PDA

View Full Version : Conservative opinions on Bill Clinton?



CaughtintheMiddle1990
11-22-2009, 02:38 AM
What do you guys feel about Bill Clinton, not as a man or morality or any of that, but on his performance as President?
I mean as president he did sign in law quite a few conservative pieces of legislation (DOMA, Welfare Reform), continued the trend of deregulation of business which Pres. Ford and was continued by every president since, managed (with the help of Congress) to balance the budget, cut the deficit totally within his first term.
Some of these things he intended to do before he went into office--He campaigned in 1992 on a platform of balancing the budget and reducing the deficit, for example.

I'm a liberal, and the only real area I disagree with him (besides DOMA) is his foreign policy--He had a pretty weak foreign policy.

Sonnabend
11-22-2009, 03:41 AM
He had a pretty weak foreign policy.

He was a pissweak coward who cut and ran from Somalia. his cuts to intel, his creation of barriers between agencies and his woeful ignorance created the path to 9/11

He was a fucked up moron who didn't have the brains to listen to his commanders.

CaughtintheMiddle1990
11-22-2009, 03:58 AM
He was a pissweak coward who cut and ran from Somalia. his cuts to intel, his creation of barriers between agencies and his woeful ignorance created the path to 9/11

He was a fucked up moron who didn't have the brains to listen to his commanders.

Well, Somalia was fucked up but a lot of people wanted out--Republicans included. As far as cuts to intel that was, in retrospect, a very dumb move; However, I guess he felt that the Cold War was over and we didn't need to have as large an intelligence community as we had had for the past 40 years--I think he and many other people both in the Administration and the public at large, vastly understated the new threat that was terrorism.
Creating barriers between the agencies was horrible and I won't defend it. And I don't think 9/11 could've been avoided except if the attempts to kill Osama had been successful, and even then, someone like Khalid Sheikh Mohammad or someone else would've taken his place. 9/11 or an event like it I think would've happened regardless of who was President--I don't blame Clinton or Bush for it.

I was talking more with regard to Bosnia, North Korea, those situations.

Sonnabend
11-22-2009, 05:01 AM
Well, Somalia was fucked up but a lot of people wanted out--Republicans included.

Bullshit. Dems and liberals only know two words. Cut. RUN.


As far as cuts to intel that was, in retrospect, a very dumb move; However, I guess he felt that the Cold War was over and we didn't need to have as large an intelligence community as we had had for the past 40 years--I think he and many other people both in the Administration and the public at large, vastly understated the new threat that was terrorism.

That's putting it mildly.

BadCat
11-22-2009, 11:16 AM
He was an abysmal President, as all Dimocrat Presidents are, have been, and always will be.

Did you have a lot of stock in Boo.com?

Big Guy
11-22-2009, 11:47 AM
My opinion on President William Jefferson Clinton, Hmmmmmmmm.

Once you get past the fact that he is a Draft Dodging, Womanizing, Dope Smoking, Lying, Cheating, Murdering, Cowardly piece of dung.

I guess he is okay.

samurai
11-22-2009, 05:28 PM
I look at it like this... he did some good things as President, just as Bush did some bad things (like not securing the border and trying for amnesty, overspending, etc). No President is 100% good or bad, even if we generally agree or disagree with them. Overall, I didn't like Clinton, either as a President or, from what we know of his personal behavior, as a person. But that doesn't mean I must disagree with every single thing he did.

Speedy
11-22-2009, 05:34 PM
The guy was a piece of shit!

lacarnut
11-22-2009, 07:34 PM
Like most Democratic Presidents, he cut defense spending, cut intelligence spending, did not have a clue about foreign policy. Clinton refused to take B.L. on a silver platter . He bear a great deal of the responsibility for 9/11. I do not know how he could have been a bigger fuck up but it looks like the current POS in the WH is going to give it a hell of a try.

Apocalypse
11-23-2009, 12:20 AM
My view of him? Oh where to begin...

A failure on foreign policy. And a disgrace of a leader.


New York City - February 26, 1993
al-Qaeda plans and executes the first attack on New York's twin towers. Led by the criminally insane spiritual leader, Omar Abdel Rahman, they unleash a truck bomb at the base in an attempt to collapse the structure. Six are killed and over a 1,000 are injured. President Clinton promises to hunt those and punish those responsible. With the help of Janet Reno, the administration considers the incident only a criminal act, convicts six and judges the case closed.


