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patriot45
07-21-2009, 10:09 AM
Whats the difference? Its FREE!!! (http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/health_care_obama/2009/07/19/237484.html?s=al&promo_code=83A3-1)
It just gets more insane as we hear more facts, moonbats running the country.....into the ground!



On Friday, Democrats moved one step closer to giving free health insurance to the nation’s estimated 12 million illegal aliens when they successfully defeated a Republican-backed amendment, offered by Rep. Dean Heller, R-Nev., that would have prevented illegal aliens from receiving government-subsidized health care under the proposed plan backed by House Democrats and President Barack Obama.

The House Ways and Means Committee nixed the Heller amendment by a 26-to-15 vote along straight party lines, and followed this action by passing the 1,018-page bill early Friday morning by a 23-to-18 margin, with three Democrats voting against the plan.

The Democratic plan will embrace Obama’s vision of bringing free government medical care to more than 45 million uninsured people in America – a significant portion of whom are illegal aliens

satanica
07-21-2009, 10:17 AM
Holy Shit, I didn't realize the health care the government would be providing would be FREE.

The Democratic plan will embrace Obama’s vision of bringing free government medical care to more than 45 million uninsured people in America – a significant portion of whom are illegal aliens.

Really ? ...we will al recieve "FREE GOVERNMENT MEDICAL CARE" under the Obama plan ?

Another example of just how stupid you people are.

satanica
07-21-2009, 10:18 AM
On Friday, Democrats moved one step closer to giving free health insurance to the nation’s estimated 12 million illegal aliens

Really ? ...it's gonna be free ?

satanica
07-21-2009, 10:19 AM
Hey, Newsmax wouldn't lie. :rolleyes:

patriot45
07-21-2009, 10:24 AM
Hey, Newsmax wouldn't lie. :rolleyes:

You are no different from the rest of the moonbats who think when it comes from the government that it is "free".

There is no free ride.

satanica
07-21-2009, 10:26 AM
You are no different from the rest of the moonbats who think when it comes from the government that it is "free".

There is no free ride.

Then why does newsmax say it's gonna be free ?

Nobody anywhere ever said it would be free. But it didn't stop newsmax from posting this lie.

PoliCon
07-21-2009, 10:28 AM
Then why does newsmax say it's gonna be free ?

Nobody anywhere ever said it would be free. But it didn't stop newsmax from posting this lie.

So The Dems are going to make the poor pay for their insurance now? :eek:

satanica
07-21-2009, 10:30 AM
So The Dems are going to make the poor pay for their insurance now? :eek:

Do you agree with the OP ? ...that the new public option will be FREE ?

PoliCon
07-21-2009, 10:31 AM
Do you agree with the OP ? ...that the new public option will be FREE ?

Will Obama and the dems make the POOR pay for their insurance? If they are not paying for it - since they don't pay any taxes - then YES it will be free for them.

satanica
07-21-2009, 10:33 AM
Will Obama and the dems make the POOR pay for their insurance? If they are not paying for it - since they don't pay any taxes - then YES it will be free for them.

Link ?

Thats what I thought. FAIL.

PoliCon
07-21-2009, 10:38 AM
Link ?

Thats what I thought. FAIL.

Link to what? Reality? Which are you claiming? That these people who will be on the government option are not poor? that they pay taxes? or that they will be paying for their health insurance? Which is it?

satanica
07-21-2009, 02:59 PM
Will Obama and the dems make the POOR pay for their insurance? If they are not paying for it - since they don't pay any taxes - then YES it will be free for them.

How is that different from the last 20 years ?

An uninsured person goes to the emergency room and gets treated. We all pay for it.

This is how our system has been working for years, but now you want to blame Obama for it ? ...LOL

PoliCon
07-21-2009, 03:10 PM
How is that different from the last 20 years ?

An uninsured person goes to the emergency room and gets treated. We all pay for it.

This is how our system has been working for years, but now you want to blame Obama for it ? ...LOL

Prove your claim Kiki - you claim that it will not be free for them. So prove that it will not be free.

satanica
07-21-2009, 03:14 PM
Prove your claim Kiki - you claim that it will not be free for them. So prove that it will not be free.

Why should I disprove YOUR claim ?

It's YOUR claim, back it up.

Nobody anywhere, ever claimed the public option insurance would be offered for FREE to the American people.

You fucking idiot. Where did someone claim the public option would be free to Americans ?

BadCat
07-21-2009, 03:25 PM
Why should I disprove YOUR claim ?

It's YOUR claim, back it up.

Nobody anywhere, ever claimed the public option insurance would be offered for FREE to the American people.

You fucking idiot. Where did someone claim the public option would be free to Americans ?

If they are like YOU (worthless and unemployed) or ILLEGAL (like your pal Marko), then no taxes are paid, therefore you're getting something that WE are paying for. It's free for you worthless POS's, but those of us who actually PAY taxes get to pay for it.

And personally, the thought of that makes me ill.

satanica
07-21-2009, 03:34 PM
If they are like YOU (worthless and unemployed) or ILLEGAL (like your pal Marko), then no taxes are paid, therefore you're getting something that WE are paying for. It's free for you worthless POS's, but those of us who actually PAY taxes get to pay for it.

And personally, the thought of that makes me ill.

The article says that ALL 43 million uninsured Americans are going to get free coverage.

If the bill says everyone is getting free coverage, then it should be easy enough to point it out.

I'll wait.

PoliCon
07-21-2009, 03:35 PM
Why should I disprove YOUR claim ?

It's YOUR claim, back it up.

Nobody anywhere, ever claimed the public option insurance would be offered for FREE to the American people.

