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megimoo
12-02-2009, 04:14 PM
So many new developments: which story do we pick? Maybe best to summarise, instead. After all, it’s not like you’re going to find much of this reported in the MSM.

1. Australia’s Senate rejects Emissions Trading Scheme for a second time.
Or: so turkeys don’t vote Christmas. Expect to see a lot more of this: politicians starting to become aware their party’s position on AGW is completely out of kilter with the public mood and economic reality. Kevin Rudd’s Emissions Trading Scheme – what Andrew Bolt calls “a $114 billion green tax on everything” – would have wreaked havoc on the coal-dependent Australian economy. That’s why several opposition Liberal frontbenchers resigned rather than vote with the Government on ETS; why Liberal leader Malcolm Turnbull lost his job; and why the Senate voted down the ETS.

2. Danes caught fiddling their carbon credits.
(Hat tip: Philip Stott) Carbon trading is the Emperor’s New Clothes of international finance. It was invented by none other than Ken Lay, whose Enron would currently be one of the prime beneficiaries in the global alternative energy market, if it hadn’t been shown to be (nearly) as fraudulent as the current AGW scam. It is a licence to fleece, cheat and rob. Still, jolly embarrassing for the Danes to get caught red handed, what with their hosting a conference shortly in which the world’s leaders will try, straight-faced, to persuade us that carbon emissions trading is the only viable way of defeating ManBearPig.

3. Hats off to The Daily Express
– the first British newspaper to make the AGW scam its front page story.The piece was inspired by another bravura performance by Professor Ian Plimer, the Aussie geologist who argues that climate change has been going on quite naturally, oblivious of human activity, for the last 4,567 million years.

4. BBC finally gets round to reporting – sort of
– that Climatic Research Unit at University of East Anglia may have been up to no good. It’s true that this report on their website is so hedged with special pleading for the temporarily suspended director Phil Jones the man might have written it himself. But on the BBC Radio 4 Today programme this morning, I did hear the newsreader reporting it as more than just a routine theft story. Which is a start.

5. Legal actions ahoy!
Over the next few weeks, one thing we can be absolutely certain of is concerted efforts by the rich, powerful and influential AGW lobby to squash the Climategate story. We’ve seen this already in the “nothing to see here” response of Dr Rajendra Pachauri, the jet-setting, troll-impersonating railway engineer who runs the IPCC and wants to stop ice being served with water in restaurants. This is why those of us who oppose his scheme to carbon-tax the global economy back to the dark ages must do everything in our power to bring the scandal to a wider audience. One way to do this is law suits.

At Ian Plimer’s lunch talk yesterday, Viscount Monckton talked of at least two in the offing – both by scientists, one British, one Canadian, who intend to pursue the CRU for criminal fraud. Their case, quite simply, is that the scientists implicated in Climategate have gained funding and career advancement by twisting data, hiding evidence, and shutting out dissenters by corrupting the peer-review process. More news on this, as I hear it.

Lord Monckton has written an indispensible summary of the Climategate revelations so far.

6. Watch out Green Dave!
The Independent reports on the growing backlash within the party to Cameron’s libtard-wooing greenery. Turning to the Independent for a balanced report on environmental matters is a bit like consulting Der Sturmer for a sensible, insightful view on the Jewish question. Still, for once, the house journal of eco-loonery seems to have got it right and the point made by Tory backbencher David Davis is well made:

“The ferocious determination to impose hair-shirt policies on the public – taxes on holiday flights, or covering our beautiful countryside with wind turbines that look like props from War of the Worlds – is bound to cause a reaction in any democratic country.”

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100018556/climategate-its-all-unravelling-now/

AmPat
12-02-2009, 05:13 PM
:D Funny visual those Hair shirts.

AlmostThere
12-03-2009, 11:47 PM
India with a population 4 times the size of the U.S. says there is no way they'll sign a binding emission cut agreement.

http://www.reuters.com/article/hotStocksNews/idUSDEB00309720091203

When does this nightmare end???

PoliCon
12-04-2009, 12:01 AM
$10 says Barry still signs at Copenhagen.