Somalia - October 3, 1993
An impatient administration presses U.S. military based in Somalia to engage and capture Somali warlord Mohammed Adid while refusing to equip them with air gunships or heavy armor out of U.N. sensitivities. Al-Qaeda lieutenants train the local insurgency to ambush and counter-attack U.S. Rangers during a daring daylight raid. In a 15-hour firefight 19 American soldiers were killed while inflicting over 1,000 Somalis. An American soldier was dragged naked through the streets in celebration, and President Clinton promises to hunt those and punish those responsible. Days later Clinton announces an abrupt pullout of Somalia and the considers the case closed.


Riyadh, Saudi Arabia - November 13, 1995
Militants strike U.S. military headquarters with a bomb inside a van. Five are killed. The administration sends FBI agents and President Clinton promises to hunt those and punish those responsible. After Saudi Arabia refusing to cooperate after beheading four chosen for blame of the terrorist attack, the administration considers the case closed.


East Africa - August 7, 1998
al-Qaeda conducts orchestrated attacks against U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. Two truck bombs kill 224, including 12 Americans while injuring over 5,000. President Clinton promises to hunt and punish those responsible. Two weeks later he chooses an aspirin factory in Sudan to launch cruise missiles against. Thinking this meek show of force was enough to repel Islamic extremists from attacking the United States, the Clinton administration considered the case closed.


Aden, Yemen - October 12, 2000
al-Qaeda strikes a naval target, the destroyer U.S.S. Cole. With a small boat bomb they murder 17 sailors. The Yemenis quietly arrest eight and jails none. Though President Clinton promises to hunt those and punish those responsible, he does nothing to distract his vice-president, Al Gore, from continuing his presidential campaign. Choosing the election over justice, the Clinton administration considered the case closed.

"Mr. bin Laden used to live in Sudan. He was expelled from Saudi Arabia in 1991, then he went to Sudan. And we'd been hearing that the Sudanese wanted America to start meeting with them again - they released him. At the time, 1996, he had committed no crime against America so I did not bring him here because we had no basis on which to hold him, though we knew he wanted to commit crimes against America. So I pleaded with the Saudis to take him, 'cause they could have. But they thought it was a hot potato and they didn't and that's how he wound up in Afghanistan." (End of excerpt) ~ Bill Clinton

CaughtintheMiddle1990
11-23-2009, 01:42 AM
My view of him? Oh where to begin...

A failure on foreign policy. And a disgrace of a leader.


New York City - February 26, 1993
al-Qaeda plans and executes the first attack on New York's twin towers. Led by the criminally insane spiritual leader, Omar Abdel Rahman, they unleash a truck bomb at the base in an attempt to collapse the structure. Six are killed and over a 1,000 are injured. President Clinton promises to hunt those and punish those responsible. With the help of Janet Reno, the administration considers the incident only a criminal act, convicts six and judges the case closed.


Somalia - October 3, 1993
An impatient administration presses U.S. military based in Somalia to engage and capture Somali warlord Mohammed Adid while refusing to equip them with air gunships or heavy armor out of U.N. sensitivities. Al-Qaeda lieutenants train the local insurgency to ambush and counter-attack U.S. Rangers during a daring daylight raid. In a 15-hour firefight 19 American soldiers were killed while inflicting over 1,000 Somalis. An American soldier was dragged naked through the streets in celebration, and President Clinton promises to hunt those and punish those responsible. Days later Clinton announces an abrupt pullout of Somalia and the considers the case closed.


Riyadh, Saudi Arabia - November 13, 1995
Militants strike U.S. military headquarters with a bomb inside a van. Five are killed. The administration sends FBI agents and President Clinton promises to hunt those and punish those responsible. After Saudi Arabia refusing to cooperate after beheading four chosen for blame of the terrorist attack, the administration considers the case closed.


East Africa - August 7, 1998
al-Qaeda conducts orchestrated attacks against U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. Two truck bombs kill 224, including 12 Americans while injuring over 5,000. President Clinton promises to hunt and punish those responsible. Two weeks later he chooses an aspirin factory in Sudan to launch cruise missiles against. Thinking this meek show of force was enough to repel Islamic extremists from attacking the United States, the Clinton administration considered the case closed.