You fucking idiot. Where did someone claim the public option would be free to Americans ?

Listen you vacuous queef. If a group of people are paying NOTHING and getting something - the SOMETHING they are getting is - HOLY FUCKING SHIT - FREE!

satanica
07-21-2009, 05:04 PM
Listen you vacuous queef. If a group of people are paying NOTHING and getting something - the SOMETHING they are getting is - HOLY FUCKING SHIT - FREE!

So, the people who take the option the government is going t offer, won't pay anything for it ?

It will be FREE to whoever wants it.

Thats your view ?

PoliCon
07-21-2009, 05:24 PM
So, the people who take the option the government is going t offer, won't pay anything for it ?

It will be FREE to whoever wants it.

Thats your view ?

It will be free to the fucking illegals you vaginal discharge! WHY OH WHY didn't your mother swallow you?

satanica
07-21-2009, 05:27 PM
It will be free to the fucking illegals you vaginal discharge! WHY OH WHY didn't your mother swallow you?

The article says it will provide FREE medical care to the 43 million uninsured.

So, your view is that this bill will provide FREE health care to ALL the uninsured people in the USA ?

This is a YES or NO question.

lacarnut
07-21-2009, 06:12 PM
The article says it will provide FREE medical care to the 43 million uninsured.

So, your view is that this bill will provide FREE health care to ALL the uninsured people in the USA ?

This is a YES or NO question.

Why don't you beat the bushes looking for a job rather sitting on your lazy ass posting stupid all day. You are a leech on society.

satanica
07-21-2009, 06:32 PM
Cause your mom is paying my bills, it's a money for meat barter.

Shannon
07-21-2009, 06:44 PM
Cause your mom is paying my bills, it's a money for meat barter.

You are a crass little bugger, aren't you?:rolleyes:

jediab
07-22-2009, 11:37 AM
Why don't you beat the bushes looking for a job rather sitting on your lazy ass posting stupid all day. You are a leech on society.

Because he is living the typical liberal lifestyle. Sit at home, do nothing, be nothing, suck off the system paid for by conservatives and independents, and demand more things without having to do anything to earn them. Why would he ever want a job?

satanica
07-22-2009, 12:20 PM
Because he is living the typical liberal lifestyle. Sit at home, do nothing, be nothing, suck off the system paid for by conservatives and independents, and demand more things without having to do anything to earn them. Why would he ever want a job?

Coming from a guy that is such a pussy he won't even tell people what state he lives in.

Don't be ashamed, most here won't tell where they live, ...They live in a very blue state, and they can't move to a red state because they live in moms basement.

I always ask, "why would you live in such a liberal city or state ? "

It's because they live with mom.

BadCat
07-22-2009, 12:23 PM
Coming from a guy that is such a pussy he won't even tell people what state he lives in.

Don't be ashamed, most here won't tell where they live, ...They live in a very blue state, and they can't move to a red state because they live in moms basement.

I always ask, "why would you live in such a liberal city or state ? "

It's because they live with mom.

Your wife supports you. You're one to talk.

satanica
07-22-2009, 12:25 PM
Your wife supports you. You're one to talk.

The State is supporting me. I am getting checks,just like millions of other Americans who lost their job when Bush ruined the economy.

BadCat
07-22-2009, 12:29 PM
The State is supporting me. I am getting checks,just like millions of other Americans who lost their job when Bush ruined the economy.

The state paid for you to go to Key West and get a tattoo?
The state paid for your Lollapalooza tickets?

The state is getting ripped off.

But hey, you can come out here to Arizona and compete with the illegal aliens you want to give free health care to. They lay tile for $1 a square foot.

lacarnut
07-22-2009, 12:36 PM
The State is supporting me. I am getting checks,just like millions of other Americans who lost their job when Bush ruined the economy.

You know that you could lose your unemployment benefits if you are not actively seeking employment. So why don't you get off your lazy ass and beat the bushes for a job? Flipping burgers would be better than sitting at the computer posting stupid shit about politics. You sound like you enjoy being a leech on society.

satanica
07-22-2009, 12:42 PM
The state paid for you to go to Key West and get a tattoo?
The state paid for your Lollapalooza tickets?

The state is getting ripped off.

But hey, you can come out here to Arizona and compete with the illegal aliens you want to give free health care to. They lay tile for $1 a square foot.


I was working at the time, and also have a rather large bank account.

Molon Labe
07-22-2009, 12:43 PM
I was working at the time, and also have a rather large bank account.

Not for long the way Obama's going. :p

BadCat
07-22-2009, 12:43 PM
I was working at the time, and also have a rather large bank account.

Inheritance?

Hey, did you make those chairs in your photobucket account?

samurai
07-22-2009, 12:44 PM
Then why does newsmax say it's gonna be free ?

Nobody anywhere ever said it would be free. But it didn't stop newsmax from posting this lie.

If it's paid for with taxes, and illegals don't pay taxes, it's free to them.

Anyway, it's a moot point... I'm sure Obumbler will be pushing for a complete amnesty for illegals before very long anyway. Soon the government will simply refuse to recognize that we have any illegals, and just declare them "undocumented foreign residents".

satanica
07-22-2009, 12:45 PM
You know that you could lose your unemployment benefits if you are not actively seeking employment. So why don't you get off your lazy ass and beat the bushes for a job? Flipping burgers would be better than sitting at the computer posting stupid shit about politics. You sound like you enjoy being a leech on society.


Flipping burgers won't cut it.

And ...I am in the works of moving in the next 8 months, I have two new scuba diving products going to market in the Florida Keys in May, and I need to live there to make this happen.

