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patriot45
12-02-2009, 10:24 AM
Interesting, I came across this in a comment section of a blog. It makes sense.


Something to ponder…Can a Muslim be a real American?

In light of the murders at Ft. Hood by a Muslim Officer (who had sworn to defend the people, our Constitution and the United States ) this article becomes more timely and real than ever;

Can a good Muslim be a good American?

I sent that question to a friend who worked in Saudi Arabia for 20 years. The following is his reply:

Theologically – no. Because his allegiance is to Allah, the moon god of Arabia

Religiously – no. Because no other religion is accepted by his Allah except Islam.

Scripturally – no. Because his allegiance is to the five pillars of Islam and the Quran (Koran).

Geographically – no. Because his allegiance is to Mecca , to which he turns in prayer five times a day.

Socially – no. Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews.

Politically – no. Because he must submit to the mullah (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and Destruction of America, the great Satan.

Domestically – no. Because he is instructed to marry four women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him.

Intellectually – no. Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.

Philosophically – no. Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran do not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.

Spiritually – no. Because when we declare “one nation under God,” the Christian’s God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in The Quran’s 99 excellent names.

linda22003
12-02-2009, 10:30 AM
Our government says yes, given the number of people at my own company who are American citizens and have clearances at least as high as my own.

BadCat
12-02-2009, 10:41 AM
Our government says yes, given the number of people at my own company who are American citizens and have clearances at least as high as my own.

Really?
I know there are some out there with clearances, but we have none here. I know a guy who couldn't get one, he was a very Americanized Iranian, but his sister still lived in Iran...no clearance.

Rockntractor
12-02-2009, 10:43 AM
I had a muslin jacket I bought on clearance once.

FlaGator
12-02-2009, 10:49 AM
A lot of those can be applied to Christians as well.

linda22003
12-02-2009, 10:53 AM
Really?
I know there are some out there with clearances, but we have none here. I know a guy who couldn't get one, he was a very Americanized Iranian, but his sister still lived in Iran...no clearance.

They have to be citizens, and they are. For some intel agency clearances, foreign family is a problem, but the IC itself is working on changing that.

wilbur
12-02-2009, 10:57 AM
What's a "real american"?

Gingersnap
12-02-2009, 10:58 AM
A lot of those can be applied to Christians as well.

Too true. By that set of criteria there are some Christian groups that wouldn't make the grade (although for somewhat different reasons in a few cases).

The problem with Islam is that it was well on the way to becoming a contemporary faith when it was hijacked by purists who took it back to the 6th century.

Can educated Muslims find a middle road between the demands of faith and the demands of citizenship? You bet and thousands do here. It's that 10% who are the problem.

linda22003
12-02-2009, 11:01 AM
I notice the OP didn't link us to the blog.

Rebel Yell
12-02-2009, 11:11 AM
What's a "real american"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGuhZvO1DKg

patriot45
12-02-2009, 11:13 AM
I notice the OP didn't link us to the blog.

Sorry, its over at Brietbart somewhere!

Rockntractor
12-02-2009, 12:12 PM
I notice the OP didn't link us to the blog.

This is an email making the rounds. I could link you to a hundred blog sites carrying it.
http://www.freeman.org/MOL/pages/june2008/more-on-barack-hussein-muhammad-obama.php

linda22003
12-02-2009, 12:17 PM
This is an email making the rounds. I could link you to a hundred blog sites carrying it.
http://www.freeman.org/MOL/pages/june2008/more-on-barack-hussein-muhammad-obama.php

"Obama even says if he wins the election,
he will be sworn in on the Quran---not a Bible!"

Wow. Great stuff. :rolleyes:

Rockntractor
12-02-2009, 12:35 PM
"Obama even says if he wins the election,
he will be sworn in on the Quran---not a Bible!"

Wow. Great stuff. :rolleyes:
It was written by the Jooooooooooooos!

Molon Labe
12-02-2009, 12:36 PM
A lot of those can be applied to Christians as well.

Bingo! ;)

JB
12-02-2009, 06:43 PM
No.

Eagle
12-02-2009, 07:24 PM
What's a "real american"?

Anybody who lives in the western hemosphere. If you live in the United States then you are a United States citizen. A united Statesian.

Big Guy
12-02-2009, 07:43 PM
What's a "real american"?

If you have to ask, you probably won't want to hear the answer. Are you, a "real American" ?

Speedy
12-02-2009, 07:52 PM
Anybody who lives in the western hemosphere. If you live in the United States then you are a United States citizen. A united Statesian.

That does not make you an American. A person does not even have to be born here to be a real American. My ex-wife came to the US at the age of 14 not speaking a word of English. Yet she learned English and was valedectorian of her graduating class. She earned a volleyball scholarship at Texas A&M. She was offered a spot on Mexico's Olympic but turned it down, saying that she was an American now. She was not an American, but was on her way.

She served as an MP in the Army and is the most loyal and patriotic American I know. She is a deep bible believing Christian and there is nothing in her religious beliefs (or mine) that have her betraying her country. Islam is different, it may fit well in a Sharia Law type government but the very tenents of Libery, Freedom and Equality (especially for women) are completely incompatible. The only Muslims who can serve faithfully in the US Military are Muslims who would not be considered very good Muslims by other Muslims.

Big Guy
12-02-2009, 07:59 PM
That does not make you an American. A person does not even have to be born here to be a real American. My ex-wife came to the US at the age of 14 not speaking a word of English. Yet she learned English and was valedectorian of her graduating class. She earned a volleyball scholarship at Texas A&M. She was offered a spot on Mexico's Olympic but turned it down, saying that she was an American now. She was not an American, but was on her way.

She served as an MP in the Army and is the most loyal and patriotic American I know. She is a deep bible believing Christian and there is nothing in her religious beliefs (or mine) that have her betraying her country. Islam is different, it may fit well in a Sharia Law type government but the very tenents of Libery, Freedom and Equality (especially for women) are completely incompatible. The only Muslims who can serve faithfully in the US Military are Muslims who would not be considered very good Muslims by other Muslims.

You nailed it Speedy.

Bubba Dawg
12-02-2009, 08:03 PM
Yes.

Eagle
12-02-2009, 08:16 PM
That does not make you an American. A person does not even have to be born here to be a real American. My ex-wife came to the US at the age of 14 not speaking a word of English. Yet she learned English and was valedectorian of her graduating class. She earned a volleyball scholarship at Texas A&M. She was offered a spot on Mexico's Olympic but turned it down, saying that she was an American now. She was not an American, but was on her way.

She served as an MP in the Army and is the most loyal and patriotic American I know. She is a deep bible believing Christian and there is nothing in her religious beliefs (or mine) that have her betraying her country. Islam is different, it may fit well in a Sharia Law type government but the very tenents of Libery, Freedom and Equality (especially for women) are completely incompatible. The only Muslims who can serve faithfully in the US Military are Muslims who would not be considered very good Muslims by other Muslims.

What would make one a Spainard or Italian for example, would it be a Spanish citizen or an Italian citizen, or could you be a French citizen and just be called a European? American, European? WTF!

Big Guy
12-02-2009, 08:21 PM
What would make one a Spainard or Italian for example, would it be a Spanish citizen or an Italian citizen, or could you be a French citizen and just be called a European? American, European? WTF!

The same story, but in their country.

Eagle
12-02-2009, 08:38 PM
The same story, but in their country.

So then you will understand that even someone like Hugo Chavez is a real American, right! He does rule an American country, a South American one.

Rockntractor
12-02-2009, 08:43 PM
Cut the semantics. A patriotic citizen of the united states of America.

Big Guy
12-02-2009, 08:48 PM
So then you will understand that even someone like Hugo Chavez is a real American, right! He does rule an American country, a South American one.

You sure have a way of twisting things tonight.
Hugo Chavez is a real Venesualen, a piece of crap but a real Venesualen.

The context of this conversation is that a "Real American" is the same as a "Real United States Citizen". :cool:

patriot45
12-02-2009, 08:53 PM
You sure have a way of twisting things tonight.
Hugo Chavez is a real Venesualen, a piece of crap but a real Venesualen.

The context of this conversation is that a "Real American" is the same as a "Real United States Citizen". :cool:

A real American cant be a lefty lib. They did not create America, a real American would be a conservative, who would like to see the Constitution referred to more often!

Eagle
12-02-2009, 09:19 PM
You sure have a way of twisting things tonight.
Hugo Chavez is a real Venesualen, a piece of crap but a real Venesualen.

The context of this conversation is that a "Real American" is the same as a "Real United States Citizen". :cool:

Sorry I didn't see it that way. What I saw was "What is a real American" not what is a citizen of the United States. Do you always see the French, German, Italian, Spanish and so on calling themselves European, yes you do. But, ask them their nationality they will not say European, they will say I'm French, German, Italian, Spanish... Most from the United States will call themselves Americans which is true but if smoeone asks what your nationality is don't say American, say from the United States.

djones520
12-02-2009, 10:10 PM
Lets look at this list.

1. This makes no damn sense. How is one Theologicaly an American? When the author can describe that, then maybe we can address how one isn't.

2. How can one religiously be American when America has no religion? A better question yet, how can one NOT religiously be American when America accepts ALL religions?

3. Scripturally, again I'm failing to see how this has anything to do with being an American. Maybe an explanation would help me see it.

4. Geographically? Do real Americans turn and pray to Washington DC? I missed the part in Social Studies where our prayers were a part of our duty as Americans.

5. Socially? As is his freedom to do so. I know plenty of Christians who will not associate with me because I'm an Atheist. I guess they can't be Americans?

6. This is pure bullshit. Plain and simple. A deranged priest who preaches death and destruction has more authority then those who speak out against it?

7. Spiritually, if this holds true, then I am not an American either, despite being born one, despite defending America with my life for 8 years.


That entire "blog" is nothing more then a man who hates Islam coming up with complete bullshit reasoning trying to alienate Muslims. If you buy into this crap, then I am sorry for you, because it makes you more un-American than those the author is attacking.

patriot45
12-02-2009, 10:21 PM
Lets look at this list.

1. This makes no damn sense. How is one Theologicaly an American? When the author can describe that, then maybe we can address how one isn't.

2. How can one religiously be American when America has no religion? A better question yet, how can one NOT religiously be American when America accepts ALL religions?

3. Scripturally, again I'm failing to see how this has anything to do with being an American. Maybe an explanation would help me see it.

4. Geographically? Do real Americans turn and pray to Washington DC? I missed the part in Social Studies where our prayers were a part of our duty as Americans.

5. Socially? As is his freedom to do so. I know plenty of Christians who will not associate with me because I'm an Atheist. I guess they can't be Americans?

6. This is pure bullshit. Plain and simple. A deranged priest who preaches death and destruction has more authority then those who speak out against it?

7. Spiritually, if this holds true, then I am not an American either, despite being born one, despite defending America with my life for 8 years.


That entire "blog" is nothing more then a man who hates Islam coming up with complete bullshit reasoning trying to alienate Muslims. If you buy into this crap, then I am sorry for you, because it makes you more un-American than those the author is attacking.

It was an easy question. And the points laid out were pretty spot on. How in the world could a devout Muslim be an American!?! Thier main tenet is that we are infidels and if we do not conform to them we should be killed. They also think Sharia law should be the law of OUR land!
That blog is not where I got it from, it was just posted in the comments on the Brietbart site.

Rockntractor
12-02-2009, 10:25 PM
It was an easy question. And the points laid out were pretty spot on. How in the world could a devout Muslim be an American!?! Thier main tenet is that we are infidels and if we do not conform to them we should be killed. They also think Sharia law should be the law of OUR land!
That blog is not where I got it from, it was just posted in the comments on the Brietbart site.

We are not supposed to believe what they say. Get with the program. Just because of an occasional beheading we shouldn't not like them. That is their way of expressing themselves kinda like art you know!

stsinner
12-02-2009, 10:25 PM
Without reading the thread....

No, Islam is not compatible with the Constitution.. They recognize their religious leaders as their government, and they relegate women to a lower rung of society.. Muslims are incompatible with civilized society..

djones520
12-02-2009, 10:26 PM
It was an easy question. And the points laid out were pretty spot on. How in the world could a devout Muslim be an American!?! Thier main tenet is that we are infidels and if we do not conform to them we should be killed. They also think Sharia law should be the law of OUR land!
That blog is not where I got it from, it was just posted in the comments on the Brietbart site.

None of those points were spot on. None of those qualities are required to be an American. To say that you have to be any of those, whatever they may be, completely goes against the First Amendment

patriot45
12-02-2009, 10:32 PM
None of those points were spot on. None of those qualities are required to be an American. To say that you have to be any of those, whatever they may be, completely goes against the First Amendment

The First Amendment? Thats in our Constitution, they really don't think much of it so why do I have to give it to them? They want it thier way and I like it our way. If I moved there I dont think I could become a real (place your middle east country here) either.

wilbur
12-02-2009, 11:22 PM
It was an easy question. And the points laid out were pretty spot on. How in the world could a devout Muslim be an American!?! Thier main tenet is that we are infidels and if we do not conform to them we should be killed. They also think Sharia law should be the law of OUR land!
That blog is not where I got it from, it was just posted in the comments on the Brietbart site.

Easy, really. Even though there is much entrenched extremism, Islam has no special immunity from religious moderation. Truly westernized Muslims wield all the same type of post-hoc rationalizations to explain away the embarrassing bits of their book, not welcome in the modern world, just like Christians or Jews. The Bible and Torah arent exactly good guides to modern living, you know. The fact that many think they are, despite their outlandish contents, is a testament to the influence of those moderating forces.

"War" doesn't mean war, "kill" doesn't really mean kill, etc. Jihad is a "spiritual battle in the mind", etc. Apostasy is the worst crime, but it doesn't actually give you permission to execute apostates, etc.

Many are emulating much from Christian and Jewish theology/philosophy, in fact, and are well on their way to becoming as sophisticated. In the end, they'll eventually pull the same tricks. They'll re-invent their beliefs based on modern ideals, then turn around and claim that it was their belief system that made modern ideals possible.

Rockntractor
12-02-2009, 11:33 PM
Easy, really. Even though there is much entrenched extremism, Islam has no special immunity from religious moderation. Truly westernized Muslims wield all the same type of post-hoc rationalizations to explain away the embarrassing bits of their book, not welcome in the modern world, just like Christians or Jews. The Bible and Torah arent exactly good guides to modern living, you know. The fact that many think they are, despite their outlandish contents, is a testament to the influence of those moderating forces.

"War" doesn't mean war, "kill" doesn't really mean kill, etc. Jihad is a "spiritual battle in the mind", etc. Apostasy is the worst crime, but it doesn't actually give you permission to execute apostates, etc.

Many are emulating much from Christian and Jewish theology/philosophy, in fact, and are well on their way to becoming as sophisticated. In the end, they'll eventually pull the same tricks. They'll re-invent their beliefs based on modern ideals, then turn around and claim that it was their belief system that made modern ideals possible.
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac84/theworld73/07278f54.jpg

AmPat
12-02-2009, 11:54 PM
What's a "real american"?

First one has to possess a brain, you wouldn't understand.:rolleyes:

NJCardFan
12-03-2009, 12:03 AM
None of those points were spot on. None of those qualities are required to be an American. To say that you have to be any of those, whatever they may be, completely goes against the First Amendment
You are the worlds biggest Islamic apologist. So what you're saying is that honor killings are protected by the 1st Amendment? Sharia Law says it's ok to kill a family member if they brought dishonor to the family. You OK with that on American soil? Or anywhere for that matter? It's part of their religion and religion is protected by the 1st Amendment, no? I'll wait for your answer on this.

Speedy
12-03-2009, 01:28 AM
So then you will understand that even someone like Hugo Chavez is a real American, right! He does rule an American country, a South American one.

No he is not! No other country in the North American or South American Continents has "America" in it's name. No country call's it's citizens Americans. Europeans can call themselves Pink and Purple Polka Dotted People Eaters, I don't give a fuck. But in this part of the world, the people do not refer to themselves as part of a continent but by their individual nationalities.

I remember a few years ago when they had the first Baseball World Cup and every team thast played had fans in the stands. The fans of the Japanese team all looked, Japanese. The Mexican team, all the fans looked Mexican, the German team had all white fans. The American team was the only team that had fans who were Black, Hispanic, Asian and White in the stands. All unified cheering one team on.

Hugo Chavez an American. Pffft! That is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard.

FlaGator
12-03-2009, 11:05 AM
Easy, really. Even though there is much entrenched extremism, Islam has no special immunity from religious moderation. Truly westernized Muslims wield all the same type of post-hoc rationalizations to explain away the embarrassing bits of their book, not welcome in the modern world, just like Christians or Jews. The Bible and Torah arent exactly good guides to modern living, you know. The fact that many think they are, despite their outlandish contents, is a testament to the influence of those moderating forces.

"War" doesn't mean war, "kill" doesn't really mean kill, etc. Jihad is a "spiritual battle in the mind", etc. Apostasy is the worst crime, but it doesn't actually give you permission to execute apostates, etc.

Many are emulating much from Christian and Jewish theology/philosophy, in fact, and are well on their way to becoming as sophisticated. In the end, they'll eventually pull the same tricks. They'll re-invent their beliefs based on modern ideals, then turn around and claim that it was their belief system that made modern ideals possible.

You are right in that the liberals in the church are reinventing the church to conform with modern cultural agenda. All the things that are ahorrent about modern culture are being reflect by the rise of the liberal Church. Approval on practicing gay clergy, approval of abortion, approval of same sex marriage, the acceptence of adultry, the acceptance of sex outside of marriage, the acceptance of unwed mothers, the list goes on. That is exactly what some churches are doing and they will say in the end that they were leading the way. But to what end are they leading people too?

However, there is absolutely no proof in the New or Old Testaments for these acceptence. Because the churches are practicing something wholly unGodly and claims it to be God's will does not make it so. True believers have never changed the basis of their beliefs. Views may have been modified as new documents were discovered or more accurate translations were provided, but the core beliefs of Christianity have not changed.

FreeAmerican
12-03-2009, 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by djones520
None of those points were spot on. None of those qualities are required to be an American. To say that you have to be any of those, whatever they may be, completely goes against the First Amendment

You are the worlds biggest Islamic apologist. So what you're saying is that honor killings are protected by the 1st Amendment? Sharia Law says it's ok to kill a family member if they brought dishonor to the family. You OK with that on American soil? Or anywhere for that matter? It's part of their religion and religion is protected by the 1st Amendment, no? I'll wait for your answer on this.


Still waiting.....

noonwitch
12-03-2009, 03:53 PM
You are the worlds biggest Islamic apologist. So what you're saying is that honor killings are protected by the 1st Amendment? Sharia Law says it's ok to kill a family member if they brought dishonor to the family. You OK with that on American soil? Or anywhere for that matter? It's part of their religion and religion is protected by the 1st Amendment, no? I'll wait for your answer on this.


The Old Testament has similar laws. Killing rape victims who don't scream loud for help is one, stoning adulterers, forcing women to marry their rapists, dowries, the whole works. Modern jews and christians have rejected the literal nature of the punishment aspects of violating those laws, for the most part,even if they still obey the laws. And they are for the most part loyal americans.

I'm not okay with Sharia law. I don't think it will happen here. If a father tries to kill his daughter for dishonoring the family, he will be punished in our courts, not Sharia courts. The only people who are allowed any type of separate justice in this country are members of native american tribes, and that's only because of a treaty.

I think that the US, with it's traditions of freedom of religion, is the best place for a moderate Islam to flourish, in the long run. Our culture will corrupt the most devout of muslims. If Donald Wildmon is to be believed, Disney and MTV have had an enormous impact at corrupting the children of christians-let's try it out on muslim children!:D

aerojarod
12-03-2009, 04:13 PM
Can an Amish person?

Look, not all Islam is fundementalist Islam (sharia law, etc).
For example... please see Turkey, which is 95% Muslim and is proud determined to keep its secular government.

Also, The Constitution was not based on the Bible, though it does contain Christian priciples.
The Framers based our natural rights and form of governance upon universally accepted principles that span many religions, not just Christianity. Our common law is rooted in Anglo-Saxxon tribal law.

Pick up The 5000 Year Leap and read it.

AmPat
12-03-2009, 04:55 PM
Can an Amish person?

Look, not all Islam is fundementalist Islam (sharia law, etc).
For example... please see Turkey, which is 95% Muslim and is proud determined to keep its secular government.

Also, The Constitution was not based on the Bible, though it does contain Christian priciples.
The Framers based our natural rights and form of governance upon universally accepted principles that span many religions, not just Christianity. Our common law is rooted in Anglo-Saxxon tribal law.

Pick up The 5000 Year Leap and read it.
Our founding fathers based these rights as given from God.

Eagle
12-03-2009, 08:28 PM
No he is not! No other country in the North American or South American Continents has "America" in it's name. No country call's it's citizens Americans. Europeans can call themselves Pink and Purple Polka Dotted People Eaters, I don't give a fuck. But in this part of the world, the people do not refer to themselves as part of a continent but by their individual nationalities.

I remember a few years ago when they had the first Baseball World Cup and every team thast played had fans in the stands. The fans of the Japanese team all looked, Japanese. The Mexican team, all the fans looked Mexican, the German team had all white fans. The American team was the only team that had fans who were Black, Hispanic, Asian and White in the stands. All unified cheering one team on.

Hugo Chavez an American. Pffft! That is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard.

We are not America we are the 'United States of America'.

Big Guy
12-03-2009, 09:20 PM
None of those points were spot on. None of those qualities are required to be an American. To say that you have to be any of those, whatever they may be, completely goes against the First Amendment

The fist Amendment of the U.S. Constitution?

Amendment 1;
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petion the government for a redress of grievances.

Isn't that the SAME amendment that people use to Prohibit the free exercise of religion, in error. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Speedy
12-03-2009, 11:27 PM
We are not America we are the 'United States of America'.

I guess you missed the part where I said that no one from any other country refers to themselves as an American and that no other country has "America" in it's name.

wilbur
12-04-2009, 12:24 AM
You are right in that the liberals in the church are reinventing the church to conform with modern cultural agenda. All the things that are ahorrent about modern culture are being reflect by the rise of the liberal Church. Approval on practicing gay clergy, approval of abortion, approval of same sex marriage, the acceptence of adultry, the acceptance of sex outside of marriage, the acceptance of unwed mothers, the list goes on. That is exactly what some churches are doing and they will say in the end that they were leading the way. But to what end are they leading people too?

However, there is absolutely no proof in the New or Old Testaments for these acceptence. Because the churches are practicing something wholly unGodly and claims it to be God's will does not make it so. True believers have never changed the basis of their beliefs. (this is part of the problem!!) Views may have been modified as new documents were discovered or more accurate translations were provided, but the core beliefs of Christianity have not changed.

And in a few decades or so, when slightly more reasonable Chiristians and Jews of the future have discarded with the uncivilized beliefs of their present day counterparts (ie. those who still cling to their homophobia and aversion to healthy sex lives) will claim that is was all the natural by-product of the moral teachings espoused by Jesus (or Moses) that made the brave new world possible. Kinda like how today, many claim human rights were all their idea.

Muslim's are getting wise to the scam, and are trying to get in on the action.

Rockntractor
12-04-2009, 12:29 AM
And in a few decades or so, when slightly more reasonable Chiristians and Jews of the future have discarded with the uncivilized beliefs of their present day counterparts (ie. those who still cling to their homophobia and aversion to healthy sex lives) will claim that is was all the natural by-product of the moral teachings espoused by Jesus (or Moses) that made the brave new world possible. Kinda like how today, many claim human rights were all their idea.

Muslim's are getting wise to the scam, and are trying to get in on the action.

http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/mainnbullshit.jpg?t=1259815121

FlaGator
12-04-2009, 07:25 AM
And in a few decades or so, when slightly more reasonable Chiristians and Jews of the future have discarded with the uncivilized beliefs of their present day counterparts (ie. those who still cling to their homophobia and aversion to healthy sex lives) will claim that is was all the natural by-product of the moral teachings espoused by Jesus (or Moses) that made the brave new world possible. Kinda like how today, many claim human rights were all their idea.

Muslim's are getting wise to the scam, and are trying to get in on the action.

Once again you show your lack perception and understanding on this subject. I would sugguest that you follow your suggestion from this post:

http://www.conservativeunderground.com/forum505/showpost.php?p=213076&postcount=6

If you can't accept and take your own advice then you are not qualified to be dispensing it.

Sonnabend
12-04-2009, 07:48 AM
Muslim's are getting wise to the scam, and are trying to get in on the action.

http://resources0.news.com.au/images/2009/07/17/1225751/422900-jakarta-bombing.jpg

http://pakspeaks.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/honour-killings.jpg

http://www.baltimorereporter.com/killing4.jpg

Sonnabend
12-04-2009, 07:54 AM
The questions that should be asked are:

Can a Muslim be a real American?

NO.

Can a Muslim be trusted in the military?

HELL NO.

NJCardFan
12-04-2009, 12:43 PM
The Old Testament has similar laws. Killing rape victims who don't scream loud for help is one, stoning adulterers, forcing women to marry their rapists, dowries, the whole works. Modern jews and christians have rejected the literal nature of the punishment aspects of violating those laws, for the most part,even if they still obey the laws. And they are for the most part loyal americans.

I'm not okay with Sharia law. I don't think it will happen here. If a father tries to kill his daughter for dishonoring the family, he will be punished in our courts, not Sharia courts. The only people who are allowed any type of separate justice in this country are members of native american tribes, and that's only because of a treaty.

I think that the US, with it's traditions of freedom of religion, is the best place for a moderate Islam to flourish, in the long run. Our culture will corrupt the most devout of muslims. If Donald Wildmon is to be believed, Disney and MTV have had an enormous impact at corrupting the children of christians-let's try it out on muslim children!:D
But these things aren't being acted out now except in Islamic countries and by some who come to live here. Ny question to the person I asked it from has yet to be answered.

aerojarod
12-04-2009, 12:54 PM
Our founding fathers based these rights as given from God.

Yes, The Creator or Nature's God as they said. They were all-inclusive, as should we be...

So long as they live and abide by the laws, rights, and obligations that we all share.

Speedy
12-04-2009, 01:15 PM
Yes, The Creator or Nature's God as they said. They were all-inclusive, as should we be...

So long as they live and abide by the laws, rights, and obligations that we all share.

Two simple questions can be asked of everyone and I have always been in favor of these questions being asked of everyone who becomes a naturalize citizen or joins our military.

1. Is it within the realm of posibility that your former country or religion ever find itself at war with the US.

2. Should your former country or religion raise arms against the US, What side would you want to be on?

Christians, Jews, Bhuddists will never philosophically find themselves at war with the US and have to choose between their religion and country. Muslims on the other hand...

AmPat
12-04-2009, 05:57 PM
Seems like some on this board need to understand the difference between the Old and New Testaments and the difference between the Law and Spirit- Law and Faith. Perhaps then the resident Athiests would not present as the ignorant and foolish they continue to be.

patriot45
12-04-2009, 07:13 PM
Seems like some on this board need to understand the difference between the Old and New Testaments and the difference between the Law and Spirit- Law and Faith. Perhaps then the resident Athiests would not present as the ignorant and foolish they continue to be.

A few pages ago I said that I couldn't be a real (name your middle east country here) citizen. I would adhere to my values. They do the same. Why are our heads in the sand? Thier national sport is wanting to kill us, ours is football!

Shannon
12-04-2009, 07:21 PM
We are not America we are the 'United States of America'.

ROFL! This is probably one of the stupidest arguments I've ever read.

patriot45
12-04-2009, 07:33 PM
ROFL! This is probably one of the stupidest arguments I've ever read.

Its called stirring the pudding! :D Where do you stand on Muslims being true to our country? Can they be?
What if they are called on the carpet. Kill the infidel-me and you, or live as an American, They wouldn't hesitate to defer to Allah! I'll keep my answer at NO!

Shannon
12-04-2009, 07:57 PM
Its called stirring the pudding! :D Where do you stand on Muslims being true to our country? Can they be?
What if they are called on the carpet. Kill the infidel-me and you, or live as an American, They wouldn't hesitate to defer to Allah! I'll keep my answer at NO!

I'm still trying to get over the "American" argument. I'm not a big fan of Muslims. I suppose there are some that would choose AMERICA over their religion but I'm a "better safe than sorry" type of gal.

Eagle
12-05-2009, 06:46 PM
I guess you missed the part where I said that no one from any other country refers to themselves as an American and that no other country has "America" in it's name.

Didn't miss the part, just ignored it. North America, South America, Central America, Latin America, whatever, they are all Americans.

FlaGator
12-05-2009, 06:57 PM
Didn't miss the part, just ignored it. North America, South America, Central America, Latin America, whatever, they are all Americans.

When the Islamists shout 'Death to America' who are they referring to?

Speedy
12-05-2009, 06:59 PM
Didn't miss the part, just ignored it. North America, South America, Central America, Latin America, whatever, they are all Americans.

Bullshit! They do not even call themselves Americans. Not a single one of their countries has America in their names. They are not called South Americans, Central Americans, North Americans anywhere.

Eagle
12-05-2009, 07:10 PM
Bullshit! They do not even call themselves Americans. Not a single one of their countries has America in their names. They are not called South Americans, Central Americans, North Americans anywhere.

How often do we hear African-American, Spanish-American, Mexican-American, Asian American and so on and so on?

AmPat
12-05-2009, 08:35 PM
How often do we hear African-American, Spanish-American, Mexican-American, Asian American and so on and so on?

Too often. And from now on, if you are a hyphenated American, please give up your AMERICAN citizenship immediately and go to the country in front of your hyphen.

patriot45
12-05-2009, 08:38 PM
When the Islamists shout 'Death to America' who are they referring to?

Exactly! Its not Venezuela they are referring to!

Shannon
12-05-2009, 09:14 PM
Exactly! Its not Venezuela they are referring to!

Seriously, why are you bothering?

Rockntractor
12-05-2009, 09:17 PM
Seriously, why are you bothering?

My sentiments exactly.

Goldwater
12-06-2009, 06:43 AM
A lot of those can be applied to Christians as well.

Sure can.

You got crazy muslims then you have the ones who are just like you and me, they have feelings and aren't programmed to kill even! They asked these same questions when large quantities of Catholics came over to form the melting pot.

Sonnabend
12-06-2009, 06:46 AM
You got crazy muslims then you have the ones who are just like you and me, they have feelings and aren't programmed to kill even!

Yeah, I saw them in that massive protest march over the murder of 102 people...oh wait....

Speedy
12-06-2009, 06:56 AM
How often do we hear African-American, Spanish-American, Mexican-American, Asian American and so on and so on?

As citizens from where? Have you ever heard of a African-Mexican? Asian-Brazilian? Mexican-Colombian?

FlaGator
12-06-2009, 07:58 AM
Yeah, I saw them in that massive protest march over the murder of 102 people...oh wait....

Mob reactions are quite different from what individuals would do in specific situations. Look at the behavior of some fans at soccer games were people riot and vandalize and even kill. Are all soccer fans held accountable for these actions. Would the individuals involved have done these things had they not be caught up in the mentality of the mob? The easy but wrong thing to do is to generalize all buy the behavior of some. As and Aussie you should know that to some groups all Australians are viewed as crooks and criminals because of the history of Australia, yet you and I know that this is is not true and does a disservice to the Australian people to blanket them with this stereotype.

FlaGator
12-06-2009, 08:07 AM
How often do we hear African-American, Spanish-American, Mexican-American, Asian American and so on and so on?

Those are all groups of U.S. citizens who, for the sake of political correctness, have been segregated from the title of American by redefining them based upon their ethnic background. This is strictly and American invention. In Mexico you do not here them refer to themselves as Mexican-Americans. Why did you include Spanish -American and Asian-American when neither ethnic roots are from the western hemisphere.

Again I will ask you, When Muslim extremist shot death to America, who are they referring to?

Sonnabend
12-06-2009, 08:31 AM
Mob reactions are quite different from what individuals would do in specific situations. Look at the behavior of some fans at soccer games were people riot and vandalize and even kill. Soccer violence happens in ONE place . We are talking WORLDWIDE,,and last time I checked soccer hooligans didnt riot, burn embassies, machinegun nuns and murder CHILDREN over cartoons.

Soccer hooligans didnt infiltrate a school to kidnap a child because her father drew some cartoons.

102 DEAD in a dozen countries.


As an Aussie you should know that to some groups all Australians are viewed as crooks and criminals because of the history of Australia, yet you and I know that this is is not true and does a disservice to the Australian people to blanket them with this stereotype.

stereotype?..and even here we have ragheads who tell us it was justified.MILLIONS were involved worldwide.

A few years ago we had riots after an incident at Cronulla, we had Muslims driving around, smashing cars and FIRING on homes. The only ones prosecuted were NON MUSLIMS.

After many calls to hand the perps over..nothing.Silence. The mummies and daddies hid their little darlings because, we are just kuffar, infidels.

To date ONE Muslim involved in that night of destruction has been brought to trial. The Muslim community closed ranks and refuses to help the police.

ONE.

It is not "a few extremists".,...not by a long shot. And as far as I am concerned, I view any Muslim here with caution...trust? Not a chance in hell.

Sorry, that excuse and lame apology for these Islamofascists wont cut it.

Goldwater
12-06-2009, 10:03 AM
Mob reactions are quite different from what individuals would do in specific situations. Look at the behavior of some fans at soccer games were people riot and vandalize and even kill. Are all soccer fans held accountable for these actions. Would the individuals involved have done these things had they not be caught up in the mentality of the mob? The easy but wrong thing to do is to generalize all buy the behavior of some. As and Aussie you should know that to some groups all Australians are viewed as crooks and criminals because of the history of Australia, yet you and I know that this is is not true and does a disservice to the Australian people to blanket them with this stereotype.


It is not "a few extremists".,...not by a long shot. And as far as I am concerned, I view any Muslim here with caution...trust? Not a chance in hell.

Sorry, that excuse and lame apology for these Islamofascists wont cut it.

Sometimes FlaGator, people are best left alone. ;)

NJCardFan
12-06-2009, 11:53 AM
None of those points were spot on. None of those qualities are required to be an American. To say that you have to be any of those, whatever they may be, completely goes against the First Amendment

My question still remains unanswered by you I see. Conveniently ignoring it I guess.

And to Rebel Yell, this is a much better pro-American wrestling entrance:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9ekqzr0Zxw

Sonnabend
12-06-2009, 02:48 PM
Sometimes FlaGator, people are best left alone. ;)

Funny. we said the same when you RonDroids invaded this forum. Yet here you are.

Practise what you fucking preach.

Eagle
12-06-2009, 04:18 PM
ROFL! This is probably one of the stupidest arguments I've ever read.

Laugh your ass off all you want but I believe that you are wrong. I believe that it is the United States that we are talking about more than the hemosphere called the Americas. So what is ignorant?

FlaGator
12-06-2009, 04:55 PM
Soccer violence happens in ONE place . We are talking WORLDWIDE,,and last time I checked soccer hooligans didnt riot, burn embassies, machinegun nuns and murder CHILDREN over cartoons.

Soccer hooligans didnt infiltrate a school to kidnap a child because her father drew some cartoons.

102 DEAD in a dozen countries.



stereotype?..and even here we have ragheads who tell us it was justified.MILLIONS were involved worldwide.

A few years ago we had riots after an incident at Cronulla, we had Muslims driving around, smashing cars and FIRING on homes. The only ones prosecuted were NON MUSLIMS.

After many calls to hand the perps over..nothing.Silence. The mummies and daddies hid their little darlings because, we are just kuffar, infidels.

To date ONE Muslim involved in that night of destruction has been brought to trial. The Muslim community closed ranks and refuses to help the police.

ONE.

It is not "a few extremists".,...not by a long shot. And as far as I am concerned, I view any Muslim here with caution...trust? Not a chance in hell.

Sorry, that excuse and lame apology for these Islamofascists wont cut it.

Dude, you take examples way to literally. Also you need to understand that I wasn't apologizing form Islamists, I was pointing out how the real world works. You are not unlike the Islamists you decry, you are so wrapped up in your hatred of them that it clouds your judgment and seems to fog your thinking. Your principals are different but your words and expressed actions mirror them. They don't understand you, you don't understand them. They don't forgive, you don't forgive. If your attitude wasn't so much like theirs then perhaps you understand what people are saying to you.

You behave and talk exactly like they do. Ask around... take a poll, it may surprise you but many here don't see you as too different from the Mohammedans in your confrontational attitude. Just something to think about, if you care to.

Eagle
12-06-2009, 06:05 PM
Those are all groups of U.S. citizens who, for the sake of political correctness, have been segregated from the title of American by redefining them based upon their ethnic background. This is strictly and American invention. In Mexico you do not here them refer to themselves as Mexican-Americans. Why did you include Spanish -American and Asian-American when neither ethnic roots are from the western hemisphere.

Again I will ask you, When Muslim extremist shot death to America, who are they referring to?

Obviously a muslam extremeist!

Goldwater
12-06-2009, 06:33 PM
Funny. we said the same when you RonDroids invaded this forum. Yet here you are.

Practise what you fucking preach.

Funny, because that wasn't what was said and strangely (not for you though) makes no sense in this context.

Stop trying to be some brilliant asshole, it's not you.

RobJohnson
12-06-2009, 08:47 PM
I had a muslin jacket I bought on clearance once.

:D

RobJohnson
12-06-2009, 08:54 PM
Too true. By that set of criteria there are some Christian groups that wouldn't make the grade (although for somewhat different reasons in a few cases).




I've known this about Jehovah's Witnesses for years! :D

Shannon
12-06-2009, 09:48 PM
Laugh your ass off all you want but I believe that you are wrong. I believe that it is the United States that we are talking about more than the hemosphere called the Americas. So what is ignorant?

You. You, you, you, You are a fucking dumbass. You are a fucking tool. Clear enough? Jiminy Cricket.:rolleyes:

Eagle
12-07-2009, 06:52 PM
You. You, you, you, You are a fucking dumbass. You are a fucking tool. Clear enough? Jiminy Cricket.:rolleyes:

OK! ***Hands in air*** ;I give; I'm a fucking dumbass; you win.. :rolleyes: Enjoy your conquest.

Rockntractor
12-07-2009, 06:55 PM
OK! ***Hands in air*** ;I give; I'm a fucking dumbass; you win.. :rolleyes: Enjoy your conquest.
Now you must flog yourself and produce photos.

Eagle
12-07-2009, 08:02 PM
Now you must flog yourself and produce photos.

http://www.motivatedphotos.com/?id=4970

patriot45
12-07-2009, 09:14 PM
On an opposite tack, it seems like Americans can become rabid muslims that don't mind killing Americans!
Go figure!

Sonnabend
12-08-2009, 05:08 AM
Funny, because that wasn't what was said and strangely (not for you though) makes no sense in this context.

Naff off, Ronbot.


Stop trying to be some brilliant asshole, it's not you.

Smarter than you. At least I'm not a fawning fan of a pathetic failure like The Snatchpeeper