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View Full Version : Sarkozy or Berlusconi for US President?



C Fabregas
11-20-2009, 02:15 AM
In reading a recent thread about US presidents, I noticed a reference to Clinton's affair with Lewinski (sp?) and was reminded of how bemused many of us here were with the furour surrounding that incident. My SO and I have often discussed this in the context of current European politics.

Both men are generally admired by conservatives for their policies which encourage free markets and the maintenance of their national identities against the tide of Europization. But, Berlusconni is well known for his sexual appetites (witness the recent affairs with high-class prostitutes) and Sarkozy divorced his wife and immediately marrked a very attractive, but bit "bohemian", woman 12 years younger

Therefore, I would ask the members here this question:

Could either Sarkozy or Berlusconni be elected as the American president (assuming they were American, of course)?

SaintLouieWoman
11-20-2009, 08:19 AM
In reading a recent thread about US presidents, I noticed a reference to Clinton's affair with Lewinski (sp?) and was reminded of how bemused many of us here were with the furour surrounding that incident. My SO and I have often discussed this in the context of current European politics.

Both men are generally admired by conservatives for their policies which encourage free markets and the maintenance of their national identities against the tide of Europization. But, Berlusconni is well known for his sexual appetites (witness the recent affairs with high-class prostitutes) and Sarkozy divorced his wife and immediately marrked a very attractive, but bit "bohemian", woman 12 years younger

Therefore, I would ask the members here this question:

Could either Sarkozy or Berlusconni be elected as the American president (assuming they were American, of course)?

Assuming you are a Brit, of course. :rolleyes: It doesn't take long for you to return to your normal themes of prostitutes, etc. Perhaps could your "SO" be a dentist?

C Fabregas
11-20-2009, 11:48 AM
Assuming you are a Brit, of course. :rolleyes: It doesn't take long for you to return to your normal themes of prostitutes, etc. Perhaps could your "SO" be a dentist?

I apologise if I offended any sensibilities with the use of the term, but there has been an ongoing "scandal" regarding Berlusconni and such ladies (although most Italians, from what I can gather, don't seem to care very much). I used him simply as an example to frame the original point derived from the Clinton affair -- could a person of impeccible conservative (or liberal, looking at it the other way) credentials be elected president if his personal life did not meet the American standards of morality? If the Berlusconni example is offensive, please focus upon Sarkozy, who divorced his wife and married Carla Bruni immediateliy thereafter, a woman 12 years younger than him with a "storied" past.

Jfor
11-20-2009, 12:15 PM
You're whole question is based on the premise that Americans were pissed at him for getting a blow job in the oval office. America was pissed because he lied under oath therefor committing a crime.

noonwitch
11-20-2009, 01:17 PM
You're whole question is based on the premise that Americans were pissed at him for getting a blow job in the oval office. America was pissed because he lied under oath therefor committing a crime.


America wasn't really all that pissed off about either Clinton getting a blow job or lying about it. I think the vast majority of americans didn't really care all that much, because the economy was in good shape and Clinton got the credit for that, like it or not.


Americans who didn't like Clinton to begin with were upset.

C Fabregas
11-20-2009, 03:00 PM
America wasn't really all that pissed off about either Clinton getting a blow job or lying about it. I think the vast majority of americans didn't really care all that much, because the economy was in good shape and Clinton got the credit for that, like it or not.


Americans who didn't like Clinton to begin with were upset.

From my observation, this appears to be true. While Clinton was impeached for lying to a court about sexual harrassment (it wasn't Lewinski), it would seem like the conservatives attempted to play the morality card and failed miserably. That says something good about the American people, in my opinion.

But again, I don't want to divert this thread from the central question. Could Sarkozy, if he were an American (we'll leave out Berlusconni since his adventures seem to affront some here), be elected president of the US, given his personal life?

noonwitch
11-20-2009, 03:08 PM
From my observation, this appears to be true. While Clinton was impeached for lying to a court about sexual harrassment (it wasn't Lewinski), it would seem like the conservatives attempted to play the morality card and failed miserably. That says something good about the American people, in my opinion.

But again, I don't want to divert this thread from the central question. Could Sarkozy, if he were an American (we'll leave out Berlusconni since his adventures seem to affront some here), be elected president of the US, given his personal life?



Considering the appreciation most of the male posters here have for Sarkozy's wife, I think he could get elected here if he was an american running for President.

C Fabregas
11-20-2009, 03:11 PM
Considering the appreciation most of the male posters here have for Sarkozy's wife, I think he could get elected here if he was an american running for President.

By extension, what you're saying, is that Clinton is condemned because Lewinski was, shall we say, not particularly attractive? :confused:

lacarnut
11-20-2009, 03:37 PM
From my observation, this appears to be true. While Clinton was impeached for lying to a court about sexual harrassment (it wasn't Lewinski), it would seem like the conservatives attempted to play the morality card and failed miserably. That says something good about the American people, in my opinion.

