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View Full Version : Who, exactly, is clamoring for Gov. healthcare?



patriot45
07-21-2009, 10:06 AM
Well no one I know! But Neal has a great take on it, from Nealz Nuze!
Link (http://boortz.com/nealz_nuze/2009/07/continuing-our-countdown-to-fa.html)


Have you noticed something rather odd about Obama's seizure of America's health care system? This odd little fact has been hiding, as they say, in plain sight. The only people who are really pushing this government takeover of health care are "activists" or politicians. There is absolutely no public pressure to get this done.

Why so fast? It's depressing that Americans either don't care or are unable to connect some simple dots. Remember Rahm Emmanuel's proclamation that the Obama administration should not "let a good crisis go to waste"? It doesn't matter, you see, that the American people aren't clamoring for government health care. What matters is that the Democrats have the opportunity to seize control of one-sixth of the American economy, and they're going to do whatever they can to get it done. The biggest thing that the fascist Democrats have going for them right now is our economic downturn. There's your crisis. Now you take advantage of it ... you don't let it go to waste.

Come on now ... how many of you believe Obama when he says that the key to solving our economic crisis is to reform health care? Who is he kidding? The key to our crisis is to somehow cleanse our financial institutions of these toxic assets they're carrying (courtesy of the federal government) and get the banks lending and the people spending again. Health care plays no role here, but the Democrats want this power - this control - so they're using your economic angst to talk you into supporting their takeover of almost 20% of our economy.

We had better wake up, my friends. There are at least three inevitable results of this Democrat grab for power:

1.Higher taxes and costs for everyone,
2.Rationing of health care
3.A decrease in the quality of our health care
Better fight this now - once they get the power you won't have a prayer.

satanica
07-21-2009, 10:13 AM
Well no one I know! But Neal has a great take on it, from Nealz Nuze!
Link (http://boortz.com/nealz_nuze/2009/07/continuing-our-countdown-to-fa.html)

First, over 70% of Americans want this. http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGIH_enUS287US287&q=72%25+public+option

If you believe a majority are against it I suggest you post a poll.

The only people who are really pushing this government takeover of health care are "activists" or politicians. There is absolutely no public pressure to get this done.

Ya, OK ... Like I said, If you really think that a majority are against this, then post a poll.


The key to our crisis is to somehow cleanse our financial institutions of these toxic assets they're carrying (courtesy of the federal government) and get the banks lending and the people spending again. Health care plays no role here

People are being crushed by Health Care costs, to tell them it plays no part in their financial problems is idiotic.

We had better wake up, my friends. There are at least three inevitable results of this Democrat grab for power:

1.Higher taxes and costs for everyone,

The same thing was said when Clinton took office ...the exact opposite happened.

The repubs claimed record deficits, the reality was record surpluses....and you idiots still act as if you have credibility.

stsinner
07-21-2009, 10:17 AM
Satanica, you're an idiot.

The only people who want this bloated crap are the welfare bums, crimigrants and the politicians who won't be affected by it.. Anyone else knows that putting 50 million uninsured into the same pool with us will decrease the quality of care we receive and increase wait times to the extent that people will die before receiving treatment. It's happening and Britain, and it's happening in Canada, and every other place where socialized medicine is practiced.

satanica
07-21-2009, 10:25 AM
Satanica, you're an idiot.

The only people who want this bloated crap are the welfare bums, crimigrants and the politicians who won't be affected by it...

I posted a poll that shows the VAST majority of Americans want this.

Where is your link, source, or poll ? Your opinion means jack shit to me.

PoliCon
07-21-2009, 10:34 AM
polls lie. ESPECIALLY when the people conducting them have an agenda.

satanica
07-21-2009, 10:35 AM
polls lie. ESPECIALLY when the people conducting them have an agenda.

But of course. :rolleyes:

I am reading the nation by looking at the polls.

What are you looking at to form your opinion ?

PoliCon
07-21-2009, 10:36 AM
But of course. :rolleyes:

I am reading the nation by looking at the polls.

What are you looking at to form your opinion ?

lol REALITY. You should try it sometime.

patriot45
07-21-2009, 10:37 AM
But of course. :rolleyes:

I am reading the nation by looking at the polls.

What are you looking at to form your opinion ?

Why don't they poll conservatives or taxpayers? Your polls are from your ilk, deadbeats.

Zathras
07-21-2009, 10:40 AM
I posted a poll that shows the VAST majority of Americans want this.

Really? And just how many people did they poll? 500? 1000? To make the claim that "the VAST majority of Americans want this" bassed on a poll is absurd at the best and decietful at the worst. Till they poll EVERY American, you can't honestly say that the vast majority want this.

satanica
07-21-2009, 10:46 AM
Why don't they poll conservatives or taxpayers? Your polls are from your ilk, deadbeats.

I ask again.

What is forming your opinion, if not the polls ?

patriot45
07-21-2009, 10:57 AM
I ask again.

What is forming your opinion, if not the polls ?

Are you really that stupid?
I am conservative, I don't want more expansion of the government. I want them out of my life and pocket.
Like I would put any worth in a jackass poll.

stsinner
07-21-2009, 11:07 AM
I posted a poll that shows the VAST majority of Americans want this.

Where is your link, source, or poll ? Your opinion means jack shit to me.

Even if your numbers were true, which most polls are full of crap unless they're Zogby or some other reputable polling agency that polls only likely voters, instead of just Americans, I couldn't give a crap less if the majority of the idiots in this country want something that is bad for us. I have no faith in the judgment of the majority of Americans after the last election where they elected Obama-the great wealth destroyer not based on his experience because he had none; not based on his judgment because he had no voting track record aside from Present; not based on his foreign policy experience because he had none; not based on his bi-partisanship because he was a demonstrable racist and member of a racist, anti-American church.. What's left? That's right-skin color and a vague and lazy message of change that only the brain-dead embraced.

The American people have proven gulible, by and large, and now all of our efforts must simply be directed at protecting the country from itself.

Gingersnap
07-21-2009, 11:56 AM
Americans are all for a "public option" that they don't have to pay for and that they will never be enrolled in. Most people are broadly "for" Medicaid but I know of no one who wants to be on it.

When people realize that bill requires enrollment in the public option any time you drop your current insurance (say, if you change jobs) and prevents you from enrolling in a new private program, we'll see how well they like it. We'll see how they like being forced into the public option if their employer prefers to pay the 8% rather than fund and manage private health care plans.

If this happens, people will wake up to the fact that they now partially owned by the government. If the government pays for your treatment, the government has a vested interest in ensuring that you need treatment as little possible and as cheaply as possible. Therefore, there's really nothing much to stop the government from running your private life. They'll start with smoking and foods and eventually get around to drinking, recreational drugs, sexual habits, reproductive choices, and activity levels.

Of course, this is the same government that has been consistently wrong when it comes to prevention schemes such as sex education, D.A.R.E., flood control, low birth weight babies, or nutrition education, to name a few.

Elspeth
07-21-2009, 12:17 PM
But of course. :rolleyes:

I am reading the nation by looking at the polls.

What are you looking at to form your opinion ?

Satanita,

Polls are crucially dependent upon (a) sample size and selection and (b) the framing of the questions. Telephone polls, like that done by the NYTimes (your "proof" in the link above) are notoriously fraught with sampling errors (too small, too skewed, etc.) and contain biased or leading questions. Rarely does a newspaper or special interest group ask a straightforward question of a truly random sample of the population. Questions are not: "Do you want government run public health care, yes or no?" Rather, they are "If a public option like Medicare were available to you, would you sign up for it?" While seeming to be the same question, it is not. The first question actually asks you about your opinion on public health care. The second asks you if you'd take something for free if it were available. Who wouldn't take something for free? I could ask the same question about free cable TV or free pizza for a year and get the same response.