Rockntractor
12-04-2009, 12:02 AM
$10 says Barry still signs at Copenhagen.
Congress would have to approve it.

wilbur
12-04-2009, 12:28 AM
How many here can actually summarize the theory of global warming, in their own words, in an accurate manner?

I have seen no evidence that anyone here can do it... till you can, you arent even qualified to begin to hold an opinion on it. I, sure as shit, know Megs can't do it.

Speedy
12-04-2009, 12:40 AM
How many here can actually summarize the theory of global warming, in their own words, in an accurate manner?

I have seen no evidence that anyone here can do it... till you can, you arent even qualified to begin to hold an opinion on it. I, sure as shit, know Megs can't do it.

You know, I would really like to, but there is all of this data missing...

Rockntractor
12-04-2009, 12:43 AM
How many here can actually summarize the theory of global warming, in their own words, in an accurate manner?

I have seen no evidence that anyone here can do it... till you can, you arent even qualified to begin to hold an opinion on it. I, sure as shit, know Megs can't do it.

http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/Talkinshit.jpg?t=1259905394

enslaved1
12-04-2009, 12:57 AM
How many here can actually summarize the theory of global warming, in their own words, in an accurate manner?

I have seen no evidence that anyone here can do it... till you can, you arent even qualified to begin to hold an opinion on it. I, sure as shit, know Megs can't do it.

Sure, evil capitalists and rethugicans have dumped so much hot air into the atmosphere that it threatens all the poor hippies who would have get a job to pay for enough solar panels to run their fans and their record players at the same time. Therefore all industry and non socialist government is evil and it must be taxed to death, along with private jets (when not transporting socialists) and cow farts. :D

Sound about right?

djones520
12-04-2009, 01:33 AM
How many here can actually summarize the theory of global warming, in their own words, in an accurate manner?

I have seen no evidence that anyone here can do it... till you can, you arent even qualified to begin to hold an opinion on it. I, sure as shit, know Megs can't do it.

Lead off then bub.

FlaGator
12-04-2009, 07:19 AM
How many here can actually summarize the theory of global warming, in their own words, in an accurate manner?

I have seen no evidence that anyone here can do it... till you can, you arent even qualified to begin to hold an opinion on it. I, sure as shit, know Megs can't do it.

Remember that when you start talking about faith and other things you know little about but still hold an opinion on.

Sonnabend
12-04-2009, 07:35 AM
How many here can actually summarize the theory of global warming, in their own words, in an accurate manner?"We have created computer models that project 100 years into the future (the fact that they are inaccurate and bullshit within two days being irrelevant) that says "the world is warming"...so we have to tax you heavily, whilst of course doing what we say you should not, flying everywhere, driving everywhere"

"We cannot of course prove any of this, its only a theory, as the only way to be sure is to get a time machine, but YOU MUST BELIEVE."

"Dont ask us for the original data, we destroyed it. We cannot replicate any of our tests or graphs or experiments...but you must BELIEVE"

"We say it is so because of "consensus", please of course disregard the thousands who say otherwise as they are all being paid by the oil companies"

"You will disregard the masses of data that contradicts us as we quickly burn paper and delete emails that show the data we have used is faked, because if you dont believe, then you also deny the Holocaust and the Moon landing"

"We will use every tactic at our disposal to spread panic and fear at will, whilst charging exorbitant fees and charges for every service, like giving a speech at $1300 a pop, you will buy our DVD's asnd books that tell you more of our lies whilst we line our pockets..

Walk whilst we fly in luxury to exotic locations to hold conferences and summits.

Get trains whilst we ride in air conditioned SUV's.

Do not argue or we will destroy you.

Do not dissent or we will smear you mercilessly.

Do as we say , not as we do.

We are the masters and you will do as you are told

Obey

OBEY

...that pretty much covers it.

PoliCon
12-04-2009, 10:18 AM
Congress would have to approve it.

Sure - but that doesn't mean he won't sign.

PoliCon
12-04-2009, 10:21 AM
Global warming according to progressives:


I'm right and you're wrong - neener neener neener. Now give me control of your life.

