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View Full Version : Atlas Shrugs: Doctors ‘Going Galt’



patriot45
10-14-2009, 01:18 PM
Oh those pesky unintended consequences! (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=33937)




The headline in Investor’s Business Daily, Sept. 16, 2009: “45% of Doctors Would Consider Quitting If Congress Passes Health Care Overhaul.”

The headline in the Boston Globe, Sept. 28, 2009: “States risk it, raise tax on rich.”

The problem with four of nine U.S. doctors saying they “would consider leaving their practice or taking an early retirement” is that “the number of doctors is already lagging population growth,” reports IBD.

Add millions of new patients to a shrinking supply of doctors and the obvious result is an English-style queue, longer waits in pain, and a centrally directed rationing of service.

That Boston Globe article on soaking the rich explains that New York’s increased confiscation of income from the “deep-pocketed rich” through higher taxes is producing a “millionaires’ exit.”

Said New York’s lieutenant governor, Richard Ravitch, regarding the flight of the state’s millionaires and the decline in government revenues that has already occurred as a result of the higher tax rates: “People aren’t wedded to a geographic place as they once were.”

In Atlas Shrugged, a novel by Ayn Rand, the most productive and creative citizens in the United States -- the innovators, risk-takers, artists, entrepreneurs, capitalists, intellectuals, industrialists -- overturn the conventional concept of victimhood and go on strike, refusing any longer to be exploited by society, refusing to be demonized as too successful, too rich, too individualistic, too free.

Led by John Galt, the novel’s hero, the industrious organize a strike against the ever-expanding yoke of government coercion. They strike to halt the murder of man’s spirit, to halt the confiscation of man’s work, to defend individualism, reason, liberty, human achievement and the market economy.

Rockntractor
10-14-2009, 01:55 PM
All of us need to go "Galt" before it is to late.

expat-pattaya
10-14-2009, 03:03 PM
Done.

Elspeth
10-14-2009, 05:11 PM
Thanks for adding to my original doomsday scenario. :(

High costs
Federal bureacracy
Complete lack of privacy
Lack of doctors???

Nubs
10-14-2009, 05:32 PM
Here in Michigan, they want to tax doctors an additional 3% just for being doctors.

FlaGator
10-14-2009, 05:38 PM
Here in Michigan, they want to tax doctors an additional 3% just for being doctors.
Do they get a deduction if they perform abortions?

ErikNikolai
10-14-2009, 07:29 PM
I encourage you to look into and support The Free Enterprise Nation (http://www.thefreeenterprisenation.org/), a nationwide organization of capitalist businessmen.

The Free Enterprise Nation was formed to provide education, unification, and advocacy for the cause of free enterprise in America. It is the first national membership organization created specifically to unite, and to advance the broad economic interests of, businesses and workers in the private sector. The Free Enterprise Nation does not support any political party, or the platform of any political party. It focuses exclusively on issues related to the economic interests of our members.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NL5DtMMHS0

ExLiberal
10-14-2009, 09:20 PM
What does being a doctor have to do with objectivism? Aren't doctors sacrificing "the virtue of selfishness" to dedicate their lives to the service and benefits of others?

patriot45
10-14-2009, 09:24 PM
When we hit the tipping point, and I think we are just about there, there will be more moochers than productive people. Then what happens? I think I would rather stop producing for the moochers and see what they would do then!!!

This would probably be the best revolution, every one who is a producer, stop paying taxes all at once!
Can they jail us all? Who will pay to keep us in jail? It might be the thing to do!

ExLiberal
10-14-2009, 09:43 PM
When we hit the tipping point, and I think we are just about there, there will be more moochers than productive people. Then what happens? I think I would rather stop producing for the moochers and see what they would do then!!!

This would probably be the best revolution, every one who is a producer, stop paying taxes all at once!
Can they jail us all? Who will pay to keep us in jail? It might be the thing to do!

