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Full-Auto
08-24-2009, 01:31 PM
I've been dishonest with you all for several years. It's time to end the charade and come clean to my fellow form members.

I am in fact a proud traditional liberal.

I am for individual rights, free markets, constitutional limitations to government, civil liberties and even the gold standard.

What? That's right.

The socialist idiots we endure on a daily basis that call themselves "liberals" are in fact impostures. They're fakes, frauds, liars, cheats. Surprising, I know.

Please read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classic_liberal

It's time we take our title back from those that have stolen it from us. We need to expose these idiots, set them straight and reclaim the title for those who fought so hard for it. Our founding fathers were liberals and these clowns running around tarnishing the name need to be put in their place.

Gingersnap
08-24-2009, 04:11 PM
Almost all of us practice "classical liberal" philosphy (not the hateful Rosseau part, of course).

PoliCon
08-24-2009, 04:15 PM
I've been dishonest with you all for several years. It's time to end the charade and come clean to my fellow form members.

I am in fact a proud traditional liberal.

I am for individual rights, free markets, constitutional limitations to government, civil liberties and even the gold standard.

What? That's right.

The socialist idiots we endure on a daily basis that call themselves "liberals" are in fact impostures. They're fakes, frauds, liars, cheats. Surprising, I know.

Please read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classic_liberal

It's time we take our title back from those that have stolen it from us. We need to expose these idiots, set them straight and reclaim the title for those who fought so hard for it. Our founding fathers were liberals and these clowns running around tarnishing the name need to be put in their place.

why do you think I refuse to call them liberals?

Ranger Rick
08-24-2009, 04:15 PM
I had thought they had abandoned it (liberal) for the term "progressive".

PoliCon
08-24-2009, 04:18 PM
I had thought they had abandoned it (liberal) for the term "progressive".

welp they have finally expunged the bad reputation the term progressive rightfully had through their domination of education.

AmPat
08-24-2009, 06:27 PM
welp they have finally expunged the bad reputation the term progressive rightfully had through their domination of education.

You mean of course Progressive destuction. they are dismantling everything we have held dear for many years. Of course they think change is good. Well, we have seen rapid and massive change since the 60's. Are we a better nation now than then? Are things going well in society for instance. We already know how business is,,,,,,and where it will continue under the progressive agenda. What about our media? Our schools? Medicare/Medicaid? Social Security? Postal service?

If we change anything from here on out, it had better be from a trend toward progressive destruction toward Conservatism. A return to our traditional values. Fiscal responsibility. Real civic leaders who represent us instead of a special interest or devotion to a political party or blind ideology. It is time to wake the H up America!

megimoo
08-24-2009, 06:30 PM
I've been dishonest with you all for several years. It's time to end the charade and come clean to my fellow form members.

I am in fact a proud traditional liberal.

I am for individual rights, free markets, constitutional limitations to government, civil liberties and even the gold standard.

What? That's right.

The socialist idiots we endure on a daily basis that call themselves "liberals" are in fact impostures. They're fakes, frauds, liars, cheats. Surprising, I know.

Please read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classic_liberal

It's time we take our title back from those that have stolen it from us. We need to expose these idiots, set them straight and reclaim the title for those who fought so hard for it. Our founding fathers were liberals and these clowns running around tarnishing the name need to be put in their place.

Everyone knows that there is nothing liberal about a liberal !

PoliCon
08-24-2009, 06:32 PM
You mean of course Progressive destuction. they are dismantling everything we have held dear for many years. Of course they think change is good. Well, we have seen rapid and massive change since the 60's. Are we a better nation now than then? Are things going well in society for instance. We already know how business is,,,,,,and where it will continue under the progressive agenda. What about our media? Our schools? Medicare/Medicaid? Social Security? Postal service?

If we change anything from here on out, it had better be from a trend toward progressive destruction toward Conservatism. A return to our traditional values. Fiscal responsibility. Real civic leaders who represent us instead of a special interest or devotion to a political party or blind ideology. It is time to wake the H up America!

They want change - the people want REFORM and have been bamboozled into thinking that they are the same thing.

NJCardFan
08-24-2009, 08:12 PM
I agree with the question of are we better off from 1960 on than we were before?

xavierob82
08-24-2009, 08:12 PM
You are for "individual rights" and "civil liberties" and are a "classical liberal", huh? So you support gay marriage, are a moral relativist, favor open borders, are against racial profiling, are a card-carrying member of the ACLU, and generally view organized religion with a high degree of suspicion and even hostility--like most classical liberals did in their day (along with nationalism)--and are a 100% diehard secularist? And you would have supported the French Revolution had you been alive in the 18th century?

If you answered yes to all or most, or even 50% of the above, then yes, you are in some degree, a"classical liberal" through-and-through. I doubt Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, and Dick Cheney would agree much with the writings of Voltaire, however.

patriot45
08-24-2009, 08:13 PM
Liberal (http://www.conservapedia.com/Liberal), is a dirty word! :D

Lager
08-25-2009, 01:07 AM
You are for "individual rights" and "civil liberties" and are a "classical liberal", huh? So you support gay marriage, are a moral relativist, favor open borders, are against racial profiling, are a card-carrying member of the ACLU, and generally view organized religion with a high degree of suspicion and even hostility--like most classical liberals did in their day (along with nationalism)--and are a 100% diehard secularist? And you would have supported the French Revolution had you been alive in the 18th century?

If you answered yes to all or most, or even 50% of the above, then yes, you are in some degree, a"classical liberal" through-and-through. I doubt Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, and Dick Cheney would agree much with the writings of Voltaire, however.

Wow, there were never any religious liberals. Who would have known.

Gingersnap
08-25-2009, 10:50 AM
You are for "individual rights" and "civil liberties" and are a "classical liberal", huh? So you support gay marriage, are a moral relativist, favor open borders, are against racial profiling, are a card-carrying member of the ACLU, and generally view organized religion with a high degree of suspicion and even hostility--like most classical liberals did in their day (along with nationalism)--and are a 100% diehard secularist? And you would have supported the French Revolution had you been alive in the 18th century?

If you answered yes to all or most, or even 50% of the above, then yes, you are in some degree, a"classical liberal" through-and-through. I doubt Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, and Dick Cheney would agree much with the writings of Voltaire, however.

This is "classical liberalism":


The philosophy of modern classical liberalism includes the importance of human rationality, individual property rights, natural rights, the protection of civil liberties, individual freedom from restraint, equality under the law, constitutional limitation of government, free markets, and a gold standard to facilitate global free trade and place fiscal constraints on government[6], as exemplified in the writings of John Locke, Adam Smith, David Hume, Thomas Jefferson, Voltaire, Frédéric Bastiat, Montesquieu and others. As such, it is the fusion of economic liberalism with political liberalism of the late 18th and 19th centuries.[3]

Thus, according to Razeen Sally the "normative core" of classical liberalism is the idea that a laissez-faire economic policy will bring about a spontaneous order or invisible hand that benefits the society,[7] though it does not necessarily oppose the state's provision of some basic public goods with what constitutes public goods being seen as very limited.[8]

The qualification classical was applied retroactively to distinguish it from more recent, 20th-century conceptions of liberalism and its related movements, such as modern liberalism.[9] Modern classical liberals are suspicious of all but the most minimal government[10] and object to the welfare state[11].

Ludwig von Mises, Friedrich Hayek, and Milton Friedman, are credited with influencing a revival of classical liberalism in the twentieth century after it fell out of favor beginning in the late nineteenth century and much of the twentieth century.[12][13] In relation to economic issues, this revival is sometimes referred to, mainly by its opponents, as "neoliberalism".

It's called "classical" to distinguish it from modern and contemporary liberalism which much more akin to socialism economically and to totalitarianism ideologically.

Rockntractor
08-25-2009, 11:19 AM
Easy! Todays liberals are pinko commies!

Lager
08-25-2009, 11:35 AM
What exactly do liberals mean by "open borders"? I know it's a catch phrase, but do they mean do away with all checkpoints and just let anyone come across at will?

Gingersnap
08-25-2009, 11:39 AM
What exactly do liberals mean by "open borders"? I know it's a catch phrase, but do they mean do away with all checkpoints and just let anyone come across at will?

They mean unrestricted transportation across international boundaries. So, yes - aside from "safety" checks on random vehicles, crossing is completely open.

Libertarians also favor open borders to some degree but only after the entire welfare state and the blood-sucking unions have been demolished. The idea is that without a statist safety net, aliens will either work and become successful or they will starve and go home. :)

PoliCon
08-25-2009, 11:50 AM
They mean unrestricted transportation across international boundaries. So, yes - aside from "safety" checks on random vehicles, crossing is completely open.

Libertarians also favor open borders to some degree but only after the entire welfare state and the blood-sucking unions have been demolished. The idea is that without a statist safety net, aliens will either work and become successful or they will starve and go home. :)

Or we could just levy confiscatory fines against employers who hire illegals.

PoliCon
08-25-2009, 11:54 AM
You have to love how the left tries to eliminate the line between LIBERTY and LICENTIOUSNESS and want us to see them as the same thing. FURTHER they want us to nationally endorse all their deviancy's and give them the protection of the law. Gay's can be married if they want - I have no problem with that. What I object to is the state endorsing such behavior.

BadCat
08-25-2009, 11:58 AM
Or we could just levy confiscatory fines against employers who hire illegals.

We are trying that here in AZ. You have any idea how loud the libs are screaming to stop this?? We got Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton "visiting" the state, we have the Obumble administration guided by our former governor (Jan Napolitano) investigating our county sheriff for conducting workplace raids. We got the ACLU filing law suits against anyone who even says the word "illegal alien", and we got moonbats setting up water stations in the desert so illegals don't die of thirst on their illegal journey north.

PoliCon
08-25-2009, 12:08 PM
We are trying that here in AZ. You have any idea how loud the libs are screaming to stop this?? We got Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton "visiting" the state, we have the Obumble administration guided by our former governor (Jan Napolitano) investigating our county sheriff for conducting workplace raids. We got the ACLU filing law suits against anyone who even says the word "illegal alien", and we got moonbats setting up water stations in the desert so illegals don't die of thirst on their illegal journey north.

and despite all of that - if they can't get jobs - will they stay? NOPE. :)