Aden, Yemen - October 12, 2000
al-Qaeda strikes a naval target, the destroyer U.S.S. Cole. With a small boat bomb they murder 17 sailors. The Yemenis quietly arrest eight and jails none. Though President Clinton promises to hunt those and punish those responsible, he does nothing to distract his vice-president, Al Gore, from continuing his presidential campaign. Choosing the election over justice, the Clinton administration considered the case closed.

"Mr. bin Laden used to live in Sudan. He was expelled from Saudi Arabia in 1991, then he went to Sudan. And we'd been hearing that the Sudanese wanted America to start meeting with them again - they released him. At the time, 1996, he had committed no crime against America so I did not bring him here because we had no basis on which to hold him, though we knew he wanted to commit crimes against America. So I pleaded with the Saudis to take him, 'cause they could have. But they thought it was a hot potato and they didn't and that's how he wound up in Afghanistan." (End of excerpt) ~ Bill Clinton

In retrospect, with the facts we have now yes, his handling of foreign policy was a failure--
But at the time, you have to remember, he was the first president that really had to deal with foreign terrorism, and there was no precedent set on how to deal with it--the only precedent that had been set in the past was with the domestic terrorism of the Weathermen and such groups in the 60s and 70s, and all of those were treated as criminal cases. Domestic terrorism is a lot simpler than foreign based terrorism with little cells all over the world funded by sympathethic governments.

I think that Clinton handled it very poorly but I don't think he really knew what to do, and relied on precedent. I don't think Clinton or most people for that matter realized that the Islamic extremists had declared war on us--At least not in 1993. As far as not committing ourselves to Somalia and whatnot, you have to also remember too that America, after Vietnam, was very very unwilling to commit itself to any major, what would seem like a long term conflict; the shadows of Nam still hung over politics in the 1990s.

By the way-I knew of AQ's involvement in the '93 bombings, the embassy and the Cole but you're the first I've heard link them to Somalia Also, Clinton inherited Somalia from Bush 41, and our presence there was VERY unpopular with the US public at the time (and yes, the Republicans were against it), and there was really no need for us to be there. Didn't effect us directly.

Speedy
11-23-2009, 02:07 AM
He refused to think of terrorism as the cancer that it so obviously was.

Apocalypse
11-23-2009, 07:52 AM
In retrospect, with the facts we have now yes, his handling of foreign policy was a failure--
But at the time, you have to remember, he was the first president that really had to deal with foreign terrorism, and there was no precedent set on how to deal with it--the only precedent that had been set in the past was with the domestic terrorism of the Weathermen and such groups in the 60s and 70s, and all of those were treated as criminal cases. Domestic terrorism is a lot simpler than foreign based terrorism with little cells all over the world funded by sympathethic governments.

I think that Clinton handled it very poorly but I don't think he really knew what to do, and relied on precedent. I don't think Clinton or most people for that matter realized that the Islamic extremists had declared war on us--At least not in 1993. As far as not committing ourselves to Somalia and whatnot, you have to also remember too that America, after Vietnam, was very very unwilling to commit itself to any major, what would seem like a long term conflict; the shadows of Nam still hung over politics in the 1990s.

By the way-I knew of AQ's involvement in the '93 bombings, the embassy and the Cole but you're the first I've heard link them to Somalia Also, Clinton inherited Somalia from Bush 41, and our presence there was VERY unpopular with the US public at the time (and yes, the Republicans were against it), and there was really no need for us to be there. Didn't effect us directly.
First Bold

Remember Carter and the US citizens held hostage? Or all the embassy bombings during Reagan's term? Clinton was far from the first, he was just afraid to pull the trigger and do what needed to be done. Infact you could go back to WWII and look at how Truman handled the Nazi Werwolves that ran around Germany planting bombs to kill US troops and stop the rebuilding of Germany by allied troops.


Second bold. No need for us to be there? Look at the country now, and the fact every nation has their Navy parked off their coast in hope of containing the problems there. If we had stayed and finished the job, then maybe Somalia would have a stable government and we wouldn't be seeing the rampant Piracy that is there now.

Sonnabend
11-23-2009, 08:21 AM
But at the time, you have to remember, he was the first president that really had to deal with foreign terrorism, and there was no precedent set on how to deal with itBullshit. Israel knows how to deal with terrorists, and has carried out dozens of successful operations. Thunderbolt was the jewel of the crown.


By the way-I knew of AQ's involvement in the '93 bombings, the embassy and the Cole but you're the first I've heard link them to Somalia Also, Clinton inherited Somalia from Bush 41, and our presence there was VERY unpopular with the US public at the time (and yes, the Republicans were against it), and there was really no need for us to be there.His craven cowardice was enough incentive for them to plan Sept.11.

He did not "inherit" anything of the kind, Somalia was an ongoing issue regardless of who was in charge...he pulled back, and AQ saw it for what it was...weakness and a foolhardy ideal that running away and hiding under the bed meant the bad man would leave them alone.

Isolationism and inability or unwillingness to engage enemies on their territory on OUR terms is always a fatal mistake.

Dr Snatchpeeper was, and is, an idiot, and he is the same as Clinton, thinking that pulling back means that the issue is over....when in fact all it does is makes sure the enemy knows that not only are they free to strike, but that there would be no retaliation.

Pres. G.W Bush took the lion by the balls and crushed AQ...their fighters dead, their commanders dead or captured...they thought they had another Clinton.,..what they got was a President who was not afraid to carry the fight to them and to smash them ruthlessly.

Fallujah was a massive statement as to the resolve of the US...." we are coming for you"

Iraq = Somalia...the same...except in Iraq they got a fight they didn't expect, and had their head handed to them on a bloody plate. Had Clinton stuck it out in Somalia, they would have run like hell....a few engagements with some very angry Marines or Rangers would have taught them that this was a fight they could not win.

Mess with a US Marine at your peril. Annoy a Ranger, and you will not live to regret your folly.


Didn't effect us directlyOh FUCK, how can anyone be THIS naive? :mad::mad:

What you fail to grasp is this simple law: EVERYTHING affects you directly, even if you dont see the consequences immediately.

Ji committed the Bali bombings, and didnt think that the Indonesians would have the balls to take their people out and execute them. They did.

It sent a message, loud and clear "DONT FUCK WITH US". There was another bombing,..and you can be guaranteed that no matter how long it takes....those responsible will wind up dead or in custody awaiting execution

NO ONE dares mess with the Israelis, and you will note that after Entebbe, the ALO (there is no Palestine) held back from grabbing any more Jews on jetliners and holding them hostage..because they knew full well what would happen to them if they did.

Wanna know why they never bothered the Russians? I'll tell you. This story was passed to me by someone who I cannot name, and I believe every word of it.

One of these Arab terrorist groups grabbed a Russian citizen. So the KGB grabbed one of theirs...and started sending him home...one finger at a time.

A day later the man was released unharmed. I wonder why.....

Show fear to a jackal and he will tear your throat out. Lift a weapon with the words "come and get it", and that jackal will run in gibbering fear.

You are engaged.
You are involved.
You are vulnerable.

You cannot run away from this, and no amount of denial will ameliorate this one shattering truth that is staring you in the face.

The only way to be safe is to instil in the enemy a dread fear of the retaliation they will face, should they dare attack you.

Let them hate....as long as they fear.

A lesson that imbecile Clinton failed to learn then, has never learned since.

SaintLouieWoman
11-23-2009, 09:31 AM
I've worked for many years selling office equipment to the federal government. My most distinct memory of the Clinton years was the frequent comments made to me by former military officers who had taken civilian jobs. The constant theme was "I will not salute that man". Bubba was not liked by the military for good reason. He treated them like waiters, just folks to do his bidding. I agreed with them and was very happy when he was out of office. Sadly, I think Obama is worse.

Rebel Yell
11-23-2009, 09:48 AM
One thing I wouold like to point out about Somalia, Republicans played politics with Somalia under Clinton the same way the Dems played politics with Iraq under Bush. They used the death toll to trash Clinton and make him look like an incompetent CIC. After the events of Black Hawk Down, they stomped there feet and pitched a fit like little girls about "our boys" getting killed in a "meaningless war". It's ALL politics as usual in Washington. Regardless of the party, all they give a shit about is reelection.


BTW, the difference in Clinton and Bush? Clinton folded to popular opinion , while Bush stood by his convictions regardless of his popularity. That's the one thing I'll always give Bush credit for.