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View Full Version : Gardeners, I need your help.



MountainMan
08-31-2009, 09:48 PM
Im great at running a lawn tractor, rototiller, putting down herbicide, pesticide and Obamacide. I can open a package of seeds and throw them on the ground and watch the plants grow....however, Ive never planted a tree from a seed from an existing fruit tree. My kid wants a seed from the neighbors plum tree to plant it himself. The question is how do I do it? Do I wait for the fruit to wither away from the seed or can we take it immediately out of the fruit and throw it in the ground? What do I need to do?

Teetop
08-31-2009, 09:56 PM
Ask someone who know's, what you're talking about?

MountainMan
08-31-2009, 09:57 PM
Ask someone who know's, what you're talking about?

Aren't you a great friggen help..... lol

megimoo
08-31-2009, 09:58 PM
Im great at running a lawn tractor, rototiller, putting down herbicide, pesticide and Obamacide. I can open a package of seeds and throw them on the ground and watch the plants grow....however, Ive never planted a tree from a seed from an existing fruit tree. My kid wants a seed from the neighbors plum tree to plant it himself. The question is how do I do it? Do I wait for the fruit to wither away from the seed or can we take it immediately out of the fruit and throw it in the ground? What do I need to do?

How many years would I lose planting a plum tree from seed
...................
The plums from seed will not be true to the form of the parent. I don't know how close it will be having never grown plums from seed. In general most fruits do not come true from seed since the seed will be a cross of the parent and the pollinating plant.
..........................
If you want an identical tree you need to take some wood of the original tree and graft it to a rootstock. If you wanted to avoid buying anything you could grow out a few of the seeds and then in a few years graft the original tree to your seedling trees.
..............................
Grafting onto a rootstock of the same tree at first glance may not seem to make much sense. But the juvenile period of growth would actually in most cases be shortened, meaning the tree will bloom and bear earlier, as well as assuring you will get the fruit you want. Plum trees from my personal experience have been grafted onto rootstock for at least 75 years and I would buy a rootstock suited to your soil and climate to graft my old plum on. Al
..................................
Grafting is much easier than you might think. Read up on it this winter. And start grafting in the spring. I just started grafting this spring and had about 80% success rate. I only used grafting tape, electrical tape, and a sharp knife. If you want to get a jump start on your crop, buy a larger plum tree from a nursery, Home Depot, etc. then graft to it. I would still have a backup with the seedlings/graft mentioned above though too.
...............................
Since you're here in Portland, go to the Home Orchard Society's page to learn about their rootstock sales -- typically every March, and inexpensive, too.
...........................
If your goal is a good fruit tree of the same type you've been eating, just buy the rootstock appropriate for your area and graft onto it.

You'll get the best results that way.
............................
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/fruit/msg082033362709.html

Teetop
08-31-2009, 10:01 PM
Dirt, water and sun....

:confused:

edit to add;

what else does a seed need?


Water.

Sun.

????????????????????

MountainMan
08-31-2009, 10:03 PM
How many years would I lose planting a plum tree from seed
...................
The plums from seed will not be true to the form of the parent. I don't know how close it will be having never grown plums from seed. In general most fruits do not come true from seed since the seed will be a cross of the parent and the pollinating plant.
..........................
If you want an identical tree you need to take some wood of the original tree and graft it to a rootstock. If you wanted to avoid buying anything you could grow out a few of the seeds and then in a few years graft the original tree to your seedling trees.
..............................
Grafting onto a rootstock of the same tree at first glance may not seem to make much sense. But the juvenile period of growth would actually in most cases be shortened, meaning the tree will bloom and bear earlier, as well as assuring you will get the fruit you want. Plum trees from my personal experience have been grafted onto rootstock for at least 75 years and I would buy a rootstock suited to your soil and climate to graft my old plum on. Al
..................................
Grafting is much easier than you might think. Read up on it this winter. And start grafting in the spring. I just started grafting this spring and had about 80% success rate. I only used grafting tape, electrical tape, and a sharp knife. If you want to get a jump start on your crop, buy a larger plum tree from a nursery, Home Depot, etc. then graft to it. I would still have a backup with the seedlings/graft mentioned above though too.
...............................
Since you're here in Portland, go to the Home Orchard Society's page to learn about their rootstock sales -- typically every March, and inexpensive, too.
...........................
If your goal is a good fruit tree of the same type you've been eating, just buy the rootstock appropriate for your area and graft onto it.

You'll get the best results that way.
............................
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/fruit/msg082033362709.html

Thanks Meg....that gives me another project to work on with my kids over the winter. I appreciate it.

Teetop
08-31-2009, 10:04 PM
Aren't you a great friggen help..... lol

Thanks, gator.

MountainMan
08-31-2009, 10:04 PM
Dirt, water and sun....

:confused:

edit to add;

what else does a seed need?


Water.

Sun.

????????????????????

What I was getting at though was if you need to allow the seed to cure of sorts.

megimoo
08-31-2009, 10:04 PM
Dirt, water and sun....

:confused:

edit to add;

what else does a seed need?


Water.

Sun.

????????????????????Time,lots of time !

Rockntractor
08-31-2009, 10:53 PM
Im great at running a lawn tractor, rototiller, putting down herbicide, pesticide and Obamacide. I can open a package of seeds and throw them on the ground and watch the plants grow....however, Ive never planted a tree from a seed from an existing fruit tree. My kid wants a seed from the neighbors plum tree to plant it himself. The question is how do I do it? Do I wait for the fruit to wither away from the seed or can we take it immediately out of the fruit and throw it in the ground? What do I need to do?

I've grown lot's of trees from seed. Take the seeds from several ripe plums and put them in the freezer for a couple of months. This is called stratification a tree seed has to go through "winter" before it will germinate. Plant the seed in a pot with a 50-50 sphagnum moss potting soil mixture and keep watered.
When the tree is three years old you take a cutting from the plumb tree you are wanting to duplicate in the winter while it is dormant. You cut your saplings six inches high and graft on your cuttings. If you try to grow a fruit tree from seed without grafting it will not turn out like it's domesticated parent it will have very small fruit like a wild tree. By grafting you will get a clone of the parent.

Rockntractor
08-31-2009, 11:03 PM
Sorry Mr. Moo I didn't see your post above. Grafting and starting fruit trees was A hobby of mine for years. I grafted both directly to root cuttings from tees and to seedlings it all depended on whether I wanted dwarf, semi-dwarf or full sized trees. I had an orchard with several hundred tees and my neighbor was cooking meth and burned everything but my house about fifteen years ago. Three pear trees and a few rootstock's survived! A couple of years later he burned his house down and last I heard he was in prison.

megimoo
08-31-2009, 11:54 PM
Sorry Mr. Moo I didn't see your post above. Grafting and starting fruit trees was A hobby of mine for years. I grafted both directly to root cuttings from tees and to seedlings it all depended on whether I wanted dwarf, semi-dwarf or full sized trees. I had an orchard with several hundred tees and my neighbor was cooking meth and burned everything but my house about fifteen years ago. Three pear trees and a few rootstock's survived! A couple of years later he burned his house down and last I heard he was in prison.
The grafting trick definitely works quite well.You can even graft cuttings from several different species of same species tree or several different variety's of fruit cuttings to the same tree.

You can graft apple to peach or peach to apple .Some types of cuttings will not 'take' so it requires some book work and some experimental work but hey it's lots of fun !

Fruit trees also require both male and females to 'breed' ,If that is the correct word,to produce fruit .I wonder if it is possible to splice both male and female cuttings to the same tree into a Sort of hermaphrodite sex_confused tree ?

Rockntractor
09-01-2009, 12:00 AM
The grafting trick definitely works quite well.You can even graft cuttings from several different species of same species tree or several different variety's of fruit cuttings to the same tree.

You can graft apple to peach or peach to apple .Some types of cuttings will not 'take' so it requires some book work and some experimental work but hey it's lots of fun !

Fruit trees also require both male and females to 'breed' ,If that is the correct word,to produce fruit .I wonder if it is possible to splice both male and female cuttings to the same tree into a Sort of hermaphrodite sex_confused tree ?


I used too combine pollinators on the same tree all the time it increases production!

megimoo
09-01-2009, 12:04 AM
I used too combine pollinators on the same tree all the time it increases production!How about both male and female to the same tree?

Rockntractor
09-01-2009, 12:08 AM
How about both male and female to the same tree?

Thats what I meant it increases pollination when they are on the same tree.

megimoo
09-01-2009, 12:35 AM
Thats what I meant it increases pollination when they are on the same tree.
It would if the grafts actually 'took 'and you say that they do,good work !

Species of of the same fruits and entirely different fruits grafted to the same tree would be interesting an an experiment .The Japanese are expert in this cross species grafting's and in general fruit cross pollination .They have worked with fast germinating melon's especially water melon's producing a quasi seedless variety .They have developed nitrogen fixing rice and soy as an improvement in the national grains of Japan .

Rockntractor
09-01-2009, 12:52 AM
It would if the grafts actually 'took 'and you say that they do,good work !

Species of of the same fruits and entirely different fruits grafted to the same tree would be interesting an an experiment .The Japanese are expert in this cross species grafting's and in general fruit cross pollination .They have worked with fast germinating melon's especially water melon's producing a quasi seedless variety .They have developed nitrogen fixing rice and soy as an improvement in the national grains of Japan .

The Israelis are also experts in this field. Luther Burbank is still the most famous !

megimoo
09-01-2009, 01:01 AM
The Israelis are also experts in this field. Luther Burbank is still the most famous !

Did you see this one ?
Three Ways to Make a New Plant !

RobJohnson
09-01-2009, 02:28 AM
Very interesting thread.

Rockntractor
09-01-2009, 02:53 AM
Very interesting thread.

Grafting is addictive!

Gingersnap
09-01-2009, 09:52 AM
Well, I get the idea that Mau's kid just wants to grow a tree from seed for the heck of it. He's probably not overly concerned with fruit quality or pollination. Let's face it - the kid will probably be in college before there's enough fruit to do anything with anyway.

If it's just a tree-planting project (as opposed to a plum production project) get several of the plums and let them ripen and then remove the pulp. Throw them in water and get rid of any that float. Plums need a chilling phase to germinate but since fall is right around the corner, just let Mother Nature do the work.

Find a good place to site the tree and dig a hole about 8 inches deep and 8 inches wide. Fill it with good soil and compost and then plant the pit (you will want to plant several in other holes close by). Pound in a stake so you remember what they are and where they are and then see what happens next spring. You can start them inside over the winter but in my experience they will be weak and probably won't harden off properly. If they come up, select the nicest and kill the others.

If the kid really wants plums to eat raw or can, you're better off buying a 2 or 3 year old tree that's already been grafted and planting that. Alternatively, you could buy seeds from an heirloom seed supplier and go that route. There's a reason that people don't clamor for heirloom plums, though. :p

Rockntractor
09-01-2009, 10:00 AM
Ginger how are your mossy rocks looking I haven't asked you in awhile.

Gingersnap
09-01-2009, 10:21 AM
Ginger how are your mossy rocks looking I haven't asked you in awhile.

Actually, surprisingly well! It's been so wet out here this summer. I don't know what will happen when the weather gets back to "normal" but they look all ancient and zen-like right now. :)

RobJohnson
09-01-2009, 11:23 AM
Ginger how are your mossy rocks looking I haven't asked you in awhile.



:eek:

Gingersnap
09-01-2009, 11:34 AM
:eek:

You'll burn in Hell for that thought, Rob. :p