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CaughtintheMiddle1990
12-01-2009, 06:45 PM
Hey,

What are your opinions on the fact the Treaty of Lisbon being made effective as of today? Can anyone explain what it does as far as the EU and the significance of it to both us and the EU?

Jfor
12-01-2009, 07:04 PM
none of my business what the europeans want to do with their countries. It basically takes the power from individual governments and puts it into the hands of a centralized european government. seems like a big mess if you ask me.

lacarnut
12-01-2009, 07:21 PM
none of my business what the europeans want to do with their countries. It basically takes the power from individual governments and puts it into the hands of a centralized european government. seems like a big mess if you ask me.

He sound like another dickhead liberal that was banned by starting every post with a question.

Rockntractor
12-01-2009, 07:26 PM
Hey,

What are your opinions on the fact the Treaty of Lisbon being made effective as of today? Can anyone explain what it does as far as the EU and the significance of it to both us and the EU?

What are your opinions?

Jfor
12-01-2009, 07:27 PM
He sound like another dickhead liberal that was banned by starting every post with a question.

Yes he does!

patriot45
12-01-2009, 07:28 PM
What are your opinions?

What is the Treaty of Lisbon? Should I have heard about it?

Rockntractor
12-01-2009, 07:29 PM
What is the Treaty of Lisbon? Should I have heard about it?

Only if it concerns cooking or good booze!:D

CaughtintheMiddle1990
12-01-2009, 07:30 PM
Yes he does!

Well I am a liberal and prefer not to be in an echo chamber with other liberals. I also would like to clear fact from fiction as to how conservatives feel on certain issues--As you probably know there's a lot of misconceptions.

To answer the other guys question, I don't know much except that it seems to tie Europe even more together as one entity, which I think is bad for European nations (as a lot seem to prefer their nations being sovereign) and it's bad for us as, as the EU grows it could become an economic competitor to us

Rockntractor
12-01-2009, 07:32 PM
Well I am a liberal and prefer not to be in an echo chamber with other liberals. I also would like to clear fact from fiction as to how conservatives feel on certain issues--As you probably know there's a lot of misconceptions.

To answer the other guys question, I don't know much except that it seems to tie Europe even more together as one entity, which I think is bad for European nations (as a lot seem to prefer their nations being sovereign) and it's bad for us as, as the EU grows it could become an economic competitor to us

If you are truly a liberal don't you want a one world government?

patriot45
12-01-2009, 07:33 PM
Well I am a liberal and prefer not to be in an echo chamber with other liberals. I also would like to clear fact from fiction as to how conservatives feel on certain issues--As you probably know there's a lot of misconceptions.

To answer the other guys question, I don't know much except that it seems to tie Europe even more together as one entity, which I think is bad for European nations (as a lot seem to prefer their nations being sovereign) and it's bad for us as, as the EU grows it could become an economic competitor to us

Do you want us to join in with a global economy too?

patriot45
12-01-2009, 07:33 PM
If you are truly a liberal don't you want a one world government?

You're fast!:D

Jfor
12-01-2009, 07:34 PM
Well I am a liberal and prefer not to be in an echo chamber with other liberals. I also would like to clear fact from fiction as to how conservatives feel on certain issues--As you probably know there's a lot of misconceptions.

To answer the other guys question, I don't know much except that it seems to tie Europe even more together as one entity, which I think is bad for European nations (as a lot seem to prefer their nations being sovereign) and it's bad for us as, as the EU grows it could become an economic competitor to us

Tell me oh wise liberal one. How is it bad if there is competition in the marketplace? Whether it be competition between businesses or competition between countries? If we want to be an economically powerful country, you don't do it by taxing the living shit out of companies.

CaughtintheMiddle1990
12-01-2009, 07:46 PM
If you are truly a liberal don't you want a one world government?

No, Because I put America first. I'm a liberal in terms of fiscal issues here--As in, what you guys call entitlement or social programs, public school, etc--Stuff for AMERICANSl. I'm against most foreign aid as it is. I believe our money should be spent on Americans, and Americans alone except in special circumstances. I'm also a social liberal, with some social libertarian leanings (I believe prostitution should be legalized at the state level as should Marijuana). I believe in American exceptionalism.

