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username
10-18-2009, 12:14 AM
Hello CU.

I have a hard time labeling myself on the political spectrum so I'll just tell you what I think of my presidents.

Carter - I really like Carter. I was only four when he left office so my perspective is detached and includes his post presidential accomplishments, which are monumental compared to those who followed him.

Reagan - I want to like Reagan. I'm too young to remember anything he did. It seems like he helped the rich get richer and was, at best, indifferent to the poor. I'm not sure how I feel about the whole arms race thing. No doubt the collapse of the Soviet Union was a plus. What did it cost us?

H. W. Bush - Reagan II (see above)

Clinton - Grudgingly great. I think, given his environment, that he could have done great things for the U.S. but instead we got NAFTA. However, in general, I think his economic and foreign policy accomplishments were fist class.

Bush Jr. - Worst president in U.S. history, at least in my lifetime. War, deficit, diplomatic ignorance, etc, etc, etc.

Obama - Too early to tell. Anyone looks like a genius after eight years of Jr.

I registered here for some perspective on the conservative outlook. Beck and O'Reilly have me thinking that the right has been inundated by lunatics. Please right me if I'm wrong. Thank you.

PoliCon
10-18-2009, 12:18 AM
oy vey

Rockntractor
10-18-2009, 12:18 AM
Hello CU.

I have a hard time labeling myself on the political spectrum so I'll just tell you what I think of my presidents.

Carter - I really like Carter. I was only four when he left office so my perspective is detached and includes his post presidential accomplishments, which are monumental compared to those who followed him.

Reagan - I want to like Reagan. I'm too young to remember anything he did. It seems like he helped the rich get richer and was, at best, indifferent to the poor. I'm not sure how I feel about the whole arms race thing. No doubt the collapse of the Soviet Union was a plus. What did it cost us?

H. W. Bush - Reagan II (see above)

Clinton - Grudgingly great. I think, given his environment, that he could have done great things for the U.S. but instead we got NAFTA. However, in general, I think his economic and foreign policy accomplishments were fist class.

Bush Jr. - Worst president in U.S. history, at least in my lifetime. War, deficit, diplomatic ignorance, etc, etc, etc.

Obama - Too early to tell. Anyone looks like a genius after eight years of Jr.

I registered here for some perspective on the conservative outlook. Beck and O'Reilly have me thinking that the right has been inundated by lunatics. Please right me if I'm wrong. Thank you.
Pull your head out of your ass and beck will be much clearer to you. It would be easier for you to think with a little more oxygen. Welcome!:D

Rockntractor
10-18-2009, 12:26 AM
Rectal Asphyxiation or RA is a very real condition that is affecting millions of Americans right now! Yes we can help you.

patriot45
10-18-2009, 12:27 AM
Pull your head out of your ass and beck will be much clearer to you. It would be easier for you to think with a little more oxygen. Welcome!:D

LOL, Way too obvious!!! :D

PoliCon
10-18-2009, 12:31 AM
Rectal Asphyxiation or RA is a very real condition that is affecting millions of Americans right now! Yes we can help you.

RA? Here I thought it was just Cranial Rectal Inversion. Meh. We'll see if this one is willing to have actual conversations about facts or if he'll base everything on emotion like the left always does. :rolleyes:

Rockntractor
10-18-2009, 12:35 AM
RA? Here I thought it was just Cranial Rectal Inversion. Meh. We'll see if this one is willing to have actual conversations about facts or if he'll base everything on emotion like the left always does. :rolleyes:

We used to call it CRI but they thought we were talking about a television program so we changed it.

ExLiberal
10-18-2009, 12:46 AM
Welcome, username.

Why do you call O'Reilly a lunatic? He seems more moderate to me.

Constitutionally Speaking
10-18-2009, 09:16 AM
Hello CU.

I have a hard time labeling myself on the political spectrum so I'll just tell you what I think of my presidents.

Carter - I really like Carter. I was only four when he left office so my perspective is detached and includes his post presidential accomplishments, which are monumental compared to those who followed him.

Reagan - I want to like Reagan. I'm too young to remember anything he did. It seems like he helped the rich get richer and was, at best, indifferent to the poor. I'm not sure how I feel about the whole arms race thing. No doubt the collapse of the Soviet Union was a plus. What did it cost us?

H. W. Bush - Reagan II (see above)

Clinton - Grudgingly great. I think, given his environment, that he could have done great things for the U.S. but instead we got NAFTA. However, in general, I think his economic and foreign policy accomplishments were fist class.

Bush Jr. - Worst president in U.S. history, at least in my lifetime. War, deficit, diplomatic ignorance, etc, etc, etc.

Obama - Too early to tell. Anyone looks like a genius after eight years of Jr.

I registered here for some perspective on the conservative outlook. Beck and O'Reilly have me thinking that the right has been inundated by lunatics. Please right me if I'm wrong. Thank you.


It seems as if you have spent too much time reading propaganda instead of looking at facts.

Jimmy Carter is simply the worst President we have had since - well --- EVER.
No matter what aspect of his policies you look at, you get an unmitigated disaster. He is one of the people who contributed immensely to the problems we have today in the middle east. He destroyed the economy and both rich and poor suffered economically under his administration.

Ronald Reagan stopped the economic free - fall that Carter caused & his policies lead to HUGE gains for people of ALL income classes. He also was one of the key figures in curbing the Soviet expansion. The best President - ever.

George Bush was the beneficiary of Reagan's economy yet his tax increase slowed the economy just enough to allow Clinton to further benefit from Reagan's legacy.

Clinton benefited greatly from Regan's tax cuts as many of the jobs that were created during his term in office were created by companies and divisions of companies that were started BECAUSE of the tax cuts and other economic policies of the Reagan term. We are STILL benefiting from the companies that began under Reagan. To his Credit, Clinton pushed for NAFTA which angers the Union people,but if you look at the number of jobs that located here vs the number of jobs that left because of NAFTA - it is pretty much a wash. The difference is that those that located here were higher skilled jobs and they paid better. He squandered the peace dividend though and over-regulated businesses until the economy eventually collapsed near the end of his 2nd term. On foreign policy, Clinton was the major reason we now have to worry about North Korea's Nuclear weapons - and one of the reasons China is now a threat also.

George W. Bush was not the worst President ever but he was not a great one either. His legacy will be freeing 50 million people from dictators AND (if Obama does not screw it up) he will deserve credit for beginning to curb the Islamic threat that Carter helped to gain power. Economically, he brought us out of what SHOULD have been a VERY deep recession by encouraging investments and cutting taxes. Unfortunately, he also spent money to a greater extent than any of his predecessors, he was not able to overcome the liberals on his energy policies and he added significant burdens on businesses by increasing regulations. He also caved into liberals (and then failed to curb them) in the quest for "affordable housing"

Obama is George Bush times 10 economically (without the redeeming tax cutting qualities) and is a repeat of Jimmy Carter on foreign policy. He is a combination of all the worst parts of Carter and Bush - and he retains none of their good parts.

stsinner
10-18-2009, 11:02 AM
You have trouble labeling yourself on the political spectrum? I don't.. Liberal Democrat. That one was easy.

SarasotaRepub
10-18-2009, 11:23 AM
You have trouble labeling yourself on the political spectrum? I don't.. Liberal Democrat. That one was easy.

Ya think? :D

username
10-20-2009, 06:55 PM
It seems as if you have spent too much time reading propaganda instead of looking at facts.

Jimmy Carter is simply the worst President we have had since - well --- EVER.
No matter what aspect of his policies you look at, you get an unmitigated disaster. He is one of the people who contributed immensely to the problems we have today in the middle east. He destroyed the economy and both rich and poor suffered economically under his administration.

Ronald Reagan stopped the economic free - fall that Carter caused & his policies lead to HUGE gains for people of ALL income classes. He also was one of the key figures in curbing the Soviet expansion. The best President - ever.

George Bush was the beneficiary of Reagan's economy yet his tax increase slowed the economy just enough to allow Clinton to further benefit from Reagan's legacy.

Clinton benefited greatly from Regan's tax cuts as many of the jobs that were created during his term in office were created by companies and divisions of companies that were started BECAUSE of the tax cuts and other economic policies of the Reagan term. We are STILL benefiting from the companies that began under Reagan. To his Credit, Clinton pushed for NAFTA which angers the Union people,but if you look at the number of jobs that located here vs the number of jobs that left because of NAFTA - it is pretty much a wash. The difference is that those that located here were higher skilled jobs and they paid better. He squandered the peace dividend though and over-regulated businesses until the economy eventually collapsed near the end of his 2nd term. On foreign policy, Clinton was the major reason we now have to worry about North Korea's Nuclear weapons - and one of the reasons China is now a threat also.

George W. Bush was not the worst President ever but he was not a great one either. His legacy will be freeing 50 million people from dictators AND (if Obama does not screw it up) he will deserve credit for beginning to curb the Islamic threat that Carter helped to gain power. Economically, he brought us out of what SHOULD have been a VERY deep recession by encouraging investments and cutting taxes. Unfortunately, he also spent money to a greater extent than any of his predecessors, he was not able to overcome the liberals on his energy policies and he added significant burdens on businesses by increasing regulations. He also caved into liberals (and then failed to curb them) in the quest for "affordable housing"

Obama is George Bush times 10 economically (without the redeeming tax cutting qualities) and is a repeat of Jimmy Carter on foreign policy. He is a combination of all the worst parts of Carter and Bush - and he retains none of their good parts.

That is a lot of people to talk about in one thread so what do you say we narrow it down to your favorite. Ronald Regan's policies led to the largest increase in the national debt that this country had ever seen (followed by H. W. who consolidated equal amounts of destruction into one term). Please check this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_by_U.S._presidential_terms) page and tell me if you think the numbers matter.

username
10-20-2009, 06:59 PM
You have trouble labeling yourself on the political spectrum? I don't.. Liberal Democrat. That one was easy.

Thanks for your assessment. It really adds substance to this thread. :rolleyes:

lacarnut
10-20-2009, 08:54 PM
Thanks for your assessment. It really adds substance to this thread. :rolleyes:

If you think that post was lacking in substance, I will give you one that will blow your panty waisted skirt up. Jimmy Carter increased the top income tax rate to 70%. Highest in my lifetime. The mortgage interest rates was 17%, unemployment was sky high, gas rationing, jobs were extremely hard to find, banks would not loan you money for a house unless you had 20% down. The Carter period was called the malaise years for a reason; people felt down in the dumps with an idiot for a President. I predict the same is going to happen with the Magic Negro. Put the crack pipe down or the pitcher of kool-aid and try to absorb what I have just stated.

PoliCon
10-20-2009, 10:01 PM
That is a lot of people to talk about in one thread so what do you say we narrow it down to your favorite. Ronald Regan's policies led to the largest increase in the national debt that this country had ever seen (followed by H. W. who consolidated equal amounts of destruction into one term). Please check this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_by_U.S._presidential_terms) page and tell me if you think the numbers matter.

Regan's policies also brought the Soviet Union to its knees bringing freedom to countless MILLIONS of people. Those same policies doubled government revenues and brought an age of prosperity unimagined by the left who were preaching that we had peaked and it was all down hill for us. :rolleyes:

username
10-20-2009, 11:18 PM
If you think that post was lacking in substance, I will give you one that will blow your panty waisted skirt up. Jimmy Carter increased the top income tax rate to 70%. Highest in my lifetime. The mortgage interest rates was 17%, unemployment was sky high, gas rationing, jobs were extremely hard to find, banks would not loan you money for a house unless you had 20% down. The Carter period was called the malaise years for a reason; people felt down in the dumps with an idiot for a President. I predict the same is going to happen with the Magic Negro. Put the crack pipe down or the pitcher of kool-aid and try to absorb what I have just stated.

Agreed, the tax rates were ridiculous. Obviously they did not help the situation. However, you would have to be trapped in a bubble to miss the extenuating circumstances of the time. Judging by your raciest comment, I'm betting your bubble is of the opaque and impenetrable breed. What the hell, I'll take my shot anyway. Carter had to contend with stagflation which was only one problem caused by; OPEC, Iranian revolution, Vietnam, The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, etc. etc. etc. I don't think it's fair to blame the Carter administration for what was in fact a global crisis. His his overzealous tax policy seems reprehensible but, in retrospect, the U.S. economy did surprisingly well (http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1033&context=econfacpub), all things considered. As for your crack pipe and kool-aid - Thanks, but no thanks.

PoliCon
10-20-2009, 11:19 PM
Agreed, the tax rates were ridiculous. Obviously they did not help the situation. However, you would have to be trapped in a bubble to miss the extenuating circumstances of the time. Judging by your raciest comment, I'm betting your bubble is of the opaque and impenetrable breed. What the hell, I'll take my shot anyway. Carter had to contend with stagflation which was caused by; OPEC, Iranian revolution, Vietnam, The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, etc. etc. etc. I don't think it's fair to blame the Carter administration for what was in fact a global crisis. His his overzealous tax policy seems reprehensible but, in retrospect, the U.S. economy did surprisingly well (http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1033&context=econfacpub), all things considered. As for your crack pipe and kool-aid - Thanks, but no thanks.

Carter CAUSED the Iranian revolution and the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan as well.

username
10-20-2009, 11:23 PM
Regan's policies also brought the Soviet Union to its knees bringing freedom to countless MILLIONS of people. Those same policies doubled government revenues and brought an age of prosperity unimagined by the left who were preaching that we had peaked and it was all down hill for us. :rolleyes:

What did it cost us? Your "age of prosperity" seems a fickle facade in retrospect.

username
10-20-2009, 11:24 PM
Carter CAUSED the Iranian revolution and the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan as well.

Okay, show me.

patriot45
10-20-2009, 11:26 PM
Thanks for your assessment. It really adds substance to this thread. :rolleyes:

Oh no, your post is all flat and junk! Let me get my debate out..... oh shit I'm just a conservative, I listen to Fox! Ok bye! :D

Good luck! Lol!

PoliCon
10-20-2009, 11:26 PM
What did it cost us? Your "age of prosperity" seems a fickle facade in retrospect.

every up turn is always fallowed by a down tick. It's a normal part of the economic cycle. The problem we're having now has less to do with economics than it does to do with government regulation and interference in the markets.

PoliCon
10-20-2009, 11:40 PM
Okay, show me.


http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1181813077590&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

http://www.jewishjournal.com/community_briefs/article/jimmy_carter_hatred_is_alive_in_iranian_la_2007101 2/


Iran was fighting against Communists attempting to destabilize the country and against religious fanaticism also aiming to destabilize a pro-western which in their view meant pro-satanic regime. Carter gets elected - demands that the Shah enact progressive reforms - but promises to back up the Shah if there is any trouble - HA! And Carter's weak response there emboldened the Soviets - and lead to their invasion of Afghanistan.

stsinner
10-20-2009, 11:42 PM
Thanks for your assessment. It really adds substance to this thread. :rolleyes:

The thread has substance like a rice cake has satisfaction...

username
10-20-2009, 11:43 PM
every up turn is always fallowed by a down tick. It's a normal part of the economic cycle. The problem we're having now has less to do with economics than it does to do with government regulation and interference in the markets.

The link from post #12 portrays much more then just "a down tick". Don't those numbers mean anything to "conservatives"? I agree with you that a lack of effective regulation in the banking industry has been a major contributor to our current problem. Is that what you meant? Add to that black budget warfare coupled with tax cuts for the rich and here we are.

PoliCon
10-20-2009, 11:58 PM
The link from post #12 portrays much more then just "a down tick". Don't those numbers mean anything to "conservatives"? I agree with you that a lack of effective regulation in the banking industry has been a major contributor to our current problem. Is that what you meant? Add to that black budget warfare coupled with tax cuts for the rich and here we are.

HOLY HELL. LACK of regulation is not a problem - regulation IS the problem along with manipulation of the markets and repressive taxes. It was federal regulations that forced banks to make loans to risky people. It was federal regulation that made it possible for one person to have multiple mortgages on multiple properties as they tried to 'flip' houses. Every time the government sticks it's nose in - they push prices higher and supplies lower. :rolleyes:

Rockntractor
10-20-2009, 11:59 PM
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/policon-demotivational-poster-12560.jpg?t=1256096499

PoliCon
10-21-2009, 12:04 AM
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/policon-demotivational-poster-12560.jpg?t=1256096499

me likey :D

Rockntractor
10-21-2009, 12:12 AM
me likey :D

You can keep him. Classic isn't he?

Lager
10-21-2009, 12:17 AM
The link from post #12 portrays much more then just "a down tick". Don't those numbers mean anything to "conservatives"? I agree with you that a lack of effective regulation in the banking industry has been a major contributor to our current problem. Is that what you meant? Add to that black budget warfare coupled with tax cuts for the rich and here we are.

"Tax cuts for the rich" -- where have I heard that before? Oh yeah, from almost every rabid lefty who posts on internet message boards. Such original economic thinkers.
Anyway, so I presume that once you took the oath to be a liberal, received all your code words, talking points, and bumper stickers, finished your crash course on climate change and stayed up all night watching your free Al Gore and Michael Moore double feature dvd, you signed on to the theory that cutting tax rates, including those of the pariahs otherwise known as "The wealthy". (what is that token rate down to now, eighty thousand or more anuallly?) was the most destructive thing to the economy.

I will agree, it is plausible that cutting tax rates can reduce government revenues, but it is also plausible that cutting tax rates can spur investment, consumer spending and other economic activity, which in the long run can offset the revenue loss, or even produce a net gain.

Now then, I'm guessing you totally agree with the first concept and totally discount the latter. So my question is: if you think the loss of tax revenues was a key factor in large deficits, which in turn was a key factor in the economic crisis, then how is making those deficits even larger going to help solve the problem?

username
10-21-2009, 12:00 PM
HOLY HELL. LACK of regulation is not a problem - regulation IS the problem along with manipulation of the markets and repressive taxes. It was federal regulations that forced banks to make loans to risky people. It was federal regulation that made it possible for one person to have multiple mortgages on multiple properties as they tried to 'flip' houses. Every time the government sticks it's nose in - they push prices higher and supplies lower. :rolleyes:

"those of us who have looked to the self-interest of lending institutions to protect shareholder’s equity (myself especially) are in a state of shocked disbelief. Such counterparty surveillance is a central pillar of our financial markets’ state of balance. If it fails, as occurred this year, market stability is undermined."

No shit?

"As much as I would prefer it otherwise, in this financial environment I see no choice but to require that all securitizers retain a meaningful part of the securities they issue. This will offset in part market deficiencies stemming from the failures of counterparty surveillance. There are additional regulatory changes that this breakdown of the central pillar of competitive markets requires in order to return to stability, particularly in the areas of fraud, settlement, and securitization"

You don't say?

"It is important to remember, however, that whatever regulatory changes are made, they will pale in comparison to the change already evident in today’s markets. Those markets for an indefinite future will be far more restrained than would any currently contemplated new regulatory regime."

Whoa there bud! Are you sure that your using the term "indefinite future" properly?

"We should seek ways to reestablish a more sustainable subprime mortgage market."

In other words, business as usual, right? Unless, wait, are you getting at more regulation?

These quotes are form a "conservative". :confused:

linda22003
10-21-2009, 12:15 PM
banks would not loan you money for a house unless you had 20% down.

THAT part is well on its way to coming back, and a good thing, too.

lacarnut
10-21-2009, 12:42 PM
Agreed, the tax rates were ridiculous. Obviously they did not help the situation. However, you would have to be trapped in a bubble to miss the extenuating circumstances of the time. Judging by your raciest comment, I'm betting your bubble is of the opaque and impenetrable breed. What the hell, I'll take my shot anyway. Carter had to contend with stagflation which was only one problem caused by; OPEC, Iranian revolution, Vietnam, The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, etc. etc. etc. I don't think it's fair to blame the Carter administration for what was in fact a global crisis. His his overzealous tax policy seems reprehensible but, in retrospect, the U.S. economy did surprisingly well (http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1033&context=econfacpub), all things considered. As for your crack pipe and kool-aid - Thanks, but no thanks.

The title Magic Negro was penned by Newsweek and other liberal rags so your comment about racism falls flat as a pancake. Like a good little Obama minion, you try to spew your talking points and when that fails you sling out the pathetic racism charge. You missed Sherlock; try again.

Jimmy Carter was the worst President ever. How old were you when he was President. That should not be too hard a question for you. You are so misinformed when you mention Vietnam and Jimmy Carter in the same breath. JFK started the Vietnam war and it was continued by LBJ and Nixon ended it. Nixon resigned, Ford took over and then Carter was elected President. You are so stupid you do not know what time frame Carter served. No wonder, your babble is so disingenuous. Carter left the economy in shambles with record high inflation, 17%, few jobs, hostages in Iran, viewed as a paper Tiger around the World, economy in shambles. Reagan came in and cleaned up the mess that Carter left. Got the hostages out of Iran PRONTO in a matter of a few days compared to the long period of time held under the peanut farmer's watch. The malaise days of Carter turned into days of hope after Reagan was elected.

Here is a clue for you; google Jimmy Carter and the word malaise, despair, incompetent will pop up on your screen.

username
10-21-2009, 12:48 PM
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1181813077590&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

http://www.jewishjournal.com/community_briefs/article/jimmy_carter_hatred_is_alive_in_iranian_la_2007101 2/


Iran was fighting against Communists attempting to destabilize the country and against religious fanaticism also aiming to destabilize a pro-western which in their view meant pro-satanic regime. Carter gets elected - demands that the Shah enact progressive reforms - but promises to back up the Shah if there is any trouble - HA! And Carter's weak response there emboldened the Soviets - and lead to their invasion of Afghanistan.

I believe that Carter inherited an impossible situation with respect to Iran. The seeds of revolution had grown into saplings by the time he assumed office. He didn't encourage the Shah to repress with violence. He was working for peace and human rights in general. Ironically, weapons exports to the Shah of Iran during the Carter administration were were set to increase. Even conservatives thought that this trade relationship was getting out of hand. There is no way Carter could have known the problem that Iran would become for the West. His efforts to establish peace and human welfare where noble and righteous.

http://www.iran.org/tib/krt/fanning_ch5.htm

BTW, the news sources you linked are severely biased.

lacarnut
10-21-2009, 12:49 PM
THAT part is well on its way to coming back, and a good thing, too.

How well I know; my brother is trying to sell the house he inheritied. The bank turned down a lady that had about 10k to put down on a 130k house. Been on the market for 7 months. The economy is pretty good here with no major layoffs either.

BadCat
10-21-2009, 12:50 PM
Wow, from your very post I already strongly dislike you.

Rockntractor
10-21-2009, 12:50 PM
THAT part is well on its way to coming back, and a good thing, too.
I think allowing people to buy houses with no down payment and interests rates that were too low caused property values to go up way too high. The counties and cities got more tax revenue and now that the values are once again more realistic the cities and counties are whining about the drop in revenue. They need to do like the rest of us and live within their means!

Rockntractor
10-21-2009, 12:53 PM
I believe that Carter inherited an impossible situation with respect to Iran. The seeds of revolution had grown into saplings by the time he assumed office. He didn't encourage the Shah to repress with violence. He was working for peace and human rights in general. Ironically, weapons exports to the Shah of Iran during the Carter administration were were set to increase. Even conservatives thought that this trade relationship was getting out of hand. There is no way Carter could have known the problem that Iran would become for the West. His efforts to establish peace and human welfare where noble and righteous.

http://www.iran.org/tib/krt/fanning_ch5.htm

BTW, the news sources you linked are severely biased.
Have you ever noticed it is always kind of dark and smells like poop wherever you go?:eek:

username
10-21-2009, 12:55 PM
"Tax cuts for the rich" -- where have I heard that before? Oh yeah, from almost every rabid lefty who posts on internet message boards. Such original economic thinkers.

Just because "rabid lefties" say it, doesn't make it false.


Anyway, so I presume that once you took the oath to be a liberal, received all your code words, talking points, and bumper stickers, finished your crash course on climate change and stayed up all night watching your free Al Gore and Michael Moore double feature dvd, you signed on to the theory that cutting tax rates, including those of the pariahs otherwise known as "The wealthy". (what is that token rate down to now, eighty thousand or more anuallly?) was the most destructive thing to the economy.

:rolleyes:


I will agree, it is plausible that cutting tax rates can reduce government revenues, but it is also plausible that cutting tax rates can spur investment, consumer spending and other economic activity, which in the long run can offset the revenue loss, or even produce a net gain.

Now then, I'm guessing you totally agree with the first concept and totally discount the latter. So my question is: if you think the loss of tax revenues was a key factor in large deficits, which in turn was a key factor in the economic crisis, then how is making those deficits even larger going to help solve the problem?

Your wrong and it won't.

lacarnut
10-21-2009, 01:00 PM
I believe that Carter inherited an impossible situation with respect to Iran. The seeds of revolution had grown into saplings by the time he assumed office. He didn't encourage the Shah to repress with violence. He was working for peace and human rights in general. Ironically, weapons exports to the Shah of Iran during the Carter administration were were set to increase. Even conservatives thought that this trade relationship was getting out of hand. There is no way Carter could have known the problem that Iran would become for the West. His efforts to establish peace and human welfare where noble and righteous.

http://www.iran.org/tib/krt/fanning_ch5.htm

BTW, the news sources you linked are severely biased.

Bullshit. The Carter administration and the State Dept. meddled in the affairs of Iran and were instrumental in ousting the Shah. His efforts are parallel to the State Dept. support of the ex commie from Honduras. Obama and Carter are 2 dummies that support our enemies and kick our friends in the ass. Israel is a good example. The apology tour of Obama touting our faults and kissing our enemies ass's will only lead to disastrous consequences. Wait and see. Like half a brain Biden stated "we will be attacked again". Did GWB make moronic statements like that? Nope.

username
10-21-2009, 01:05 PM
The title Magic Negro was penned by Newsweek and other liberal rags so your comment about racism falls flat as a pancake. Like a good little Obama minion, you try to spew your talking points and when that fails you sling out the pathetic racism charge. You missed Sherlock; try again.

Jimmy Carter was the worst President ever. How old were you when he was President. That should not be too hard a question for you. You are so misinformed when you mention Vietnam and Jimmy Carter in the same breath. JFK started the Vietnam war and it was continued by LBJ and Nixon ended it. Nixon resigned, Ford took over and then Carter was elected President. You are so stupid you do not know what time frame Carter served. No wonder, your babble is so disingenuous. Carter left the economy in shambles with record high inflation, 17%, few jobs, hostages in Iran, viewed as a paper Tiger around the World, economy in shambles. Reagan came in and cleaned up the mess that Carter left. Got the hostages out of Iran PRONTO in a matter of a few days compared to the long period of time held under the peanut farmer's watch. The malaise days of Carter turned into days of hope after Reagan was elected.

Here is a clue for you; google Jimmy Carter and the word malaise, despair, incompetent will pop up on your screen.

I'd put "Magic Negro" on the same level of disrespect as Brainless Honky which is the term that I can't get out of my head right now. Have you ever googled "Jimmy Carter malaise" and read any link besides The Right Wing News ?

username
10-21-2009, 01:07 PM
How well I know; my brother is trying to sell the house he inheritied. The bank turned down a lady that had about 10k to put down on a 130k house. Been on the market for 7 months. The economy is pretty good here with no major layoffs either.

Her credit must have been terrible! She should try a different bank.

Rockntractor
10-21-2009, 01:10 PM
I'd put "Magic Negro" on the same level of disrespect as Brainless Honky which is the term that I can't get out of my head right now. Have you ever googled "Jimmy Carter malaise" and read any link besides The Right Wing News ?
Do you have to grease your ears to get your head in all the way?

username
10-21-2009, 01:24 PM
Bullshit. The Carter administration and the State Dept. meddled in the affairs of Iran and were instrumental in ousting the Shah. His efforts are parallel to the State Dept. support of the ex commie from Honduras. Obama and Carter are 2 dummies that support our enemies and kick our friends in the ass. Israel is a good example. The apology tour of Obama touting our faults and kissing our enemies ass's will only lead to disastrous consequences. Wait and see. Like half a brain Biden stated "we will be attacked again". Did GWB make moronic statements like that? Nope.

:D

I suspect you're kidding but it's hard to tell over the"internets".

"We spent a lot of time talking about Africa, as we should. Africa is a nation that suffers from incredible disease." --Gothenburg, Sweden, June 14, 2001

"Tribal sovereignty means that; it's sovereign. I mean, you're a -- you've been given sovereignty, and you're viewed as a sovereign entity. And therefore the relationship between the federal government and tribes is one between sovereign entities." --Washington, D.C., Aug. 6, 2004

"You know, one of the hardest parts of my job is to connect Iraq to the war on terror." --interview with CBS News' Katie Couric, Sept. 6, 2006

"I think I was unprepared for war." –on the biggest regret of his presidency, ABC News interview, Dec. 1, 2008

"Do you have blacks, too?" --to Brazilian President Fernando Cardoso, Washington, D.C., Nov. 8, 2001

"This foreign policy stuff is a little frustrating." --as quoted by the New York Daily News, April 23, 2002

"I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees." --on "Good Morning America," Sept. 1, 2005, six days after repeated warnings from experts about the scope of damage expected from Hurricane Katrina

"See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda." --Greece, N.Y., May 24, 2005

"Goodbye from the world's biggest polluter." --in parting words to world leaders at his final G-8 Summit, punching the air and grinning widely as those present looked on in shock, Rusutsu, Japan, July 10, 2008

"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him." --Washington, D.C., Sept. 13, 2001

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." --Washington, D.C., March 13, 2002

:D

Molon Labe
10-21-2009, 01:56 PM
Clinton - Grudgingly great. I think, given his environment, that he could have done great things for the U.S. but instead we got NAFTA. However, in general, I think his economic and foreign policy accomplishments were fist class.

Grudginly? Wow. It was during his Presidency that the Dot com and Housing bubble policies were being dreamed up. Not that people just started doing these type things under him, but they were by far the main ones that led to what we have today. Not to mention he stoked the coals in the Middle East for 8 years toward animosity for the U.S.
Give me a break.


Bush Jr. - Worst president in U.S. history, at least in my lifetime. War, deficit, diplomatic ignorance, etc, etc, etc.

You won't get any argument here. It's just your lack of ability to see things objectively. Your blatantly partisan blindness is going to cost you below.


Obama - Too early to tell. Anyone looks like a genius after eight years of Jr.

Bull. He's had plenty of time to reverse all Bush's major faults he campainged against. It ain't gonna happen.

I like to call him W the 2nd. If you can't see this then you have more problems than not locating yourself on a political spectrum.

If you don't think the Big O' is gearing up to break the Bush jr. record for incompetance....you ain't seen nothing yet and you aren't looking to hard for the evidence as plain as the nose on your face.
Why don't you be just a bit more intellectually honest about how people like Rahm Emmanuel are different.

lacarnut
10-21-2009, 01:57 PM
I'd put "Magic Negro" on the same level of disrespect as Brainless Honky which is the term that I can't get out of my head right now. Have you ever googled "Jimmy Carter malaise" and read any link besides The Right Wing News ?

Once again, you show your stupidity. Google Jimmy Carter and the first web site that shows up is Wikipedia, then his library, CNN, Huff. Post., PBS, Guardian. I don't see any right wing outfits on that first page. Like Joe Wilson said, "YOU LIE".

Don't blame me if the liberal media has touted Obama as the Magic Negro and the Messiah. He has acerbated the problem by saying "he is the one" whatever the hell that means. Him and his followers are responsible for your head problems. Not I cause I am just parroting and mocking the terminology that these idiots come up with. Tough luck if you do not like it but your beef should be with those minions; it is certainly not my problem.

username
10-21-2009, 02:16 PM
Once again, you show your stupidity. Google Jimmy Carter and the first web site that shows up is Wikipedia, then his library, CNN, Huff. Post., PBS, Guardian. I don't see any right wing outfits on that first page. Like Joe Wilson said, "YOU LIE".

Don't blame me if the liberal media has touted Obama as the Magic Negro and the Messiah. He has acerbated the problem by saying "he is the one" whatever the hell that means. Him and his followers are responsible for your head problems. Not I cause I am just parroting and mocking the terminology that these idiots come up with. Tough luck if you do not like it but your beef should be with those minions; it is certainly not my problem.

You forgot a word "Jimmy Carter malaise". You posted it originally #32. :p

Congratulations! You've imitated Joe Wilson flawlessly.

BadCat
10-21-2009, 02:20 PM
You forgot a word "Jimmy Carter malaise" congratulations you've imitated Joe Wilson flawlessly. You posted it originally #32. :p

You look SO familiar.
I just wanted to say "fuck you asshole", welcome to CU...again.

Constitutionally Speaking
10-21-2009, 04:32 PM
That is a lot of people to talk about in one thread so what do you say we narrow it down to your favorite. Ronald Regan's policies led to the largest increase in the national debt that this country had ever seen (followed by H. W. who consolidated equal amounts of destruction into one term). Please check this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_by_U.S._presidential_terms) page and tell me if you think the numbers matter.



It is all about WHY the debt went up.


Carter had neglected the military (and to be fair so had his predecessors) to the point where our readiness at INCREDIBLY low levels.

Hell, we had neglected things so badly that we could not even fly a couple of helicopters across the desert to rescue the hostages that Iran took - (thanks AGAIN Mr. Carter)

Spare part shortages grounded a HUGE percentage of our equipment and if we were attacked we could fight a war for approximately 4-5 weeks (I'll try to find the link again)!!!

Nearly the ENTIRE Reagan increase in discretionary spending was to make up for the neglect of previous administrations. Nearly every penny of Clinton's surplus was because of a growing economy that was due to conservative policies and HIS neglect of the military (which he then stuck the NEXT administration with the bill), and the "peace dividend" that Reagan created (and Clinton squandered).

Additionally, a large part of the "Reagan's" debt was caused by the stagnant economy he inherited and the lack of revenues that the stagnation caused.

If you wish to expose your ignorance in this area, please feel free to do so.

PoliCon
10-21-2009, 04:41 PM
"those of us who have looked to the self-interest of lending institutions to protect shareholder’s equity (myself especially) are in a state of shocked disbelief. Such counterparty surveillance is a central pillar of our financial markets’ state of balance. If it fails, as occurred this year, market stability is undermined."

No shit?

"As much as I would prefer it otherwise, in this financial environment I see no choice but to require that all securitizers retain a meaningful part of the securities they issue. This will offset in part market deficiencies stemming from the failures of counterparty surveillance. There are additional regulatory changes that this breakdown of the central pillar of competitive markets requires in order to return to stability, particularly in the areas of fraud, settlement, and securitization"

You don't say?

"It is important to remember, however, that whatever regulatory changes are made, they will pale in comparison to the change already evident in today’s markets. Those markets for an indefinite future will be far more restrained than would any currently contemplated new regulatory regime."

Whoa there bud! Are you sure that your using the term "indefinite future" properly?

"We should seek ways to reestablish a more sustainable subprime mortgage market."

In other words, business as usual, right? Unless, wait, are you getting at more regulation?

These quotes are form a "conservative". :confused:

None of those quotes are form - or even FROM me.

PoliCon
10-21-2009, 04:46 PM
I believe that Carter inherited an impossible situation with respect to Iran. The seeds of revolution had grown into saplings by the time he assumed office. He didn't encourage the Shah to repress with violence. He was working for peace and human rights in general. Ironically, weapons exports to the Shah of Iran during the Carter administration were were set to increase. Even conservatives thought that this trade relationship was getting out of hand. There is no way Carter could have known the problem that Iran would become for the West. His efforts to establish peace and human welfare where noble and righteous.

http://www.iran.org/tib/krt/fanning_ch5.htm

BTW, the news sources you linked are severely biased.

It could well be that the seeds were already there - that's not the point. Carter promised an ALLY that we would support him - but Carter didn't. He destabilized Iran and then stuck his tail between his legs when it toppled. And lets be clear - there is no firm evidence that the Shah repressed with violence. There are only the claims of his enemies - not firm evidence - claims of groups well known to lie: communists and islamic fanatics.

Constitutionally Speaking
10-21-2009, 05:00 PM
Originally Posted by Lager View Post
I will agree, it is plausible that cutting tax rates can reduce government revenues, but it is also plausible that cutting tax rates can spur investment, consumer spending and other economic activity, which in the long run can offset the revenue loss, or even produce a net gain.

Now then, I'm guessing you totally agree with the first concept and totally discount the latter. So my question is: if you think the loss of tax revenues was a key factor in large deficits, which in turn was a key factor in the economic crisis, then how is making those deficits even larger going to help solve the problem?



Your wrong and it won't.

He is NOT wrong and it DID - on several different occasions. It does not ALWAYS lead to increased revenues - it depends on which side of the revenue curve that particular tax rate is on at the time the rate cuts are enacted.

username
10-21-2009, 05:01 PM
Thanks for the warm welcome CU! Stay classy.

Constitutionally Speaking
10-21-2009, 05:09 PM
It could well be that the seeds were already there - that's not the point. Carter promised an ALLY that we would support him - but Carter didn't. He destabilized Iran and then stuck his tail between his legs when it toppled. And lets be clear - there is no firm evidence that the Shah repressed with violence. There are only the claims of his enemies - not firm evidence - claims of groups well known to lie: communists and islamic fanatics.

Even if he did (and I believe he did), it was (and IS) pretty standard in that part of the world! The Ayatollah certainly was NOT an improvement.

Jimmy Carter ignorantly ignored the culture of the region and helped to increase the power of the radical extremists exponentially.

BadCat
10-21-2009, 06:13 PM
Thanks for the warm welcome CU! Stay classy.

What would you know about "class", moonbat?

lacarnut
10-21-2009, 06:15 PM
You forgot a word "Jimmy Carter malaise". You posted it originally #32. :p

Congratulations! You've imitated Joe Wilson flawlessly.

How about the rest of them that follow that?. One right-wing post out of 10. Can you not read? . Congratulations! You are the dumbest troll we have had in a while. Joe Wilson was right. You lie also.

BadCat
10-21-2009, 06:25 PM
How about the rest of them that follow that?. One right-wing post out of 10. Can you not read? . Congratulations! You are the dumbest troll we have had in a while. Joe Wilson was right. You lie also.

It smells like a retread to me.

Goldwater
10-21-2009, 06:40 PM
Didn't even try to hide the fact you are a troll.

Bubba Dawg
10-21-2009, 07:05 PM
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/policon-demotivational-poster-12560.jpg?t=1256096499

Nice. Got any Bubba pics with captions?

Bubba Dawg
10-21-2009, 07:08 PM
Thanks for the warm welcome CU! Stay classy.

Come on. What part of a fight in the alley behind a bar is a surprise to you?

You invite abuse. It would be disingenuous of you not to accept it.

Rockntractor
10-21-2009, 09:04 PM
Nice. Got any Bubba pics with captions?

Some day when you least expect it will appear!:D

Bubba Dawg
10-21-2009, 09:08 PM
Some day when you least expect it will appear!:D

I was afraid of that. :p:D

PoliCon
10-21-2009, 09:13 PM
Thanks for the warm welcome CU! Stay classy.

Keep in mind that if this were DU you would have been banned by now. :p And not everyone is going to react the same way. You may or may not be aware that we've recently had problems with trolls who have made new account after new account pretending to be different people spewing the same or at least similar stuff to what you are saying now so . . . some people are less trusting.

Rockntractor
10-21-2009, 09:25 PM
Keep in mind that if this were DU you would have been banned by now. :p And not everyone is going to react the same way. You may or may not be aware that we've recently had problems with trolls who have made new account after new account pretending to be different people spewing the same or at least similar stuff to what you are saying now so . . . some people are less trusting.

Policon may be satanica! just sayin':cool:

PoliCon
10-21-2009, 09:26 PM
Policon may be satanica! just sayin':cool:

mwahahahahahaha! :D

Bubba Dawg
10-21-2009, 09:34 PM
Keep in mind that if this were DU you would have been banned by now. :p And not everyone is going to react the same way. You may or may not be aware that we've recently had problems with trolls who have made new account after new account pretending to be different people spewing the same or at least similar stuff to what you are saying now so . . . some people are less trusting.

Bingo.

Lager
10-21-2009, 10:14 PM
Just because "rabid lefties" say it, doesn't make it false.



:rolleyes:



Your wrong and it won't.

Hey, I agree! so what are the dems doing, now that they're in charge? How are they making the economy better? Oh, that's right, the financial firms that were bailed out are now giving more contributions to them, than the republicans.

PoliCon
10-21-2009, 10:17 PM
Hey, I agree! so what are the dems doing, now that they're in charge? How are they making the economy better? Oh, that's right, the financial firms that were bailed out are now giving more contributions to them, than the republicans.

what do you mean NOW? Most of them always were - which is why they got the bail outs in the first place. :rolleyes:

QUICK QUESTION: How many people know why AIG got a bail out while other like firms were allowed to fail? (Lets see who know's the answer)

Rockntractor
10-21-2009, 10:26 PM
I was afraid of that. :p:D
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/bubba-dawg-mountain-demotivational-.jpg?t=1256178339

lacarnut
10-22-2009, 12:24 AM
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/bubba-dawg-mountain-demotivational-.jpg?t=1256178339

That's a lot of horsey

Rockntractor
10-22-2009, 08:24 PM
Bumping for the dawg.

Bubba Dawg
10-22-2009, 08:29 PM
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/bubba-dawg-mountain-demotivational-.jpg?t=1256178339

:eek::D

A stretch horsie!

Nice.

And I have the same outfit of red sweat pants and grey T-Shirt.:eek:

Bubba Dawg
10-22-2009, 08:59 PM
Have you seen my new car alarm?

http://www.eggleton.net/megamustang/jackstand/REDNECKCARALARM.jpg

Rockntractor
10-22-2009, 09:03 PM
Have you seen my new car alarm?

http://www.eggleton.net/megamustang/jackstand/REDNECKCARALARM.jpg

You need to give the light colored one more vittles!

Bubba Dawg
10-22-2009, 09:12 PM
You need to give the light colored one more vittles!

She does look boney, don't she.

Fortunately none of the canine or feline critters around here have missed any meals. And it shows.

Rockntractor
10-22-2009, 09:15 PM
She does look boney, don't she.

Fortunately none of the canine or feline critters around here have missed any meals. And it shows.

On second glance I think she is nursing.

Bubba Dawg
10-22-2009, 09:17 PM
On second glance I think she is nursing.

Years ago we took in a female with 8 puppies. She was so very thin it was pitiful. We managed to find homes for the pups and she lived with us until she died of old age. She was a great dog.

patriot45
10-22-2009, 11:44 PM
You two are a hell of a tag team! :D

Which one are you two? :D

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i230/patriot45270/116.jpg

Rockntractor
10-22-2009, 11:55 PM
You two are a hell of a tag team! :D

Which one are you two? :D

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i230/patriot45270/116.jpg

Now that is a motley looking crew!