But again, I don't want to divert this thread from the central question. Could Sarkozy, if he were an American (we'll leave out Berlusconni since his adventures seem to affront some here), be elected president of the US, given his personal life?

Strike 1.Conservatives have had enough of Democrat lite (RINO's) so a Socialist like Sarkozy would not be embraced by conservatives. See tea parties.
Strike 2. Divorce is a stigmatism for candidates running for Presidents in this country.
Strike 3. Gary Hart got caught screwing around while he was running for President. That ended his political career and he dropped out of the race.

Three strikes and you are out!

C Fabregas
11-20-2009, 03:45 PM
Strike 1.Conservatives have had enough of Democrat lite (RINO's) so a Socialist like Sarkozy would not be embraced by conservatives. See tea parties.
Strike 2. Divorce is a stigmatism for candidates running for Presidents in this country.
Strike 3. Gary Hart got caught screwing around while he was running for President. That ended his political career and he dropped out of the race.

Three strikes and you are out!

I'm confused, Mr. Nut.

1. Clearly, conservative Europeans are to the left of conservative Americans. I thought I had made it clear in the original OP that, for the purpose of this thought experiment, we were considering the candidate to have impeccible conservative credentials

2. Wasn't President Reagan divorced?

3. Wasn't President Reagan "screwing around", as you so colourfully put it, when he was married?

hampshirebrit
11-20-2009, 04:33 PM
To coin a phrase of a well established CUer:


Jiminy Cricket

(I love that, btw :D)

As a both a born-and-bred Brit and as both a small- and big- Cee conservative, my most ardent hope is that St Anthony of The Blair will not ascend this newest turquoise throne.

But here's the rub: As neo- and pseudo- Socialist as he is and was back then, he is and always has been a committed Atlanticist. I fully approved, and still do approve, his stance on 9/11, and Iraq, and on Afghan, and on how the UK should support the US.

Still, it's more than time enough that TB and his successors should move over. While I approve of the stance on Iraq/Afhan, they have not shown sufficient commitment to either of these causes, and by underfunding them they have done untold damage to my country in many, many other ways

I know some Brit mil people that have been really, really fucked over and neglected, in ways that utterly shame me, as a Brit, to admit to. Our people deserve much, much better, but they do not get anywhere near the same protection and care that US troops get.

I hate to say it but this sort of thing does make me ashamed at times to be in any way associated in any way with the current UK administration. There have been a few times recently where I have wanted to move back to the US, and the only thing preventing me doing so is your latest president. Even with that situation, I am still inclined to give serious consideration to such a move.

Good British men and women are dying and otherwise getting badly fucked up in Afghan every single day, and every single day I have ShitHooks clattering at low level over my house that could have prevented it. UK-Afghan needs every single heavy-lift helo it can get right now.

I am looking forward to May 9/10 next year. For us in the UK, it's is our November 4th. This is our very best shot at setting things straight.

To go back to the OP's question, the EU needs a non-entity to ascend to the EU presidency. After all, the EU presidency is not, and by definition, cannot be, in any way, a properly representative position.

lacarnut
11-20-2009, 11:44 PM
I'm confused, Mr. Nut.

1. Clearly, conservative Europeans are to the left of conservative Americans. I thought I had made it clear in the original OP that, for the purpose of this thought experiment, we were considering the candidate to have impeccible conservative credentials

2. Wasn't President Reagan divorced?

3. Wasn't President Reagan "screwing around", as you so colourfully put it, when he was married?

Let me make it crystal clear; Sarkozy is not an impeccable conservative. He would be considered a RINO. Therefore, your assertion is nuttier than a fruitcake. Plus, who really gives a rats ass.

Sonnabend
11-21-2009, 02:03 AM
In reading a recent thread about US presidents, I noticed a reference to Clinton's affair with Lewinski (sp?) and was reminded of how bemused many of us here were with the furour surrounding that incident. My SO and I have often discussed this in the context of current European politics

Clinton was impeached for lying to a grand jury..and disbarred as well. The affair meant nothing. His perjury was what did him in.

As it should be.


2. Wasn't President Reagan divorced?

Whats that got to do with lying under oath? Nothing.


3. Wasn't President Reagan "screwing around", as you so colourfully put it, when he was married?

Proof please.

C Fabregas
11-21-2009, 03:32 AM
Clinton was impeached for lying to a grand jury..and disbarred as well. The affair meant nothing. His perjury was what did him in.

As it should be.

I believe I said that...

...While Clinton was impeached for lying to a court about sexual harrassment (it wasn't Lewinski), it would seem like the conservatives attempted to play the morality card and failed miserably. That says something good about the American people, in my opinion.


Whats that got to do with lying under oath? Nothing.

I was responding to this...

Strike 2. Divorce is a stigmatism for candidates running for Presidents in this country.

In point of fact, Reagan was the only US president to be divorced, providing some evidence that in support of the original premise.


