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FlaGator
01-17-2010, 01:44 PM
Interesting story


Scientists have discovered the earliest known Hebrew writing - an inscription dating from the 10th century B.C., during the period of King David's reign.
The breakthrough could mean that portions of the Bible were written centuries earlier than previously thought. (The Bible's Old Testament is thought to have been first written down in an ancient form of Hebrew.)
Until now, many scholars have held that the Hebrew Bible originated (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/livescience/sc_livescience/storytext/biblepossiblywrittencenturiesearliertextsuggests/34742032/SIG=122ejt34i/*http://www.livescience.com/history/071211-fundamental-birth.html) in the 6th century B.C., because Hebrew writing was thought to stretch back no further. But the newly deciphered Hebrew text is about four centuries older, scientists announced this month.
"It indicates that the Kingdom of Israel already existed in the 10th century BCE and that at least some of the biblical texts (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/livescience/sc_livescience/storytext/biblepossiblywrittencenturiesearliertextsuggests/34742032/SIG=11u216lne/*http://www.livescience.com/history/071108-queen-jezebel.html) were written hundreds of years before the dates presented in current research," said Gershon Galil, a professor of Biblical Studies at the University of Haifa in Israel, who deciphered the ancient text.
BCE stands for "before common era," and is equivalent to B.C., or before Christ.
The writing was discovered more than a year ago on a pottery shard dug up during excavations at Khirbet Qeiyafa, near Israel's Elah valley. The excavations were carried out by archaeologist Yosef Garfinkel of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. At first, scientists could not tell if the writing was Hebrew or some other local language.
Finally, Galil was able to decipher the text. He identified words particular to the Hebrew language and content specific to Hebrew culture to prove that the writing was, in fact, Hebrew.


The whole story is here (http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20100115/sc_livescience/biblepossiblywrittencenturiesearliertextsuggests)

djones520
01-17-2010, 01:46 PM
Neat.

Bubba Dawg
01-17-2010, 02:55 PM
Interesting.

Interesting how much of the OT deals with the poor and the stranger and the widow, etc.

marv
01-17-2010, 04:41 PM
As an atheist, I prefer history, so I do my best to avoid religous threads. But FWIW, the Torah was written about 1800 BC.

djones520
01-17-2010, 04:46 PM
As an atheist, I prefer history, so I do my best to avoid religous threads. But FWIW, the Torah was written about 1800 BC.

Where do you get that number from? This dates it around 1000BCE.

enslaved1
01-17-2010, 08:34 PM
I've got one book (still not sure if I agree with it or not) that puts forth a theory that Genesis was a collection of books actually written by Adam and the other people of the time and passed down over the centuries to Moses, who collected them into Genesis. Haven't read it for a while to give more details, and it is a stretch, but an interesting theory nevertheless.

PoliCon
01-17-2010, 08:41 PM
Interesting.

Interesting how much of the OT deals with the poor and the stranger and the widow, etc.

The OT is a blueprint for how to have an effective and civil society.

CaughtintheMiddle1990
01-17-2010, 09:19 PM
The OT is a blueprint for how to have an effective and civil society.

Yes. It truly is.

Exodus 21:15-17 (Hit your parents, kidnap someone, or even swear at your parents, and you must die)

''Anyone who attacks his father or his mother must be put to death. Anyone who kidnaps another and either sells him or still has him when he is caught must be put to death. Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.''

Exodus 21:23-25 (Basic revenge mentality outlined)

''But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise''

Exodus 22:18-20 (The death penalty for bestiality (which should be treated through counselling rather than death), and the victimless crimes of sorcery and worshipping other gods)

''Do not allow a sorceress to live. Anyone who has sexual relations with an animal must be put to death. Whoever sacrifices to any god other than the LORD must be destroyed.''

Exodus 31:15 (Commit the victimless crime of working on Sunday and you must die)

''For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death.''

Leviticus 20:9 (And people wonder why parents were such harsh disciplinarians back in the puritan "Good Old Days" of strong religion).

''If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death.''

Leviticus 20:10 (Kill all adulterers. It's bad to cheat on your spouse, but is it really so bad that it deserves the death penalty?)

''If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.''

Leviticus 20:27 (I'm not a big fan of those tarot-card readers and psychic hot-lines myself, but the death penalty is a bit severe, don't you think?)

''A man or woman who is a medium or spiritist among you must be put to death.''

Civil society, indeed.

Rockntractor
01-17-2010, 09:22 PM
Yes. It truly is.

Exodus 21:15-17 (Hit your parents, kidnap someone, or even swear at your parents, and you must die)

''Anyone who attacks his father or his mother must be put to death. Anyone who kidnaps another and either sells him or still has him when he is caught must be put to death. Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.''

Exodus 21:23-25 (Basic revenge mentality outlined)

''But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise''

Exodus 22:18-20 (The death penalty for bestiality (which should be treated through counselling rather than death), and the victimless crimes of sorcery and worshipping other gods)

''Do not allow a sorceress to live. Anyone who has sexual relations with an animal must be put to death. Whoever sacrifices to any god other than the LORD must be destroyed.''

Exodus 31:15 (Commit the victimless crime of working on Sunday and you must die)

''For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death.''

Leviticus 20:9 (And people wonder why parents were such harsh disciplinarians back in the puritan "Good Old Days" of strong religion).

''If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death.''

Leviticus 20:10 (Kill all adulterers. It's bad to cheat on your spouse, but is it really so bad that it deserves the death penalty?)

''If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.''

Leviticus 20:27 (I'm not a big fan of those tarot-card readers and psychic hot-lines myself, but the death penalty is a bit severe, don't you think?)

''A man or woman who is a medium or spiritist among you must be put to death.''

Civil society, indeed.

I'm sure your parents considered execution often!:rolleyes:

CaughtintheMiddle1990
01-17-2010, 09:26 PM
The OT is a blueprint for how to have an effective and civil society.


I'm sure your parents considered execution often!:rolleyes:

You post a reply that, while being witty, lacks any substance. Not that I expected much more, though.

Jfor
01-17-2010, 09:49 PM
You post a reply that, while being witty, lacks any substance. Not that I expected much more, though.

And you post a reply that is nothing but pure anti-Christian hate.

Rockntractor
01-17-2010, 09:49 PM
You post a reply that, while being witty, lacks any substance. Not that I expected much more, though.
So you want me to get in a long debate about rules and statutes that haven't been in effect for thousands of years, why? There are people that adhere to sharia law today, why don't you worry about them son?

CaughtintheMiddle1990
01-17-2010, 10:12 PM
So you want me to get in a long debate about rules and statutes that haven't been in effect for thousands of years, why? There are people that adhere to sharia law today, why don't you worry about them son?

The post I responded to says the OT is the blueprint for a civil society. I reacted to that by showing commands/laws in the OT which I would say are contradictory to having a civil society. As far as being in effect, What Christians refer to as the OT is one of the main religious books for the Jewish people--who as far as I am currently aware, still regard the "OT" as a key source for their religion and number 14 million. Christians argue that the laws in the OT don't apply to them (Christians) because of the teachings and New Covenant made with God through Jesus. Which is fine. But Jews don't believe there is a "New Covenant" and still await the Messiah, so therefore the rules of the OT, yes including the less civil ones, still apply to them.

It's not like we're talking a book of Babylonian mythos which isn't followed by anyone anymore.
What does Sharia law have to do with it? Why the deflection? I have never argued in favor of Sharia Law and regard it much the same as I regard OT law--outmoded, violent, hateful bile.

Rockntractor
01-17-2010, 10:20 PM
The post I responded to says the OT is the blueprint for a civil society. I reacted to that by showing commands/laws in the OT which I would say are contradictory to having a civil society. As far as being in effect, What Christians refer to as the OT is one of the main religious books for the Jewish people--who as far as I am currently aware, still regard the "OT" as a key source for their religion and number 14 million. It's not like we're talking a book of Babylonian mythos which isn't followed by anyone anymore.
What does Sharia law have to do with it? Why the deflection?
Policon said it and you directed your comment toward me. The laws that the Israelites obeyed were relivant for their time but not now. As far as disobedient children being put to death, go out at age 16 and kill people and you stand a good chance of being executed in many states today. As to why the deflection people like you constantly attack Christians for things way back in history that are no longer relevant but they seem to give Muslims a free pass most of the time for barbaric practices they have to this day.

PoliCon
01-18-2010, 12:16 AM
And you post a reply that is nothing but pure anti-Christian hate.

agree with it or not - when a society follows the OT commandments there is order, safety, and civility.

CaughtintheMiddle1990
01-18-2010, 02:38 AM
So you want me to get in a long debate about rules and statutes that haven't been in effect for thousands of years, why? There are people that adhere to sharia law today, why don't you worry about them son?


agree with it or not - when a society follows the OT commandments there is order, safety, and civility.

Like the Salem Witch trials? I mean, unless you can point to a later time when every article of the OT commandments were followed, and it didn't result in the deaths of innocent people, I don't see how the violence and bloodthirsty commandments of the OT really equate to order, safety and civility. Maybe safety for those of one religion only.

CaughtintheMiddle1990
01-18-2010, 02:40 AM
Policon said it and you directed your comment toward me. The laws that the Israelites obeyed were relivant for their time but not now. As far as disobedient children being put to death, go out at age 16 and kill people and you stand a good chance of being executed in many states today. As to why the deflection people like you constantly attack Christians for things way back in history that are no longer relevant but they seem to give Muslims a free pass most of the time for barbaric practices they have to this day.

I don't recall it stating anywhere in the OT that the laws were relevant only for their time. I don't recall God in the OT saying, "after X and X date, these laws shall expire and no longer be valid for the people of this faith." Christians as I've said have the argument that Jesus was the expiration of those old laws, but again, Jews don't believe in Jesus--or at least don't believe him to be the Messiah they are/were promised.
So in reality it's not an attack on Christians...More an attack on the OT view of ''morality'', which isn't too far from the Koranic view of morality. I don't condone nor support either, and were this a discussion about Koranic and/or Islamic morality, I would be saying the same thing as their laws are in many cases just as violent, if not more so, and in many cases, even more oppressive.

But in any case we have freedom in religion in this land, and I know many a good Jew, many a good Christian and many a good Muslim--Members of all three religions who are some of the most accepting and peaceful people I know.

wilbur
01-18-2010, 08:07 AM
I don't recall it stating anywhere in the OT that the laws were relevant only for their time.

Cultural relativism FTW!