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Elspeth
07-13-2008, 02:39 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6488421

I am going to quote the whole post because it's important to see that the OP doesn't answer his own question: there are no reasons, just a lot of emotion. This is what bothers me about Barack supporters in general.




Robyn66 Donating Member (165 posts)

Why I am supporting Obama- in case anyone cares ;)


I just finished watching the movie “Bobby” again. It always makes me cry at the end. Not because it’s a particularly great movie, I really didn’t care about the back stories that belonged to the characters, but because of the footage of Bobby Kennedy throughout the film that shows him campaigning for president in 1968. And what he meant to the people of this country.

I was two years old in 1968 so I had no idea of what a year that was. I also come from a REPUBLICAN family. I grew up in one of those families where you voted like your parents did and Daddy let you know who the right people were to vote for thank you very much.

“The Democrats are just no good.” I would hear my Mother and Grandfather say. My Dad was working three jobs at the time in the mid 70’s when I started to question things, and there was never ever a good thing said about a Kennedy in my house, and GOD help you if you tried to argue the fact. I don’t remember debate or discussion-just the truths in the house I grew up in:

Protesters were just drug addicts with nothing important to say-but they hated America and if they didn’t like this country they should get the hell out.

The people who went to Canada to avoid the draft should be brought back and shot for being deserters.

and,

We vote Republican because we Vote Republican. Those Damn Democrats want to put everyone on welfare and tax us to death.

Oh and by the way, the Kennedy’s are no good.

So, I lived my life believing the Kennedy’s were no good and I voted for Regan in the first election I was old enough to vote in and I voted for Daddy Bush like I was supposed to. My mother told me that George wasn’t really pro life and she was sure Barbara was pro-choice so I shouldn’t worry about abortion rights and I wasn’t going to have sex until I was married anyway so why worry about it.? I was in college by the time we had that conversation and had an anxious moment at the Family Planning clinic before I got on the Pill.

Slowly but surely I came to my senses. This really pissed off my parents but by then I was married with kids of my own so I could just hang up the phone. But I never got over my dislike of the Kennedy’s

I did have reasons that developed over time. I don’t think some of them did right by some of the women in their lives, but I had no idea about who they were as politicians.

So when I tell you all this, its because I have only just started learning about what the Kennedy’s stood for over the past couple of years. I really never paid attention to anything Bobby Kennedy did or said until saw “Bobby” and I was moved and touched to my heart at what he said and the ideals he embodied. And now I am reading about him and looking for news clips of his speeches because I just want to hear it all. I can only imagine that must have been somewhat what it was like when he was out in the world in his time.

Our country was in a desperate crisis in 1968 just as it is now, and people pinned all of their hopes on there even being a future on Bobby Kennedy.

Can you compare Barak Obama to Bobby Kennedy? In most ways I don’t think you can. I think that Bobby Kennedy was a once in a lifetime politician with a once in a life time vision.

But I do think that we are in a similar circumstance, if not a more dire one than 1968. We not only have a war without end but we have assaults on the constitution and now a congress who seems to be too timid to act as we have directed them.

One thing is for sure, Barak Obama must win in November. We are in a desperate place now that the people of 1968 were in. We need Barak Obama to win. We need him for the Environment, Women’s Rights and to regain respect in the world.

I am willing to look past FISA because I trust him. Frankly, I don’t care what he has to do to get elected as long as he gets elected. I have faith that he is going to correct a lot of these aberrations once he is president.

I have never been lucky enough to see Barak speak in person but I hope to some day. But even watching him on TV giving a speech grips me and makes me feel that if we can only hang on we will be ok. I believe him and I believe in him and I have never felt that way about a politician and I have never given money to a political campaign until now.

I am not normally a starry eyed “Believer” I am actually pretty cynical and believe and expect the worst from people because in my experience in life it’s a fair bet that is what you will get. But Barak is different.

So in spite of his human flaws I will do anything I can to get him elected.

He may not be Bobby Kennedy but I feel in my heart he is our generation’s Bobby Kennedy.

megimoo
07-13-2008, 02:48 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6488421

I am going to quote the whole post because it's important to see that the OP doesn't answer his own question: there are no reasons, just a lot of emotion. This is what bothers me about Barack supporters in general.Drama Queen,the DUmp is chock full of them !

movie buff
07-13-2008, 02:52 PM
For someone who claims to be in love with Obama so much, she apparently can't even correctly spell his first name, and the frequency and consistency of that error shows that it's not a typo.

Elspeth
07-13-2008, 03:32 PM
I am going to take this apart, especially for the "visitors."

The post above, "Why I am supporting Obama-in case anyone cares" should be giving reasons for supporting Barack Obama. Reasons are like evidence: they need to be truthful, factual, and persuasive to the reading audience. However, the reader of "Why I am supporting Obama-in case anyone cares" has to HUNT for reasons since they are not really stated. Let's outline the "argument."

The post starts with a long personal story about the OP's family background and her feelings about Bobby Kennedy. This sets up an implied comparison between Bobby and Barack, but there is no direct comparison of their ideals or positions. What we get is this:




Can you compare Barak Obama to Bobby Kennedy? In most ways I don’t think you can. I think that Bobby Kennedy was a once in a lifetime politician with a once in a life time vision....

He may not be Bobby Kennedy but I feel in my heart he is our generation’s Bobby Kennedy.