I agree with the general idea of this concept of promoting entrepreneurs, innovators, producers, etc. instead of moochers but it seems like doctors would be in a different category. Doctors shouldn't become doctors for selfish, individualistic reasons. They should become doctors for unselfish, compassionate reasons, while of course getting paid in return since resources have never allowed humans to be doctors for free. Of course this doesn't mean taking advantage of them and stripping them of their individual liberty and room for intellectual growth and innovation but I don't see how a doctor, who nobly and selflessly dedicates his entire being to saving lives, should place humanistic individualism and objectivist values above what he's been called to do, and sacrifice lives in the process.

patriot45
10-14-2009, 09:53 PM
I agree with the general idea of this concept of promoting entrepreneurs, innovators, producers, etc. instead of moochers but it seems like doctors would be in a different category. Doctors shouldn't become doctors for selfish, individualistic reasons. They should become doctors for unselfish, compassionate reasons, while of course getting paid in return since resources have never allowed humans to be doctors for free. Of course this doesn't mean taking advantage of them and stripping them of their individual liberty and room for intellectual growth and innovation but I don't see how a doctor, who nobly and selflessly dedicates his entire being to saving lives, should place humanistic individualism and objectivist values above what he's been called to do, and sacrifice lives in the process.

How liberal of you!

I'm no doc. but if I had to go to college for, I don't even know how many years and keep up with the latest innovations and meds, I for one would want to be rich! Yes I want to heal your ills, but bottom line I want to provide for me and mine. Call it just comensation for thier sacrifice of time and energy. The liberal docs can do it for free and do that stupid doctors without borders but I would not deny someone who puts in the work and is a provider to keep the moochers grabbing what is not thiers!

ExLiberal
10-14-2009, 10:07 PM
How liberal of you!

I'm no doc. but if I had to go to college for, I don't even know how many years and keep up with the latest innovations and meds, I for one would want to be rich! Yes I want to heal your ills, but bottom line I want to provide for me and mine. Call it just comensation for thier sacrifice of time and energy. The liberal docs can do it for free and do that stupid doctors without borders but I would not deny someone who puts in the work and is a provider to keep the moochers grabbing what is not thiers!

I'm talking about doctors going on protest for the sake of objectivism, which exalts what Ayn Rand calls "the virtue of selfishness" and demonizes the concept of altruism and selflessness. Selfishness is not a virtue, it's a sin. And while making a living for yourself is not selfish....doctors, who have chosen a profession dedicated to saving OTHER people's lives, going on strike for the sake of objectivism is not only selfish, but evil.

But I know that trying to argue with a libertarian that objectivism is evil is not going to work. It all comes down to one's religious views.

patriot45
10-14-2009, 10:16 PM
I'm talking about doctors going on protest for the sake of objectivism, which exalts what Ayn Rand calls "the virtue of selfishness" and demonizes the concept of altruism and selflessness. Selfishness is not a virtue, it's a sin. And while making a living for yourself is not selfish....doctors, who have chosen a profession dedicated to saving OTHER people's lives, going on strike for the sake of objectivism is not only selfish, but evil.

But I know that trying to argue with a libertarian that objectivism is evil is not going to work. It all comes down to one's religious views.

Crap!

They are going to decide the punishments and fines and restrictions would basically stymie anything they want to do. Instead of fighting an unwinnable battle they will decide to retire and watch from the sidelines.
Like I said , the only revolt that might work is if the providers, not just docs, just up and decided, screw it!

patriot45
10-14-2009, 10:38 PM
Read more. (http://goodsensepolitics.blogspot.com/2009/03/why-are-so-many-doctors-against.html)

Jfor
10-14-2009, 11:22 PM
I'm talking about doctors going on protest for the sake of objectivism, which exalts what Ayn Rand calls "the virtue of selfishness" and demonizes the concept of altruism and selflessness. Selfishness is not a virtue, it's a sin. And while making a living for yourself is not selfish....doctors, who have chosen a profession dedicated to saving OTHER people's lives, going on strike for the sake of objectivism is not only selfish, but evil.

