PDA

View Full Version : How can Catholics for Obama rationalize their support for the pro-choice candidate?..



megimoo
07-13-2008, 01:16 PM
The Catholic Obama Vote and the Counterbalance to Abortion

A Catholic conscience is a complex thing that must rely on more than bumper stickers and impassioned rhetoric.

How can Catholics for Obama rationalize their support for the pro-choice candidate?... The moral calculus does look easy until one considers that war, torture, the death penalty, poverty, racism, and even the excesses of capitalism those evils so well defined in Catholic social teaching, and of concern to Catholics of all political persuasions are fully present in the act of abortion.

Consider: War is a struggle between two evolving powers over who will have dominance; whether just or unjust, it involves the murder of the innocent and the disruption of families. War introduces pain, fire, violence, savagery and... snip

Abortion providers are capitalist enterprises that often indulge in among other things unlicensed and unscrupulous practices and the exploitation of women in difficult circumstances, in pursuit of maximum profit.

A Catholic conscience is a complex thing that must rely on more than bumper stickers and impassioned rhetoric.

Catholicism does not reject reason for faith but demands integration of the two, and prayerful discernment, before taking any action. It serves both prayer and reason to consider that abortion is not separate from the evils of war, torture, poverty and the rest, but of a piece with them.

In fact, abortion supersedes those issues by dint of its personal nature.

Government policy affects war, poverty, and the rest, while abortion is like the casting of a vote a personal choice.

But it is a personal choice for the physical and intellectual internalization of war, and of torture, and of the death penalty, and of poverty, and of racism, and of capitalistic exploitation.

Thus weighed, the only counterbalance is life.

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-catholic-vote-and-the-counterbalance-to-abortion/2/


http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-catholic-vote-and-the-counterbalance-to-abortion/

Eyelids
07-13-2008, 01:26 PM
I think Abortion and Gay Marriage have finally died as national issues. Thank god.

Elspeth
07-13-2008, 02:13 PM
The Catholic Obama Vote and the Counterbalance to Abortion

A Catholic conscience is a complex thing that must rely on more than bumper stickers and impassioned rhetoric.

How can Catholics for Obama rationalize their support for the pro-choice candidate?... The moral calculus does look easy until one considers that war, torture, the death penalty, poverty, racism, and even the excesses of capitalism — those evils so well defined in Catholic social teaching, and of concern to Catholics of all political persuasions — are fully present in the act of abortion.

Consider: War is a struggle between two evolving powers over who will have dominance; whether just or unjust, it involves the murder of the innocent and the disruption of families. War introduces pain, fire, violence, savagery and... snip

Abortion providers are capitalist enterprises that often indulge in — among other things — unlicensed and unscrupulous practices and the exploitation of women in difficult circumstances, in pursuit of maximum profit.

A Catholic conscience is a complex thing that must rely on more than bumper stickers and impassioned rhetoric.

Catholicism does not reject reason for faith but demands integration of the two, and prayerful discernment, before taking any action. It serves both prayer and reason to consider that abortion is not separate from the evils of war, torture, poverty and the rest, but of a piece with them.

In fact, abortion supersedes those issues by dint of its personal nature.

Government policy affects war, poverty, and the rest, while abortion is — like the casting of a vote — a personal choice.

But it is a personal choice for the physical and intellectual internalization of war, and of torture, and of the death penalty, and of poverty, and of racism, and of capitalistic exploitation.

Thus weighed, the only counterbalance is life.

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-catholic-vote-and-the-counterbalance-to-abortion/2/


http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-catholic-vote-and-the-counterbalance-to-abortion/


Megimoo,

I grew up a pro-choice Catholic. And there were a lot of us. In the same way that there are a lot of Catholics who use birth control despite the 1964 Papal message on the subject. American Catholics are less likely to unswervingly follow their leaders than other religious sects. I am not sure why this is the case.

Goldwater
07-13-2008, 03:03 PM
I think Abortion and Gay Marriage have finally died as national issues. Thank god.

They'll never die as national issues so long as they are considered federal territory.

asdf2231
07-13-2008, 03:18 PM
I think Abortion and Gay Marriage have finally died as national issues. Thank god.


http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l307/asdf2231/smileys%20and%20fun/Gay-FagHat.jpg

Phillygirl
07-13-2008, 03:24 PM
Megimoo,

I grew up a pro-choice Catholic. And there were a lot of us. In the same way that there are a lot of Catholics who use birth control despite the 1964 Papal message on the subject. American Catholics are less likely to unswervingly follow their leaders than other religious sects. I am not sure why this is the case.

Oddly enough I do not equate the failure of the flock to follow the dictates of the Pope on birth control with failing to follow in regards to abortion. I probably should. But I don't.

I don't believe, however, that the number of pro-choice Catholics equals the number of pro-birth control using Catholics. I have no statistics to back me up on that...just anecdotal evidence.

megimoo
07-13-2008, 03:39 PM
Oddly enough I do not equate the failure of the flock to follow the dictates of the Pope on birth control with failing to follow in regards to abortion. I probably should. But I don't.

I don't believe, however, that the number of pro-choice Catholics equals the number of pro-birth control using Catholics. I have no statistics to back me up on that...just anecdotal evidence.

I agree pro-choice Catholics are a rarity where as birth control Catholics are prevalent !
Active Advocation of abortion by a Catholic is grounds for excommunion !

linda22003
07-14-2008, 10:06 AM
Active Advocation of abortion by a Catholic is grounds for excommunion !

That's not even what it's called. :rolleyes:

Cold Warrior
07-14-2008, 10:20 AM
I agree pro-choice Catholics are a rarity where as birth control Catholics are prevalent !
Active Advocation of abortion by a Catholic is grounds for excommunion !