That is why I do not trust newspaper polls or those done by special interest groups. Their purpose is to create an impression of a public desire and they are not done as a real statistician looking for real data would do.

lacarnut
07-21-2009, 12:31 PM
The poll ask the question are you in favor of a government health care system in competition with PRIVATE INSURERS. That is the key word. If the pollster was honest, they would inform the public that the government will eventually force them into the government system and their choice will be taken away. But, no they have an agenda to skew the poll. If this legislation passes, private insurers will not be able to compete because the government does not care about profit. It will wind up being a government health care system with NO choice. I am surprised that legislation of imprisoned of a Doctor seeing a patient on the side was not inserted in the bill like Hillary care legislation.

Elspeth
07-21-2009, 12:37 PM
The poll ask the question are you in favor of a government health care system in competition with PRIVATE INSURERS. That is the key word. If the pollster was honest, they would inform the public that the government will eventually force them into the government system and their choice will be taken away. But, no they have an agenda to skew the poll. If this legislation passes, private insurers will not be able to compete because the government does not care about profit. It will wind up being a government health care system with NO choice. I am surprised that legislation of imprisoned of a Doctor seeing a patient on the side was not inserted in the bill like Hillary care legislation.

Another example of skewing the questions.

lacarnut
07-21-2009, 12:49 PM
Another example of skewing the questions.

When you are too lazy to hold a job, assholes like Satan do not care cause they will be getting their insurance free while the rest of us have to pay for ours.

satanica
07-21-2009, 02:43 PM
When you are too lazy to hold a job, assholes like Satan do not care cause they will be getting their insurance free while the rest of us have to pay for ours.

How do I and others get "our insurance free" ?

I would sure like to know how that happens. Oh the irony of YOU telling me I don't know anything.

Elspeth
07-21-2009, 03:27 PM
How do I and others get "our insurance free" ?

I would sure like to know how that happens. Oh the irony of YOU telling me I don't know anything.

If you truly wanted to know something, you would read the more informative posts. As it is, you just want to fight and you read only those posts that will lead to that end.

lacarnut
07-21-2009, 04:07 PM
How do I and others get "our insurance free" ?

I would sure like to know how that happens. Oh the irony of YOU telling me I don't know anything.

Those that do not work or are low wage earners will get it free. That's why my rates will go up and my care go down so that the government can insure those that do not have insurance.

You stated that you are unemployed. Why don't you get off your lazy ass and get a job? I know that you are leech on society.

Constitutionally Speaking
07-21-2009, 06:31 PM
First, over 70% of Americans want this. http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGIH_enUS287US287&q=72%25+public+option


70% want some type of reform according to your poll, but that does not mean they want THIS reform. In fact, according to this poll only 49% support this plan.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/19/AR2009071902176.html?hpid=topnews

You also are operating under the assumption that people are basing their desire for reform on their satisfaction with their own health care. They are not. 75-80 % are happy with their own plan (of course you have to read WAY down the article to find this)

Instead the news media focuses on the point you try to make while ignoring simple logic.

Most people like their own coverage but support reform. The only logical answer for that is they want OTHER people to have better coverage. That is very nice and all good. EXCEPT the reason they think this is they are being mislead as to the actual scope of the problems we DO have.


For example: you hear the left constantly harping on 45- 50 million Americans who have no health insurance and OF COURSE your heart goes out to them.

Unfortunately this is a GROSS misrepresentation of reality.

This gives the impression that 45 million people do not have health insurance period. That is a lie.

The actual fact is 45 million people did not have coverage AT SOME POINT in the past. That is what the actual study says. You sure wouldn't get that impression from the mainstream media.

What is more astounding is that about 45% of this figure finds coverage in a relatively short period of time. These people are mostly people who go from one job to another and have a gap in coverage until their new employer's plan takes effect.

If you take 50 million (and you will note I gave the high end estimate you liberals use and then ADDED some just to be fair) - if you take 50 million people and reduce that number by the 45% you end up with 27.5 million people who are not covered.


10- 12 million of these people are not even citizens!!!!! take the 27.5 million and subtract 10 million non citizens and you get 17.5 million people.


9 million of THESE people make 25% more than the median average income and can afford to pay for coverage themselves, but choose not to. 17.5 million less 9 million = 8.5 million people - THIS is the REAL scope of the problem - or IS it?



