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The Night Owl
09-13-2009, 05:54 PM
Let's try this again. Shall we?


Turing gets posthumous apology
11 september, 2009 - 17:04 GMT

Some argue that Alan Turing was as important as Winston Churchill in helping Britain defeat Nazi Germany in World War II.

Alan Turing was a computer genius who played a central role in successful British efforts to break Enigma, the German high command's codes.

However, he was not rewarded with honours by the state, or public adulation.

Instead he was persecuted because of his homosexuality, opting for chemical castration rather than imprisonment after conviction for gross indecency.

...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/news/2009/09/090911_turing_page_nh_sl.shtml

Bubba Dawg
09-13-2009, 06:01 PM
Let's try this again. Shall we?



http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/news/2009/09/090911_turing_page_nh_sl.shtml

I had never heard of Turing but it is sad that his role in breaking Enigma went unheralded. To me, it does not matter a whit if a code breaker, or translator, if a homosexual, as long as they are loyal to their nation and do a good job.

Respect to Mr. Turing for his work on Enigma.

CueSi
09-13-2009, 09:43 PM
Yeah, it was very much overdue, but at least Turing gets something out of it. :(

~QC

PoliCon
09-13-2009, 09:57 PM
They conveniently leave out what exactly he did to get charged with gross indeceny . . . . For all we know he could have buggered a little boy . . .

asdf2231
09-13-2009, 10:12 PM
They conveniently leave out what exactly he did to get charged with gross indeceny . . . . For all we know he could have buggered a little boy . . .

Not at all!

The kid he tried to bugger was in fact 19.

The Night Owl
09-13-2009, 10:48 PM
They conveniently leave out what exactly he did to get charged with gross indeceny . . . . For all we know he could have buggered a little boy . . .

It's difficult to imagine a more disgraceful display than a citizen of a nation Alan Turing helped to preserve smearing him on a medium he helped to create.

Alan Turing was a hero. The very least you could do is learn about him before speaking about him.

asdf2231
09-13-2009, 10:53 PM
It's difficult to imagine a more disgraceful display than a citizen of a nation Alan Turing helped to preserve smearing him on a medium he helped to create.

Alan Turing was a hero. The very least you could do is learn about him before speaking about him.

He was a convicted criminal sentenced under the guidelines of the times.

You guys on the left always seem to dredge up sympathy in yourselves when it comes to sex criminals doncha?

The Night Owl
09-13-2009, 11:08 PM
He was a convicted criminal sentenced under the guidelines of the times.



Alan Turning was a convicted of sex crimes according to the barbaric laws of his time. Those laws deserve our rebuke. Turing deserves our respect.

One can only wonder how much more Turing would have to have done to earn your respect... which isn't to say that's something worth earning.

wilbur
09-13-2009, 11:12 PM
Im not even sure asdf passes the Turing test.

The Night Owl
09-13-2009, 11:18 PM
Im not even sure asdf passes the Turing test.

LOL!

djones520
09-13-2009, 11:58 PM
He was a convicted criminal sentenced under the guidelines of the times.

You guys on the left always seem to dredge up sympathy in yourselves when it comes to sex criminals doncha?

So we shouldn't lament the people legally killed during the Salem Witch Trials? It was the law of the time? :rolleyes:

Pretty weak argument there ASDF. Especially after you bring up that it was done to an adult, not a child. Chemical castration for having consensual sex with another adult human is barbaric, no matter when it was done.

wilbur
09-14-2009, 12:11 AM
So we shouldn't lament the people legally killed during the Salem Witch Trials? It was the law of the time? :rolleyes:


I guess we should only lament if they weren't real witches. Otherwise, they got what they deserved... according to the laws of the time.

megimoo
09-14-2009, 12:26 AM
Who's up next Harvey Milk ?

djones520
09-14-2009, 12:32 AM
Who's up next Harvey Milk ?

Anyone else wanna make stupid comments tonight? :rolleyes:

megimoo
09-14-2009, 12:35 AM
Anyone else wanna make stupid comments tonight? :rolleyes:Are you a fan ?

djones520
09-14-2009, 12:39 AM
Are you a fan ?

This has to do with a man who saved possibly millions of lives, being apologized to for the horrendous way he was treated for his private life.

Then you come in here and try to blow this into "gay pride" bullshit by bringing Harvey Milk into it. Grow the hell up.

wilbur
09-14-2009, 12:42 AM
Not to mention he happens to be greatly responsible for the little tiny, inconsequential field of... computer science....

megimoo
09-14-2009, 12:47 AM
This has to do with a man who saved possibly millions of lives, being apologized to for the horrendous way he was treated for his private life.

Then you come in here and try to blow this into "gay pride" bullshit by bringing Harvey Milk into it. Grow the hell up.
Perhaps you should learn to read between the lines a little Gomez.This is/was gay debate bait bullshit as you call it from the onset !If Einstein was into diddling little kids I would expect some to demand acceptance of his 'petty faults' due to his genius ?

wilbur
09-14-2009, 01:00 AM
Perhaps you should learn to read between the lines a little Gomez.This is/was gay debate bait bullshit as you call it from the onset !If Einstein was into diddling little kids I would expect some to demand acceptance of his 'petty faults' due to his genius ?

"Reading in between the lines" in Megs speak, must mean "making shit up". I think you missed the bit where the partner in the affair was a consenting adult - oh wait, you probably didnt - you just don't care. Gay means pedophile in your poor disfunctional brain, and so far, I see no evidence anything can correct the disfunction. Had it been a 19 year old girl, we'd just say its another guy with a mid-life crisis, trying to be young again.

If the whole story wouldn't be sad enough apart from this man's greatness.... its sad that we all lost out on half a lifetime more of further contributions he could have given to the world.

djones520
09-14-2009, 01:01 AM
Perhaps you should learn to read between the lines a little Gomez.This is/was gay debate bait bullshit as you call it from the onset !If Einstein was into diddling little kids I would expect some to demand acceptance of his 'petty faults' due to his genius ?

As would anyone else. Please care to show where Turning was doing anything wtih little kids though? Last I heard, a 19 year old wasn't a kid. :rolleyes:

Gomez?

The Night Owl
09-14-2009, 01:09 AM
So we shouldn't lament the people legally killed during the Salem Witch Trials? It was the law of the time? :rolleyes:



...or the gays persecuted and/or killed in places like Iran.

megimoo
09-14-2009, 01:26 AM
As would anyone else. Please care to show where Turning was doing anything wtih little kids though? Last I heard, a 19 year old wasn't a kid. :rolleyes:

Gomez?
I guess the question was too much for you .The simple facts are that homosexuality was considered either a mental condition or a severe character malfunction in those days .
lots of English men were either ostracized of incarcerated because of it,Turring was far from unique. Lord Byron, Oscar Wilde were well known for their affliction !

djones520
09-14-2009, 01:29 AM
I guess the question was too much for you .The simple facts are that homosexuality was considered either a mental condition or a severe character malfunction in those days .
lots of English men were either ostracized of incarcerated because of it,Turring was far from unique. Lord Byron, Oscar Wilde were well known for their affliction !

So that gives you warrant to come in here and try to twist the issue into something else? You think it was right what was done to him, simply because people were ignorant back then?

megimoo
09-14-2009, 01:46 AM
So that gives you warrant to come in here and try to twist the issue into something else? You think it was right what was done to him, simply because people were ignorant back then?
Have I offended some some deep feelings ?A simple apt comparison brings such outrage and vitriol ?Last time I posted here personal views and opinion's were allowed, Have you changed the rules ?

djones520
09-14-2009, 01:51 AM
Have I offended some some deep feelings ?A simple apt comparison brings such outrage and vitriol ?Last time I posted here personal views and opinion's were allowed, Have you changed the rules ?

:rolleyes:


Who's up next Harvey Milk ?

Thats a personal opinion?

Why don't you actually offer one up before you whip that out as a defense. You didn't answer the question if you thought it was right the way he was treated. Given that you threw Harvey Milk out there, like these two situations had anything at all in common just leads me to believe that you think it was right. Who gives a damn that a national hero's life was ruined and led to his eventual suicide, because he was gay.

Quite fucking disgusting to me.

bijou
09-14-2009, 02:54 AM
Here's an article with more detail on the part that exercised everyone. Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1212910/How-Britain-drove-greatest-genius-Alan-Turing-suicide--just-gay.html#ixzz0R3q5mfJt


...
In the 1950s, Britain was gripped by a fear of homosexuality. Some of Britain and America's most prized scientists and diplomats, including Klaus Fuchs, Guy Burgess and Donald Maclean, were exposed not only as traitors but as homosexuals.
There was no suggestion that Turing was a spy, but the authorities were suspicious nonetheless. Shortly after his conviction for homosexual behaviour, his security clearance was revoked, and Bletchley Park, where he had helped to win the war, was put out of bounds.

By breaking the German military's secret codes Turing helped the Navy defeat Hitler's U-boats
The irony is that Turing had been haunted throughout his life by his homosexuality, which had been made illegal by the 1885 Criminal Amendment Act - the law that was used to prosecute Oscar Wilde in 1895.
The draconian Section 11 of the Act stated that 'any male person who, in public or private, commits any act of gross indecency with another male person shall be guilty of a misdemeanour, and being convicted thereof shall be liable at the discretion of the court to be imprisoned for any term not exceeding two years, with or without hard labour'.

... Unfortunately, it was in Manchester that Turing's life began to unravel - for it was here, outside a cinema in January 1952, that he met a 19-year-old called Arnold Murray.
He was invited to Turing's modest Victorian home in Wilmslow, Cheshire, several times over the following weeks, spending at least one night there.
But Murray was to betray him. A friend of the young man burgled Turing's house, confident that the mathematician would never press charges for fear of being 'outed' as a homosexual, and well aware that in 1952 more than 1,600 men had been charged under the draconian 1885 Act.
But Murray and his friend misjudged Turing. He not only reported the crime to the police, but also confessed to a sexual relationship with Murray.
And so, in March 1952, he was given the choice of one year's imprisonment, or probation on the condition that he accepted chemical castration. Turing opted for the hormone injections, which took place every week for a year.
... He would still have been breaking the law with a 19 year old boyfriend in 1994 as the age of consent was 21 between 1967 and then,

Sonnabend
09-14-2009, 04:05 AM
Alan Turing was a hero. The very least you could do is learn about him before speaking about him

So was Pres Bush, and he never committed any crime, despite you lefties screaming that he was. The day you retract that sluir, is the day I will maybe think you have any credibility.

Until then, shut the fuck UP. Practise what you preach, jerk.

linda22003
09-14-2009, 08:02 AM
This has to do with a man who saved possibly millions of lives, being apologized to for the horrendous way he was treated for his private life.

Then you come in here and try to blow this into "gay pride" bullshit by bringing Harvey Milk into it. Grow the hell up.

Be patient with Megi. It's not like he could have ever heard of Alan Turing before.

The Night Owl
09-14-2009, 09:34 AM
So was Pres Bush, and he never committed any crime, despite you lefties screaming that he was. The day you retract that sluir, is the day I will maybe think you have any credibility.

Until then, shut the fuck UP. Practise what you preach, jerk.

You want me to retract something I never said? Is that some sort of weird Australian custom?

CueSi
09-14-2009, 09:35 AM
Be patient with Megi. It's not like he could have ever heard of Alan Turing before.

Jesus... instantly we go to the dumb thing about this guy. *facepalm* Either way, lemme rifle through this thread for the homophobia.

~QC

Sonnabend
09-14-2009, 09:35 AM
You want me to retract something I never said? Is that some sort of weird Australian custom?

You and your ilk started and fostered BDS.

As far as Aussie customs go, were you as rude in person as you are here, the usual custom here is to be thrown out the door.

The Night Owl
09-14-2009, 09:36 AM
Here's an article with more detail on the part that exercised everyone. Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1212910/How-Britain-drove-greatest-genius-Alan-Turing-suicide--just-gay.html#ixzz0R3q5mfJt

He would still have been braking the law with a 19 year old boyfriend in 1994 as the age of consent was 21 between 1967 and then,

Right, I'm sure that thousands of British males were castrated for having sexual relations with 19 year old girls.

:rolleyes:

CueSi
09-14-2009, 09:39 AM
Right, I'm sure that thousands of British males were castrated for having sexual relations with 19 year old girls.

:rolleyes:

Maybe they opted for the year in prison, TNO?

~QC

The Night Owl
09-14-2009, 09:41 AM
You and your ilk started and fostered BDS.

