PDA

View Full Version : Recommend a handgun.. I want ammo availability and affordabliity... Go



stsinner
09-13-2009, 12:03 AM
I've got $600, and I want to buy a new handgun.. I want a gun that has ammo available, and i want stopping power... What are y our recommendations?

Full-Auto??

patriot45
09-13-2009, 12:10 AM
I've got $600, and I want to buy a new handgun.. I want a gun that has ammo available, and i want stopping power... What are y our recommendations?

Full-Auto??

If you want a fun gun, we have talked about the Judge from Taurus. It shoots the 45 Colt and 410 slugs or shot shells. Its right around $600.

stsinner
09-13-2009, 12:22 AM
Thanks, Patriot45.. Would you recommend a .22? I viewed a sweet .22 today for $250...

djones520
09-13-2009, 12:23 AM
Thanks, Patriot45.. Would you recommend a .22? I viewed a sweet .22 today for $250...

Didn't you just say you wanted stopping power?

stsinner
09-13-2009, 12:26 AM
Didn't you just say you wanted stopping power?

Yeah, but I've read that the .22 to the head is unbelievably deadly because of its speed and the way it bounces around... I don't hunt, so my guns are only for self defense and defense of my family, and living in MA, I'm not going to shoot an intruder tin the chest where they may survive.. I'm going for head shots so they can't sue me... Would a .22 pistol provide this protection'?

Rockntractor
09-13-2009, 12:28 AM
Yeah, but I've read that the .22 to the head is unbelievably deadly because of its speed and the way it bounces around...

The bouncing around is a myth

Rockntractor
09-13-2009, 12:30 AM
A 40 cal glock is a good choice for an auto. I'm a revolver man. I always have a 357 smith with me!

djones520
09-13-2009, 12:31 AM
Yeah, but I've read that the .22 to the head is unbelievably deadly because of its speed and the way it bounces around... I don't hunt, so my guns are only for self defense and defense of my family, and living in MA, I'm not going to shoot an intruder tin the chest where they may survive.. I'm going for head shots so they can't sue me... Would a .22 pistol provide this protection'?

Aiming solely for the head is not a way to defend yourself. Smaller target, less to hit. A heavier caliber to the chest will drop someone just as easily, and it's much easier to hit. If you're forced to shoot a hopped up PCP head in the chest with a .22 your just going to piss him off even more.

stsinner
09-13-2009, 12:32 AM
A 40 cal glock is a good choice for an auto. I'm a revolver man. I always have a 357 smith with me!

What are we talking for a good .357 and is ammo available?

Speedy
09-13-2009, 12:33 AM
A 40 cal glock is a good choice for an auto. I'm a revolver man. I always have a 357 smith with me!

I have a .41 Magnum Revolver that I inherited when my dad died. Fucker kicks like nobody's business.

patriot45
09-13-2009, 12:34 AM
Thanks, Patriot45.. Would you recommend a .22? I viewed a sweet .22 today for $250...

I wouldn't know, my smallest gun is my carry piece, a little S&W .38 airwieght. You can get that for about $400, I also got the Crimson Trace laser grip and a paddle holster, it has stopping power. A .22 is good for squirrels! :D

I bought a Glock 10mm on a gun buy here at CU for $600, the next one I get an e-mail on, I'll let you know.

patriot45
09-13-2009, 12:36 AM
I have a .41 Magnum Revolver that I inherited when my dad died. Fucker kicks like nobody's business.

Yea, they are a powerhouse, I got a Ruger Blackhawk in 41 mag, its a beast.

Rockntractor
09-13-2009, 12:37 AM
What are we talking for a good .357 and is ammo available?

I put 700 in my smith but it is a seven shot.You could get a taurus for about 500 or a six shot smith for 600 I only buy stainless steel.

RobJohnson
09-13-2009, 12:48 AM
My town is having a 100 table gun show as part of a wild west celebration.

You don't need to be a dealer to rent a space & sell....this should be good!

Speedy
09-13-2009, 02:08 AM
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y236/speed_addiction/Fun/2009-08-05_124702.jpg

My dad always said, Pachmayr grips are for pussies. Since he died a couple of years ago, I plan to getting some Pachmayr grips to help tame this Bad Boy.

sgrooms
09-13-2009, 02:24 AM
I don't know. I carry a .44 magnum in the pickup and 12 ga shotgun in the house.

A nice .44 would be under your price range, but ammo can be expensive. But you won't find much better for stopping power.

Speedy
09-13-2009, 02:47 AM
I don't know. I carry a .44 magnum in the pickup and 12 ga shotgun in the house.

A nice .44 would be under your price range, but ammo can be expensive. But you won't find much better for stopping power.

A .44, .357 Mag, .41 Mag or .44 Mag are terrible self defense weapons for a novice or anyone not living in the boonies like I do. If you are not going to be on target with your first shot, you will not get a second one. If you have only a .44, .357 Mag, .41 Mag or .44 Mag for home defense, load it up with hollow points so the rounds won't exit whoever you are shooting at and penetrate several walls like ball ammo.

If big bore is your style and you do not want a revolver, I would recomend an automatic in .45 ACP.

AlmostThere
09-13-2009, 04:29 AM
A 40 cal glock is a good choice for an auto. I'm a revolver man. I always have a 357 smith with me!

I've got the Glock 23, a 40 cal. I love it. Be warned however, 40 cal ammo is HARD to find. DHS has some gigantic order with ammo makers for 40 cal ammo. It is really tough finding ammo ever since.

AlmostThere
09-13-2009, 04:40 AM
Yeah, but I've read that the .22 to the head is unbelievably deadly because of its speed and the way it bounces around... I don't hunt, so my guns are only for self defense and defense of my family, and living in MA, I'm not going to shoot an intruder tin the chest where they may survive.. I'm going for head shots so they can't sue me... Would a .22 pistol provide this protection'?

Is this a weapon for your home or to carry on your person? If for the home or even auto, a shotgun is far more effective. My Mossberg 12 guage comes with an optional pistol grip and the barrel is 18.5" I believe. Very effective weapon even in very close quarters. Double aught buckshot practically anywhere above the waist and you will not be getting sued. :eek:

expat-pattaya
09-13-2009, 04:41 AM
Based on your needs. i.e. stopping power, available ammo, and one assumes reliable and easy to maintain and repair, there is little to discuss.

.45 ACP
Most likely a Glock

Take to heart the message others gave about the .22. It is NOT a self defense round. Yeah, assassins use it but only up close to the back of the head. It can bounce off a skull in front and if it hits the body even if it is a fatal wound, the guy might not know it for several minutes and might kill you in the meantime. Plus, .22s are not as reliable feeding as a .45.

The Glock should be accurate enough out of the box, easy to clean, and reliable. I suggest you figure out which one fits your hand. Double stack or single. For me, the G30 is what I carry in the rare event I need to. I trust it and can hit what I aim at and it WILL fire when I pull the trigger - of that I am certain.

Oh, and I suspect .45 ammo will be available for a long time to come :D

Speedy
09-13-2009, 05:18 AM
.45 ACP
Most likely a Glock :D

I agree with the caliber, but not the weapon. I am more of a purist and would choose an M1911 over a Glock. But that is just a matter of personal choice.

One of my pieces is a Colt M1911 that my grandfather bought in 1922 at a feedstore not too far from my house. The business has been closed since before I was born but the building is still there.

expat-pattaya
09-13-2009, 09:02 AM
I agree with the caliber, but not the weapon. I am more of a purist and would choose an M1911 over a Glock. But that is just a matter of personal choice.

One of my pieces is a Colt M1911 that my grandfather bought in 1922 at a feedstore not too far from my house. The business has been closed since before I was born but the building is still there.

I'll explain my reasoning behind the Glock choice. First, it is a choice. Not everyone will follow it. So no biggie. While I like Glocks due to them fitting my hands well and being reliable for me, I am no Glock fanatic. :D

But, since the original poster was asking advice and displayed little background in firearms I thought a Glock (or other modern style firearm) would be a better choice because:

1) Much easier to clean, oil, maintain in general. As you know, stripping a 1911 can be a PITA sometimes depending on how tight tolerances are. Modern weapons take down much easier and require less oil.

2) While I prefer the 1911 for target shooting (much better trigger), and even for carry if size and weight don't matter, for the uninitiated the Glock offers the "revolver" advantage. No manual safeties to confuse the user in stress.

But the reality is whatever is chosen practice and training matter so buy it and use it and understand it intuitively if it is a life or death tool.

Bubba Dawg
09-13-2009, 09:49 AM
A 40 cal glock is a good choice for an auto. I'm a revolver man. I always have a 357 smith with me!

Me too. I thought there was something brilliant about you.

I have a .357 Taurus with a 4 inch barrel. I also have a Taurus .44 Special that is small enough to be concealable in a fanny pack. I have shot the .357 a lot and it is a great gun.

Ammo for any handgun can be hard to get right now, at least around here.

stsinner
09-13-2009, 09:50 AM
I'll explain my reasoning behind the Glock choice. First, it is a choice. Not everyone will follow it. So no biggie. While I like Glocks due to them fitting my hands well and being reliable for me, I am no Glock fanatic. :D

But, since the original poster was asking advice and displayed little background in firearms I thought a Glock (or other modern style firearm) would be a better choice because:

1) Much easier to clean, oil, maintain in general. As you know, stripping a 1911 can be a PITA sometimes depending on how tight tolerances are. Modern weapons take down much easier and require less oil.

2) While I prefer the 1911 for target shooting (much better trigger), and even for carry if size and weight don't matter, for the uninitiated the Glock offers the "revolver" advantage. No manual safeties to confuse the user in stress.

But the reality is whatever is chosen practice and training matter so buy it and use it and understand it intuitively if it is a life or death tool.

Thanks for your advice.. I like the Glocks, too. Just to be clear, I don't read gun magazines or study calibers and such, but I did spend 8 years in the Army, shooting expert with the M16 and the .45. I've shot many types of weapons, including the FAMAS assult rifle, uzi, M60, .50 cal, etc.. I owned a Glock 19 for 4 years, but had to sell it when I moved from Arizona to MA due to the strict gun control laws in MA and the permitting process. I am now a licensed carrier in MA and own a couple of pistols and rifles that I got from my neighbor when her husband died. I'm not a hunter, so I haven't even bought ammo for the rifles or fired them. They're hunting rifles, and I don't think that would be a good choice for home protection.

I have a .45 Ruger and a M&P 9mm, but both have proven nearly impossible to find ammo for at my local Wal Mart and the one local gun shop.

My question was more aimed at this point in time where ammo is expensive and hard to get, and I've got a few hundred dollars to spend on a new gun. I'm not an ammo hoarder, and I haven't been keeping up with what's available or what it now costs.. I want a gun that I can actually get ammo for without breaking the bank.. I want a gun that I can take to the range and practice often without getting a home equity loan to pay for it! That's where I was calling on the wisdom of the board gun nuts...

Bubba Dawg
09-13-2009, 09:54 AM
I have seen in magazines a conversion that fits into a model 1911 Colt to allow it in the .45 Colt ACP caliber to shoot .22 ammo. It looks like a barrel insert and a special clip.

If you'd like to have the capability to practice with .22 ammo and yet still have the feel of the gun you shoot for self-defense, that might be an option. Seem like it didn't cost that much.

I've fired a Colt 1911 .45 and it really is a sweet handling gun.

BadCat
09-13-2009, 09:58 AM
I'm gonna tell you to get a .38/.357 REVOLVER.

If you do not practice with an automatic, you can die.

I don't mean practicing shooting the thing, I mean practicing malfunction clearances and reloads, and practicing them A LOT.

I carry a Glock 23C and a Glock 27 in .40 S&W, but I've been to intensive training courses using those pistols, and I practice what they taught me. If you need to pull an auto on someone, and you pull the trigger an it goes "*click*", you better know damn fast what to do.

If you're willing to put in the practice, by all means, I recommend getting a Glock.

If you want a DEPENDABLE self defense firearm, the .38/.357 revolver is the way to go.

If it's loaded, it will go *BANG* when you pull the trigger.

gator
09-13-2009, 10:05 AM
A pistol is really not a very good weapon to have.

Most people can't hit anything with a pistol beyond about 10 feet. A pistol is a very close quarter weapon, like somebody being right up on you.

It takes a lot of practice and discipline to use a pistol effectively. It takes even more training to use it effectively while under stress or being scared.

For home defense a short barrel shotgun is a much better choice.

Bubba Dawg
09-13-2009, 10:05 AM
That very true about clearing malfunctions in an automatic, BC.

I have a Model 92 Beretta and with most ammo I've fired in it it is very reliable, but it does malfunction, and if it malfunctions when you are in a gunfight, then you'd better know how to clear the malfunction and keep shooting.

Two dictums I remember, and I can't remember who said either one:

*What you do in practice is what you will do under stress.

*When you need a gun, you tend to need it rather badly.

Rockntractor
09-13-2009, 10:14 AM
I'm gonna tell you to get a .38/.357 REVOLVER.

If you do not practice with an automatic, you can die.

I don't mean practicing shooting the thing, I mean practicing malfunction clearances and reloads, and practicing them A LOT.

I carry a Glock 23C and a Glock 27 in .40 S&W, but I've been to intensive training courses using those pistols, and I practice what they taught me. If you need to pull an auto on someone, and you pull the trigger an it goes "*click*", you better know damn fast what to do.

If you're willing to put in the practice, by all means, I recommend getting a Glock.

If you want a DEPENDABLE self defense firearm, the .38/.357 revolver is the way to go.

If it's loaded, it will go *BANG* when you pull the trigger.
I prefer the double action due to ease of loading!

BadCat
09-13-2009, 10:16 AM
A pistol is really not a very good weapon to have.

Most people can't hit anything with a pistol beyond about 10 feet. A pistol is a very close quarter weapon, like somebody being right up on you.

It takes a lot of practice and discipline to use a pistol effectively. It takes even more training to use it effectively while under stress or being scared.

For home defense a short barrel shotgun is a much better choice.

I agree on the shotgun. Best home defense weapon in the world.

Remington 870 Tacticals are very reliable, and can be had for around $400.

Nothing says "Hi there" like a round of 00 buck.

Bubba Dawg
09-13-2009, 11:47 AM
A pistol is really not a very good weapon to have.

Most people can't hit anything with a pistol beyond about 10 feet. A pistol is a very close quarter weapon, like somebody being right up on you.

It takes a lot of practice and discipline to use a pistol effectively. It takes even more training to use it effectively while under stress or being scared.

For home defense a short barrel shotgun is a much better choice.

For home defense I like a shotgun too.

I also like to have a firearm with me when I'm out and about so a handgun fits the bill for that. In the heat of summer I'll carry it in a fanny pack or....a....murse. :o

Anyway, as you said, practice is absolutely essential to be proficient with a handgun. I'm teaching a friend to shoot. We started with a single action 22 revolver. Then 38/357. Haven't even tried the autoloader yet. Crawl. Walk. Run.

Rockntractor
09-13-2009, 11:49 AM
For home defense I like a shotgun too.

I also like to have a firearm with me when I'm out and about so a handgun fits the bill for that. In the heat of summer I'll carry it in a fanny pack or....a....murse. :o

Anyway, as you said, practice is absolutely essential to be proficient with a handgun. I'm teaching a friend to shoot. We started with a single action 22 revolver. Then 38/357. Haven't even tried the autoloader yet. Crawl. Walk. Run.
I hate to have to pick all the shot out of the meat!

BadCat
09-13-2009, 11:52 AM
I hate to have to pick all the shot out of the meat!

There are only 9 pellets in a standard 00 buck load.
Besides, the coroner has to do it, not you.

Bubba Dawg
09-13-2009, 11:55 AM
I hate to have to pick all the shot out of the meat!

Do you eat perpetrators or just want to get your lead back?

BadCat
09-13-2009, 11:59 AM
Do you eat perpetrators or just want to get your lead back?

My house is guarded by a Benelli M4.

I have one of these little things on it...

http://www.dillonprecision.com/uimages/missing_images/14772_3_gun_gear_slide_lock_2_pack_m.jpg

It's on the receiver, right in front of the ejection port.

It has two rifled slugs in it, you know, in case they try to run.

Rockntractor
09-13-2009, 12:04 PM
Do you eat perpetrators or just want to get your lead back?
The older ones are to dang tough but I do cast a lot of bullets!

BadCat
09-13-2009, 12:15 PM
The older ones are to dang tough but I do cast a lot of bullets!

Since you have an affinity for rather large amounts of lead, I doubt there's ever much to clean.

Rockntractor
09-13-2009, 12:18 PM
Since you have an affinity for rather large amounts of lead, I doubt there's ever much to clean.

I have sufficient quantities of every component I need. I saw the writing on the wall last September and stocked up.

BadCat
09-13-2009, 12:22 PM
I have sufficient quantities of every component I need. I saw the writing on the wall last September and stocked up.

I "probably" do too, but I never THINK I have enough.

I have around 70 WW2 German Mausers, I have 5 cases (1080 rounds each) of 8mm, unopened. I'm thinking I need more.

Rockntractor
09-13-2009, 12:26 PM
I "probably" do too, but I never THINK I have enough.

I have around 70 WW2 German Mausers, I have 5 cases (1080 rounds each) of 8mm, unopened. I'm thinking I need more.

I about killed me trading guns for that mini loader but I had 2400.00 in the guns and the loader had a low book used value of 12000.00

Bubba Dawg
09-13-2009, 12:44 PM
My house is guarded by a Benelli M4.

I have one of these little things on it...

http://www.dillonprecision.com/uimages/missing_images/14772_3_gun_gear_slide_lock_2_pack_m.jpg

It's on the receiver, right in front of the ejection port.

It has two rifled slugs in it, you know, in case they try to run.

I have a Mossburg 12 gauge loaded with 00 Buck. I keep a couple of slugs handy in case there is a problem with a bear. That do-hickey is a a nice way to have 'em on the shotgun itself. I've seen the ones where extra rounds are in the stock but didn't really like that.

Who makes it? Do you have to get the receiver drilled to hold it?

asdf2231
09-13-2009, 01:23 PM
I have a Mossburg 12 gauge loaded with 00 Buck. I keep a couple of slugs handy in case there is a problem with a bear. That do-hickey is a a nice way to have 'em on the shotgun itself. I've seen the ones where extra rounds are in the stock but didn't really like that.

Who makes it? Do you have to get the receiver drilled to hold it?

Looks like Velcro there Bubba. :p

Bubba Dawg
09-13-2009, 01:30 PM
Looks like Velcro there Bubba. :p

Wot is dis velcro of which you speak? :confused:

Yeah, I got to thinking about drilling the receiver and went no. :D

djones520
09-13-2009, 01:30 PM
Looks like Velcro there Bubba. :p

Hey now, velcro is like rocket science to some.

Rockntractor
09-13-2009, 01:31 PM
Looks like Velcro there Bubba. :p

He could glue a piece of Velcro to the top of his head and store anything he wants up there!

Bubba Dawg
09-13-2009, 01:38 PM
Hey now, velcro is like rocket science to some.

Wish I had invented velcro.

Bubba Dawg
09-13-2009, 01:39 PM
He could glue a piece of Velcro to the top of his head and store anything he wants up there!

Tried that. The scraaaaak peeling away sound really gets to you after a while.

asdf2231
09-13-2009, 01:48 PM
Wot is dis velcro of which you speak? :confused:

Yeah, I got to thinking about drilling the receiver and went no. :D

Mine looks like this:

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l307/asdf2231/Guns/DSCF3938.jpg

That shell holder on the side of the reciever is called a "Side Saddle" and it holds 6 extra shells and is held in place by a pin that replaces the takedown pin on the weapon. No muss no fuss no drilling.

About 30$ plus shipping if you order them online.

Speedy
09-13-2009, 02:01 PM
One thing that can't be made clear enough about home defense is that you can't hesitate. If you are in the slightest perturbed by shooting someone, don't even try. Know this, in the time it takes you to aim and fire, a borglar or assailant can cross a room. Add in some hesitation and your gun is his and you are dead.

SarasotaRepub
09-13-2009, 04:19 PM
I have a 6 inch barrel Ruger Security Six in .357 Mag.

My little hand cannon as gator would atest to. :D

Good, solid hand gun and accurate.

stsinner
09-13-2009, 05:08 PM
I have seen in magazines a conversion that fits into a model 1911 Colt to allow it in the .45 Colt ACP caliber to shoot .22 ammo. It looks like a barrel insert and a special clip.

If you'd like to have the capability to practice with .22 ammo and yet still have the feel of the gun you shoot for self-defense, that might be an option. Seem like it didn't cost that much.

I've fired a Colt 1911 .45 and it really is a sweet handling gun.

That's a great idea. We did that in the Army with the AT4 during training due to the cost of the AT4 rounds. We shot .45 tracer rounds out of it with a special retrofit. I'll look into that because .22 ammo still seems readily available and is very cheap at my local Wal Mart.. That, along with shotgun shells, is one of the only things that is consistently available.

Teetop
09-13-2009, 06:29 PM
That's a great idea. We did that in the Army with the AT4 during training due to the cost of the AT4 rounds. We shot .45 tracer rounds out of it with a special retrofit. I'll look into that because .22 ammo still seems readily available and is very cheap at my local Wal Mart.. That, along with shotgun shells, is one of the only things that is consistently available.

If you're going .22, go .22 mag. You could probably get a rifle and handgun for $600. (Both, .22mag.)