Neither of these quotes gives any information about either man. They merely point out that the OP feels that Barack Obama is not Bobby Kennedy. The second sentence is self contradictory: Either Barack Obama is Bobby Kennedy or he's not, and the OP should give some reasons, some points of comparison. She does not.

If the OP was trying to say she is voting for Barack Obama because he is like Bobby Kennedy, then she is not doing a good job of it. But why is she voting for Barack? The closest thing to reasons are:




But I do think that we are in a similar circumstance, if not a more dire one than 1968. We not only have a war without end but we have assaults on the constitution and now a congress who seems to be too timid to act as we have directed them.



These points are interesting. The OP is saying that while Barack is not Bobby, our situation in 2008 is as dire as it was in 1968. She brings up the war in Iraq, with an implicit comparison to Vietnam (I assume), She brings up assaults on the Constitution. While it's a weak argument (it needs a lot more fleshing out), at least the OP is trying to directly compare 2008 to 1968 politically. This is a little better than her attempt to compare Barack and Bobby.

But she still does not explain why she's voting for Barack Obama. She does not bring up his voting record, his stands on the issues, any special abilities he brings to the job, or any special talents as a campaigner. All she says is:



One thing is for sure, Barak Obama must win in November. We are in a desperate place now that the people of 1968 were in. We need Barak Obama to win.


So, she is voting for Barack because the country is in a desperate place? She has not demonstrated how Obama is at all suited to deal with the world in a desperate place. She actually has not described any of his positions or attributes at all. All she does is repeat that we "need" him:



We need him for the Environment, Women’s Rights and to regain respect in the world.


She does not show how Barack will save the environment or even show his record on the environment. As far as "Women's Rights" is concerned, the OP seems unaware that Obama has been backtracking on Roe V. Wade* and that his campaign has depended upon sexism as a weapon against Hillary Clinton.** Finally, the OP does not show how Barack can help the US regain respect in the world. The OP is not aware that Barack has already made Germany's chancellor uncomfortable with his use of the Brandenburg Gate as a political backdrop. *** If Barack is going to help upgrade the image of the US, he hasn't made a great start.

The one position of Barack's that the OP does seem to be aware of is his FISA vote:



I am willing to look past FISA because I trust him.


If the OP is voting for Barack because of the current constitutional crisis ("...we have assaults on the constitution and now a congress who seems to be too timid to act as we have directed them"), then she certainly has to put blinders on where FISA is concerned, because that vote actually proves that Obama is not as concerned about the Constitution as the OP is. The interesting thing, is that the OP shows NO OTHER EVIDENCE of Barack's votes on consitutional issues. There is no evidence at all here to support why she is voting for him. In the absence of evidence, she can only vote for him because she "trusts him": she has "faith":


Frankly, I don’t care what he has to do to get elected as long as he gets elected. I have faith that he is going to correct a lot of these aberrations once he is president.

She believes that Barack voted for FISA to get elected President. She believes that this vote was an aberration, not a part of a pattern. And she "has faith" that Barack will "correct" these aberrations. Correct them? Does she mean have Democratic Senators pen a bill to make telecom companies criminally liable for their spying? Does she mean a bill to reinstate regulations on how and when a citizen's phone line may be tapped? I am not sure which it is, but that's a lot of faith to have, especially when the majority of Democrats supported the FISA bill.

In the end, the OP doesn't have facts to back up her vote for Obama, only personal, emotional opinions. Emotion is fine if you're voting on American Idol. It is NOT fine when you are voting for a candidate to the highest political office in the land.



I am not normally a starry eyed “Believer” I am actually pretty cynical and believe and expect the worst from people because in my experience in life it’s a fair bet that is what you will get. But Barak is different.


And here it is: she is voting for Barack because he is "different", whatever that means to her. She has not shown how he is different. There's no evidence that he is different: in fact, the one piece of evidence she mentions--the FISA vote--actually shows him to be quite the same as the Democratic Congress "who seems to be too timid to act as we have directed them."

So why is she voting for Barack?

Because she is looking for a Bobby Kennedy.

She is looking for a hero.

And as Barack Obama himself has written in The Audacity of Hope: " I am new enough on the national political scene that I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views."

Obama has made it possible for the OP to project her needs and wants onto his "blank screen." That is why she is voting for Obama.



*http://www.fortmilltimes.com/108/story/214944.html

**http://www.salon.com/mwt/broadsheet/2008/04/04/randi_rhodes/index.html?source=rss
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080712/ap_on_el_pr/obama_bernie_mac

***http://wcbstv.com/campaign08/obama.Brandenburg.Gate.2.766946.html

SarasotaRepub
07-13-2008, 04:59 PM
Frankly, I don’t care what he has to do to get elected as long as he gets elected. I have faith that he is going to correct a lot of these aberrations once he is president.

This statement all alone is very scary. He can lie through his teeth on where he stands or doesn't and it makes no difference to her. Man oh Manachevits!!! :eek:

Elspeth
07-13-2008, 05:29 PM
This statement all alone is very scary. He can lie through his teeth on where he stands or doesn't and it makes no difference to her. Man oh Manachevits!!! :eek:

EXACTLY. She's voting for a projection from her own mind.

Dan D. Doty
07-13-2008, 11:24 PM
Drama Queen,the DUmp is chock full of them !

No kidding :rolleyes: