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megimoo
10-24-2009, 03:18 PM
Armed Officers With H&K MP5's Placed on Routine Foot Patrol for First Time (Submachine guns in UK)

A hand-picked team from CO19, the Metropolitan Police's elite firearms unit, will walk the beat in gun crime hotspots where armed gangs have turned entire estates into "no go" zones.

Local politicians and anti-gun campaigners have reacted with anger at the news that the officers will carry Heckler & Koch MP5 submachine guns capable of firing up to 800 rounds-per-minute and Glock semi-automatic pistols.

Gill Marshall-Andrews, chairwoman of the Gun Control Network campaign group, described the routine arming of officers as a "very retrograde step" and warned that it could lead to higher levels of gun crime. "This...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/6407137/Armed-officers-placed-on-routine-foot-patrol-for-first-time.html

expat-pattaya
10-24-2009, 05:41 PM
Gosh. Those scary old guns might get out of control even in the hands of the police.

Next they need to disarm their army. Someone might put an eye out if they get a BB gun :rolleyes:

hampshirebrit
10-24-2009, 05:50 PM
MP5s and Glock 9s are standard issue for firearms-certified UK police officers.

This looks like another pathetic Sonna/Megi "combined arms" end run.

So much so, that to save CU any more embarrassment, I'm going to lock this dumbassed bullshit.

SarasotaRepub
10-24-2009, 07:43 PM
I honestly don't see a need to lock this. Megi's post is right from the link.
And Sonna is not involved in this. :confused:

hampshirebrit
10-24-2009, 07:52 PM
I honestly don't see a need to lock this. Megi's post is right from the link.
And Sonna is not involved in this. :confused:

Yep, you're right, and I'm not.

I should not have locked this thread, and it was wrong of me to do so.

Megi is a moron, a moron playing to another moron's tune, but you are entirely right to call me on locking the thread.

megimoo
10-24-2009, 07:55 PM
Armed Officers Placed on Routine Foot Patrol for first Time,
part 2

Police officers armed with submachine guns are to be deployed on routine patrol of Britain's streets for the first time.
snip
The team of 18 constables, led by an inspector and two sergeants, will begin their patrols of Brixton, Haringey and Tottenham on Nov 9, following successful trial schemes.

The officers some on motorbikes will carrying out weapon "sweeps" of their neighbourhoods in an effort to deter gang members from carrying guns, and are also intended to be a reassuring presence for residents.
snip
Officers from CO19, formerly known as SO19, have been involved in a number of high-profile incidents in the capital, including the shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes at Stockwell station in 2005.

Gun-related crime is on the increase in London with 1,736 gun crimes reported in London between April and September this year up 17 per cent on 2008.

The problem of turf violence between drugs gangs was highlighted earlier this month with a spate of shootings in north London linked to two Turkish gangs, the Tottenham Boys and the Bombacilar.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/6407137/Armed-officers-placed-on-routine-foot-patrol-for-first-time.html

stsinner
10-24-2009, 08:31 PM
Brits should be used to seeing guns if the travel.. When I flew into Heathrow, it was the first place I saw police with machine guns strapped across their chests patrolling an airport.. Britain is a funny place when it comes to guns.. They outright ban then, then they have gun crimes, but can't figure out that if guns are banned, criminals don't turn in their guns and reverse the ban..

I watched a COPS episode filmed in Britain, and they showed the cap all the way from leaving his house at the start of his shift to equipping himself at his police locker in the dressing rooom.. . NO GUN FOR YOU!!.. All he had was a nightstick!! If there is a criminal with a gun, they have a special unit to call that is actually adults and allowed to have guns.. HOW FUCKING STUPID!!!!

I know guns are a cancer in the hands of criminals, but the FACT IS that criminals will always find a way to have guns, so gun bans are RETARDED!!!! Criminals are always going to find a way to have guns, but they are much less likely to commit a crime if there is reason to believe that the intended target is armed..

Sonnabend
10-24-2009, 08:41 PM
A hand-picked team from CO19, the Metropolitan Police's elite firearms unit, will walk the beat in gun crime hotspots where armed gangs have turned entire estates into "no go" zones.

Sounds like France (http://i.ville.gouv.fr/divbib/doc/chercherZUS.htm)


The ZUS exist not only because Muslims wish to live in their own areas according to their own culture and their own Shariah laws, but also because organized crime wants to operate without the judicial and fiscal interference of the French state. In France, Shariah law and mafia rule have become almost identical.

bijou
10-24-2009, 08:54 PM
Brits should be used to seeing guns if the travel.. When I flew into Heathrow, it was the first place I saw police with machine guns strapped across their chests patrolling an airport.. Britain is a funny place when it comes to guns.. They outright ban then, then they have gun crimes, but can't figure out that if guns are banned, criminals don't turn in their guns and reverse the ban..

I watched a COPS episode filmed in Britain, and they showed the cap all the way from leaving his house at the start of his shift to equipping himself at his police locker in the dressing rooom.. . NO GUN FOR YOU!!.. All he had was a nightstick!! If there is a criminal with a gun, they have a special unit to call that is actually adults and allowed to have guns.. HOW FUCKING STUPID!!!!

I know guns are a cancer in the hands of criminals, but the FACT IS that criminals will always find a way to have guns, so gun bans are RETARDED!!!! Criminals are always going to find a way to have guns, but they are much less likely to commit a crime if there is reason to believe that the intended target is armed..

Up until relatively recently (ending as a result of the Northern Ireland peace process) the City of London was patrolled by similarly armed police in the 'ring of steel' security operation. Local politicians and anti gun campaigners may be wringing their hands, many others will be pleased that something is being done about the ongoing battle between drug gangs.

hampshirebrit
10-24-2009, 09:00 PM
Brits should be used to seeing guns if the travel.. When I flew into Heathrow, it was the first place I saw police with machine guns strapped across their chests patrolling an airport.. Britain is a funny place when it comes to guns.. They outright ban then, then they have gun crimes, but can't figure out that if guns are banned, criminals don't turn in their guns and reverse the ban..

I watched a COPS episode filmed in Britain, and they showed the cap all the way from leaving his house at the start of his shift to equipping himself at his police locker in the dressing rooom.. . NO GUN FOR YOU!!.. All he had was a nightstick!! If there is a criminal with a gun, they have a special unit to call that is actually adults and allowed to have guns.. HOW FUCKING STUPID!!!!

I know guns are a cancer in the hands of criminals, but the FACT IS that criminals will always find a way to have guns, so gun bans are RETARDED!!!! Criminals are always going to find a way to have guns, but they are much less likely to commit a crime if there is reason to believe that the intended target is armed..

You're entirely correct. It is fucking stupid.

I hate that the UK cops are becoming more and more armed. An unarmed population should not be under the control of an armed police force. That is exactly why the US has 2A rights.

I recently walked by four armed motorcycle cops lounging around on a street corner in Central London, all of them armed with Glock 9s. To a Brit, legally disarmed, that looks like shit. The colleague I was with beat me to it in saying so, and he's a fucking lib.

stsinner
10-24-2009, 09:21 PM
You're entirely correct. It is fucking stupid.

I hate that the UK cops are becoming more and more armed. An unarmed population should not be under the control of an armed police force. That is exactly why the US has 2A rights.

I recently walked by four armed motorcycle cops lounging around on a street corner in Central London, all of them armed with Glock 9s. To a Brit, legally disarmed, that looks like shit. The colleague I was with beat me to it in saying so, and he's a fucking lib.

I never thought about it from that angle... An armed police force policing an unarmed populace.. That does suck.. Evidently American citizens are arming themselves like never before.. The popular and effective ammo isn't available anywhere-it's being bought up as fast as it can be produced.. Due in large part to the fucking mystery in the Oval Office...

Sonnabend
10-24-2009, 09:44 PM
We've had riots, sure....we've had rowdy street protests..but there isnt one place in Australia where the cops routinely patrol in armour, carrying Glocks and MP5's in public on a daily basis.

Rockntractor
10-24-2009, 09:50 PM
We've had riots, sure....we've had rowdy street protests..but there isnt one place in Australia where the cops routinely patrol in armour, carrying Glocks and MP5's in public on a daily basis.



It's the trained attack crocs that would make me nervous!
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/mn_croc_attack_xtpe801.jpg?t=1256431729

Bubba Dawg
10-24-2009, 09:53 PM
It's the trained attack crocs that would make me nervous!
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/mn_croc_attack_xtpe801.jpg?t=1256431729

Now, see. The croc disarmed that fellow. No problem. Nothing to see here.

expat-pattaya
10-24-2009, 10:39 PM
Anyone notice the long gun int he photo? Ain't no MP5:eek:

I'd swear it was some form of M4. Maybe an H&K manufacture but 9mm mags don't look like that.

hampshirebrit
10-24-2009, 10:57 PM
We've had riots, sure....we've had rowdy street protests..but there isnt one place in Australia where the cops routinely patrol in armour, carrying Glocks and MP5's in public on a daily basis.




The majority of our police officers do not carry firearms. This is true of every single police authority in the United Kingdom, and we are very keen to keep it that way.

Is this also the case in Australia, or would it be true to say that all police officers in Australia are armed?

Sonnabend
10-24-2009, 11:03 PM
The majority of our police officers do not carry firearms. This is true of every single police authority in the United Kingdom, and we are very keen to keep it that way.

Is this also the case in Australia, or would it be true to say that all police officers in Australia are armed?Standard sidearm is a Glock, no armour and no MP5.

http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200709/r173635_656688.jpg

Cops here are NEVER issued assault weapons, with the exception of riot police and Special ops teams..and they use them only for the operation underway.

Afterward they wear what you see in this photo.

I have lived here forty years or more and I can state for a fact that there is NOWHERE here that cops do a routine foot patrol in armour, sidearms and MP5's.

NOWHERE.

hampshirebrit
10-24-2009, 11:31 PM
Standard sidearm is a Glock, no armour and no MP5.


Cops here are NEVER issued assault weapons, with the exception of riot police and Special ops teams..and they use them only for the operation underway.

Afterward they wear what you see in this photo.

I have lived here forty years or more and I can state for a fact that there is NOWHERE here that cops do a routine foot patrol in armour, sidearms and MP5's.

NOWHERE.

I am glad for you that they don't carry ARs as standard, and sorry for you, as an unarmed citizen, that all your Aussie police officers, unlike ours, carry weapons.

Very few of our police officers carry arms. As StS has observed, these are mostly seen at our ports of entry, such as LHR, and in key government areas, which I assume will be the case in most western states.

Only S019 in London and equivalent units in the provinces carry arms. I assume that the cops I saw that day were S019. I still didn't like it. There is a tendency for more armed cops and I don't like that, either.

The only time you see MP5s are at LHR, and even then, not that often, not lately. I've flown out of LHR sixteen times this year and seen them maybe twice. Even S019 rarely brings the heavy stuff out unless something big is kicking off.

Sonnabend
10-24-2009, 11:38 PM
I am glad for you that they don't carry ARs as standard, and sorry for you, as an unarmed citizen, that all your Aussie police officers, unlike ours, carry weapons.

They use them very rarely, and they've been armed for decades..doesnt worry me or anyone else. Part of their uniform....the criminals see the weapons and are afraid...and that's as it should be


Very few of our police officers carry arms. As StS has observed, these are mostly seen at our ports of entry, such as LHR, and in key government areas, which I assume will be the case in most western states.

Not here. Customs go unarmed, the cops carry them as part of their uniform..and I dont ever recall ever seeing a cop or anyone else on the docks or airports here with assault weapons.

I was at the airport last week, saw cops as usual, saw airport security as well (unarmed)..not an MP5 or AR15 in sight.

And as for unarmed citizens.....there are close to ONE MILLION legal gun owners in Australia and growing.

I do not like our gun laws, I do not agree with them, I do not approve of them..but we are far from "unarmed".

hampshirebrit
10-24-2009, 11:41 PM
Anyone notice the long gun int he photo? Ain't no MP5:eek:

I'd swear it was some form of M4. Maybe an H&K manufacture but 9mm mags don't look like that.

You're right. That looks like a stock photo to me. The uniforms are not British police uniforms. As far as I know, the only AR that UK cops use is the MP5. UK cops are pretty much standardized by the Home Office in terms of equipment. They replaced the G3 with the MP5 about five years back. Nice weapon, if you can afford it.

I don't think any UK force uses any M16/M4 variant except the RAF Service Police.

Sonnabend
10-24-2009, 11:56 PM
"Gun crime in this country is very low by international standards and that's largely because there aren't many guns about. Arming police officers sends out all the wrong messages."

http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Laughing/hahaha-024.gif

hampshirebrit
10-25-2009, 12:09 AM
http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Laughing/hahaha-024.gif

Where is this quote from?

O/E, the DT article.

I fully agree with the sentiment.

Gun crime is by international standards, very low in the UK. Armed policing of an unarmed citizenry is a very not good thing.

I am not sure why anyone who lives in a country where he, as a citizen cannot have CCW, would find this a source of amusement.

Do YOU have CCW, Sonnabend? Do you have a weapon? If so, what "Genuine Reason" did you give the authorities?

Rockntractor
10-25-2009, 12:10 AM
Where is this quote from?

http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Laughing/hahaha-024.gif

hampshirebrit
10-25-2009, 12:17 AM
http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Laughing/hahaha-024.gif
:D

PoliCon
10-25-2009, 12:44 AM
HAMPY - satisfy my curiosity please . . . .
What is the racial break down of these 'no go' neighborhoods?
Are they all minority or are there *gasp*:eek: white :eek:*gasp* ones too?

PoliCon
10-25-2009, 12:45 AM
Where is this quote from?

O/E, the DT article.

I fully agree with the sentiment.

Gun crime is by international standards, very low in the UK. Armed policing of an unarmed citizenry is a very not good thing.

I am not sure why anyone who lives in a country where he, as a citizen cannot have CCW, would find this a source of amusement.

Do YOU have CCW, Sonnabend? Do you have a weapon? If so, what "Genuine Reason" did you give the authorities?

I have to agree. Armed police amongst an unarmed populace to me is very threatening to liberty.

expat-pattaya
10-25-2009, 02:00 AM
You're right. That looks like a stock photo to me. The uniforms are not British police uniforms. As far as I know, the only AR that UK cops use is the MP5. UK cops are pretty much standardized by the Home Office in terms of equipment. They replaced the G3 with the MP5 about five years back. Nice weapon, if you can afford it.

I don't think any UK force uses any M16/M4 variant except the RAF Service Police.

Yeah, I figured it was a newspaper stock photo. They don't know the difference between them. The MP5 is a good choice for police use. It is great so long as 9mm and no fast mag changes are OK. I have one and for shooting, well they are very easy to handle and very accurate (for a subgun).

This is mine

http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss253/hamyai/mp5-2post_1.jpg

Rockntractor
10-25-2009, 02:02 AM
Yeah, I figured it was a newspaper stock photo. They don't know the difference between them. The MP5 is a good choice for police use. It is great so long as 9mm and no fast mag changes are OK. I have one and for shooting, well they are very easy to handle and very accurate (for a subgun).

This is mine

http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss253/hamyai/mp5-2post_1.jpg
Nice! Dam nice!:cool:

expat-pattaya
10-25-2009, 09:04 AM
Thanks. It was my first NFA weapon. When I bought it it cost $8000. I can get a bit more than that now if I ever sell :D

stsinner
10-25-2009, 10:01 PM
HAMPY - satisfy my curiosity please . . . .
What is the racial break down of these 'no go' neighborhoods?
Are they all minority or are there *gasp*:eek: white :eek:*gasp* ones too?


LOL.... You're a provocative dumbass, but I'd love to hear the answer to this, as well.. You can prolly find the answer online if you look hard enough... Your denial about minority crime is really quite entertaining..

PoliCon
10-25-2009, 10:04 PM
LOL.... You're a provocative dumbass, but I'd love to hear the answer to this, as well.. You can prolly find the answer online if you look hard enough... Your denial about minority crime is really quite entertaining..

Oh I'm pretty sure I know the answer - I just figure that you'll be more likely to hear it if it doesn't come from me. :rolleyes:

bijou
10-26-2009, 04:21 PM
HAMPY - satisfy my curiosity please . . . .
What is the racial break down of these 'no go' neighborhoods?
Are they all minority or are there *gasp*:eek: white :eek:*gasp* ones too?

The areas being patrolled in this way are parts of the places mentioned (Brixton, Haringey and Tottenham)

Brixton has a large black population, here is a bit of background on


...In particular, the criminal landscape within a narrow two-mile band of north London, between the Green Lanes area of Haringey and Clapton to the east, had reached a critical stage. A ferocious turf war between Bombacilar and the Tottenham Boys was spiralling out of control; in the period immediately before Duzgun's death the gangs were involved in a major shooting every week.

Endemic extortion, intimidation and thuggish protection rackets were increasingly administered to Haringey's large Turkish and Kurdish communities as the turf war took hold. Gang members appeared to be acting with impunity, bragging to local Turkish newspapers that they were only dealing a bit of cannabis and harming no one. But underworld sources revealed the gangs had ready access to an arsenal of firearms. And neither side was shy about using them. Intelligence indicated it was only a matter of time before more innocent bystanders were killed....What added to the decision to use armed patrols was the intelligence that both Turkish groups had forged alliances with some of London's most notorious black gangs, all of whom held a long-standing reputation for violence and the casual use of firearms.

Kavanagh believes that the unprecedented union suggests that the long-standing black gangs of Hackney had joined forces with the Turkish crews to widen their drugs markets and broaden their influence. "The expansion is to do with drugs and violence and kudos and what opportunities they have to support each other. Those bonds are quite chaotic relationships, but involve well-known Hackney gangs, the usual suspects," he said....http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/oct/25/gang-shootings-armed-police-london

It is hard to work out from the media exactly which particular trouble spots are being targeted, but from the areas mentioned and what reporting there is it is likely that they are focusing on black gangs and Turkish gangs in the first instance.

stsinner
10-26-2009, 06:10 PM
Oh I'm pretty sure I know the answer - I just figure that you'll be more likely to hear it if it doesn't come from me. :rolleyes:


The areas being patrolled in this way are parts of the places mentioned (Brixton, Haringey and Tottenham)

Brixton has a large black population, here is a bit of background on

[.

Yep, PoliCon, I heard it...

PoliCon
10-26-2009, 06:54 PM
The areas being patrolled in this way are parts of the places mentioned (Brixton, Haringey and Tottenham)

Brixton has a large black population, here is a bit of background on

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/oct/25/gang-shootings-armed-police-london

It is hard to work out from the media exactly which particular trouble spots are being targeted, but from the areas mentioned and what reporting there is it is likely that they are focusing on black gangs and Turkish gangs in the first instance.

And are only minority neighborhoods the problem? Or are the white neighborhoods that are just as bad?