AlmostThere
12-04-2009, 02:15 PM
When the thousands of volcanoes on this planet promise to never again pump hydrofluoric acid / sulfur dioxide compounds into the atmosphere, I will too.

wilbur
12-04-2009, 02:26 PM
When the thousands of volcanoes on this planet promise to never again pump hydrofluoric acid / sulfur dioxide compounds into the atmosphere, I will too.

The contribution of volcanoes is negligible compared to man made C02 output.

BadCat
12-04-2009, 02:44 PM
The contribution of volcanoes is negligible compared to man made C02 output.

Why don't you quit emitting CO2 if you're so concerned? You can start by holding your breath...forever.

BTW, just because there have been no major volcanic eruptions recently, when there is one, you'll see what an idiotic statement you just made.

Bongo55
12-04-2009, 04:28 PM
The contribution of volcanoes is negligible compared to man made C02 output.

That is such an outright lie. dude you seem to know two things about GW JACK & SHIT.

PoliCon
12-04-2009, 04:28 PM
The contribution of volcanoes is negligible compared to man made C02 output.

Evidence?

FlaGator
12-04-2009, 04:39 PM
The contribution of volcanoes is negligible compared to man made C02 output.

One thing I've been wondering since the Huygens probe landed on Titan. How come the average daily temperature of Titan is about -290 degrees but the atmosphere has more greenhouse gases than Earth. Titan is 98 percent nitrogen and the remaining 2 percent is made up of various greenhouse gases. The Earth, however, is 78 percent nitrogen, 21 percent oxygen and the remaining 1 percent various gases including greenhouse gases. It seems what with an atmosphere composed mostly of greenhouse gases Titan would be a whole lot hotter.

Jfor
12-04-2009, 05:16 PM
The contribution of volcanoes is negligible compared to man made C02 output.

You really are as stupid as you sound.

Speedy
12-04-2009, 06:09 PM
Evidence?

He had reams and reams of evidence, but you see, it got deleted and tossed out. But it was real, take his word for it.

djones520
12-04-2009, 06:15 PM
The contribution of volcanoes is negligible compared to man made C02 output.

Still waiting for you to summarize Global Warming. You've yet to show that you're qualified to discuss this.

AmPat
12-04-2009, 09:42 PM
Still waiting for you to summarize Global Warming. You've yet to show that you're qualified to discuss this.

What the "H" is wrong with you? Don't you realize that his rules only apply to everybody else?:rolleyes:

Rockntractor
12-04-2009, 10:02 PM
The contribution of volcanoes is negligible compared to man made C02 output.
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/willbull.jpg?t=1259982095

wilbur
12-04-2009, 10:40 PM
Evidence?

Check any reputable source (that does not include Rush Limbaugh books) and you'll find they all say similar things.

http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/volcanowatch/2007/07_02_15.html



Gas studies at volcanoes worldwide have helped volcanologists tally up a global volcanic CO2 budget in the same way that nations around the globe have cooperated to determine how much CO2 is released by human activity through the burning of fossil fuels. Our studies show that globally, volcanoes on land and under the sea release a total of about 200 million tonnes of CO2 annually.

This seems like a huge amount of CO2, but a visit to the U.S. Department of Energy's Carbon Dioxide Information Analysis Center (CDIAC) website (http://cdiac.ornl.gov/) helps anyone armed with a handheld calculator and a high school chemistry text put the volcanic CO2 tally into perspective. Because while 200 million tonnes of CO2 is large, the global fossil fuel CO2 emissions for 2003 tipped the scales at 26.8 billion tonnes. Thus, not only does volcanic CO2 not dwarf that of human activity, it actually comprises less than 1 percent of that value.

wilbur
12-04-2009, 10:41 PM
One thing I've been wondering since the Huygens probe landed on Titan. How come the average daily temperature of Titan is about -290 degrees but the atmosphere has more greenhouse gases than Earth. Titan is 98 percent nitrogen and the remaining 2 percent is made up of various greenhouse gases. The Earth, however, is 78 percent nitrogen, 21 percent oxygen and the remaining 1 percent various gases including greenhouse gases. It seems what with an atmosphere composed mostly of greenhouse gases Titan would be a whole lot hotter.