The problem with a one world government is that

1) It would never work. If there is one world government, who is in charge? Us? China? It would almost certainly lead to a major war sooner or later because Russia isn't going to want to take orders from a one world government headed by us. Or vice versa. Also, you'd never get the whole world on board--The entire Middle East (except maybe Israel) would never go for it unless it was a One World Gov't under Sharia.

2) We have enough cultural issues here at home (such as immigrants refusing to speak English, etc) with just One American government that having a One World Government, with so many contradictory and opposing cultures would again, more than likely lead to war, or at least cultural violence on a large scale. We don't need that. I'm also selfish. I love American culture as it is and wouldn't want to see it fade into the background of a hundred other nations' cultures.

3) There really is no benefit** except for the groups that would be in charge of this "One World Government."


**= There could, in theory, be a big scientific/technologica; and medical benefits if all the developed, industrial nations of the world were to put their combined scientific and medical resources and research teams together, working with the gigantic treasury of a One World Government. That is really the only benefit I can see, except for the far fetched scenario of aliens invading Earth, in which case a One World Government would be incredibly necessary.

patriot45
12-01-2009, 07:50 PM
No, I'm a liberal because I put America first. I'm a liberal in terms of fiscal issues here--As in, what you guys call entitlement or social programs, public school, etc--Stuff for AMERICANSl.


Haha! too good, you outed yourself quick grasshopper!
Entitlements good, public school good! What is the right amount a liberal moocher should take from a working member of society to hand over to another moocher?

BadCat
12-01-2009, 07:52 PM
How about "stuff for Americans that pay taxes"?

Not "stuff for lazy, worthless, freeloading, entitlement minded liberal shitheads"?

Jfor
12-01-2009, 07:53 PM
how's this for a liberal idea? You don't work, you don't eat.

CaughtintheMiddle1990
12-01-2009, 07:59 PM
Haha! too good, you outed yourself quick grasshopper!
Entitlements good, public school good! What is the right amount a liberal moocher should take from a working member of society to hand over to another moocher?
'
Every liberal I've ever met worked (in a well paying, usually professional job). My mother is (for the most part) liberal and made over $80,000 a year before she retired (because of disability nearly 15 years ago). Before retiring, she was a hard worker and had worked for nearly 20 years at the same job, and before that had worked faithfully at other jobs; She was never fired or collected unemployment. My sister is a liberal and while not a professional is a VERY hard worker; She often works overtime at her job (working with the mentally challenged) just to make a little extra cash to put food on her family's table.

Also, every person I've met who was on welfare or Medicaid worked or used welfare to get a leg up, and after leaving welfare went on to better themself. Also, I don't see what's wrong with say Medicare, which covers elderly folks. Elderly folks yes are moochers but usually for lack of physical ability being old and all; and disabled folks (which Medicare also covers) are usually not moochers, just disasbled and thus not able to work or work to the extent of a non-disabled person. I've never met a ''moocher" or someone who uses these programs out of pure laziness.

And as far as welfare, I believe in workfare..I don't believe someone should be on it all their lives. I like the '96 reform wherein you have to get a job after two years and can only be on it for 5 years at most. That to me is reasonable, and I wish it was enforced better.

And as far as public education, it is way too politicized but I think that parents should have another option besides private school, and kids shouldn't be deprived of an education because of their parents' lack of money or faults.

patriot45
12-01-2009, 08:12 PM
So what is the amount you want taken from me to give to someone else? You do want to take money from us to give freely to others don't you? How much of my labor should be forcefully taken from me for entitlement programs? C'mon lib, give me an answer.

lacarnut
12-01-2009, 08:16 PM
So what is the amount you want taken from me to give to someone else? You do want to take money from us to give freely to others don't you? How much of my labor should be forcefully taken from me for entitlement programs? C'mon lib, give me an answer.

He is too stupid to give answers; he can only ask questions.

Rockntractor
12-01-2009, 08:17 PM
You are free to give away as much of your own treasure as you like CM, no one is preventing you!

patriot45
12-01-2009, 08:20 PM
He is too stupid to give answers; he can only ask questions.

Oh I know the answer. He wants, From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.
Where have I heard that before!

Rockntractor
12-01-2009, 08:40 PM
Oh I know the answer. He wants, From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.
Where have I heard that before!

I know! It was the Marx bothers.
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/marx-brothers-01.jpg?t=1259717873