward...its you, Gator.

Go ahead, use those awesome admin powers and ban me. Delete the post (oh wait, don't worry, thats what ctrl and print screen is for)

And you will have proven every word I have said here to be 100% correct.

I couldn't agree more Sonnabend. I find it interesting that Gator can attack with pure vicious hatred anyone and their family members on this board; when the same is done to him, or his relatives, he becomes an absolute pussy.