While it's probably true that there are more "pro-birth control" Catholics than pro-choice ones, they're not exactly a rarity in the US at least:


CBS News Poll (http://www.pollingreport.com/abortion.htm). May 20-23, 2004. N=923 registered voters nationwide. MoE 3 (total sample).

"Which of these comes closest to your view? Abortion should be generally available to those who want it. Abortion should be available, but under stricter limits than it is now. OR, Abortion should not be permitted."

Generally Available - Stricter Limits - Not Permitted - Unsure

36 37 25 2 ALL

34 37 28 1 CATHOLICS

Gingersnap
07-14-2008, 10:28 AM
Roman Catholics in the United States are often fairly unfamiliar with their own church doctrines. They just haven't been well taught by their parents or by their religious leadership. There are a lot of Catholics who are essentially "cultural catholics" (and Catholics aren't alone in this one). They enjoy being part of a larger community and having a certain cultural identity but they don't look too closely at the actual requirements of the faith. It's less about Rome than about fundamental truths that the Church has come to in a number of ways over time.

For these people, it's easier to retain the cultural identification and still do their own thing than to examine the requirements and determine if they are willing to abide by them - even in disagreement - or to leave.

As each generation becomes less and less familiar with the faith, more leave. The RC has retained it's membership levels only through the influx of legal and illegal immigrants in the last 30 years.

megimoo
07-14-2008, 11:55 AM
Roman Catholics in the United States are often fairly unfamiliar with their own church doctrines. They just haven't been well taught by their parents or by their religious leadership. There are a lot of Catholics who are essentially "cultural catholics" (and Catholics aren't alone in this one). They enjoy being part of a larger community and having a certain cultural identity but they don't look too closely at the actual requirements of the faith. It's less about Rome than about fundamental truths that the Church has come to in a number of ways over time.

For these people, it's easier to retain the cultural identification and still do their own thing than to examine the requirements and determine if they are willing to abide by them - even in disagreement - or to leave.

As each generation becomes less and less familiar with the faith, more leave. The RC has retained it's membership levels only through the influx of legal and illegal immigrants in the last 30 years.

Quite true,Most Catholics have little interest in further Education in their faith .

The weekly Mass and Communion with the occasional confession is about as about far as it goes for most .

Most of their adult 'Theology' comes from the Priest/Deacon Lector and an occasional 'Catholic Missionary' But there has been an upsurge in Catholic/Christian activity of late with groups like Cursillo,Opus Dei and Regnum Christi .

http://www.rickross.com/reference/opus/opus58.html

Opus Dei has a special classification in the Catholic church. It is a "personal prelature" - the only one in existence - which means it does not report to individual diocesan bishops, but to its own leader in Rome, who in turn reports directly to the pope.

Other lay groups within the church are tied to religious orders. Regnum Christi, for instance, another conservative Catholic lay organization, is united with the Legionaries of Christ, a religious order of ordained priests.


Opus Dei had a lot of bad press from Browns book "The Da Vinci Code," a novel featuring Opus Dei members as its murdering, scheming bad guys.but Brown is a well know Christian/Catholic hater who bends the truth to suit his literay needs !

Opus Dei, a conservative, largely lay movement within the Catholic church, has been shrouded in mystery and myth since its founding in Spain in 1928. Perhaps the brightest light has been shined on the movement in the two years since the publication and mammoth success of "The Da Vinci Code," a novel featuring Opus Dei members as its murdering, scheming bad guys. That light promises to get even brighter for Opus Dei next year when the movie, based on Dan Brown's novel and starring Tom Hanks, is released.

Opus Dei leaders were so disturbed by the group's negative portrayal in the book that they have devoted an entire section of the group's Web site to debunking some of Brown's claims.

Next year also happens to be the 50th anniversary of Opus Dei's presence in St. Louis. Its 100 or so members here will celebrate with conferences and parties, according to the Rev. Michael Geisler, spiritual director of the Wespine Study Center, the organization's St. Louis headquarters for men.


"In Opus Dei, at least according to the theory, it's not that lay people work alongside or support the priests; it's that the priests and the lay people are all part of one indivisible whole," said John L. Allen Jr., the author of the forthcoming book "Opus Dei."

Saint Josemaria Escriva, who died in 1975, founded the movement to help the Catholic laity "become saints" by dedicating their lives to God through their everyday work - whether they are electricians, police officers, teachers or attorneys - and in doing so, redeem the secular world from the inside out.

LogansPapa
07-14-2008, 12:25 PM
Roman Catholics in the United States are often fairly unfamiliar with their own church doctrines. They just haven't been well taught by their parents or by their religious leadership.

Nothing a nun's ruler couldn't fix.;)

LibraryLady
07-14-2008, 12:49 PM
Have you seen this?

Unborn for Obama (http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/UnbornforObama)
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c12/dtharman/Obama/mx_150my_150.jpg


Unborn for Obama is a group that professes to saving the unborn child by embracing the expectant mother. It underscores the fact that the only way to reduce the abortion rate, and thus save more unborn children, is to embrace expectant mothers through education and information, not by overturning Roe v Wade. This group rejects the Pro-Life Agenda because its sole focus is to overturn Roe v Wade, thus embracing "big brother" as a solution to strike fear in expectant mothers by dangling law enforcement in front of them as a means to make their decision for them. This is why the Pro-Life Agenda FAILS the unborn.

Goldwater
07-14-2008, 01:52 PM
Have you seen this?

Unborn for Obama (http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/UnbornforObama)
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c12/dtharman/Obama/mx_150my_150.jpg

Sounds like a bunch of strong pro-choicers wanting to appeal outside of their field.