But I know that trying to argue with a libertarian that objectivism is evil is not going to work. It all comes down to one's religious views.

Has nothing to do with religion. Doctors provide a service just as mechanics provide a service. Both should be payed what THEY think they are worth.

Rockntractor
10-15-2009, 12:49 AM
If I was a farmer producing food and nobody would pay me for it should I continue to produce because people would starve?

ExLiberal
10-15-2009, 02:13 AM
Lol when did I say I'm against doctors making money? Of course they should be paid. I was complaining about tieing objectivist values into the healthcare profession. In my opinion, when you're working in healthcare, your objective, after making a living for yourself, should be to help others. Professions are meant to make money to keep one's self alive....not to "make something of ourselves in society" or to "be someone". Not saying you can't love your work- just saying that's not the point of work. Not why God created work. So yes, a doctor's two goals in his job should be a.) to save and provide for himself and his family and b.) to save and help the people he says he wants to save and help. What doctor would become a doctor only to express his indiviualistic passions of creativity or innovation? If they want to be creative and innovative for the sake of saving lives....sure. But not just for the Roarkian pursuit of happiness, individualism, and the excercise of intellectual freedom. There are other professions for that, like architecture or movie-making. Ones that human lives don't directly and desperately depend on. Being a doctor involves a sense of duty and sacrifice to mankind that other jobs don't. And you choose this when you choose to become a doctor. This is why Jimmy Whales, the founder of wikipedia, who is a staunch objectivist, convinced his wife (or gf, can't remember) not to join the nurse profession. Because it's a profession that requires a lot of self-sacrifice. Which to the objectivist is inherently evil.

Rockntractor
10-15-2009, 02:21 AM
You go without eating for awhile and tell me a farmer isn't in a life saving role.

Rockntractor
10-15-2009, 02:22 AM
How does the ambulance get to the hospital if no one drills for oil or the mechanic doesn't keep it running?

ExLiberal
10-15-2009, 02:35 AM
What does any of that have to do with objectivism? Didn't you see where I said that one's own health, safety, and wellbeing comes first? Objectivism goes way beyond just keeping one's self alive and well.

Rockntractor
10-15-2009, 02:47 AM
We all need to withhold our services in protest for a short period until the government is forced to take notice of us. These peaceful tea party demonstrations do not seem to have effected the way or congress is voting. I don't hold doctors above other professions as much as some people do. We all have our responsibilities and their are many professions we can't do without.

Nubs
10-15-2009, 03:03 AM
Lol when did I say I'm against doctors making money? Of course they should be paid. I was complaining about tieing objectivist values into the healthcare profession. In my opinion, when you're working in healthcare, your objective, after making a living for yourself, should be to help others. Professions are meant to make money to keep one's self alive....not to "make something of ourselves in society" or to "be someone". Not saying you can't love your work- just saying that's not the point of work. Not why God created work. So yes, a doctor's two goals in his job should be a.) to save and provide for himself and his family and b.) to save and help the people he says he wants to save and help. What doctor would become a doctor only to express his indiviualistic passions of creativity or innovation? If they want to be creative and innovative for the sake of saving lives....sure. But not just for the Roarkian pursuit of happiness, individualism, and the excercise of intellectual freedom. There are other professions for that, like architecture or movie-making. Ones that human lives don't directly and desperately depend on. Being a doctor involves a sense of duty and sacrifice to mankind that other jobs don't. And you choose this when you choose to become a doctor. This is why Jimmy Whales, the founder of wikipedia, who is a staunch objectivist, convinced his wife (or gf, can't remember) not to join the nurse profession. Because it's a profession that requires a lot of self-sacrifice. Which to the objectivist is inherently evil.

So...

You have never met a Dr
You have no idea what it takes to become a Dr
You have no idea of the cost to become a Dr.
You have no idea the liabilities involved in being a Dr.

When you understand how life works rather than how you feel it should work, then you may have a chance of understanding.

ExLiberal
10-15-2009, 03:44 AM
So...

You have never met a Dr
You have no idea what it takes to become a Dr
You have no idea of the cost to become a Dr.
You have no idea the liabilities involved in being a Dr.

When you understand how life works rather than how you feel it should work, then you may have a chance of understanding.


Assumptions, anyone? Yes, I have, and yes, I do.

It is the promoting of objectivist ideals I'm against. Not the doctors making money or operating free of government intervention. In other words, if this post had mentioned the doctors going on strike to protest Obamacare...but had no mention (or exaltation) of objectivism....I wouldn't have even commented. You don't have to be an objectivist to be against Obamacare. Many Christians are even against universal healthcare.

I'm against objectivism period. Always will be. Doesn't matter if your a farmer, doctor, policeman, ice skater....objectivism is evil, plain and simple.

lacarnut
10-15-2009, 03:51 AM
I'm talking about doctors going on protest for the sake of objectivism, which exalts what Ayn Rand calls "the virtue of selfishness" and demonizes the concept of altruism and selflessness. Selfishness is not a virtue, it's a sin. And while making a living for yourself is not selfish....doctors, who have chosen a profession dedicated to saving OTHER people's lives, going on strike for the sake of objectivism is not only selfish, but evil.

But I know that trying to argue with a libertarian that objectivism is evil is not going to work. It all comes down to one's religious views.

I am not a libertarian and my religious views have nothing to the subject matter. These bastards in Congress are getting ready to ram socialized medicine down our throats. All of us including Doctors will suffer; at least the one that are carrying the water will. The deadbeats will get their shit free. Doctors will refuse to take new patients. They will work fewer hours or retire; I don't blame them one bit. Nothing evil about looking out for number 1 when government is heavy handed. Obama is hell bent on taxing the shit of them. Requiring people to buy insurance is unconstitutional in my opinion.

ExLiberal
10-15-2009, 04:06 AM
I am not a libertarian and my religious views have nothing to the subject matter. These bastards in Congress are getting ready to ram socialized medicine down our throats. All of us including Doctors will suffer; at least the one that are carrying the water will. The deadbeats will get their shit free. Doctors will refuse to take new patients. They will work fewer hours or retire; I don't blame them one bit. Nothing evil about looking out for number 1 when government is heavy handed. Obama is hell bent on taxing the shit of them. Requiring people to buy insurance is unconstitutional in my opinion.

I agree!!! (sans the vulgarity)

What I DONT agree with is tieing objectivism to this, or using this situation to promote it. You DONT have to be an objectivist (and shouldn't be) to be against big government. I mean if this post had said that the doctors are going "Anton levy" instead of going galt...and protesting Obamacare to promote the values of the The Book of Satan (which shares many values with objectivism)....I would be objecting just the same.

Rockntractor
10-15-2009, 04:13 AM
One of the most famous instances of withholding ones services in protest was in Atlas shrugs and on a daily basis I hear going Galt mentioned on radio talk shows. Not so much to highlight objective-ism as to highlight the act of protest.

Speedy
10-15-2009, 01:20 PM
I already dropped out. Fuck Obama and his schemes. I am living off of my 501K, savings and advance from a book that now will probably never be published. The society Obama wants is a society that will get very little from me, but I would gladly work and pay taxes in a capitalistic one.

AmPat
10-16-2009, 01:05 AM
How liberal of you!

I'm no doc. but if I had to go to college for, I don't even know how many years and keep up with the latest innovations and meds, I for one would want to be rich! Yes I want to heal your ills, but bottom line I want to provide for me and mine. Call it just comensation for thier sacrifice of time and energy. The liberal docs can do it for free and do that stupid doctors without borders but I would not deny someone who puts in the work and is a provider to keep the moochers grabbing what is not thiers!