I don't know, but my first guess would be its distance from the sun.

wilbur
12-04-2009, 10:42 PM
That is such an outright lie. dude you seem to know two things about GW JACK & SHIT.

Sorry.... you appear to be as wrong as it gets.

wilbur
12-04-2009, 10:46 PM
Still waiting for you to summarize Global Warming. You've yet to show that you're qualified to discuss this.

I'm the one who issued the challenge. You are a meteorologist arent you? Even if you don't agree with the theory, I'm sure you at least have the knowledge to properly understand it and to characterize it if need be. It doesn't alarm you, the abject incompetence that every single poster here demonstrates on the topic, while pretending to be experts no less? These people actually make decisions based on this catastrophic incompetence.

PoliCon
12-04-2009, 11:00 PM
Check any reputable source (that does not include Rush Limbaugh books) and you'll find they all say similar things.

http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/volcanowatch/2007/07_02_15.html

um - since when is the government a reputable source? lol

Now - how do they come to this figure of annual emissions by volcanoes? Are they averaging them over time? If so how long of a period of time? And why did they chose 2003 for their man made total? This evidence leaves me with lots of questions and no clear proof of anything.

Rockntractor
12-04-2009, 11:04 PM
I'm the one who issued the challenge. You are a meteorologist arent you? Even if you don't agree with the theory, I'm sure you at least have the knowledge to properly understand it and to characterize it if need be. It doesn't alarm you, the abject incompetence that every single poster here demonstrates on the topic, while pretending to be experts no less? These people actually make decisions based on this catastrophic incompetence.
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/bullshit.gif?t=1259985840

FlaGator
12-05-2009, 12:06 AM
I don't know, but my first guess would be its distance from the sun.

Actually that answer is wrong and the reasons for it being wrong are fairly obvious. Even at its distance from the sun is is still receiving enough radiation from the Sun and from Saturn that it should be showing marked increases in temperature if the green house gases where as efficient at trapping heat as global warming scientists state. In fact, Titan should be much warmer than it is.

OK your first guess was wrong, any more ideas?

Sonnabend
12-05-2009, 12:08 AM
I don't know, but my first guess would be its distance from the sun.

And what IS that distance? WITHOUT Google.

And by what name is that distance known?

djones520
12-05-2009, 12:23 AM
I'm the one who issued the challenge. You are a meteorologist arent you? Even if you don't agree with the theory, I'm sure you at least have the knowledge to properly understand it and to characterize it if need be. It doesn't alarm you, the abject incompetence that every single poster here demonstrates on the topic, while pretending to be experts no less? These people actually make decisions based on this catastrophic incompetence.

First off, you did not issue a challenge. You slapped down a blanket statement that if you couldn't explain it, then you shouldn't discuss it. Well get to explaining.

Personally, I feel anyone has the right to talk about it. It's how one learns. Even if everyone has a preconceived notion about what they want to know, it means nothing. They have no power to do anything about it. Unlike those who actually had the power to affect laws and doctrine, and purposefully mislead with their preconceived notions. They are the ones that we should be alarmed about, but you seem most interested in defending.

AmPat
12-05-2009, 12:33 AM
I'm the one who issued the challenge. You are a meteorologist arent you? Even if you don't agree with the theory, I'm sure you at least have the knowledge to properly understand it and to characterize it if need be. It doesn't alarm you, the abject incompetence that every single poster here demonstrates on the topic, while pretending to be experts no less? These people actually make decisions based on this catastrophic incompetence.
Is it your "expert" opinion that only the Great Wilbur Of Oz can understand this?:rolleyes: Does one have to be a climatologist to understand these generalities? If that is true, why should we talk about anything? You have a great deal to say about Christianity yet you make a fool of yourself on this same topic repeatedly. Most posters here humor you in hopes of educating you.

Get over yourself. It does not take a PHD to understand this topic or to see through the utter B.S. of global warming. This is junk science and will be exposed as such over the next few years. You may pretend to be a scientist and support this but it will only blow up in your face.

FlaGator
12-05-2009, 12:37 AM
I'm starting to wonder if wilbur has ever heard the story of the Emperor's New Clothes. It might behoove him to aquaint himself with this little tale.