As far as Aussie customs go, were you as rude in person as you are here, the usual custom here is to be thrown out the door.

Do you have anything to say about Alan Turing or am I a more interesting subject for you?

The Night Owl
09-14-2009, 10:10 AM
Maybe they opted for the year in prison, TNO?

~QC

I severly doubt that British adult males in Alan Turing's time were jailed for having consensual sexual relations with 19 year old girls.

Anyway, this stuff about age of consent is irrelevant to the case of Alan Turing because he was convicted under Section 11 of the Criminal Amendment Act, a law which was not age specific.

wilbur
09-14-2009, 10:12 AM
I severly doubt that British adult males in Alan Turing's time were jailed for having consensual sexual relations with 19 year old girls.

Anyway, this stuff about age of consent is irrelevant to the case of Alan Turing because he was convicted under Section 8 of the Criminal Amendment Act, a law which was not age specific.

Aye, he was convicted for having a homosexual relations.... the age of the person involved was irrelevant to this charge.

The Night Owl
09-14-2009, 10:19 AM
Aye, he was convicted for having a homosexual relations.... the age of the person involved was irrelevant to this charge.

...and the punishment continues to this day.

It's really kind of infuriating. I mean, I know people will never agree on whether homosexuality is right or wrong but at the very least they should be able to agree that no one should be persecuted for it.

bijou
09-14-2009, 01:17 PM
Right, I'm sure that thousands of British males were castrated for having sexual relations with 19 year old girls.

:rolleyes:

Having sex with a 19 year old girl wasn't illegal. Committing an act of gross indecency with a male of any age was. I am not saying that I support that law or that Alan Turing doesn't deserve some posthumous recognition/rehabilitation of his reputation. But the fact remains, he broke the law of the time, he was convicted and rather than go to prison he chose to undergo a new and experimental chemical castration procedure. Comparing that to the lack of random chemical castration of law abiding citizens makes no sense.

noonwitch
09-14-2009, 01:29 PM
So we shouldn't lament the people legally killed during the Salem Witch Trials? It was the law of the time? :rolleyes:

Pretty weak argument there ASDF. Especially after you bring up that it was done to an adult, not a child. Chemical castration for having consensual sex with another adult human is barbaric, no matter when it was done.



I think the city of Salem does a tribute to the alleged witches killed during the Witch Trials. They have a memorial at the site of the gallows. Every wiccan and ex-wiccan knows that.

wilbur
09-14-2009, 01:40 PM
Having sex with a 19 year old girl wasn't illegal. Committing an act of gross indecency with a male of any age was. I am not saying that I support that law or that Alan Turing doesn't deserve some posthumous recognition/rehabilitation of his reputation. But the fact remains, he broke the law of the time, he was convicted and rather than go to prison he chose to undergo a new and experimental chemical castration procedure. Comparing that to the lack of random chemical castration of law abiding citizens makes no sense.

I don't think anyone here is denying he broke the law of the time... the whole point of the apology was that the law was itself "grossly indecent" and quite a textbook example of injustice, and persecution - and that this grossly indecent law was a major contributing factor in the early demise of one of the worlds greatest minds - a mind belonging to a person who is easily near the top of the list of the most significant people to exist, in the twentieth century.

So I just gotta ask, what the heck is your point?

bijou
09-14-2009, 02:01 PM
I don't think anyone here is denying he broke the law of the time... the whole point of the apology was that the law was itself "grossly indecent" and quite a textbook example of injustice, and persecution - and that this grossly indecent law was a major contributing factor in the early demise of one of the worlds greatest minds - a mind belonging to a person who is easily near the top of the list of the most significant people to exist, in the twentieth century.

So I just gotta ask, what the heck is your point?

I was responding to the comment
Right, I'm sure that thousands of British males were castrated for having sexual relations with 19 year old girls.


There would have been no reason to chemically castrate them as they were not doing anything illegal. The story of Alan Turing's later life is a sad one and I am sure this law affected many other men, whose names and stories we will never know, in similar ways. That is part of what led to the 1967 Act being passed and then it's subsequent revisions to eventually equalize the age of consent.

Shannon
09-14-2009, 10:50 PM
Well, I guess we know who the board fags are now.:p

megimoo
09-14-2009, 10:52 PM
Well, I guess we know who the board fags are now.:pWe always suspected them !