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Gingersnap
09-09-2009, 09:23 AM
We'll have another day or two of great weather before the temps tank on Friday. I'm still not ready for fall.

I happened to catch Dennis Prager yesterday and he was discussing a fascinating question: are human beings essentially good? He believes that your answer to this question also reveals much about your attitude toward God, society, politics, and social contracts.

TOTD: Are human beings born essentially good, essentially bad, or essentially amoral?

Yes, this will count toward your midterm grade. :D

Shannon
09-09-2009, 10:06 AM
It's hot here today. I can't wait for "winter".





TOTD:I think most people are essentially good.

megimoo
09-09-2009, 10:09 AM
St. Thomas and the Problem of Evil

In these instances evil is always a privation of a good in a subject.
"Something is lost,missing in mankind !"

St. Thomas Aquinas,The Dumb Ox of Sicily
http://www.cse.dmu.ac.uk/~mward/gkc/books/aquinas.html#chap1

'Evil' is the opposite of 'good'. Accordingly a thing which lacks its perfection will be evil. St. Thomas defines evil as a privation of something which a being should have. Thus a man who is blind is deprived of the faculty of sight in a totally different manner to a mole:

for the mole this privation is in contrast to generic animal nature: for man, on the other hand, it is in contrast to his own normal nature. Accordingly, a privation exists whenever a being, which by nature and at a given time should possess an attribute, does not have it.

According to Aristotle a privation is always in a subject. But in the platonic tradition it is seen as something subsistent and is identified with matter.
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We can study evil as it occurs concretely and divide it into the following classes: evil in nature (malum naturale), evil in human work (malum artificale) and moral evil in human actions (malum morale).

In these instances evil is always a privation of a good in a subject.

read the rest .
http://www.cts.org.au/2005/universitas12/probevil.html

..................................

Rockntractor
09-09-2009, 10:14 AM
I'm a Calvinist. My views on this subject in this day and age are not very popular.

BadCat
09-09-2009, 10:17 AM
People, in general, are pieces of crap, a waste of genetic material, an experiment gone wrong. The vast majority of people should never have been born.

That's why I'm a fan of eugenics.

Gingersnap
09-09-2009, 10:30 AM
I'm a Calvinist. My views on this subject in this day and age are not very popular.

LOL! I'm voting with the "essentially evil" crowd. :D

megimoo
09-09-2009, 10:31 AM
People, in general, are pieces of crap, a waste of genetic material, an experiment gone wrong. The vast majority of people should never have been born.

That's why I'm a fan of eugenics.Why then does GOD love us ?

Gingersnap
09-09-2009, 10:39 AM
Why then does GOD love us ?

Because we don't have to be evil, we just want to. We can change.

Rockntractor
09-09-2009, 10:41 AM
LOL! I'm voting with the "essentially evil" crowd. :D

Total Depravity
http://www.lgmarshall.org/Pink/pink_depravity.html
Aurthur Pink says it well for me! He has always been one of my favorite authors.

Shannon
09-09-2009, 10:49 AM
I can't believe I'm the optimist on this one.

Rockntractor
09-09-2009, 10:51 AM
I can't believe I'm the optimist on this one.

How can you be optimist in the power of man and not the power of God!

megimoo
09-09-2009, 11:04 AM
Total Depravity
http://www.lgmarshall.org/Pink/pink_depravity.html
Aurthur Pink says it well for me! He has always been one of my favorite authors.According to Aurthur Pink Is there any hope of salvation ?

Rockntractor
09-09-2009, 11:18 AM
According to Aurthur Pink Is there any hope of salvation ?
Absolutely! Read him.

noonwitch
09-09-2009, 11:59 AM
I think most people are essentially good most of the time. There are truly bad people out there, but they are the minority. They cause a disproportional amount of damage for their small numbers.

Rebel Yell
09-09-2009, 12:15 PM
I think most people are essentially good most of the time. There are truly bad people out there, but they are the minority. They cause a disproportional amount of damage for their small numbers.

Wow, you sound alot like stsinner.;)

Gingersnap
09-09-2009, 12:37 PM
I think most people are essentially good most of the time. There are truly bad people out there, but they are the minority. They cause a disproportional amount of damage for their small numbers.

I'm not so sure. A lot of "good" people routinely generate chaos and emotional mayhem. They make self-centered decisions and fail to anticipate the small "e" evil of those consequences. They drag their children and relatives along for the ride. And those are the "good" people.

The consciously bad people are even worse.

noonwitch
09-09-2009, 12:51 PM
I'm not so sure. A lot of "good" people routinely generate chaos and emotional mayhem. They make self-centered decisions and fail to anticipate the small "e" evil of those consequences. They drag their children and relatives along for the ride. And those are the "good" people..



I see you've met my mother.

Gingersnap
09-09-2009, 01:06 PM
I see you've met my mother.

LOL! See what I mean? :D

samurai
09-09-2009, 01:33 PM
I'd say most people are born selfish, rather than good or evil. They learn good and evil from their surroundings and experiences.

FlaGator
09-09-2009, 01:37 PM
Humans are basically born evil. Some more so than others but all are born with a inherent ability to deceive. What is one of the first things a child learns to do?

Mom: " Little Bad Cat, did you make this mess"
Little Bad Cat: "No mom it was the fag next door" :-)

Teetop
09-09-2009, 01:38 PM
I believe that most people are born somewhat good, then they are influenced by their surroundings and input of others into their lives. Although, one might be born into a nurturing environment and have terrible traits later on. Or, vice versa...

Gingersnap
09-09-2009, 02:29 PM
Humans are basically born evil. Some more so than others but all are born with a inherent ability to deceive. What is one of the first things a child learns to do?

Mom: " Little Bad Cat, did you make this mess"
Little Bad Cat: "No mom it was the fag next door" :-)

Man! It's you were right there! :D

Crystal Wizard
09-09-2009, 02:37 PM
Gloomy day here in Nu Joisey.

TOTD: Your question presumes that "good" and "evil" exist. I don't know if I will give you that assumption. :D

Gingersnap
09-09-2009, 03:32 PM
Gloomy day here in Nu Joisey.

TOTD: Your question presumes that "good" and "evil" exist. I don't know if I will give you that assumption. :D

Oh, go ahead and let me have it. It'll be fun. ;)

BSR
09-09-2009, 03:34 PM
I think you're born good. Shannon and her boss turn you evil.. :mad:

megimoo
09-09-2009, 03:46 PM
I think most people are essentially good most of the time. There are truly bad people out there, but they are the minority. They cause a disproportional amount of damage for their small numbers.

Case in point Ted Kennedy !He no doubt started with good intentions as he was fiercely Pro Life when he took his brothers senate seat but the expediency's of his office forced him to compromise his virtues and his whole belief system .
........................................
Back during the middle ages when a prince,a king or even a very wealthy man with any power to sway the public by his bad example or riding 'roughshod over peoples and the church would as a warning first be threaten with excommunication and if that failed they would begin the process of listing his evil faults and failings at mass for all to hear.
.........................
There was a danger to the bishop and his priests during the procedure as evidenced in the death of Thomas Becket. Murdered by order of Henry the second of England.
............................
The process was very formal and lasted several weeks beginning with a litany of their sins against GOD and his church .The crescendo of the chants and the trappings of the bishop and priests on the altars would be black and dirge like.
........................
The final formal excommunication would be a 'black mass' with black candles and a final removal from Christ's salvation and an offering to the demon of the soul of the offender by extingushing the black candles by inverting them into a tray .
............................

The judgement against them included the denial of any shelter,food,
drink and charity towards the excommunicant and a curse and a threat of the same to any who helped them .

The church in those days was all powerfull in maters of salvation and most people firmly believed in the Churches power to deny entry into the afterlife,heaven.Christs,Keys to the Kingdom, words to St.Peter were always on their minds.

If by virtue or lack of virtue because of their support for abortions Pelosi and Sebalias were subject to the churches initial warning of non Communion with Christ just what their reactions would be.

I am sure there would be a horrendous outcry from the usual suspects but the social and spiritual reaction from them would be edifying,Would they choose life or death ?

If Kennedy was informed that his soul was in grave jeopardy after he was diagnosed or just before his death how would he react.
......................
Sad to say that the America political reality's of today are such that you must be a baby killer to be elected to high office and once in office further moral character failings are necessary just to keep the office.
.........................
We've seen it in quite a few elected professed Catholic officials.Kennedy,
Pelosi,Sibelius,Fr.Robert Drinan SJ,VP Joe Biden,Mario Cuomo,Gillibrand (NY); Reed (RI); Leahy (VT); Cantwell (WA); Menendez (NJ); Murray (WV); Begich (AL); Dodd (CT); Landrieu (LA); Harkin (IA); Kerry (MA); McCaskill (MO); Mikulski (MD); Durbin (IL) and Kaufman (DE).
.....................................
http://insidecatholic.com/Joomla/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5319&Itemid=80

BadCat
09-09-2009, 04:17 PM
Humans are basically born evil. Some more so than others but all are born with a inherent ability to deceive. What is one of the first things a child learns to do?

Mom: " Little Bad Cat, did you make this mess"
Little Bad Cat: "No mom it was the fag next door" :-)

Not quite, I had a little brother to blame that on.

However, I did spend the first 5 years or so of my life trying to kill him.
Too bad I failed, he grew up to be a liberal.

Bubba Dawg
09-09-2009, 07:18 PM
Total Depravity in Adam as the federal head of the race.

Universal Salvation in Christ, the new Adam

Jumpy
09-09-2009, 07:38 PM
TOTD- born bad and selfish. (I wouldnt say that most are born evil though) For example, children have to be taught to share. Another example, I will never forget catching my son, at 5 years old, getting ready to smash my 2 year old daughters foot in a door because he was mad at her!

What Ginger said about "good people" wreaking emotional havoc on others.. I agree. I know folks like that, and I have not been innocent of that myself.

We are born bad. Most of us are not evil, like Hitler.. but we are bad. We just dont like to admit it.

Crystal Wizard
09-09-2009, 09:27 PM
Oh, go ahead and let me have it. It'll be fun. ;)

Is a man who kills another man for food to feed his wife and child "good" or "evil?"

Crystal Wizard
09-09-2009, 09:31 PM
TOTD- born bad and selfish. (I wouldnt say that most are born evil though) For example, children have to be taught to share. Another example, I will never forget catching my son, at 5 years old, getting ready to smash my 2 year old daughters foot in a door because he was mad at her!

What Ginger said about "good people" wreaking emotional havoc on others.. I agree. I know folks like that, and I have not been innocent of that myself.

We are born bad. Most of us are not evil, like Hitler.. but we are bad. We just dont like to admit it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMbATaj7Il8

Hey, Jumps! :D

Bubba Dawg
09-09-2009, 09:33 PM
Is a man who kills another man for food for his wife and child "good" or "evil?"

It depends. If he kills an Italian, who could blame him?

Everybody loves Italian food.

megimoo
09-10-2009, 09:13 AM
It depends. If he kills an Italian, who could blame him?

Everybody loves Italian food.
Only Northern Italian food.Too much Tomato sauce gives me a heartburn !