Rockntractor
12-05-2009, 12:52 AM
I'm starting to wonder if wilbur has ever heard the story of the Emperor's New Clothes. It might behoove him to aquaint himself with this little tale.

Hardcore liberals have a mental disorder. Wilbur may come around after the damage he sees this President cause. Unfortunately by then it may be too late.

Big Guy
12-05-2009, 01:04 AM
The contribution of volcanoes is negligible compared to man made C02 output.

Don't the trees that you hug need the CO2 to live?

So what you are wanting is for all the trees and plants to die? :D

FlaGator
12-05-2009, 01:08 AM
Hardcore liberals have a mental disorder. Wilbur may come around after the damage he sees this President cause. Unfortunately by then it may be too late.

I suspect that its more important to feel that you are right than to actually be right. I suspect that they will never admit they are wrong even when all the damage is done. It will be our fault for screwing with there plans to save the world. How arrogant are they to think that they can fix what is not broken.

djones520
12-05-2009, 01:12 AM
Don't the trees that you hug need the CO2 to live?

So what you are wanting is for all the trees and plants to die? :D

You raise a concern that slays me about the eco-fundies. It's a well accepted hypothesis that civilization as we know it today arose due to the massive increase in green house gasses released by the melting of the glaciers at the end of the last ice age. Atmospheric CO2 levels before then where unable to sustain true agriculture. With the increase of CO2 levels, humans where able to settle down more and grow more and more crops, being able to forsake their hunting and gathering pasts. The new abundance of food led to larger human populations, and eventually civilizations as a whole.

Now today, with such rampant wide spread hunger, etc etc... you'd think that all these enviro nuts would appreciate the increases in CO2 levels. It will allow for more plant growth with more nutrients to be sustained, and help to combat world wide hunger, which is a much more real danger to humans then the Global Warming boogey man.

Rockntractor
12-05-2009, 01:18 AM
I suspect that its more important to feel that you are right than to actually be right. I suspect that they will never admit they are wrong even when all the damage is done. It will be our fault for screwing with there plans to save the world. How arrogant are they to think that they can fix what is not broken.
The leaders that are the authors of Global warming Know it is a scam. they are using this to redistribute wealth and gain power. I am honestly surprised at Wilbur for falling for this and being used this way!

wilbur
12-05-2009, 08:57 AM
Actually that answer is wrong and the reasons for it being wrong are fairly obvious. Even at its distance from the sun is is still receiving enough radiation from the Sun and from Saturn that it should be showing marked increases in temperature if the green house gases where as efficient at trapping heat as global warming scientists state. In fact, Titan should be much warmer than it is.

OK your first guess was wrong, any more ideas?

On what basis do you say this is wrong? Are you actually doing some calculations here to back up your assertion that "it still receives enough radiation from the sun and Saturn"? Your own personal hunch? My guess might very well be wrong, I don't know, but if you have information, lets share it.

But as it is, the distance of a body absolutely affects the intensity and the amount of solar radiation it receives. The amount of time a body will be in the direct path of the radiation will also affect how much it receives. If you doubled the radius of Earth's orbit, it sure would be a hell of a lot colder here, despite our atmosphere's ability to trap radiation.

Wikipedia has this to say:



Titan's surface temperature is about 94 K (−179 °C, or −290 °F). At this temperature water ice does not sublimate or evaporate, so the atmosphere is nearly free of water vapor. The haze in Titan's atmosphere contributes to the moon's anti-greenhouse effect by reflecting sunlight back into space, making its surface significantly colder than its upper atmosphere.[43] The moon receives just about 1 percent of the amount of sunlight Earth gets[44]. Titan's clouds, probably composed of methane, ethane or other simple organics, are scattered and variable, punctuating the overall haze


It looks like Titan as a "nuclear winter" style anti-greenhouse effect as well.

wilbur
12-05-2009, 09:21 AM
um - since when is the government a reputable source? lol

Now - how do they come to this figure of annual emissions by volcanoes? Are they averaging them over time? If so how long of a period of time? And why did they chose 2003 for their man made total? This evidence leaves me with lots of questions and no clear proof of anything.

Were you asking these same probing questions when the reverse claims have been posed to you (ie "volcanoes dwarf human c02 output")? Good on you if so.

