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LogansPapa
07-29-2008, 10:30 AM
By ROBERT PEAR and DAVID M. HERSZENHORN

Published: July 29, 2008

WASHINGTON — The White House predicted Monday that President Bush would leave a record $482 billion deficit to his successor, a sobering turnabout in the nation’s fiscal condition from 2001, when Mr.
Bush took office after three consecutive years of budget surpluses.

The worst may be yet to come. The deficit announced by Jim Nussle, the White House budget director, does not reflect the full cost of military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, the potential $50 billion cost of another economic stimulus package, or the possibility of steeper losses in tax revenues if individual income or corporate profits decline.

The new deficit numbers also do not account for any drains on the national treasury that might result from further declines in the housing market.

The White House forecast was prepared before passage of the huge housing assistance package that Mr. Bush has promised to sign. That legislation would put taxpayer money at risk in numerous ways, especially if housing prices continue to decline.

Mr. Nussle predicted Monday that the deficit would more than double in the current 2008 fiscal year — to $389 billion, from $162 billion in 2007 — before shooting up to $482 billion in the 2009 fiscal year, which begins in about two months.

The deficit projected for 2009 would be the largest in absolute terms, easily surpassing the record of $413 billion in 2004. The White House and many economists prefer to measure the deficit as a share of the economy. The projected 2009 deficit would be 3.3 percent of the economy. That is the largest share since 2004, but well below the percentages recorded in the 1980s and early 1990s. In 1983, the deficit was 6 percent of the overall economy.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/29/washington/29budget.html?em&ex=1217476800&en=71db57acf742fc11&ei=5087%0A

linda22003
07-29-2008, 11:41 AM
I must be getting really old. I can remember back to when it wasn't the Republicans who were the party of drunken-sailor style spending. :cool:

FeebMaster
07-29-2008, 11:53 AM
I must be getting really old. I can remember back to when it wasn't the Republicans who were the party of drunken-sailor style spending. :cool:

No one is that old.

linda22003
07-29-2008, 11:54 AM
Hey! I remember presidents before Reagan.

Rebel Yell
07-29-2008, 11:56 AM
I must be getting really old. I can remember back to when it wasn't the Republicans who were the party of drunken-sailor style spending. :cool:

Wait until the Prophet's Socialized health care, oil, and life in general kicks in. The republicans are bad enough, now. Imagine if the dems get in control.

FeebMaster
07-29-2008, 12:03 PM
Hey! I remember presidents before Reagan.

They liked to spend too.



Wait until the Prophet's Socialized health care, oil, and life in general kicks in. The republicans are bad enough, now. Imagine if the dems get in control.

lol. You guys need some new material.

LogansPapa
07-29-2008, 12:04 PM
Wait until the Prophet's Socialized health care, oil, and life in general kicks in. The republicans are bad enough, now. Imagine if the dems get in control.

Which is really the only platform McCain can sucessfully run on. This half-a-trillion dollar fiasco will undoubtedly become GWB’s only lasting legacy for future generations.

Eyelids
07-29-2008, 12:27 PM
This is pretty much all GWB's fault.

Molon Labe
07-29-2008, 12:32 PM
This is pretty much all GWB's fault.

Get a clue will you. He's about 1/10 the problem. Sure his policies have been some crap...but do you remember who controls the purse strings in this country? The gang of 535 has much to answer for.

Rebel Yell
07-29-2008, 12:34 PM
They liked to spend too.




lol. You guys need some new material.

Some people need to be beaten over the head with the truth. Not referring to you, Linda.:D
95% of all politicians are crooks in one way or the other. The other 5% just haven't been there long enough.

Molon Labe
07-29-2008, 12:40 PM
Some people need to be beaten over the head with the truth. Not referring to you, Linda.:D
95% of all politicians are crooks in one way or the other. The other 5% just haven't been there long enough.

Uh huh...I agree with that. No one can tell me the best are in Washington.

Troll
07-29-2008, 12:54 PM
Figures like this are why part of me is actually hoping for Obama to take the White House.

Right now, all it takes to mobilize the "conservatives" in this country is for the RNC to wag someone like Hillary or Obama in front of them, then all of a sudden, it's "D'liberals! D'democrats! D'newyorktimes!", and in a show of pseudo-patriotism, we happily wait in line to vote for a liberal with an -R beside his name.

Maybe President Obama will be a good thing for this country. Maybe the ma and pa Republicans will actually start holding their representatives accountable for the amount of money they waste. Maybe we'll get another class of '94, and maybe this time, the voters will actually hold them to their promises. Maybe instead of being fooled by the unipartisan guise of two parties, conservatives will be mobilized by their principles instead of the letters 'D' and 'R'.

gator
07-29-2008, 04:48 PM
The NeoCons will agree to spend as much money as the Liberals.

Bush and his big spending budgets have destroyed the Republican Party by losing all credibility to the Conservatives.

McCain will be no differenent. If we are lucky the dficit under McCain will be "only" a third of a trillion dollars instead of a half trillion. Of course under Obama it will be worse and on top of that he taxes the hell out of us.

We are pretty well screwed either way. At least with McCain you get a drop of K&Y as it is going in.

What I don't understand is that the friggin government has a 3 trillion dollar budget and still runs a deficit. You would think that they could come up with a way to reduce spending by the amount of the deficit and still have an enormus Federal government. Greedy bastards.

This is what happens when you give less than 500 yepeole the keys to the largest stach of cash in the world. They get stupid and spend more than they take in. Friggin morons. Of course we are morons for voting them in.

Eyelids
07-29-2008, 04:51 PM
Get a clue will you. He's about 1/10 the problem. Sure his policies have been some crap...but do you remember who controls the purse strings in this country? The gang of 535 has much to answer for.

Well this is his war, tax cuts and rampant spending. Sure Congress should've had some foresight but his name is attached to all of these disastrous policies.

gator
07-29-2008, 04:54 PM
Get a clue will you. He's about 1/10 the problem. Sure his policies have been some crap...but do you remember who controls the purse strings in this country? The gang of 535 has much to answer for.

He signs the budget bills.

Until he uses his veto I would say he is as much a part of the problem as anyone else.

Eyelids
07-29-2008, 04:54 PM
Figures like this are why part of me is actually hoping for Obama to take the White House.

Right now, all it takes to mobilize the "conservatives" in this country is for the RNC to wag someone like Hillary or Obama in front of them, then all of a sudden, it's "D'liberals! D'democrats! D'newyorktimes!", and in a show of pseudo-patriotism, we happily wait in line to vote for a liberal with an -R beside his name.

Maybe President Obama will be a good thing for this country. Maybe the ma and pa Republicans will actually start holding their representatives accountable for the amount of money they waste. Maybe we'll get another class of '94, and maybe this time, the voters will actually hold them to their promises. Maybe instead of being fooled by the unipartisan guise of two parties, conservatives will be mobilized by their principles instead of the letters 'D' and 'R'.

When things like Rev. Wright, illegitimate babies, Monica Lewinsky, abortion and gay marriage are turned into issues this is what you get. If you really feel this way I respect the hell out of you, but you have to back it up with actions and staying away from tabloid politics.

Note: not necessarily directed at troll, but towards those entrenched on partisan battle lines.

Molon Labe
07-29-2008, 04:56 PM
Well this is his war, tax cuts and rampant spending. Sure Congress should've had some foresight but his name is attached to all of these disastrous policies.

Then you're just a Bush basher...nothing more.
I've got my fair share of criticism for him, but if you can't be totally honest as to all involved who are responsible for the mess, then you deserve the label "partisan hack".
Let's not forget which branch has warmaking power and has continued to turn a blind eye to the executives warmongering and nationbuilding. Hint: They now control congress.

Eyelids
07-29-2008, 04:59 PM
Congress should have enacted the War Powers Act of 1972 and let it go before the Surpreme Court... they didnt and now were stuck with this. But for something that has been a colossal failure with the military the Commander in Chief gets the most blame. Just like he gets the most credit if we succeed.

LogansPapa
07-29-2008, 05:00 PM
The Fear Button got pushed - a lot - and still isn’t worn out. McCain’s entire campaign is centered on it and he’s hoping the button isn’t quite done yet, so he can slide into 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. The Iraq War will wind down and we’ll have a 100,000 of our best in Eastern Afghanistan before long, where the real estate goes from 1,000 to 10,000 feet in elevation rapidly.

A shooting war - John’s greatest election friend - will stay on the front burner at least through his first term.

gator
07-29-2008, 05:43 PM
The Fear Button got pushed - a lot - and still isn’t worn out. McCain’s entire campaign is centered on it and he’s hoping the button isn’t quite done yet, so he can slide into 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. The Iraq War will wind down and we’ll have a 100,000 of our best in Eastern Afghanistan before long, where the real estate goes from 1,000 to 10,000 feet in elevation rapidly.

A shooting war - John’s greatest election friend - will stay on the front burner at least through his first term.


McCain is a NeoCon's wet dream.

McCain will continue the Perpetual War and we will continue to go bankrupt. His stupidity will ensure many more Americans will die and our spending and budget deficits will continue to be be enormus to pay for it. Expect "Taps" to be heard by many more families.

Obama will be weak and because of that will cause the Pepetual War to continue at a new level.

Neither candidate has any answers to anything except more of the same.

We are pretty well screwed no matter who wins.

LogansPapa
07-29-2008, 05:50 PM
McCain is a NeoCon's wet dream.

McCain will continue the Perpetual War and we will continue to go bankrupt. His stupidity will ensure many more Americans will die and our spending and budget deficits will continue to be be enormus to pay for it. Expect "Taps" to be heard by many more families.

Then McCain will pull it off strictly because of his military background. If and when his team really begins to expose Obama’s "I’ve got to increase taxes" reality - John can simply say: "Stay the course." And another 70 billion will fall out of the Congressional till. Being the planet’s policeman is an expensive profession.

MrsSmith
07-29-2008, 06:00 PM
If only Bin Laden hadn't been successful on 9/11...then we could have gone right on with the social spending that is breaking our economy and wouldn't have had to "waste" so much on the "useless" WOT. Maybe we could have actually won the WOP (war on poverty) someday. :rolleyes:

Now, how many billions have we spent on the liberal's war again? :rolleyes:

LogansPapa
07-29-2008, 06:04 PM
Now, how many billions have we spent on the liberal's war again? :rolleyes:

Haven't we gone right on with the social give-away programs anyway - ala New Orleans?:confused:

Eyelids
07-29-2008, 06:04 PM
What the hell is this woman talking about?

Molon Labe
07-29-2008, 06:36 PM
Congress should have enacted the War Powers Act of 1972 and let it go before the Surpreme Court... they didnt and now were stuck with this. But for something that has been a colossal failure with the military the Commander in Chief gets the most blame. Just like he gets the most credit if we succeed.

No. congress should take seriously their constitutional obligation to choose when and whom we go to war with...Rather they default to the Imperial presidency since Korea. Thus... no blood on their hands.

Eyelids
07-29-2008, 06:52 PM
.... thats what the War Powers act is. DERPA

Goldwater
07-29-2008, 07:14 PM
Fiscal conservatism baby!

Molon Labe
07-29-2008, 07:19 PM
.... thats what the War Powers act is. DERPA

Let me say this slowly....There should be no need for the WPA.
There should never be the need for a law to tell you you have a law.

Are you trying to say Durka Durka? Cause I'm not hip to what your speaking. Old fart that I am you know.

noonwitch
07-30-2008, 08:56 AM
I must be getting really old. I can remember back to when it wasn't the Republicans who were the party of drunken-sailor style spending. :cool:


I'm so old I remember liberal republicans-republicans to the left of Rudy and Arnold.

gator
07-30-2008, 10:01 AM
I'm so old I remember liberal republicans-republicans to the left of Rudy and Arnold.


It seems to me that all Republicans are liberals today. If not actually liberal then at least willing to do liberal things.

The main reason they are failing as a party today is because they are trying to out liberal the Democrats.

I think that Bush delivered on much of what Gore and Kerry promised; more spending, more deficits, pandering to the environmental wackos, not sealing the border, nation building, entitlement programs, etc.

McCain will do much the same.

LogansPapa
07-30-2008, 10:21 AM
The main reason they are failing as a party today is because they are trying to out liberal the Democrats.

Does this prove the point that ‘a crying baby will eventually be coddled’, or are Republicans simply falling for the popularity contest that the Democrats have revelled in since FDR?

:confused:

Rebel Yell
07-30-2008, 10:34 AM
How much of that deficit has been spent on services for Illegals? Let's not forget our friends coming across the border. That is top priority in my book. Of course, we don't have a candidate who will do a damned thing about it. Personally, I think it's time for the individual states to take back the rights that were stolen away around 150 yrs ago. If California wants the illegals, let them have 'em and let 'em pay for them.

Back to the topic, there's a hell of alot more than the war causing this deficit. I understand that the war is costing the nation lot's of money. I know it's the easiest to point at, but what about the rest of it?

FeebMaster
07-30-2008, 10:50 AM
How much of that deficit has been spent on services for Illegals? Let's not forget our friends coming across the border. That is top priority in my book. Of course, we don't have a candidate who will do a damned thing about it.

A pittance next to the hundreds of billions being spent on citizens.



Personally, I think it's time for the individual states to take back the rights that were stolen away around 150 yrs ago. If California wants the illegals, let them have 'em and let 'em pay for them.

I wonder what would happen if a state decided to secede, what the reaction would be.



Back to the topic, there's a hell of alot more than the war causing this deficit. I understand that the war is costing the nation lot's of money. I know it's the easiest to point at, but what about the rest of it?

What about it? Republicans love their socialism just as much as the Democrats love theirs.

Rebel Yell
07-30-2008, 10:58 AM
A pittance next to the hundreds of billions being spent on citizens.

I say cut services to leeches who just happen to be born here, I wouldn't call them citizens. But start with the illegals. If they get sick or hungry enough, they'll go home.



I wonder what would happen if a state decided to secede, what the reaction would be.

What was the reaction to the last resistance to an overbearing government? Scratch that, ther one before that.:D


What about it? Republicans love their socialism just as much as the Democrats love theirs.

There's not a hell of alot of difference between the two, I know that. The politicians are just playing Risk with the nation. It's all a power grab.

FeebMaster
07-30-2008, 11:14 AM
I say cut services to leeches who just happen to be born here, I wouldn't call them citizens. But start with the illegals. If they get sick or hungry enough, they'll go home.

I say cut services to everyone.



What was the reaction to the last resistance to an overbearing government? Scratch that, ther one before that.:D

Heh. Oh I know what the federal reaction would be. I was thinking more along the lines of everyone else. There was a thread on a Zogby poll that said something like 20% of the respondents thought a state had the right to peaceably secede, but I wonder how many of those would be screeching for the feds to crush all resistance if it actually happened.



There's not a hell of alot of difference between the two, I know that. The politicians are just playing Risk with the nation. It's all a power grab.

More like Monopoly, only they can print their own money.

LogansPapa
07-30-2008, 11:36 AM
A pittance next to the hundreds of billions being spent on citizens.

I say cut services to leeches who just happen to be born here, I wouldn't call them citizens. But start with the illegals. If they get sick or hungry enough, they'll go home.

Except that my state’s Republican business owners have made vast fortunes on these folks (and would all be deeply fined and in prison now if the law was enforced as written) and just want them to remain in the shadows, until all the noise dies down, without ever really ‘going home.’

:rolleyes:

Molon Labe
07-30-2008, 12:26 PM
I say cut services to everyone.

Yes including all illegal immigrants and any other non U.S. citizen...that includes all foreign aid.
If you want to honestly assess government spending you have to look at the whole picture foreign and domestic. There is just no denying that 7 years of perpetual war is a drain on the economy and the tax payer.


Over 87 billion appropriated just in 2003 for rebuilding Iraq and Afghanistan. That number has increased exponentially since then.

And why do we continue to give billions of dollars to dependant dictators in Africa and the middle east who oversee nothing resembling a Democracy. Many of these idiots preside over a Kleptocracy?
- about 4 billion in aid to Africa in 2006.

498 billion dollars for the war effort in Iraq. It's projected to cost around 600 billion in the next year.
Coupled with the costs of maintaining 61 major military installations worldwide.

The budget for 2008 doesn't even reflect this money we are borrowing to pay for all of this, so the 16 percent on defense and social security and welfare are very misleading.
The numbers for domestic spending on welfare and illegals do not even remotely resemble what we maintain in foreign aid and perpetual war.

LogansPapa
07-30-2008, 01:18 PM
And why do we continue to give billions of dollars to dependant dictators in Africa and the middle east who oversee nothing resembling a Democracy. Many of these idiots preside over a Kleptocracy?

- about 4 billion in aid to Africa in 2006.



Gee - for a whole continent, that’s fairly cheap (about 35%) when compared with a certain "strategic M/E country.";)