To be honest, it's up in the air if I will ever have to be a carpenter again.

satanica
07-22-2009, 12:46 PM
If it's paid for with taxes, and illegals don't pay taxes, it's free to them.

Anyway, it's a moot point... I'm sure Obumbler will be pushing for a complete amnesty for illegals before very long anyway. Soon the government will simply refuse to recognize that we have any illegals, and just declare them "undocumented foreign residents".

Hey, didn't you tell me that Obama was NOT handed a crisis ? ..And then when I asked why Bush would ask for 700 billion if there was no crisis ...you ran away ?

How about now ? ..care to answer the question ?

samurai
07-22-2009, 12:51 PM
Hey, didn't you tell me that Obama was NOT handed a crisis ? ..And then when I asked why Bush would ask for 700 billion if there was no crisis ...you ran away ?

How about now ? ..care to answer the question ?

Wrong thread, this one's about health care.

And I said he was handed a minor downturn, but not a crisis, same as Bush was and some other Presidents had been. If he'd just handled it properly, we wouldn't be in the mess we are now in.

Of course, he and his pals helped cause the mess by screwing over Fannie and Freddie...

satanica
07-22-2009, 12:57 PM
Inheritance?

Hey, did you make those chairs in your photobucket account?

I deal antiques on the side. A few months ago I bought a chair at Goodwill for $14.00 and sold it for $280.00 on Ebay....it's more fun than anything else.

I also bought Obama papers here in Chicago after he was elected and made over $400.00 selling them all over the world through Ebay.

And have become a inventor be default, I now have a 100% organic no see um repellent, and a flood protection device for cars on the market, soon I will have two scuba diving products hit the stores in the Florida Keys.

Getting laid off really helped with getting this done, I needed the time to make this work.

Molon Labe
07-22-2009, 12:58 PM
I deal antiques on the side. A few months ago I bought a chair at Goodwill for $14.00 and sold it for $280.00 on Ebay....it's more fun than anything else.

I also bought Obama papers here in Chicago after he was elected and made over $400.00 selling them all over the world through Ebay.

And have become a inventor be default, I now have a 100% organic no see um repellent, and a flood protection device for cars on the market, soon I will have two scuba diving products hit the stores in the Florida Keys.

Getting laid off really helped with getting this done, I needed the time to make this work.

How can someone with so much individual talent be such a collectivist fool then?

satanica
07-22-2009, 12:59 PM
Wrong thread, this one's about health care.

And I said he was handed a minor downturn, but not a crisis, same as Bush was and some other Presidents had been. If he'd just handled it properly, we wouldn't be in the mess we are now in.

Of course, he and his pals helped cause the mess by screwing over Fannie and Freddie...

Clinton was handed a mild crisis and fixed it with a 13 billion dollar stimulus package.

So...it's your view that Bush was also facing a mild crisis and got 700 billion and STILL couldn't fix it ?

jediab
07-22-2009, 01:03 PM
Coming from a guy that is such a pussy he won't even tell people what state he lives in.

Don't be ashamed, most here won't tell where they live, ...They live in a very blue state, and they can't move to a red state because they live in moms basement.

I always ask, "why would you live in such a liberal city or state ? "

It's because they live with mom.

Funny that after your lame attempts to insult, you failed to deny anthing that I said. Typical liberal. You just proved my point. Now maybe you should get out of you jammies and go look for more free handouts at your mailbox. Then go back to watching Oprah.

Molon Labe
07-22-2009, 01:05 PM
Clinton was handed a mild crisis and fixed it with a 13 billion dollar stimulus package.

So...it's your view that Bush was also facing a mild crisis and got 700 billion and STILL couldn't fix it ?

Satanic...buddy...

Clinton never "fixed" anything. He benefited from the internet technology boom. Remember? the one Al Gore invented? All he did was ride a growing economy into another bubble which lasted about 10 years. Bubbles burst. It's an economic fact. This one did too...Clinton just wasn't in office when it happened. But his policies and congress's did help cause it.

satanica
07-22-2009, 01:06 PM
How can someone with so much individual talent be such a collectivist fool then?


I will tell you.

Right now, in the USA we have two extreme political groups.

Group A believes with all their heart that they are in possession of the truth, and that their cause is the right path.

Group B believes the exact opposite of group A ...and just like group A ...they believe they are in possession of the truth.

These two groups are now facing each other down like never before. Each group thinking the other is wrong.

Your political views force you to disagree with me. I am really a very smart person who has basically just retired at 39 years old.

If it makes you feel any better, I tried to write a screen play about the book of revelation and failed, nobody in the industry would even look at it.

The idea in my head was much cooler than what I ended up with.

BadCat
07-22-2009, 01:12 PM
I will tell you.

Right now, in the USA we have two extreme political groups.

Group A believes with all their heart that they are in possession of the truth, and that their cause is the right path.

Group B believes the exact opposite of group A ...and just like group A ...they believe they are in possession of the truth.

These two groups are now facing each other down like never before. Each group thinking the other is wrong.

Your political views force you to disagree with me. I am really a very smart person who has basically just retired at 39 years old.

If it makes you feel any better, I tried to write a screen play about the book of revelation and failed, nobody in the industry would even look at it.

The idea in my head was much cooler than what I ended up with.


You know, starting a business is not exactly conducive to the current liberal viewpoints.
You're supposed to join the Peace Corps.

satanica
07-22-2009, 01:14 PM
You know, starting a business is not exactly conducive to the current liberal viewpoints.
You're supposed to join the Peace Corps.

I have been a small business owner for decades now, I had a snow plowing business that got ditched for other things.

No matter how the economy is doing, the snow always fell, and it always had to be pushed.

Molon Labe
07-22-2009, 01:16 PM
I will tell you.

Right now, in the USA we have two extreme political groups.

Group A believes with all their heart that they are in possession of the truth, and that their cause is the right path.

Group B believes the exact opposite of group A ...and just like group A ...they believe they are in possession of the truth.

These two groups are now facing each other down like never before. Each group thinking the other is wrong.

Your political views force you to disagree with me. I am really a very smart person who has basically just retired at 39 years old.

If it makes you feel any better, I tried to write a screen play about the book of revelation and failed, nobody in the industry would even look at it.

The idea in my head was much cooler than what I ended up with.

So you attack the very free market system you wish to find participation in. Sounds reasonable.

Which groups? If your'e talking Democrats/Republican's. I can't disagree with you more. How about neither group has the "truth".

You lump too many into two simplistic identity "groups". Maybe that's the way the media has brainwashed you to believe it really is, but it just isn't so.

satanica
07-22-2009, 01:20 PM
So you attack the very free market system you wish to find participation in. Sounds reasonable.

How so ?

I WANT the government to regulate whats in bug repellent so I am not spraying posion on my face.

I WANT the government to regulate the toys that are shipped into the USA so we don't find our children chewing on a toy painted with lead

I WANT the government to regulate the foods brought into the states so we don't eat ecoli or melamine by accident.

Molon Labe
07-22-2009, 01:33 PM
How so ?

I WANT the government to regulate whats in bug repellent so I am not spraying posion on my face.

I WANT the government to regulate the toys that are shipped into the USA so we don't find our children chewing on a toy painted with lead

I WANT the government to regulate the foods brought into the states so we don't eat ecoli or melamine by accident.

You need to break out of your government educated thinking pattern that tells you that theft, and murder are okie dokie if done under the guiese of a public entity. And that making us safer can only be handled by the public realm. Why do you believe such things? Because somehow we are magically transformed into stewards of humanity because we work for a state agency?

Ever read the book Private Rights and Public Illusions (http://www.independent.org/store/book_detail.asp?bookID=46http://)?
There are few things worse than the incredibly naive belief that bureaucrats actually have a vested interest in taking care of us.

I guess when the government poisons you with toxins in food and drugs that are FDA approved then that's Ok by you right?

There are few things done by the public sector that cannot be done with more care and effectiveness by the private realm.

satanica
07-22-2009, 01:38 PM
. How about neither group has the "truth".

Well, you see ...now we have a problem.

Take for example this threads OP ...

It states... "The Democratic plan will embrace Obama’s vision of bringing free government medical care to more than 45 million uninsured people in America"

Now there is a truth, and a lie on the issue.

The truth ...the plan will not be offered to 45 million people for FREE

The lie ....The plan will offer FREE medical care to 45 million people.

You know as well as I do that 45 million people will not be offered FREE MEDICAL CARE.

I sided with the truth, and the repubs sided with the lie. This is a black and white issue.

Just one example.

Molon Labe
07-22-2009, 01:56 PM
Well, you see ...now we have a problem.

Take for example this threads OP ...

It states... "The Democratic plan will embrace Obama’s vision of bringing free government medical care to more than 45 million uninsured people in America"

Now there is a truth, and a lie on the issue.

The truth ...the plan will not be offered to 45 million people for FREE

The lie ....The plan will offer FREE medical care to 45 million people.

You know as well as I do that 45 million people will not be offered FREE MEDICAL CARE.

I sided with the truth, and the repubs sided with the lie. This is a black and white issue.

Just one example.

What if the truth is that none of this is needed to fix medical care. What if no one's actually looking at what the root causes are.? What if no one really cares, because people like you are too busy arguing over a partisan bill that seeks to increase control over a system rather than actually fix any glaring defect?

Dig a little deeper.
How about not giving anyone health insurance and doing away with insurance all together except in catastrophic instances. How about finding ways of lowering the prices....which government isn't telling you about but small time doctors who refuse insurance are proving lower costs? How about letting Doctors and patients actually have a "relationship" rather than a third party dicatating treatment?

What if the "truth" is that costs were out of control because of regulation? Want proof?

Balanced Budget Act of 1997

- Prohibits a Dr from filing a medicare reimbursement claim for two years if he/she enters a private contract with and individual for medical care
- cost prohibitive for rural hospitals causing rural area hospitals to close and residents to seek health care nearer urban areas.

How about HMO's & Insurance companies being the biggest threats to health care. Both are caused by government regulation. No market system would have ever invented HMO's.

How about how they ration health care by forbiding Dr's from discussing "too expensive" treatment options with patients? None of this is solved, but you don't care to anwer those questions....just to blindly support what the idiots in Washington say is the "right" way.;)

satanica
07-22-2009, 01:59 PM
How about not giving anyone health insurance and doing away with insurance all together except in catastrophic instances.

LOL. Ya, nobody gets medical coverage ... unless they crash their car and get fucked up.

Is that the new republican platform ?

Medical care in only the most extreme cases, the GOP plan.

Molon Labe
07-22-2009, 02:01 PM
LOL. Ya, nobody gets medical coverage ... unless they crash their car and get fucked up.

Is that the new republican platform ?

Medical care in only the most extreme cases, the GOP plan.

Try to focus...

No insurance does not equate no medical coverage.

Affordibility is the key. Not universal insurance.

satanica
07-22-2009, 02:03 PM
Try to focus...

No insurance does not equate no medical coverage.

Affordibility is the key. Not universal insurance.


Under that plan, who would give me coverage ?

Molon Labe
07-22-2009, 02:14 PM
Under that plan, who would give me coverage ?

Try to break free of these thinking patterns...

You ...would.... not ....be .....covered .....under..... insurance.


Can you imagine the charity and resources available to people who can't afford medical car like this, without the foot of regulation on their neck?

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/story?id=6593866&page=1


What do a bank executive, a retired nurse, a jeweler, a computer specialist, an artist, a teenager and an idealistic family doctor -- all from the tiny town of Eureka Springs, Ark. -- have in common?

A free clinic in Arkansas runs with a volunteer staff and donated supplies.
They are part of a unique approach to the health care crisis in America: all have volunteered to help their uninsured neighbors receive first-rate health care -- for free. And nearly 200 other local volunteers have joined them.

"I thought it would be more of an effort to get everybody on board," explains Dr. Dan Bell. He's the idealistic family doctor who, with his bright and energetic wife Suzie, envisioned creating a free health care clinic four years ago.

"I thought we'd be doing something in the back room of our church and seeing a dozen people," Dan said of his early vision.

Instead, the Eureka Christian Health Outreach clinic, known as ECHO, sees hundreds of patients a year. Its entire staff, which now includes doctors, nurses, pharmacists, dentists and a wide range of clerks, assistants, social workers and specialists, are all volunteers. No


People will rise to be charitble...it's proven all the time. No one ever thinks that the free market has the best method for bringing the best to the most people. No one ever thinks to work within that framework to solve social problems.

You must be willing to consider it though. That means breaking free.

satanica
07-22-2009, 02:17 PM
People will rise to be charitble...it's proven all the time.

Your plan is that Americans pitch into a giant fund that covers everybody when they need it ?

Thats called single payer, welcome aboard the single payer wagon.

Molon Labe
07-22-2009, 02:19 PM
Your plan is that Americans pitch into a giant fund that covers everybody when they need it ?

Thats called single payer, welcome aboard the single payer wagon.

B.S.
There is no free market solution in any government option Democrat or Republcian.

satanica
07-22-2009, 02:21 PM
B.S.
There is no free market solution in any government option Democrat or Republcian.

So, your plan is that Americans pitch into a fund that covers everybody when they need it ?

Molon Labe
07-22-2009, 02:28 PM
So, your plan is that Americans pitch into a fund that covers everybody when they need it ?

Uh uh! Where'd you get that? I know it takes time to break the State brainwashing thought processes.

No fund. American's like me get all my tax money back, period. Then I can invest in the private charity or business I wish, which in turn will take care of infinitely more problems than the state can.

Not through taxes. Not through the guise of the state. That would be ignorant and strike at the very heart of freedom.

satanica
07-22-2009, 02:32 PM
No fund. American's like me get all my tax money back, period.

This sentence says that under your plan , Americans wouldn't pay taxes "period"



Then I can invest in the private charity or business I wish, which in turn will take care of infinitely more problems than the state can.


And this sentence says the tax money that would be returned to the people would then be given to a charity that would help everybody.

Thats called socialism honey bunny. You would be pitching into a larger fund that everybody would get to use.

Molon Labe
07-22-2009, 02:44 PM
This sentence says that under your plan , Americans wouldn't pay taxes "period"

Yep... You're catching on. No taxes period. What great things private individuals could do.


And this sentence says the tax money that would be returned to the people would then be given to a charity that would help everybody.

Thats called socialism honey bunny. You would be pitching into a larger fund that everybody would get to use.

That's like saying that an18th century orphanage reflected that society was socialist because some gave to them as charity.:rolleyes:
Since when is "voluntary" charity socialist?

You didn't watch the video did you? You rail against the Christian religion, yet it's those very Christians in the video that hand socialist their ass as to how to run social institutions.

No, you see, my world is a totally free market system where I'm "free" to "give" my private "industry" and "property" to whomever I see fit. I know those concepts in quotes are foreign to statists like you who believe government theft, control, and murder is OK. But I just can't relate as I'm simply not a hater of freedom and civil rights.

You see....socialism and freedom are concepts diametrically opposed . What I'm suggesting is that social problems can never be solved, but can be lessened significantly by a free market system.

satanica
07-22-2009, 02:48 PM
Your plan.

1. Cancell all taxes.

2. Then hope the people just pay for everyones coverage when they need it.



I thought you hacks were against hope ?

PoliCon
07-22-2009, 02:51 PM
Your plan.

1. Cancell all taxes.

2. Then hope the people just pay for everyones coverage when they need it.



I thought you hacks were against hope ?

You have the debating technique of an 9 year old.

satanica
07-22-2009, 02:58 PM
You have the debating technique of an 9 year old.

Hey, I want to thanks your state for voting for Obama, it really helped out.

PoliCon
07-22-2009, 03:01 PM
Hey, I want to thanks your state for voting for Obama, it really helped out.

Is that supposed to upset me? I know full well that my state is dominated by welfare queens at the eastern end of the state - and by retarded union voters at the western end of the state. But Don't worry. Things are changing. There are more and more red state voters. :)

Molon Labe
07-22-2009, 03:02 PM
Your plan.

1. Cancell all taxes.

2. Then hope the people just pay for everyones coverage when they need it.

I thought you hacks were against hope ?

How many people has government killed under the benevolent state system? How many will be killed under government health care.
If private citizens fail that's a crime, but if the state fails and people die that's ok to you, right?

I don't have to hope.... I know it. It's common sense in economics. Contrast 1 and 4 below.



Four ways that money is spent,:

1. The first and most common way in the private sector is people spending their own money on themselves. In this case, the buyer is interested in both quality (the best product or service that he can afford) and value (getting it at the best price) because he is both the producer of the wealth being spent and the consumer of the good or service being procured.
2. The second way is when people spend their own money on others (such as gifts). Here they are still concerned about value (it's their money), but less concerned about service quality as they are not the consumer.
3. The third way is spending other people's money on yourself. Think of the rich man's girlfriend who buys herself the nicest dresses in the store on his credit card without even looking at the tag. She wants quality, but value is irrelevant since she sacrifices nothing.
4. The fourth way is when people spend other people's money on other people. In this case, the buyer has no rational interest in either value or quality. Government always and necessarily spends money in this fourth way. This guarantees inefficient public spending because the spenders have no vested interest in efficiently allocating those funds.


Your plan "hopes" the same thing but under the lie of the "benevolent" state.


If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind?"

"[The socialists declare] that the state owes subsistence, well-being, and education to all its citizens; it should be generous, charitable, involved in everything, devoted to everybody; ...that it should intervene directly to relieve all suffering, satisfy and anticipate all wants, furnish capital to all enterprises, enlightenment to all minds, balm for all wounds, asylums for all the unfortunate, and even aid to the point of shedding French blood, for all oppressed people on the face of the earth.

Who would not like to see all these benefits flow forth upon the world from the law, as from an inexhaustible source? ...But is it possible? ...Whence does [the state] draw those resources that it is urged to dispense by way of benefits to individuals? Is it not from the individuals themselves? How, then, can these resources be increased by passing through the hands of a parasitical and voracious intermediary? - Frédéric Bastiat


One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation - Thomas Brackett Reed


Answer this:

Why is it that medical treatment is so expensive that it is out of the reach of 5% of the population?

satanica
07-22-2009, 03:42 PM
**yawn**

Blah blah blah. shut your yap already honey.

Molon Labe
07-22-2009, 03:44 PM
**yawn**

Blah blah blah. shut your yap already honey.

Ya I know....Your not listening anyway. How intellectually lazy. You don't know squat about economics.

Tell me how smart you are again?

PoliCon
07-22-2009, 03:45 PM
**yawn**

Blah blah blah. shut your yap already honey.

Satanica has -

http://gheylove.com/images/1187783973teh_ghey.jpg

Molon Labe
07-22-2009, 03:48 PM
Why is it medical treatment is so expensive that it is out of the reach of 5% of the population?

satanica
07-22-2009, 03:50 PM
Ya I know....Your not listening anyway. Tell me how smart you are again?

You lost me at "cancell all taxes"

How do our roads and bridges get built ?

The people will just 'chip in' ? ...when and where they want ?

Right now most of the subsidized states are red, they suck in more than they give out. If the rich states chose to keep their money in their own states the red states would collapse into massive poverty.

The red states NEED the money from the blue states to survive. YOUR plan would doom them.

Is that smart enough for you ? Why don't you tell me what would happen to all the green on the map when the money gets shut off ?

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/1457/donor.png

satanica
07-22-2009, 03:51 PM
Why is it medical treatment is so expensive that it is out of the reach of 5% of the population?


45 million uninsured.

I think 45 million is about 15% of the population. Not 5%

PoliCon
07-22-2009, 04:02 PM
45 million uninsured.

I think 45 million is about 15% of the population. Not 5%

and what percentage of those 45 million are uninsured because they want to be? and what percentage of that 45 million are already covered by medicaid but are too dumb or lazy to apply? And what percentage of that 45 million are illegal aliens?

satanica
07-22-2009, 04:04 PM
and what percentage of those 45 million are uninsured because they want to be? and what percentage of that 45 million are already covered by medicaid but are too dumb or lazy to apply? And what percentage of that 45 million are illegal aliens?

I don't know ?

Do you ?

PoliCon
07-22-2009, 04:06 PM
I don't know ?

Do you ?

Yup.

http://townhall.com/columnists/StarParker/2009/06/22/the_uninsured_a_bogus_excuse_for_trillions_in_new_ welfare_spending

Molon Labe
07-22-2009, 04:06 PM
45 million uninsured.

I think 45 million is about 15% of the population. Not 5%

So 45 million uninsured raises costs? How?

You mean government giving preferential treatment and dictating policy and procedures to certain insurance companies etc. has nothing to do with costs or type of care?

What about this? http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/68011.php

Think that Doctors having it more difficult today with overhead and regulation might be a cause for burnout?
Think those things might add to cost or are they just insiginificant?

What about this? https://www.policyarchive.org/handle/10207/5299

You think that regulation might drive some doctors batty enough to say no more? It sure looks that way.

Why is it that the stats show that almost half the doctors won't accept medicare patients but around 99% say they will accept private insurance? It has nothing to do with regulation right?

How about this: http://www.census.gov/prod/2007pubs/p60-233.pdf

How come some states consider families making 55,000 a year to be eligible for medicaid?


Just admit it...you have no clue about the medical field.

satanica
07-22-2009, 04:08 PM
Yup.

http://townhall.com/columnists/StarParker/2009/06/22/the_uninsured_a_bogus_excuse_for_trillions_in_new_ welfare_spending

Oh please. Do you have a link that doesn't attack me with Glen Beck pop ups ?

Jeeesh.

PoliCon
07-22-2009, 04:09 PM
Oh please. Do you have a link that doesn't attack me with Glen Beck pop ups ?

Jeeesh.

http://townhall.com/Common/PrintPage.aspx?g=5d732785-1d25-4f82-aeb1-58fa953049ed&t=c

Molon Labe
07-22-2009, 04:23 PM
You lost me at "cancell all taxes"

How do our roads and bridges get built ?

Linky for People that can't think outside the statist box (http://mises.org/books/roads_web.pdf)

I'm a rebel at heart but I might be willing to compromise on this one and suggest that the way it was done prior to 1913 would be a considerable improvement. Let's say it's safe to assume I believe the 16th amendment should be repealed.

satanica
07-22-2009, 04:30 PM
Linky for People that can't think outside the statist box (http://mises.org/books/roads_web.pdf)

I'm a rebel at heart but I might be willing to compromise on this one and suggest that the way it was done prior to 1913 would be a considerable improvement. Let's say it's safe to assume I believe the 16th amendment should be repealed.


Does that make you a Bob Barr supporter ?

Molon Labe
07-22-2009, 04:38 PM
Does that make you a Bob Barr supporter ?

Hmm...He says some of the right things. He certainly has it right on the Neocons and their foreign policy, but I do not support him per say. What most government stooges say and do are two different things. It's something Bush, McCain, and Obama supporters would do well to scrutinize more closely. But I don't expect the herd mentality to change.

satanica
07-22-2009, 04:39 PM
Hmm...He says some of the right things. He certainly has it right on the Neocons and their foreign policy, but I do not support him per say. What most government stooges say and do are two different things. It's something Bush, McCain, and Obama supporters would do well to scrutinize more closely. But I don't expect the herd mentality to change.

Just saying, your views, and that link you posted pretty much makes you a libertarian.

FeebMaster
07-22-2009, 04:44 PM
Just saying, your views, and that link you posted pretty much makes you a libertarian.

Why would a libertarian vote for Barr?

satanica
07-22-2009, 04:46 PM
Why would a libertarian vote for Barr?

Cause he was the libertarian nominee in 2008.

Jeeesh, is this a political forum or a day care ?

Molon Labe
07-22-2009, 04:47 PM
Just saying, your views, and that link you posted pretty much makes you a libertarian.


If that's what you think then you lack the understanding and history of where libertarian beliefs originate and conservatism in general. I consider myself conservative. Classical liberal is more like it. In the guise of Robert Taft and Russell Kirk.
Historically Conservatives had strong libertarian leanings. It's only been recently in your's and my lifetime that it's changed to the statist idiots they are today. Republican is a party and conservative is a belief, sio I'm really not bound by loyalty to a group that really doesn't reflect that much anymore.
You'd do well to have some critical scrutiny over the Democrats as well.

FeebMaster
07-22-2009, 04:49 PM
Cause he was the libertarian nominee in 2008.

Jeeesh, is this a political forum or a day care ?


Someone being the nominee for a political party is no reason to vote for them.

Molon Labe
07-22-2009, 04:49 PM
Cause he was the libertarian nominee in 2008.

Jeeesh, is this a political forum or a day care ?

Yeah but the point he's making is he was far from one. Just because someone talks the libertarian talk for 6 months but has been something different the last 20 years. Kinda like 'cough, cough' Obama..cough' someone else we all know.

satanica
07-22-2009, 04:55 PM
If that's what you think then you lack the understanding and history of where libertarian beliefs originate and conservatism in general. I consider myself conservative. Classical liberal is more like it. In the guise of Robert Taft and Russell Kirk.
Historically Conservatives had strong libertarian leanings. It's only been recently in your's and my lifetime that it's changed to the statist idiots they are today. Republican is a party and conservative is a belief, sio I'm really not bound by loyalty to a group that really doesn't reflect that much anymore.
You'd do well to have some critical scrutiny over the Democrats as well.


The link you posted is written by Walter Block, a uber libertarian ..who followed Murray Rothbard , his nick name was "Mr. Libertarian" ....Block to over the name when he died.

Lets be honest now.

satanica
07-22-2009, 04:56 PM
Someone being the nominee for a political party is no reason to vote for them.

But...it IS a reason to vote for them.

Admit it, you had no idea Barr was the nominee, I can see it from here.

PoliCon
07-22-2009, 04:57 PM
But...it IS a reason to vote for them.

Admit it, you had no idea Barr was the nominee, I can see it from here.

Are you a mindreader now? Tell me - what am I thinking right now?:rolleyes:

Molon Labe
07-22-2009, 04:58 PM
The link you posted is written by Walter Block, a uber libertarian ..who followed Murray Rothbard , his nick name was "Mr. Libertarian" ....Block to over the name when he died.

Lets be honest now.

What can I say....I like Free markets and Block and Rothbard have some great ideas. I'm not a complete disciple. I'm not an Anarchist........yet :o

BadCat
07-22-2009, 04:59 PM
But...it IS a reason to vote for them.

Admit it, you had no idea Barr was the nominee, I can see it from here.

I knew he was their candidate.
Their problem is that they do funny things...like in AZ a few years ago, they ran a big boobed topless hairdresser for governor.

I voted for her.

FeebMaster
07-22-2009, 05:04 PM
But...it IS a reason to vote for them.

Admit it, you had no idea Barr was the nominee, I can see it from here.


You're right. It is a reason. It's just not a good reason.

FeebMaster
07-22-2009, 05:09 PM
What can I say....I like Free markets and Block and Rothbard have some great ideas. I'm not a complete disciple. I'm not an Anarchist........yet :o

Search your feelings...

http://i11.tinypic.com/2zfpbmd.jpg

satanica
07-22-2009, 05:15 PM
You're right. It is a reason. It's just not a good reason.

Hey, I want to thank your state for being so dependable for the Democratic party.

Obama 61% in 2008...way to go.

FeebMaster
07-22-2009, 05:17 PM
Hey, I want to thank your state for being so dependable for the Democratic party.

Obama 61% in 2008...way to go.


I'm afraid I can't take any credit for that. I don't vote.

satanica
07-22-2009, 05:19 PM
I'm afraid I can't take any credit for that. I don't vote.

Oh, felon.

sorry to hear that.

FeebMaster
07-22-2009, 05:58 PM
Oh, felon.

sorry to hear that.


I didn't say I can't vote, I said I don't vote.

Molon Labe
07-22-2009, 08:28 PM
Oh, felon.

sorry to hear that.

Satanica? Ever read "abstain from beans". Google it and I think you'll get a clue about how some view the system. Some of us aren't that jaded, but we also aren't slobbering idiots praising false gods like Obama Messiah.


Search your feelings...

There is one point to make about that that I doubt Satan boy can comprehend. It's that it's may actually be more acurate to look at political differences through a Collectivist to Individualist spectrum rather than a right or a left.

There's just people who believe in more statism and those of us who believe in less to none. There haven't been too many successful state systems that didn't start doing nasty things. Right or Left.

SarasotaRepub
07-22-2009, 08:52 PM
The Prez sounds real annoyed that everyone isn't bowing down and
kissing his feet tonight.

Let's see, he's also told us, twice, that he has
the best health care in the US and that he's the President. :rolleyes:

FeebMaster
07-22-2009, 10:09 PM
There is one point to make about that that I doubt Satan boy can comprehend. It's that it's may actually be more acurate to look at political differences through a Collectivist to Individualist spectrum rather than a right or a left.

There's just people who believe in more statism and those of us who believe in less to none. There haven't been too many successful state systems that didn't start doing nasty things. Right or Left.

Absolutely. It's just easier to see with some issues than others. National service is a good one. Of the mandatory variety, I mean. Get a hardcore, state loving righty and left talking about it and they're damn near indistinguishable.

lacarnut
07-22-2009, 11:45 PM
The Prez sounds real annoyed that everyone isn't bowing down and
kissing his feet tonight.

Let's see, he's also told us, twice, that he has
the best health care in the US and that he's the President. :rolleyes:

I am glad I missed it. If the O has the best system in the US, why does he want us to have a crummy system?

PoliCon
07-23-2009, 12:01 AM
latest poll results from facebook polling -

Are you in favor of a Government run healthcare system?


Yes

43,398 (20.1%)

No

165,836 (76.6%)


Maybe

7,135 (3.3%)

http://apps.facebook.com/realpolls/feed_vote/m2ew25myl if you wanna vote . . ..

Rockntractor
07-23-2009, 12:04 AM
latest poll results from facebook polling -

Are you in favor of a Government run healthcare system?


Yes

43,398 (20.1%)

No

165,836 (76.6%)


Maybe

7,135 (3.3%)

http://apps.facebook.com/realpolls/feed_vote/m2ew25myl if you wanna vote . . ..
Kiki won't like this!

lacarnut
07-23-2009, 01:33 AM
Kiki won't like this!

Nope and this poll sure beats that small polling data that Gallup uses of only 1,000 highly selective participants.

Satty loses. We win again.

Constitutionally Speaking
07-23-2009, 06:30 AM
45 million uninsured.

I think 45 million is about 15% of the population. Not 5%


Then again there are NOT 45 million uninsured Americans today. Quit lying.

45% of them have found insurance.

10 million of them are not even citizens.

9 million make enough to pay for insurance themselves but choose not to.

14 million already qualify for government insurance but don't bother to apply.

There is overlap in some of this but you are flat out lying when you say there are 45 million uninsured Americans.

Troll
07-23-2009, 07:27 AM
45 million uninsured.

I think 45 million is about 15% of the population.

So what?

satanica
07-23-2009, 08:53 AM
Then again there are NOT 45 million uninsured Americans today. Quit lying.

45% of them have found insurance.

10 million of them are not even citizens.

9 million make enough to pay for insurance themselves but choose not to.

14 million already qualify for government insurance but don't bother to apply.

There is overlap in some of this but you are flat out lying when you say there are 45 million uninsured Americans.

So...

20 million(45%) have found insurance ...that leaves 25 million

Show me a politician that agrees that there are ONLY 25 million uninsured in the USA

If you speak the truth it should be very easy.

PoliCon
07-23-2009, 11:32 AM
OH SATANICA . . . . yoooo hoooooo . . . . read it a weep!

http://www.conservativeunderground.com/forum505/showthread.php?p=160504#post160504

Molon Labe
07-23-2009, 11:41 AM
So...

20 million(45%) have found insurance ...that leaves 25 million

Show me a politician that agrees that there are ONLY 25 million uninsured in the USA

If you speak the truth it should be very easy.


Why are you so adament about insurance. If your goal is to help people, then insurance, HMO's etc. are the problem. Your so focused on the uninsured that you're paralyzed.

It's costs. Why are cost's so high? If you can anwer that you can be part of the solution. Obama has no clue. He is the problem.

Look I know it's difficult to see thing outside your fascist little box, but try.

satanica
07-23-2009, 11:47 AM
If your goal is to help people, then insurance, HMO's etc. are the problem. .

Not according to Anne Coulter, who is supported here and has advertised here because of it. Reda the first sentence. Do you really think the people on CU will agree with me over ann coulter ?

Nope, they will agee with coulter.

I am glad we agree, and that we both disagree with Coulter

http://www.conservativeunderground.com/forum505/showthread.php?t=16567