That is a big part of why I no longer teach school. I had continuing educational requirements that I didn't get paid sufficient compensation. Why continue in a career that costs me money to maintain?:confused:

AmPat
10-16-2009, 01:08 AM
One of the most famous instances of withholding ones services in protest was in Atlas shrugs and on a daily basis I hear going Galt mentioned on radio talk shows. Not so much to highlight objective-ism as to highlight the act of protest.
Dagney and I have already bought a place in Panama. I am prepared to punt and go Galt. The Statists can then support their own worthless carcasses.

Rockntractor
10-16-2009, 01:17 AM
Dagney and I have already bought a place in Panama. I am prepared to punt and go Galt. The Statists can then support their own worthless carcasses.

I wish I was in a position where I could leave. It looks like the government will soon regulate me out of business. If that happens they can support me.

patriot45
10-16-2009, 01:44 AM
I wish I was in a position where I could leave. It looks like the government will soon regulate me out of business. If that happens they can support me.

Why would you leave? I'm ready to ditch it all and get out to Gods country!

Rockntractor
10-16-2009, 02:10 AM
Why would you leave? I'm ready to ditch it all and get out to Gods country!

Your thinking about coming to Oklahoma?

ExLiberal
10-16-2009, 02:18 AM
Your thinking about coming to Oklahoma?

I am! Or Alabama. Apparenly Texas wasn't on the list of top 5 conservative states.

lacarnut
10-16-2009, 02:26 AM
Dagney and I have already bought a place in Panama. I am prepared to punt and go Galt. The Statists can then support their own worthless carcasses.

I am torn between Panama and Belize. Those pesky hurricanes are the deciding factor for me. None in Panama plus the health care is top notch with American trained doctors and good hospitals. I have some financial windfalls coming down the pike in the next 6 months; if Obama care passes, I will probably make the move.

Speedy
10-16-2009, 04:08 AM
I am torn between Panama and Belize. Those pesky hurricanes are the deciding factor for me. None in Panama plus the health care is top notch with American trained doctors and good hospitals. I have some financial windfalls coming down the pike in the next 6 months; if Obama care passes, I will probably make the move.

I'm not going anywhere but I am not going to get with the Obammer program either. I am more or less off the grid. I am not working, have more than enough money, stores, weapons and ammo and a desire to live as free as I always have.

AmPat
10-17-2009, 01:34 AM
I am torn between Panama and Belize. Those pesky hurricanes are the deciding factor for me. None in Panama plus the health care is top notch with American trained doctors and good hospitals. I have some financial windfalls coming down the pike in the next 6 months; if Obama care passes, I will probably make the move.

I want to move far enough off the grid yet still be able to eat popcorn while watching the "victim" crowd fight each other for the scraps the vacant "producers" left behind. These morons have a rude awakening coming their way.

I see AmPat Shrugged coming to life.

Speedy
10-17-2009, 02:11 AM
I have said this before and I still believe it. Should a shooting revolution start up in this country people should realize that people like me are going to participate and it is not going to be pretty.

lacarnut
10-17-2009, 02:51 AM
I want to move far enough off the grid yet still be able to eat popcorn while watching the "victim" crowd fight each other for the scraps the vacant "producers" left behind. These morons have a rude awakening coming their way.

I see AmPat Shrugged coming to life.

I am going to get a second passport so that I can reside in Panama or Belize. I think the shit will hit the fan in the next couple of years.

Sonnabend
10-17-2009, 08:34 PM
Has nothing to do with religion. Doctors provide a service just as mechanics provide a service. Both should be payed what THEY think they are worth.Right. Just get your local mechanic to do a heart and lung transplant.

Imbecile.

Nubs
10-17-2009, 10:59 PM
Doctors are in a high risk/high reward profession dominated by type-A personalities. If the government increases the risk and reduces the reward, how in the hell are you suprised if type-A personalities walk???

Jfor
10-18-2009, 10:35 PM
Right. Just get your local mechanic to do a heart and lung transplant.

Imbecile.

Huh??? Not directed at me I hope?