Proof please.

Sorry, I wasn't there nor do I have the videotapes. I had thought that it was common knowledge.

C Fabregas
11-21-2009, 03:36 AM
Let me make it crystal clear; Sarkozy is not an impeccable conservative. He would be considered a RINO. Therefore, your assertion is nuttier than a fruitcake. Plus, who really gives a rats ass.

Honestly, this is harder than I anticipated. It was meant as a thought experiment, not as an assertion that Sarkozy is as conservative as, for example, Palin. However, if he were (subjunctive mood), would his personal life bar him from achieving the American presidency?

Sonnabend
11-21-2009, 08:18 AM
Sorry, I wasn't there nor do I have the videotapes. I had thought that it was common knowledge.In her yellow-rag mop of a tome, gossip queen and Democrat scumbag Kitty Kelley accused NANCY of infidelity with mobbed up asshole Sinatra, but the President?

No. No , it isn't, not has it ever been "common knowledge". Matter of fact, YOU are the only one to make that accusation.

CW....can't you ever be original?


as, for example, Palin

Cold Warrior, what part of "BANNED, dont come back" dont you get?

SaintLouieWoman
11-21-2009, 09:40 AM
In her yellow-rag mop of a tome, gossip queen and Democrat scumbag Kitty Kelley accused NANCY of infidelity with mobbed up asshole Sinatra, but the President?

No. No , it isn't, not has it ever been "common knowledge". Matter of fact, YOU are the only one to make that accusation.

CW....can't you ever be original?



Cold Warrior, what part of "BANNED, dont come back" dont you get?

Some people just don't understand or listen.

Enjoy your time in the UK, CW.

Rockntractor
11-21-2009, 10:00 AM
Snif snif snif Mr. Gas is CW ? Who would of thought. Knock me over with a bone in ham!

Rockntractor
11-21-2009, 10:33 AM
Now that we have passed Gas who will he come back as next?

SaintLouieWoman
11-21-2009, 11:11 AM
Snif snif snif Mr. Gas is CW ? Who would of thought. Knock me over with a bone in ham!

:D:D Don't be too sad. I'm sure he'll be back to knock Palin and Reagan again. He just can't resist.

lacarnut
11-21-2009, 12:45 PM
Honestly, this is harder than I anticipated. It was meant as a thought experiment, not as an assertion that Sarkozy is as conservative as, for example, Palin. However, if he were (subjunctive mood), would his personal life bar him from achieving the American presidency?

Your hypothetical model was screwed up from the start. Either you were drunk or you need to go back to school and take an English course in deduction 101. Too bad, so sad.

Lager
11-21-2009, 05:02 PM
Honestly, this is harder than I anticipated. It was meant as a thought experiment, not as an assertion that Sarkozy is as conservative as, for example, Palin. However, if he were (subjunctive mood), would his personal life bar him from achieving the American presidency?

Your obvious implication is that European morality is such that the actions of these men are not considered a character flaw. If Europe is so accepting of infidelity, then what is the attitude of the wives who are the victims of such philandering? Are they as accepting as well?

A larger point that I believe you might be hinting at, is that Europe is so much more pragmatic than the U.S., as they don't let minor things like moral character get in the way of choosing a leader who otherwise follows the same political principles. That may be "pragmatic" to some, but Europeans aren't showing much pragmatism in other areas of their governments: most notably their appeasement of radical Islam.

Lastly, perhaps it is purely an American ideal that loyalty, faithfulness, and self control are important aspects of leadership. That might be considered old fashioned, but I don't think it deserves scorn or ridicule.

lacarnut
11-21-2009, 05:08 PM
Your obvious implication is that European morality is such that the actions of these men are not considered a character flaw. If Europe is so accepting of infidelity, then what is the attitude of the wives who are the victims of such philandering? Are they as accepting as well?

A larger point that I believe you might be hinting at, is that Europe is so much more pragmatic than the U.S., as they don't let minor things like moral character get in the way of choosing a leader who otherwise follows the same political principles. That may be "pragmatic" to some, but Europeans aren't showing much pragmatism in other areas of their governments: most notably their appeasement of radical Islam.

Lastly, perhaps it is purely an American ideal that loyalty, faithfulness, and self control are important aspects of leadership. That might be considered old fashioned, but I don't think it deserves scorn or ridicule.

Good reasons why this scumbag (aka CFabregas) does not belong here.

Rockntractor
11-21-2009, 08:45 PM
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/tombstone.jpg?t=1258854069

lacarnut
11-21-2009, 09:05 PM
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/tombstone.jpg?t=1258854069

Great tombstone. It is a gasser. :)

RobJohnson
11-22-2009, 01:54 AM
Now that we have passed Gas who will he come back as next?

crescent wrench

RobJohnson
11-22-2009, 01:57 AM
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/tombstone.jpg?t=1258854069

At least he's intelligent. :D