I believe estimates of volcanic c02 output come in large part from monitoring stations, posted at the worlds active volcanoes. I'm not sure how they collect data from undersea vents.

PoliCon
12-05-2009, 10:20 AM
Were you asking these same probing questions when the reverse claims have been posed to you (ie "volcanoes dwarf human c02 output")? Good on you if so.

I believe estimates of volcanic c02 output come in large part from monitoring stations, posted at the worlds active volcanoes. I'm not sure how they collect data from undersea vents.

I'm also betting that those measurements do not include any major eruptions - and prolly ignore particulate matter as well.

BadCat
12-05-2009, 10:22 AM
I'm also betting that those measurements do not include any major eruptions - and prolly ignore particulate matter as well.

Gasboy probably thinks that the volcanoes will never erupt again.
He does not understand the cyclical nature of nature.

wilbur
12-05-2009, 11:36 AM
Gasboy probably thinks that the volcanoes will never erupt again.
He does not understand the cyclical nature of nature.


http://www.frankodwyer.com/blog/imgs/volcanoes_daily_co2.jpg

Note: The values for Toba and Helens above are listed during eruptions. Also note that catastrophic eruptions come with their own C02 reducing feedback mechanisms.... C02 doesnt stick around as long in a cooler climate, and the ash cover ends up reflecting solar radiation back into space. So eruptions are followed by a "nuclear winter" that ends up reducing the C02 that sticks around, as far as I know. Even if it didnt, we still dwarf all volcanic activity each day/year by orders of magnitude - eruptions or no eruptions.

Is it sinking in yet that you really shouldnt trust people like Rush or movies like the "Great Global Warming Swindle" any more than you trust Al Gore or an "Inconvenient Truth"?


BTW... Toba was a supervolcano.

SarasotaRepub
12-05-2009, 11:46 AM
Ya know Wilbur, I have a very simple question for you.

Why should we believe any of these numbers??

They are at best, estimates. Estimates given by people with an agenda.

Esitmates that I'd bet are fudged. Did Joe Scientist go weigh
all the CO2 one day? Exactly how did he do that??? :confused:

wilbur
12-05-2009, 11:53 AM
Ya know Wilbur, I have a very simple question for you.

Why should we believe any of these numbers??

They are at best, estimates. Estimates given by people with an agenda.

Esitmates that I'd bet are fudged. Did Joe Scientist go weigh
all the CO2 one day? Exactly how did he do that??? :confused:

So don't.... go investigate for yourself.

But I hope you reserve the same skepticism, even when information appears to confirm your bias.

SarasotaRepub
12-05-2009, 12:24 PM
There's always a margin of error in any estimation.. but the margin of error here you are proposing is astronomically absurd.

I'm not "proposing" anything, I'm simply questioning why any of us would believe these numbers. How are they coming up with them? Some calcs for sure but you know the old saying...garbage in/garbage out.

I find it amusing that the Gore crowd is scrambling. Wilbur, these frauds got caught.
You still want us to believe these "scientists" even after it's clear to anyone with half a brain they have an agenda to keep GW alive. At this point they can't admit they are wrong, if they did that, the gravy train would dry up in a nano second.

It'll be interesting to see if the current cooling trend that all the "scientists" say is just a "blip" will continue. These guys are saying it won't last. How the fuck do they know
and WTF are they basing it on?? I think it's a Hope and a Prayer.

There are massive egos involved here and they brought these problems on themselves by not being honest and counting on the MSM to never question them. After all, they're the Scientists and they know!!!!

;)

BadCat
12-05-2009, 12:30 PM
http://www.frankodwyer.com/blog/imgs/volcanoes_daily_co2.jpg

Note: The values for Toba and Helens above are listed during eruptions. Also note that catastrophic eruptions come with their own C02 reducing feedback mechanisms.... C02 doesnt stick around as long in a cooler climate, and the ash cover ends up reflecting solar radiation back into space. So eruptions are followed by a "nuclear winter" that ends up reducing the C02 that sticks around, as far as I know. Even if it didnt, we still dwarf all volcanic activity each day/year by orders of magnitude - eruptions or no eruptions.

Is it sinking in yet that you really shouldnt trust people like Rush or movies like the "Great Global Warming Swindle" any more than you trust Al Gore or an "Inconvenient Truth"?


BTW... Toba was a supervolcano.

Go back and study the Ordovician period, then get back to me about volcanoes.

wilbur
12-05-2009, 12:34 PM
I'm not "proposing" anything, I'm simply questioning why any of us would believe these numbers. How are they coming up with them? Some calcs for sure but you know the old saying...garbage in/garbage out.

I find it amusing that the Gore crowd is scrambling. Wilbur, these frauds got caught.
You still want us to believe these "scientists" even after it's clear to anyone with half a brain they have an agenda to keep GW alive. At this point they can't admit they are wrong, if they did that, the gravy train would dry up in a nano second.

It'll be interesting to see if the current cooling trend that all the "scientists" say is just a "blip" will continue. These guys are saying it won't last. How the fuck do they know
and WTF are they basing it on?? I think it's a Hope and a Prayer.

There are massive egos involved here and they brought these problems on themselves by not being honest and counting on the MSM to never question them. After all, they're the Scientists and they know!!!!

;)

Yet there hasnt been a single confirmed (or even well evidenced) instance of fraudulent data manipulation from those emails, SR... I even called FlaGator on it in another thread, and he couldnt show a thing, and weakly claimed "I'll let the experts tell me what to do". Isnt this the same kind of thing that I get berated for? Trusting those with an agenda?

So really, what we have is little more than a right wing media/blogosophere that's done nothing but shout "fraud" for days, while their readers just believe them. But yea.. I'm the gullible one...

Maybe further investigation will turn something up, I don't know. But right now, there isnt a single thing. So no... no "frauds" have been caught.

BadCat
12-05-2009, 12:45 PM
Sure looks like fraud to a normal person.

Looks like your religion is a sham, Wilbur.

SarasotaRepub
12-05-2009, 12:48 PM
Yet there hasnt been a single confirmed (or even well evidenced) instance of fraudulent data manipulation from those emails, SR... I even called FlaGator on it in another thread, and he couldnt show a thing, and weakly claimed "I'll let the experts tell me what to do". Isnt this the same kind of thing that I get berated for? Trusting those with an agenda?

So really, what we have is little more than a right wing media/blogosophere that's done nothing but shout "fraud" for days, while their readers just believe them. But yea.. I'm the gullible one...

Maybe further investigation will turn something up, I don't know. But right now, there isnt a single thing. So no... no "frauds" have been caught.

I'm not saying you're gullible, just far too trusting. There is far too much smoke here for it to be nothing. We'll see and I'm open to the truth no matter what it shows. The
AGW crowd is counting on people like you to keep the light off them, so keep it up. :p:D

AmPat
12-05-2009, 12:49 PM
Yet there hasnt been a single confirmed (or even well evidenced) instance of fraudulent data manipulation from those emails, SR... I even called FlaGator on it in another thread, and he couldnt show a thing, and weakly claimed "I'll let the experts tell me what to do". Isnt this the same kind of thing that I get berated for? Trusting those with an agenda?

So really, what we have is little more than a right wing media/blogosophere that's done nothing but shout "fraud" for days, while their readers just believe them. But yea.. I'm the gullible one...

Maybe further investigation will turn something up, I don't know. But right now, there isnt a single thing. So no... no "frauds" have been caught.

Then why is Gore so afraid to answer questions? Why does he dodge the GW events now? Why are you so sold on this crap? Do you not have a single cell in you that says, "Global Warming is a fraud?"

You say:
So really, what we have is little more than a right wing media/blogosophere that's done nothing but shout "fraud" for days, while their readers just believe them. But yea.. I'm the gullible one...I say the same thing regarding you GW believers. In fact, allow me to restate your words; So really, what we have is little more than a left wing media/blogosophere that's done nothing but shout "GW" for days, while the "scientists" scream GLOBAL WARMING< WE"RE DOOMED! Meanwhile liberal readers just believe them. But yea.. I'm the gullible one...:rolleyes:

FlaGator
12-05-2009, 01:49 PM
On what basis do you say this is wrong? Are you actually doing some calculations here to back up your assertion that "it still receives enough radiation from the sun and Saturn"? Your own personal hunch? My guess might very well be wrong, I don't know, but if you have information, lets share it.