In 2003 BCBS did a study that showed about 14 million uninsured people actually qualify for government programs but simply did not bother to apply!!!!!



Now, there IS some overlap on these numbers, and there ARE people who really need help, but the fact of the matter is that the problem is NOWHERE NEAR as bad what you liberals keep trying to tell us. The problem is that you want to scrap a system that provides the best care in the world http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_7UlAg7gKPVI/SiZokc94BAI/AAAAAAAAAhk/t9_FHLxFfR0/s1600-h/US-Health-785647.gif for one that is inferior and in doing so, you will destroy millions of jobs, deny ALL citizens freedom of choice and give the government the power of life and death over us.


When people actually learn the facts, they tend to reject your type of reforms overwhelmingly.



Here is the study that you guys keep quoting to show 47 million uninsured - if you look into it though you will find the items I have pointed out.

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/p60_235sa.pdf

satanica
07-21-2009, 06:56 PM
70% want some type of reform according to your poll, but that does not mean they want THIS reform.

Oh really ? ... I disagree, and will do something you would never do, ....back up my claim.

From the article in question ....

The national telephone survey, which was conducted from June 12 to 16, found that 72 percent of those questioned supported a government-administered insurance plan something like Medicare for those under 65 that would compete for customers with private insurers. Twenty percent said they were opposed.


In fact, according to this poll only 49% support this plan.

I don't see the number 49% any where in that article


For example: you hear the left constantly harping on 45- 50 million Americans who have no health insurance and OF COURSE your heart goes out to them.

Unfortunately this is a GROSS misrepresentation of reality.

This gives the impression that 45 million people do not have health insurance period. That is a lie.

Of course you would never post a link to back up your idiotic claim, but I wil post a link. I hope the US Census Bureau will do....

Data released today by the Census Bureau show that the number of uninsured Americans stood at a record 46.6 million in 2005, with http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=628


The actual fact is 45 million people did not have coverage AT SOME POINT in the past. That is what the actual study says. You sure wouldn't get that impression from the mainstream media.

The study, commissioned by the consumer health advocacy group Families USA, found 86.7 million Americans were uninsured at one point during the past two years

LOL, Lets do the math, shall we ? ...87 million over two years means 43 million per year, the same number the US Census Bureau has listed. When you make this statement...


The actual fact is 45 million people did not have coverage AT SOME POINT in the past

You mean to say 86 million over two years, and 43 million in the last year. The number is 43 million PER YEAR, not "at some point in the past"

One year is 43 million, two years is 86 million, just like the study you are quoting says, and just like the US Census Bureau says.



If you take 50 million (and you will note I gave the high end estimate you liberals use and then ADDED some just to be fair) - if you take 50 million people and reduce that number by the 45% you end up with 27.5 million people who are not covered.

If you think there are only 28 million uninsured per year, then you disagree with the US Census Bureau, and you disagree with the study you are quoting....this study...

The study, commissioned by the consumer health advocacy group Families USA, found 86.7 million Americans were uninsured at one point during the past two years. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1T4GGIH_enUS287US287&q=million+uninsured&aq=f&oq=&aqi=g1



10- 12 million of these people are not even citizens!!!!! take the 27.5 million and subtract 10 million non citizens and you get 17.5 million people.

Lets see the link that backs this up ? ..hell. Lets see one person who also holds this view.



When people actually learn the facts, they tend to reject your type of reforms overwhelmingly.

Ya, facts. Notice my post is full of links to back up my claims...and yours, well, it's the same old story.

Constitutionally Speaking
07-21-2009, 07:02 PM
Of course you would never post a link to back up your idiotic claim, but I wil post a link. I hope the US Census Bureau will do....




Hey idiot. I POSTED the same Census study - only i READ IT and you obviously did not.


Look to the details most of the information I used to take this apart came right from the study itself.

Constitutionally Speaking
07-21-2009, 07:07 PM
In fact, according to this poll only 49% support this plan.
I don't see the number 49% any where in that article



You would have to be able to read - my bad. Here, I'll paste it here in bold letters for you:



Since April, approval of Obama's handling of health care has dropped from 57 percent to 49 percent

satanica
07-21-2009, 07:09 PM
Hey idiot. I POSTED the same Census study - only i READ IT and you obviously did not.


Look to the details most of the information I used to take this apart came right from the study itself.

Here is what it says...

The study, commissioned by the consumer health advocacy group Families USA, found 86.7 million Americans were uninsured at one point during the past two years


86 million over two years is 43 million a year....can we agree on this simple math problem ?

And you call me a idiot ? ... You clearly didn't understand what you were reading.

BadCat
07-21-2009, 07:11 PM
Here is what it says...

The study, commissioned by the consumer health advocacy group Families USA, found 86.7 million Americans were uninsured at one point during the past two years


86 million over two years is 43 million a year....can we agree on this simple math problem ?

And you call me a idiot ? ... You clearly didn't understand what you were reading.

Why don't you buy them insurance, Blarch?

satanica
07-21-2009, 07:12 PM
You would have to be able to read - my bad. Here, I'll paste it here in bold letters for you:

I want a public option, and I don't like the way he is handleing the issue.

The article CLEARLY says ...

The national telephone survey, which was conducted from June 12 to 16, found that 72 percent of those questioned supported a government-administered insurance plan something like Medicare for those under 65

The 49% are like me, they don't like the way he is going about getting this public option....but make no mistake, the people want the PO

patriot45
07-21-2009, 07:13 PM
Here is what it says...

The study, commissioned by the consumer health advocacy group Families USA, found 86.7 million Americans were uninsured at one point during the past two years


86 million over two years is 43 million a year....can we agree on this simple math problem ?

And you call me a idiot ? ... You clearly didn't understand what you were reading.

What does -" at one point" mean?

I'm glad you have the conviction to stand by all your wrong thoughts, definatly a confirmed deranged liberal.

satanica
07-21-2009, 07:15 PM
What does -" at one point" mean?

I'm glad you have the conviction to stand by all your wrong thoughts, definatly a confirmed deranged liberal.


Yep. 86 million over two years means that there were 43 million per year.

Can we agree on this ?

Constitutionally Speaking
07-21-2009, 07:18 PM
Your quote on 83 million does not disagree with what I posted!!!


The Census study says AT SOME POINT in the last year. You want to expand it to two years - fine it makes no difference.

Just as I said HERE:


For example: you hear the left constantly harping on 45- 50 million Americans who have no health insurance and OF COURSE your heart goes out to them.

Unfortunately this is a GROSS misrepresentation of reality.

This gives the impression that 45 million people do not have health insurance period. That is a lie.

The actual fact is 45 million people did not have coverage AT SOME POINT in the past. That is what the actual study says. You sure wouldn't get that impression from the mainstream media.


Instead of ending the sentence with past it SHOULD have read past year, so I'll grant you that, but from the rest of the post you would EASILY have picked that up.

satanica
07-21-2009, 07:20 PM
And can we agree on this sentence... That it says 72% want a public option ?

The national telephone survey, which was conducted from June 12 to 16, found that 72 percent of those questioned supported a government-administered insurance plan something like Medicare for those under 65

Constitutionally Speaking
07-21-2009, 07:21 PM
Yep. 86 million over two years means that there were 43 million per year.

Can we agree on this ?


That is NOT the impression it gives and you KNOW it. The impression that is given and PURPOSELY so is that there are 45 million people (or if you wish 86 million) that do not HAVE insurance.

Go look at the quotes from ALL of the politicians - they ALL say there are 45 million people WITHOUT insurance - and at ANY point in time this is a lie.

The actual study says at SOME POINT in the last year.

If you are not smart enough to know there is a HUGE difference then you DESERVE to be unemployed - you are a hazard to anyone you work with.

satanica
07-21-2009, 07:25 PM
And.. You made the claim that when the Liberals say 45 million people are not insured, it is a lie.

The actual fact is 45 million people did not have coverage AT SOME POINT in the past. That is what the actual study says. You sure wouldn't get that impression from the mainstream media.

So now you agree that it is 43-45 million per year ?

Instead of ending the sentence with past it SHOULD have read past year, so I'll grant you that


Duh. Ya, 43 million in the past year. you said 43 million is a lie.

But now you agree ? ...HOLY SHIT

satanica
07-21-2009, 07:27 PM
The national telephone survey, which was conducted from June 12 to 16, found that 72 percent of those questioned supported a government-administered insurance plan something like Medicare for those under 65

Can we agree that this says the American people want a public option ?

Shannon
07-21-2009, 07:30 PM
The national telephone survey, which was conducted from June 12 to 16, found that 72 percent of those questioned supported a government-administered insurance plan something like Medicare for those under 65

Can we agree that this says the American people want a public option ?

Public option. *snicker*

Constitutionally Speaking
07-21-2009, 07:32 PM
And.. You made the claim that when the Liberals say 45 million people are not insured, it is a lie.

The actual fact is 45 million people did not have coverage AT SOME POINT in the past. That is what the actual study says. You sure wouldn't get that impression from the mainstream media.

So now you agree that it is 43-45 million per year ?

Instead of ending the sentence with past it SHOULD have read past year, so I'll grant you that


Duh. Ya, 43 million in the past year. you said 43 million is a lie.

But now you agree ? ...HOLY SHIT



The only holy shit is how incredibly stupid you are. At SOME point in the past year is NOT the same as having that number (ANY NUMBER) at a fixed point in time.


The left TRIES to mislead people into believing that there are 45-47 million RIGHT NOW without insurance when the fact of the matter is that roughly 45% of them have FOUND coverage,10 million are not citizens, 9 million*** earn enough to pay for it themselves and 14 million or so QUALIFY for coverage but don't care enough to apply!!!

Again, there IS some overlap but the left is purposely trying to mislead people.

***(actually 17 million but I only included those who make at least $25,000 more than the median annual income)

satanica
07-21-2009, 07:34 PM
The national telephone survey, which was conducted from June 12 to 16, found that 72 percent of those questioned supported a government-administered insurance plan something like Medicare for those under 65

Can we agree that this says the American people want a public option ?

patriot45
07-21-2009, 07:35 PM
The only holy shit is how incredibly stupid you are. At SOME point in the past year is NOT the same as having that number (ANY NUMBER) at a fixed point in time.


The left TRIES to mislead people into believing that there are 45-47 million RIGHT NOW without insurance when the fact of the matter is that roughly 45% of them have FOUND coverage, another 10 million are not citizens another 9 million (actually 17 million but I only included those who make at least $25,000 more than the median) earn enough to pay for it themselves and 14 million or so QUALIFY for coverage but don't care enough to apply!!!

Don't bother, you are arguing with a lunatic who has this as his desktop!

A tough liberal sissy!
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i230/patriot45270/alfrankendiapers.jpg

Rockntractor
07-21-2009, 07:39 PM
The national telephone survey, which was conducted from June 12 to 16, found that 72 percent of those questioned supported a government-administered insurance plan — something like Medicare for those under 65

Can we agree that this says the American people want a public option ?
If everyone had a landline it might have some relevance but they no longer do. You are basically stuck on stupid!

satanica
07-21-2009, 07:41 PM
If everyone had a landline it might have some relevance but they no longer do. You are basically stuck on stupid!

Ya, OK.

Rockntractor
07-21-2009, 07:43 PM
Ya, OK.

Where is your buddy Jappy gerbil?

Constitutionally Speaking
07-21-2009, 07:46 PM
And can we agree on this sentence... That it says 72% want a public option ?

The national telephone survey, which was conducted from June 12 to 16, found that 72 percent of those questioned supported a government-administered insurance plan — something like Medicare for those under 65


There is no reason to deny that is what THIS survey says. It does say that, but WHY do they say that??? I would argue it is because they have been mislead by people who MISUSE the Census study.

I would also argue that that support has rapidly eroded.

BadCat
07-21-2009, 07:47 PM
The national telephone survey, which was conducted from June 12 to 16, found that 72 percent of those questioned supported a government-administered insurance plan something like Medicare for those under 65

Can we agree that this says the American people want a public option ?

And there are polls that show 50-80% oppose it.

satanica
07-21-2009, 07:51 PM
There is no reason to deny that is what your survey says.

Then why did you post this ....

70% want some type of reform according to your poll, but that does not mean they want THIS reform. In fact, according to this poll only 49% support this plan


If there is no reason to deny it, then why did you deny it ?

Rockntractor
07-21-2009, 07:54 PM
Then why did you post this ....

70% want some type of reform according to your poll, but that does not mean they want THIS reform. In fact, according to this poll only 49% support this plan


If there is no reason to deny it, then why did you deny it ?

We don't want the government taking healthcare over. Were you breast fed?

Constitutionally Speaking
07-21-2009, 08:07 PM
Then why did you post this ....

70% want some type of reform according to your poll, but that does not mean they want THIS reform. In fact, according to this poll only 49% support this plan


If there is no reason to deny it, then why did you deny it ?


I didn't. I stated the facts. 49% don't want Obama's plan. That is what I was referring to when I said THIS reform.


I also believe that this poll is taken of people who have been mislead by the media and the liberals who claim there are 45-47 million Americans without insurance.

satanica
07-21-2009, 08:11 PM
I didn't. I stated the facts. 49% don't want Obama's plan. That is what I was referring to when I said THIS reform.


I also believe that this poll is taken of people who have been mislead by the media and the liberals who claim there are 45-47 million Americans without insurance.

LOL.

49% is NOT a poll about his plan.

It's about how he is handleing the issue.

And you think you stated facts ?

lacarnut
07-21-2009, 08:13 PM
I just hung up on a Congress critter wanting me to participate in a town hall meeting. Screw that. I would rather e-mail them giving my displeasure of legislation rather than answering a bunch of stupid questions like my age, my political affiliation, if I am a homeowner, etc. which is none of their business.

I have pollsters calling me all the time. I just hang up on them. The last one I participated in was a Democratic asshole that wanted to know my reasons/arguing for not supporting Obama and his policies.

Constitutionally Speaking
07-21-2009, 08:21 PM
LOL.

49% is NOT a poll about his plan.

It's about how he is handleing the issue.

And you think you stated facts ?



If you wish to argue semantics, feel free, but it only shows the shallowness of your argument.


I have noticed that you have been avoiding the breakdown I did of the Census study on the issue.

What's up with that??

satanica
07-21-2009, 08:24 PM
If you wish to argue semantics, feel free, but it only shows the shallowness of your argument.


I have noticed that you have been avoiding the breakdown I did of the Census study on the issue.

What's up with that??

The only breakdown is between the two braincells inside your head.

Semantics ? ..I guess we could say that during the year 2005 there were 43 million people uninsured at one point during the year.

45 million without insurance, within one year, and you are bragging about it ?

Rockntractor
07-21-2009, 08:26 PM
The only breakdown is between the two braincells inside your head.

Semantics ? ..I guess we could say that during the year 2005 there were 43 million people uninsured at one point during the year.

45 million without insurance, within one year, and you are bragging about it ?

Brain cells. Two words idiot!

Constitutionally Speaking
07-21-2009, 08:43 PM
The only breakdown is between the two braincells inside your head.

Semantics ? ..I guess we could say that during the year 2005 there were 43 million people uninsured at one point during the year.

45 million without insurance, within one year, and you are bragging about it ?


What led you to believe that I was bragging about it??? I stated it was misleading. I stated that it included 10 million non citizens.

I stated that 45% of those HAVE insurance now.

I stated that 9 million of them make $25,000 more than the median income and can afford to pay for their own health care but CHOOSE not to.

I also stated that 14 million QUALIFY for government insurance but have not bothered to apply.

I also have stated that the Democrats and people like you are TRYING to give the impression that there are 47 million people out there today that are not covered by insurance.

It is very misleading and it is one of the reasons for your poll you love to point to.


The Republicans have put forth a plan to handle the 45% of these who miss coverage for a short while - Google legislation on portability of health insurance and you will see several plans put forth by Republicans to deal with this issue.

So there ARE methods of fixing these issues out there - my personal plan is to have companies stop providing health care benefits altogether (allow employees to substitute cash of equal value for insurance coverage and give individuals the same (or better) tax advantages that corporations now have when they invest in health care plan of their choice) - This would solve any issues for the vast majority of people and we can then deal with the rest with some other method ( I prefer private charities but am open to suggestion).

satanica
07-21-2009, 08:46 PM
What led you to believe that I was bragging about it??? I stated it was misleading. I stated that it included 10 million non citizens.

I stated that 45% of those HAVE insurance now.

I stated that 9 million of them make $25,000 more than the median income and can afford to pay for their own health care but CHOOSE not to.

I also stated that 14 million QUALIFY for government insurance but have not bothered to apply.

I also have stated that the Democrats and people like you are TRYING to give the impression that there are 47 million people out there today that are not covered by insurance.

It is very misleading and it is one of the reasons for your poll you love to point to.


The Republicans have put forth a plan to handle the 45% of these who miss coverage for a short while - Google legislation on portability of health insurance and you will see several plans put forth by Republicans to deal with this issue.

So there ARE methods of fixing these issues out there - my personal plan is to have companies stop issuing health care altogether (allow employees to substitute cash of equal value for insurance coverage and give individuals the same (or better) tax advantages that corporations now have when they invest in health care plan of their choice) - This would solve any issues for the vast majority of people and we can then deal with the rest with some other method ( I prefer private charities but am open to suggestion).


The President was elected to represent the American people, the American people want a strong public option plan.

The President is about to give the people what they want, you can kick and cry all you want, but this is the way it's going to be.

The adults are in charge now, not some drunk uneducated cowboy.

BadCat
07-21-2009, 08:51 PM
Adults?

You're high again, aren't you?

Constitutionally Speaking
07-21-2009, 08:55 PM
The President was elected to represent the American people, the American people want a strong public option plan.

The President is about to give the people what they want, you can kick and cry all you want, but this is the way it's going to be.

The adults are in charge now, not some drunk uneducated cowboy.


I would suggest you look at RECENT polling that shows people are catching on to the fraud the President is trying to force on us. Why do you think he is in such a rush???


Once people see what is in his plan, they reject it.

Zathras
07-21-2009, 09:28 PM
Originally Posted by satanica
And can we agree on this sentence... That it says 72% want a public option ?

Nope....72% of those polled want a public option. How many were polled, what are their ages, what is their political leanings and what were the questions asked? To say that this poll represents ALL AMERICANS is stupid and foolish...then again, that's something you're good at so I'm not surprised you'd think that it does.

Gingersnap
07-21-2009, 09:54 PM
I want a public option, and I don't like the way he is handleing the issue.

The article CLEARLY says ...

The national telephone survey, which was conducted from June 12 to 16, found that 72 percent of those questioned supported a government-administered insurance plan something like Medicare for those under 65

You won't even reply to my posts. I told you that people generally think it's cool for people to have a free program that they, themselves, will never have to access. Nobody I know wants to be on Medicaid. Most older boomers don't want to be on Medicare (although they have to enroll). No older person wants to rely on the Vet system. They do great on trauma and rehab but they are horrible with the diseases of aging. Nobody wants to be on the Indian "free" health care system and tribes that have come into money get their people off it as soon as possible.

People think there should be a minimal safety net for the destitute - they have zero interest in using that safety net themselves. They certainly know that no safety net program will deliver the quality of health care they are willing to pay for themselves.

I can get a same day appointment for any reason. All my preventative screening/vaccinations have no co-pay. If that screening reveals cardiovascular disease or cancer, I'll get an aggressive treatment program within a week. I can see a specialist within a week.

Why would I want to get on a government program that looks like the Canadian or U.K. system?

Zathras
07-21-2009, 10:57 PM
The adults are in charge now, not some drunk uneducated cowboy

Heh heh, that "drunk uneducated cowboy" as you so stupidly put it, is more intelligent, more educated, more of a man and will do more with his life in the positive than you'll ever dream of doing DUmbass. In other words, President Bush is a much better person than you'll ever dream of be. I can understand why you hate him though. People always hate those that are their betters. That's why you hate everyone here at CU as well