$11 something a box at wally-world. I get 150 rounds for under $35, weekly.

expat-pattaya
09-13-2009, 07:19 PM
Thanks for your advice.. I like the Glocks, too. Just to be clear, I don't read gun magazines or study calibers and such, but I did spend 8 years in the Army, shooting expert with the M16 and the .45. I've shot many types of weapons, including the FAMAS assult rifle, uzi, M60, .50 cal, etc.. I owned a Glock 19 for 4 years, but had to sell it when I moved from Arizona to MA due to the strict gun control laws in MA and the permitting process. I am now a licensed carrier in MA and own a couple of pistols and rifles that I got from my neighbor when her husband died. I'm not a hunter, so I haven't even bought ammo for the rifles or fired them. They're hunting rifles, and I don't think that would be a good choice for home protection.

I have a .45 Ruger and a M&P 9mm, but both have proven nearly impossible to find ammo for at my local Wal Mart and the one local gun shop.

My question was more aimed at this point in time where ammo is expensive and hard to get, and I've got a few hundred dollars to spend on a new gun. I'm not an ammo hoarder, and I haven't been keeping up with what's available or what it now costs.. I want a gun that I can actually get ammo for without breaking the bank.. I want a gun that I can take to the range and practice often without getting a home equity loan to pay for it! That's where I was calling on the wisdom of the board gun nuts...


Ahh, so not a newbie. OK. Hey, if .45 and 9mm is in short supply times SUCK. Those are the two basic rounds. I didn't realize it was that tough. I buy 9mm in bulk (like 20,000 rounds of it a few years back) and reload .45 so I didn't know.

If ya can't find them I don't know what you can find. I guess .22. I don't like it as a defense round but I do like shooting them. I got the wife a Ruger 10/22 that I tricked out with scope and better innards and a suppressor that I like shooting.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-5/1007615/DSC00298.jpg

I guess the answer to what you should get will be what you CAN get and what you can feed in MA. Must suck to live in such a liberal state (and near the Red Sox) Not to be snide but glad I don't have to make those limited choices. cc:D

Speedy
09-13-2009, 07:58 PM
I buy 9mm in bulk (like 20,000 rounds of it a few years back) and reload .45 so I didn't know. cc:D


I have got thousands of rounds for almost eveyone of my pieces. Before I had my gun rights restored my dad kept all of my weapons. The most coveted among these was my Dragunov Sniper Rifle. I really have no idea how much ammo I have, I just know that there are ammo cans stacked high in a locker in my mom's basement.

expat-pattaya
09-14-2009, 03:25 AM
I have got thousands of rounds for almost eveyone of my pieces. Before I had my gun rights restored my dad kept all of my weapons. The most coveted among these was my Dragunov Sniper Rifle. I really have no idea how much ammo I have, I just know that there are ammo cans stacked high in a locker in my mom's basement.

One can never be too rich, too thin, or have too much ammo :D

ampdead
09-14-2009, 04:11 AM
Aiming solely for the head is not a way to defend yourself. Smaller target, less to hit. A heavier caliber to the chest will drop someone just as easily, and it's much easier to hit. If you're forced to shoot a hopped up PCP head in the chest with a .22 your just going to piss him off even more.

Without having read the rest of this thread - as I was determined to do, and probably should still do - my father, the former mid-early 70's Detroit cop, suggested a shotgun with double-odd buckshot for the simple fact that anyone untrained in such a life-or-death situation will, simply, not possess the ability to properly aim and fire a gun that requires proper aiming.

Sure, the shotgun might blow your arm off - as a colloquialism - or fracture your jaw (if you're using it properly without sufficient strength to control it - actually happened, and rather messily), but it'll damn well, by noise alone, cause a perp to at least rethink his motivations.

All this pondering about "stopping power" is rather absurd to me. All one really should desire in a firearm is a set of teeth that reduces ones potentiality for being a victim to nil - or, perhaps, better: Tilt the risk/reward calculation in favor of the potential victim (as for instance, Florida's carry laws have shown). You don't have to be a badass, Dirty Harry to fend off some perp. All you need is a sufficient argument against being a potential victim. And, yes, Dirty Harry is radical overkill.

Not saying that doesn't work, however. I'm just saying that, well, if you're going to carry, you had goddamned better know what you're doing - including potentially taking someone's life (which, no, sorry - no matter how much bravado you may display - no one is ever actually ready for).

Get yourself a shotgun, and pray you never need it.

Speedy
09-14-2009, 04:45 AM
In a home defense scenario, even Double 00 is overkill. You will not be any further than 10-12 feet away from your target so the shot pattern will be not be too spread out

ampdead
09-14-2009, 05:51 AM
In a home defense scenario, even Double 00 is overkill. You will not be any further than 10-12 feet away from your target so the shot pattern will be not be too spread out

I don't disagree; however, my guess on the advice was based, simply, on sound and potential damage profile - i.e. a bunch of 9 mm's (or their equivalent) going off all at once - or being fired one-by-one by someone with no notion, whatsoever, of aiming in an actual life or death scenario, and doing so with the intrinsic knowledge of taking another's life*.

*Again, it isn't about killing a potential perp. Most normal people have no concept of that - no matter their braggadocio. You go and claim how awesome you are to an actual soldier, and he (or she) will put you down on the spot or simply walk away from you in utter disgust.

This is about a civilian's potentiality of tilting the risk/reward calculation in their favor. Without having fired anything in anger or, even, basic self preservation, even.

Again, most people simply are not wired to accept the possibility of killing someone else (or, even, differentiating between "kill" and "murder").

Ya'll ain't shit. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qYrgdrIVxw)

FlaGator
09-14-2009, 06:29 AM
I go with .45s for home defense

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b26/flagator/tm.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b26/flagator/1873_cattleman_nm_brass.jpg

ampdead
09-14-2009, 06:39 AM
Also, somewhere in the Good Book, it says something along the lines of: Don't be a bragging Bitch. I'm using my own wording, of course. But, hey, I could have been James(on) in another life. Or whatever.

Your gun is shit, by the way.

Sonnabend
09-14-2009, 07:25 AM
Most of the people here are soldiers or vets.

Footbullet :rolleyes:

ampdead
09-14-2009, 07:56 AM
Most of the people here are soldiers or vets.

Footbullet :rolleyes:

So, how does that take away from my point that most people are not soldiers?

Edit: Here, this is where (http://www.gleamingedge.com/mirrors/onsheepwolvesandsheepdogs.html) I am coming from. Sheep, sheepdogs, and wolves. There was no sleight to our (well, my, for one) protectors. Merely a sleight to those who would pretend to be something they are not.

Owning a weapon without ever actually using it (i.e. something more than target practice) is not the same as using said weapon in an actual confrontation.

Sonnabend
09-14-2009, 08:07 AM
Owning a weapon without ever actually using it (i.e. something more than target practice) is not the same as using said weapon in an actual confrontation.The idea of a weapon is not to have to use it

Deterrence.

One will think twice on robbing a shop when he reads in the paper that the last SOB that tried it, had a shotgun shoved in his face. One will take up honest work when he thinks to rob someone and stops dead at the sight of an openly carried Glock.

Trying to rob an armed man, is usually the last thing one does in this life.

ampdead
09-14-2009, 08:15 AM
The idea of a weapon is not to have to use it

Deterrence.

One will think twice on robbing a shop when he reads in the paper that the last SOB that tried it, had a shotgun shoved in his face. One will take up honest work when he thinks to rob someone and stops dead at the sight of an openly carried Glock.

Trying to rob an armed man, is usually the last thing one does in this life.

I've previously had this conversation. I had taken your stance. I was proven wrong.

Weapons are not a deterrence in this sense: You don't pull out a gun in order scare someone. You pull a gun in order to shoot someone. And you shoot to kill. If you aren't prepared to do that, you have no business carrying.

stsinner
09-14-2009, 08:28 AM
Owning a weapon without ever actually using it (i.e. something more than target practice) is not the same as using said weapon in an actual confrontation.


Lots of talk about locking up and choking when the shot counts, but that's not the question of the thread or a concern.. Like the commercials the Army used to run said regarding job interviews post-Army, "When they ask you if you can perform under pressure, try not to laugh.."

When you're no stranger to a gun, and when you know exactly how it's going to function, all that's left is putting into practice what you know.. What I know is the layout of my house and where my guns are, also where the light switches are.

As someone whose had an intruder in my house, I can tell you that I'm not worried about cracking under pressure.. About a week after we bought our house I was awakened by a door closing at just after 2 in the morning.. I grabbed my crossbow (I wasn't yet a licensed carrier in MA), and I crept toward the back of the house.. There was a man standing in my kitchen actually drinking a glass of water. The light from the motion activated light outside shining in the kitchen window made it impossible for him to see into the dining room where I was coming from because he was facing the large window overlooking the driveway where the light was coming from , and I was coming from his right side through a doorway..
I aimed my crossbow at his chest from about 6 feet and flipped on the light switch. I had every intention of putting him down if he had any bad intentions, but it turned out that he was friend of the man's son who previously owned the house we had just bought, and he had previously had permission to crash at their house (my house now). I wasn't the least bit scared-I was pissed that he was potentially endangering my family, and I was very clear headed and focused... I sent him on his drunken way without calling the police because his story made sense, and he named all of the family members of the family we purchased the house from and told us who slept where and where he usually crashed. He did no damage coming in, as we don't usually lock our back door, so no harm, no foul..

ampdead
09-14-2009, 08:38 AM
Right, then. So, based on all of this anecdotal evidence, there is clearly no potential downside to anything.

You're taking my critiques a bit too personally. None of what I have written in this thread (or any other, ever) has anything to do with any single person. You can offer all the anecdotal evidence you wish (so could I, oddly enough), to what point? To congratulate ourselves?

Well done, self. Well done.

Edit: Ok, though, I'll quit this thread.

stsinner
09-14-2009, 09:18 AM
Right, then. So, based on all of this anecdotal evidence, there is clearly no potential downside to anything.

You're taking my critiques a bit too personally. None of what I have written in this thread (or any other, ever) has anything to do with any single person. You can offer all the anecdotal evidence you wish (so could I, oddly enough), to what point? To congratulate ourselves?

Well done, self. Well done.

Edit: Ok, though, I'll quit this thread.

Look, clown, I started the thread, and the advice I was looking for isn't, "Don't get a gun if you don't intend to use it.. " I'm a big boy now, and we're talking about big boy things, not European anti-gun sissified pussing out when someone breaks into your home..

ampdead
09-14-2009, 09:21 AM
Look, clown, I started the thread, and the advice I was looking for isn't, "Don't get a gun if you don't intend to use it.. " I'm a big boy now, and we're talking about big boy things, not European anti-gun sissified pussing out when someone breaks into your home..

Ok...?

Edit: Really, though, is this actually Big Boy behavior? Whining like a little girl over some contemptible - apparently, Euroland-lover - who has somehow pulled out his (or her) gigantic interwebz ballz to make a rather, as you seem to want to portray, inane comment about dumbfucks with guns?

Gotcha, man. Lesson learned, as they say.

And don't bother, I've banned myself from this bastion of, um, conservative thought - such as it is.

stsinner
09-14-2009, 09:29 AM
Ok...?

Edit: Really, though, is this actually Big Boy behavior? Whining like a little girl over some contemptible - apparently, Euroland-lover - who has somehow pulled out his (or her) gigantic interwebz ballz to make a rather, as you seem to want to portray, inane comment about dumbfucks with guns?

Gotcha, man. Lesson learned, as they say.

And don't bother, I've banned myself from this bastion of, um, conservative thought - such as it is.

And previously:




Edit: Ok, though, I'll quit this thread.

And now your integrity is in question.

Sonnabend
09-14-2009, 09:32 AM
I've previously had this conversation. I had taken your stance. I was proven wrong.

Yeah? I live in a nation with nanny state gun laws. The criminals are armed to the fucking teeth. They have one, I WANT ONE.


Weapons are not a deterrence in this sense: You don't pull out a gun in order scare someone.

WRONG.


You pull a gun in order to shoot someone. And you shoot to kill. If you aren't prepared to do that, you have no business carrying.

Wrong again.

gator
09-14-2009, 03:03 PM
Most of the people here are soldiers or vets.

Footbullet :rolleyes:

Except you. You are the coward that never served.

FreeAmerican
09-14-2009, 03:32 PM
I used to have a .40 cal SIG, great gun but as previously stated ammo was hard to find. I have a 9mm Springfield XD now, it too is a great gun. I will be getting a .38 or a smaller version of my XD for concealed carry soon.

gator
09-14-2009, 03:35 PM
Yeah? I live in a nation with nanny state gun laws. The criminals are armed to the fucking teeth. They have one, I WANT ONE.



WRONG.



Wrong again.

Why don't you admit that you once spend several pages of a thread on CU defending your country's anti gun laws.

You do remember that, don't you?

Do you remember the pussy names I called you for your position?

asdf2231
09-14-2009, 03:46 PM
Gator STFU or take it to the dome. Seriously.