But as it is, the distance of a body absolutely affects the intensity and the amount of solar radiation it receives. The amount of time a body will be in the direct path of the radiation will also affect how much it receives. If you doubled the radius of Earth's orbit, it sure would be a hell of a lot colder here, despite our atmosphere's ability to trap radiation.

Wikipedia has this to say:



It looks like Titan as a "nuclear winter" style anti-greenhouse effect as well.

I am not ignoring you, I am trying to search for the article I read. I was about a year ago but I can't recall which site I read it. I thought it was badastronomy.com but I couldn't find it.

FlaGator
12-05-2009, 01:57 PM
Yet there hasnt been a single confirmed (or even well evidenced) instance of fraudulent data manipulation from those emails, SR... I even called FlaGator on it in another thread, and he couldnt show a thing, and weakly claimed "I'll let the experts tell me what to do". Isnt this the same kind of thing that I get berated for? Trusting those with an agenda?

<snip>
What is week about admitting that my forte isn't unraveling the mathematics of Global warming and deferring to those who know better. Unlike you when you speak of things Christian and pretend that you understand more than you do and make a fool out of yourself I do not wish to do that. I can, however, read the emails that were exposed and recognize a conspiracy to skew evidence to one side of a debate or another. Whether AWG is real or not has no impact on the fact that a conspiracy to mislead has taken place amongst the AWG researchers. You refusal to accept this or even acknowledge the possibility of it is what your getting berated for.

Sonnabend
12-05-2009, 03:50 PM
But as it is, the distance of a body absolutely affects the intensity and the amount of solar radiation it receives.

And what IS that distance? WITHOUT Google.

And by what name is that distance known?

wilbur
12-06-2009, 03:00 PM
And what IS that distance? WITHOUT Google.

And by what name is that distance known?

I believe the units you are asking about are au's… I wouldn't know what Titan's distance is, without looking it up. I do know that the radius of its orbit is many many times that of Earth's.

Whether I can regurgitate such trivia off the top of my head is irrelevant to the concept regarding the intensity of solar radiation and its intensity over distance.

I also made it pretty clear that any answer I would be giving was a best guess… compare and contrast with the laughable intellectual hubris of those who couldn't tell you the first thing about global warming, yet shout at the top of their lungs, with the kind of absolute certainty only blithering idiots are capable of, over and over how its a fraud and a hoax. Yet when asked, they can't even produce a single accurate representation of the most general concept of the theory or accurately portray many of its implications or predictions.

Big Guy
12-06-2009, 03:25 PM
I believe the units you are asking about are au's… I wouldn't know what Titan's distance is, without looking it up. I do know that the radius of its orbit is many many times that of Earth's.

Whether I can regurgitate such trivia off the top of my head is irrelevant to the concept regarding the intensity of solar radiation and its intensity over distance.

I also made it pretty clear that any answer I would be giving was a best guess… compare and contrast with the laughable intellectual hubris of those who couldn't tell you the first thing about global warming, yet shout at the top of their lungs, with the kind of absolute certainty only blithering idiots are capable of, over and over how its a fraud and a hoax. Yet when asked, they can't even produce a single accurate representation of the most general concept of the theory or accurately portray many of its implications or predictions.

I won't pretend to be all knowledgeable of all things global warming, UNLIKE YOU.

But I will make a prediction;

I perdict that Up-State New York will experience several feet of "Global Warming" this winter, Tennessee will experience several inches of "Global Warming" and the Bahamas will be warm this winter.:D

JB
12-06-2009, 03:46 PM
And what IS that distance? WITHOUT Google.

And by what name is that distance known?OT: It's been said Einstein did not know the speed of light off the top of his head. His students/colleagues would ask him "how can you not know the speed of light?" He would answer "why should I fill my head with trivial things that I can look up in 5 minutes."

Back on topic: Global warming is a myth.

AmPat
12-06-2009, 03:57 PM
Titans are from Tennessee, that is all.:cool: